Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I don’t think an executioner meets the flavor.

Probably.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I mean, I have been pretty explicit on the reasons that I think that you are scum.

Spoiler:

(note, I edited the post that used she/her pronouns to use the correct pronouns, all other posts are unedited quotes)

I'm saying that if Ichirin was scum she came out and chose violence.

I have seen this voiced a couple times (it may have been Aya both times, but I *think* it was actually someone else the first time, but I have not looked back).

But like... my interpretation of Ichirin's response was the exact opposite. Hir response did feel like it was designed to appease hir voters, but it just back fired.

Sie immediately went and found a New and Novel thing to be suspicious of, and double and tripled down on it (to a silly degree imo), when the main accusation was that there was no sign of solving from hir, and it felt like sie was avoiding questioning hir voters - like hir goal was just to change our minds.

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that sie started to snap back at one of hir voters.

Plus, since then, it feels like they suddenly had a topic to pursue with all their might when they got pressure, but then they just... stopped pursuing anything as soon as the thread focus moved away from them.

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

And speaking of disingenuous I'm of course going to be skeptical about any reasoning you propose that's related to my reasons/intent for voting you considering you got caught red-handed with a disingenuous Tenshi read.

This also feels like, despite them saying how great Dai's case is, Ichirin does not even really understand why Dai was scum reading Kagerou, because this is not the basis of Dai's case at all.

Reading through it all again, my over all impressions of the 2 are

Ichirin: the entire thing felt really fake, and I still want to kill this slot with fire.

I thank you very much for pointing out the own strange dichotomy in your past and present reasons for voting me. You

had

an actual anchor point for your case before, my initial response to my wagon, but now you just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don’t think an executioner meets the flavor.

Probably.

More of a metaphor. I think Clownpiece is just straight scum.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

The setup doesn't specify numbers so I am actually a little concerned about a third scum, yes.

[Clownpiece]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

Once again: Disproportionate fervor. You sunk your talons into the first bit of exposed flesh you could find and just decided not to let go even to try and find a better spot to stab me in.

[Clownpiece]

in your past and present reasons

Those are not past reasons lol.

They are still a large part of why I am voting you *right now*

You were my best guess at scum, and I was advocating for your elim based on that case -> You made a catch up post that I was unimpressed with -> Your push against Kagerou looked disingenuous in the same performative way I felt about your Eternity Larva questioning before -> I am continuing to call for your elim.

I dont need a new case every time I tell people to vote you lol

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't believe Townpiece makes this level of read over some uncharitable interpretations of my reaction to the wagon.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

The setup doesn't specify numbers so I am actually a little concerned about a third scum, yes.

@Koishi, thoughts?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I just assumed there was 3 scum.
Because two doesn’t sound like much.

Touhou definitely has space for a 3p, but given how alignments are rolled and flavor is rolled, it seems kind of like a strange fit for 2s, one 3p.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

God I cannot wait to be done with this game.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

Am I stupid to use this as a town tell?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Am I stupid to use this as a town tell?

I will take this at face value.
No?
But like most things that aren’t math, it’s not easy to figure out which people are pretending.

[Clownpiece]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

Once again: Disproportionate fervor. You sunk your talons into the first bit of exposed flesh you could find and just decided not to let go even to try and find a better spot to stab me in.

This is genuinely such a silly take

[Koishi Komeiji]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

The setup doesn't specify numbers so I am actually a little concerned about a third scum, yes.

@Koishi, thoughts?

I'm concerned it doesn't match the perception of player experience I otherwise have of the slot. (I.E. I expect this is a thing only to somebody who is playing their first mini theme onsite)

If I were sitting in a mafia pt making up a list of items I think would be easy to fake for town tell cred, this would be on the top tier.

Can it be real? Absolutely.

Am I going to treat it in any way shape or form as a valid town tell? Nope. But it's not particularly damning either.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Actually it could be a third party slip if anything.

But third parties have no reason not to work with us and can likely just claim outright if so, because of the wording of my win condition. (I doubt there is a third party in this game to be clear because of said wording)

[Aya Shameimaru]

VOTE: Daiyousei this is probably just scum tho

and i don't think it's because i'm not vibing with the roleplay (i don't want to discourage the roleplay btw, do what is fun for you! i am just bitter about not knowing the flavor and being left out of the joke )

VOTE: Daiyousei

UwU

VOTE: Daiyousei

Do not like any of these votes.

Oh. I look away for a few minutes and by the time I post again there's 3 people on me.

I refuse to do my reporting in Wall Posts, so let's start here, with this series of posts. Sie has spent most if not all of their time prior to the post calling out votes on Dai posting gems about disliking the Mod's personal colour and arguing over the name to role mechanic. Consider this sie's first real engagement into the game, followed by a response of... this reporter is going to go with Outrage tinged with surprise as the sudden turn onto hir.

Ichirin then proceeds to engage negatively with the pressure, but in a way that doesn't read like scum being flustered, none of this reads like scum being flustered. It does read like a player uncomfortable in the game trying to find a foothold and deciding they have seen a pattern of behaviour that they want to comment on, being punished for making that comment, and reacting accordingly.

I fail to be able to report what the scum behavioural motivation behind taking this line of behaviour was. And I don't even mean the emotional response that comes later, emotions can be harder to control. I mean making the observation about the votes on Dai... and then returning only to comment on the votes on you without offering more substantials. What's the end goal? What's the angle? Where's the motivation behind this? I can see and have offered a townie perspective on this. It reads and fits very well with my understanding of the slot and player. But I just don't get why scum!Ichirin does this? What benefit? What angle? Scum can make mistakes but this reads like the kind of unforced error only townies make, unless you're trying to argue a level of WIFOM into "too scummy to be scum" that is hard to argue is a scum players goal THIS EARLY into day 1.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Koishi, Is your win condition different than the one that the template set up?

Going to do my best to keep this derail short.

If it’s not any different, then there’s no implication that there is direct conflict with our win condition but there is no indication that their role pm wouldn’t have one, or wouldn’t require them to keep their heads down until the wind blows a particular way, I think.

[Aya Shameimaru]

I don't know why we're engaging in third party speculation at this point.

[Aya Shameimaru]

Also, I'll do more of Ichirin's ISO and talk about Ichirin later. I had a moment now but I'm really not in the headspace to engage with this thread. I'm just trying not to wait so long that the clock has ticked to 5 minutes to midnight when I make my arguments.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koishi, Is your win condition different than the one that the template set up?

Going to do my best to keep this derail short.

If it’s not any different, then there’s no implication that there is direct conflict with our win condition but there is no indication that their role pm wouldn’t have one, or wouldn’t require them to keep their heads down until the wind blows a particular way, I think.

Template?

Mine specifies the mafia faction name and states I have to eliminate all of them.

[Yuuka Kazami]

The sample uninformed majority role pm.
First page.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Ah. Identical. I was tangenting though, I don't think we have a third party. Would rather go back to Aya's focus.