Open 905: Pick Your Power X/Y S/S [game over!]

[May]

I am May. May is famous.

[gob]

Obliveon seems good. Buggy-type towny energy.

I also like Penguin and MAy

[gob]

I feel like Eevee is such an overrated pokemon. I hate it + all the eeveelutions. I do not like anything that is popular because popular = bad because most people = bad.

[davesaz]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then adapting with new information is the entire methodology of the game.

Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.

It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.

Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?

[gob]

I don't like anybody but myself.

[davesaz]

So much spam, from former listmods even
I'm not against fun on principle, but the scrolling to get to real stuff...

[May]

Y'all I need fire offline mobile game recs the book I brought sucks

[May]

So much spam, from former listmods even
I'm not against fun on principle, but the scrolling to get to real stuff...

I like understand your preference for different styles of play and I'll be generous about the choice to be sarcastic about it. I think the former listmods bit is pretty weird though. Don't understand the premise but if there's a sustainable premise in there can't I just be retroactively double fired for play style or whatever lol

[May]

I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.

It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?

Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?

Bc empirically towns lose games where they eschew organic gameplay for mechanical decision tree math whether or not on paper they should

[May]

I'm dredging up forbidden meta.

viewtopic.php?p=13624176#p13624176 (I picked 3 but the image is missing)
viewtopic.php?p=12257848#p12257848 (I picked 3)
viewtopic.php?p=11815209#p11815209 (I picked 1)
viewtopic.php?p=8860204#p8860204 (I picked 1)
viewtopic.php?p=8141009#p8141009 (I picked 2)

I'm town in all 5 of the above games

Ok but what if you had picked 98 this game wouldn't it have been baller

[Jake The Wolfie]

I am May. May is famous.

The May I know dodge rolls off the map. Is this not you?

[May]

also i think that like every single iteration that i've played of this setup or almost all of them there's been at least one person who goes "noooo the draft means nothing ignore it" but then we used the draft to solve the game or made it easier at some point so there's that

It can be simultaneously true that you will gain a material benefit for doing it, but that the benefit won't outweigh the less measurable effects on the day play. It's like skipping small econ micros in StarCraft because if you're not doing an attentive harass on their 2nd base having a 120% output single base game ain't gonna matter

[May]

I don't think I'm that May

[May]

I can see a headache coming in this game from trying to read words that don't fit my language map.

Davesaz just admitted theyre wolfing everyone

NAI for davesaz

[May]

aren't u just gonna work of mechanics anyways davesaz

Well, there is a reason I sign up for this setup the moment it shows up in the queue.

I wish I could have let you draft for me if you enjoy this setup I hate it

[May]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

Town indicative cause an example appeases better

[Oblivion]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then

adapting with new information

is the entire methodology of the game.

Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.

It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and

eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.

Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?

Okay, now can it ask people if this is a remotely fair interpretation of its points? It doesn't feel that it is. It isn't saying to remove people from consideration forever, it literally said that you adapt as more information becomes known.

For your benefit, it has bolded in its own post the two different times it has said this that you seemed to ignore. Creating a world view, interrogating that world view, and then making a choice on how you want to act upon that world view, and then seeing whether you were right or wrong is quite literally the basis of scumhunting, let alone scientific methodology.

It is focusing on all of your posts, but most especially the ones in which you come off as a curmudgeon attempting to shut down lines of reasoning before they evolve. It believes you are possibly trying to dictate and control what ideas are accepted within the town and silence others that may not work for you. By further interrogating you, it can decide whether your actions are a part of the mental model it thinks is acceptable for your townplay or whether these actions are guided by a further motivation that doesn't register as town.

[May]

June is kind of scummy and oblivion is kind of towny

[May]

Oblivion can i call you O-Ring

It's a term of endearment and doesn't mean onion ring

[Oblivion]

I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.

It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?

Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?

Bc empirically towns lose games where they eschew organic gameplay for mechanical decision tree math whether or not on paper they should

Empirically requires evidence you don't have. Furthermore, no one is attempting to eschew "organic" (it has words for the manner in which you have phrased this for your own benefit/bias) gameplay and replace it solely with a decision tree.

If you read any of its posts, it has said multiple times that it is seeking to use the information gleaned in the draft as a weapon to force others to respond and see how their play evolves as a result, while retaining a framework that, yes infact, scum are somewhat readable through the Psychology of Drafting.

Now, as for its concern with your bias. It would thank you not to decide what is and is not "organic" gameplay. Our approach to other players has been wholy in attempt to generate organic reactions and create mental models for our ability to solve them for later. Simply because it does not play how you play does not mean its methods are less effective than yours.

[Oblivion]

Oblivion can i call you O-Ring

It's a term of endearment and doesn't mean onion ring

It assumes this is a reference to the Magic: The Gathering Card "Oblivion Ring"?

It is fine with that, it sees no reason or harm in that nickname.

[Oblivion]

Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?

The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.

Town indicative cause an example appeases better

It doesn't agree with this, for what it is worth. It thinks that this is a pretty basic way to level yourself against a request. Combing through records of games and providing examples of when this gambit has taken place is a value neutral action that won't indicate Dave's alignment in any real way. Actively refusing to do it while sticking to one's guns, however, is a move a player can play to attempt to look dogmatic, and its experience, limited as it is, is that dogmatic players who appear to "truly believe in their own craft" are read as innocent more frequently than not.

In other words, there's no real motivation for town or scum dave to do anything but what he did there, it thinks. It's a neutral outcome.

[May]

I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata

Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant

Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment

[June]

June is kind of scummy and oblivion is kind of towny

Y

[Oblivion]

I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata

Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant

Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment

Your experiences do not qualify as evidence that a methodology is bad, only that it doesn't suit your style. Just as its experiences do not qualify as evidence that Dave's curmudgeoning is explicitly scum, despite it being a familiar feeling to it. It understands that there are cultural differences and playstyle gaps. It has already assuaged two different concerns that it would base itself solely on mechanics, when infact it is clearly doing more than that. But information is information, and if it can use draft info to help corner scum, it's going to do that.