Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

Reading more but adhd might kick in. I’ve got yuuka, ichirin, tenshi, Marisa, sanae in my town kinda pile and kagerou/dai in my ew pile.

I think Sanae's reads are fake because Kagerou is my only townread so far

This might be the only read that’s made me smile. Town sticker.

I just don't find many reasons to vote for Koishi, and also feel like they will step up soon (or like, i hope, i'd be able to reconsider if things stay like they are)

175 has also reached straight for my tiny little sensitive heart i'll admit, and i feel like it's a very real thought to have (basically maybe it's not very justified, but it rings true and goes against what Scum!Koishi would be immediatly enclined to do)

No thoughts I want to share about this right now is just like to keep this post in my pocket for a rainy day.

of Clown, Yuuka, and Koishi, i think Koishi looks the worst by a large margin

and deserves more votes for their transgressions

Go a little deeper on this because I think from koichi and ichirins interactions, koichi has a clear mindset behind their posting and it tracks pretty well.

I still buy ichirin can be town. But the flash wagon is perfectly fine and if I was active around the time I probably would have voted there too.

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

They aren’t going to be for the same reasons cuz I’m super selfish and the world revolves around me but.

I thought kagerou putting me in their town core off just my ascetic claim was super weird. Marisa piggybacked on but I get their mindset because I’m also predisposed to town reading lighthearted jokey slots especially early in games. So reads genuine.

Kagerous read felt more like my name was thrown in there for the out of the box factor, because that’s just what townies do.

Dai felt more upset that I was being considered townie for doing nothing and I could see that as more scum frustration. So could I can see multiple worlds there.

I don’t think they are together.

Also I’ll add that I’ve lightened up on the kagerou read solely because of koishi who has shot up to one of my stronger townreads.

I had a pet theory that kagerou was OVERLY familiar with koishi, suggesting they were in a pt together.

I quoted the post but it seemed Fmpov that kagerou had a bead on who koishi was and that would have to come from more correspondence than was in the thread because I don’t think they had much interaction before that point?


But I’m at the point where I feel strongly that koishi is town and I’m just chasing ghosts there.

Not game advancing but I really like the dynamic of Yuuka being fine with murdering everyone and Marisa is the polar opposite. Made me giggle.

I’ll reread sanae, I remember something they posted and just going yup that’s town.

But I don’t even remember what that was or anything else they’ve said.

No one else replace or my hydra dissonance hate is going to max out and there’s only one a yas on these accounts!

VOTE: Kaguya

I usually scumread all ascetic claims but I think with the anon setup I’m pretty pleased with slots claiming it here. Roles may not be alignment indicative but slots being proactive in making night actions more easily navigable by town is appreciated I’m sure.

We also aren’t going to do the condescending language. Just so we are at a mutual understanding.

We also aren’t going to do the condescending language. Just so we are at a mutual understanding.

Yeah I was going to sleep but I didn't want to leave this out there so.


I apologize. My frustrations boiled over and I apologize. The condescending language is recalled, but not my objections.

I thought I had a pretty good winning lotto ticket but then it blew away in the wind.

It’s fine, it’s done. There will be more scum hunting, probably.

Liking Koishi on page 9 and Aya's roleplaying has already pocketed me

I have reason to believe Dai is town

Yeah I was hoping something deeper than the reads you dropped.

But I was more curious why koishi and aya got at least a brief reasoning but dai didnt.

great job Kagerou you're both admitting and not admitting in the same line, you idiot

Proud of you.

If I had a horse, I’d bet it on Marisa being town and that this statement will in no way come back to bite me in any way.

Kagerou is not kaguya…kagerou is not kaguya…

If it’s based on old koishi I get it. The read switches around the rep in are interesting but not in a “scum are playing around it” kind of way.

I am gonna largely pretend that that last Sanae and Aya exchange does not exist, because engaging with it feels icky, but

I'm saying that if Ichirin was scum she came out and chose violence.

I have seen this voiced a couple times (it may have been Aya both times, but I *think* it was actually someone else the first time, but I have not looked back).

But like... my interpretation of Ichirin's response was the exact opposite. Her response did feel like it was designed to appease her voters, but it just back fired.

She immediately went and found a New and Novel thing to be suspicious of, and double and tripled down on it (to a silly degree imo), when the main accusation was that there was no sign of solving from her, and it felt like she was avoiding questioning her voters - like her goal was just to change our minds.

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that she started to snap back at one of her voters.

Anyway, focusing on Ichirin I find myself agreeing with the clown. Koichi might have been on to something and I brushed that half of the conversation aside.

But I didn’t like how little interest ichirin showed in pursuing their voters till yuuka bit in. Eternity being a teammate makes sense to me and brings it all in together. I didn’t really see them calling out eternity as alignment indicative in the moment, just a weird way to look at the game. I see the theater potential though.

Yeah I gave it a little bit of rope for similar reasons Aya but it’s still going to lead me wherever it leads to.

Also yeah I think a break from the conversation would do all of you a little good.

I like the reporter bit, maybe the one off commentary isn’t a good format for the game though.

The news is modernizing.

I was reading along last night but had 0 energy to post so.

@Eternity, the long and short is that I don’t like your interaction with the ichirin scuffle, it came off as intentionally positional, you also have slight partner equity, and I didn’t like your interactions with the previous koichi.

But, new koichi is also playing intentionally positionally. So I can see at least one of you, ichirin, koichi being scum. I’m like 95 percent sure I know who new koichi is and I’m trying to separate the player from the slot but I don’t think that’s going to work for me. So even if I think they are scum there is a slim slim chance they get limmed in the near future.

If they are town I want them on my side, so I’d feel better sorting in you/ichirin first and figuring it out from there.

Also feel like koichi can sniff out who I am off this post but that’s fine I guess.

Nothing popped out to me. I’m sure last night was more impactful for the players that could interact with each other real time though, so that’s nice.

I did see someone make a comment about the game state being slow and scum being content with its direction and that did ring some alarms.

That’s the type of indirect truth statements scum like to pull out for some town credit at some point. I don’t know who said it but side eye.

Going to get back to this. Their day one play is a lot more interesting than I remember.

Oops.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Why did Reisen drop off after day one?
They acknowledge they did.
But no reason given(?).

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Is scum by PoE a thing in melo.
I guess low key I do that but to me the idea of PoE in melo is scary. And it just makes it hard to figure out if you’re afraid of interacting/casing them in case they mess up or they as the remaining town turn against you.

Like metaphor time: you gotta treat it like watching a chess engine sack their queen for a hidden checkmate in 17. It's not a "human" move, in most cases sacking your queen (not sorting Reisen in ELO) is suboptimal, but in this specific case it's more optimal for me specifically because I know I'm town.

It's very specifically a playstyle divergence. You've slaved your vote to Aya so the only thing you can really do is solve, I'm openly deciding to get Aya to vote in a way that maximizes town winrate and as a result this kind of stuff is gonna happen

[Yuuka Kazami]

If Kagerou is the townie then I'm not finding her anyways this game, so I'm not gonna optimize for that world

Why not? You can be wrong, can’t you?
One of the few town points I have for Kagerou town(this one) is that they have not tried to please me.

Another is that they’ve been near aggressively discrediting themselves. You come off as competent. They do not. It’s almost to the point of parody though. So it just gives me a head ache.
I don’t understand why scum them would a. Not read. B. Not talk to their partner first about basic facts of the game before taking action. C. Fake not reading the game. D. Completely lose the plot on basic melo play. They must realize that it is an awful idea to get an unexplained message and act on it in melo right?

Yet they didn’t make an excuse or say it was a reaction test. It’s just so, fucking weird.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Is scum by PoE a thing in melo.
I guess low key I do that but to me the idea of PoE in melo is scary. And it just makes it hard to figure out if you’re afraid of interacting/casing them in case they mess up or they as the remaining town turn against you.

Like metaphor time: you gotta treat it like watching a chess engine sack their queen for a hidden checkmate in 17. It's not a "human" move, in most cases sacking your queen (not sorting Reisen in ELO) is suboptimal, but in this specific case it's more optimal for me specifically because I know I'm town.

It's very specifically a playstyle divergence. You've slaved your vote to Aya so the only thing you can really do is solve, I'm openly deciding to get Aya to vote in a way that maximizes town winrate and as a result this kind of stuff is gonna happen

The only difference to slave voting and not slave voting here is that I haven’t been threatening people not to vote before I do. Nor have I tried to get people to cross vote who I suspect or start getting them on that path.

Aya did that first part first.
I would actually not consider that a play style divergence given I’ve been posting with that reasoning since I think 2 day phases ago. It ties in to the whole “I’m not going to let myself be killed like Sanae did”
Albeit I still don’t think they did. But you know, they could’ve fought harder is I guess was their point.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If Kagerou is the townie then I'm not finding her anyways this game, so I'm not gonna optimize for that world

Why not? You can be wrong, can’t you?

If Kagerou is town that means you're scum, I'm absolutely not gonna be able to reach that world even in 3p

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Another is that they’ve been near aggressively discrediting themselves. You come off as competent. They do not. It’s almost to the point of parody though. So it just gives me a head ache.
I don’t understand why scum them would a. Not read. B. Not talk to their partner first about basic facts of the game before taking action. C. Fake not reading the game. D. Completely lose the plot on basic melo play. They must realize that it is an awful idea to get an unexplained message and act on it in melo right?

Yet they didn’t make an excuse or say it was a reaction test. It’s just so, fucking weird.

It's a fake dumbtell, the feeling of parody is a direct result of that

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Is scum by PoE a thing in melo.
I guess low key I do that but to me the idea of PoE in melo is scary. And it just makes it hard to figure out if you’re afraid of interacting/casing them in case they mess up or they as the remaining town turn against you.

Like metaphor time: you gotta treat it like watching a chess engine sack their queen for a hidden checkmate in 17. It's not a "human" move, in most cases sacking your queen (not sorting Reisen in ELO) is suboptimal, but in this specific case it's more optimal for me specifically because I know I'm town.

It's very specifically a playstyle divergence. You've slaved your vote to Aya so the only thing you can really do is solve, I'm openly deciding to get Aya to vote in a way that maximizes town winrate and as a result this kind of stuff is gonna happen

The only difference to slave voting and not slave voting here is that I haven’t been threatening people not to vote before I do. Nor have I tried to get people to cross vote who I suspect or start getting them on that path.

That's where the divergence is though, if you're willing to force 1v1s like that at the correct time you can strongarm people into a town win

[Kaguya Houraisan]

The only reason I'm not actively forcing the Kagerou 1v1 here is because Aya'd instakill me here, strongarming her into voting Kagerou is the next best thing

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Why did Reisen drop off after day one?
They acknowledge they did.
But no reason given(?).

Work mostly, and then I was behind and out of touch, then work again. Koichi yelling at me kinda helped.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Loading kagerou.exe

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Is scum by PoE a thing in melo.
I guess low key I do that but to me the idea of PoE in melo is scary. And it just makes it hard to figure out if you’re afraid of interacting/casing them in case they mess up or they as the remaining town turn against you.

Like metaphor time: you gotta treat it like watching a chess engine sack their queen for a hidden checkmate in 17. It's not a "human" move, in most cases sacking your queen (not sorting Reisen in ELO) is suboptimal, but in this specific case it's more optimal for me specifically because I know I'm town.

It's very specifically a playstyle divergence. You've slaved your vote to Aya so the only thing you can really do is solve, I'm openly deciding to get Aya to vote in a way that maximizes town winrate and as a result this kind of stuff is gonna happen

I don't like viewing this as a chess match here. There's deduction but we should not act like a chess match in melo/elo without solid information. Everyone should be considered.

I have concerns about that. I have been strategic though when I know something. The 1 v 1 I can take but if you're town, that's gg.

I have concerns about Yukka for what I feel was whiteknighting and just our absolute failure to communicate. I work with strict rules and miscommunication happens.

I have concerns about Riesen mechanically. I also have concerns about defenses of them by others.

I have concerns about Marisa's quadvote and the clear that wasn't. I have mistaken a clear that wasn't.

I may have to fall back on VCA but that might out my identity.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Loading kagerou.exe

Lol coincidence

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out

Besties

Marisa Kirisame - I could go into details but like she's just being obvtown

Eternity Larva - The second obvtown slot

Kaguya Houraisan - A common feeling i have with Kaguya posts is that she's making them for herself and not really for an audience, her overall play has also been decently protown

Reisen Udongein Inaba - maintaining that the Ascetic claim is prolly town, some individual posts like 314 or 313 i really like

Headpats

Ichirin Kumoi - I liked how sie played around the flashwagon, i hear the points about it sounding like TMI / scum anger

Yuuka Kazami - not saying that rude 100% equal good but she certainely feels confident in what she's doing

Koishi Komeiji - acting mildly towny

For later

Sanae Kochiya - Scum leaning but that read is on hold for either substantial agreement / me seeing something more direct to push

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson eyebrow

Aya Shameimaru - struggling to read through the gimmick right now

Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think

Shoot on sight

Clownpiece - I'm starting to really feel dumb for this read but clown piece is playing like how i feel a good scum player would play, will elaborate more but right now i'm not in the mood

Daiyousei - I guess i thought she had more posts than she did but under the gimmick there isn't a lot of info, her recent 349 i don't really know what to make of it so that's a work for future Kagerou

Didn’t mean to quote post before I got all the ones I wanted to hit on.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

That’s not how you multi quote posts apparently.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

i feel the opposite

what makes you think that claim comes from scum?

It's just too on the nose to be a credible miller-type basically? Like,

no one is gonna belive that's an actual real result

, and as such it kinda defeats the purpose to give it to town. Of course i'm getting into modWIFOM territory here but at the very least i disagree that it's clearing her in any way

ofc flavor reasons probably mean the claim is true, but it doesn't indicate it's town

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

Yeah, I had assumed uh, that you were the one person whose role did not match their name.

Mod responded to me and told me they couldn’t tell me if that was the case.

Given that flavor and role seem pretty closely linked it’s not a waste of time to understand/get a footing there, in addition, there’s alignment juice there in how people interact with the information on the topic.

Uh. So what exactly is the mod trying to clarify with their note?

I think we maybe should keep role analysis for later

Let's vote any of
VOTE: Aya Shameimaru
VOTE: Koishi Komeiji
VOTE: Kaguya Houraisan
VOTE: Ichirin Kumoi
VOTE: Daiyousei

There are probably two scum in this pool.

VOTE: Daiyousei

let's see where this goes

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

Can't really put it into words but Ichirin's reaction to the wagon feels extremely towny

Yuuka while maybe i'm reading too much into her natural mindset probably doesn't push a townie like that, this

could

be theater but i'm not thinking about that until a flip

and call me tunneled if you want but it really feels like clown is not pushing Ichirin in good faith

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

- Townie, also indicates they didn’t know about flavor/alignment not being tied together

- rule of three relevant for kaguya/kagerou

- Anti-fishing town indicative

-ehh this isn’t all that interesting I only added it since kaguya was involved in the pool Marisa offered and kagerou went elsewhere.

-dunno why they added themselves. I did like the theorycrafting and it wasn’t like malicious to push an angle, it didn’t really go anywhere.

-with the context of the 1v1 how likely is it scum!kagerou completely 180s on Ichirin? Genuine question I don’t remember if it was omgus, that kinda changes how I view it but I’ll get there at some point ig.

Also the readslist with larva(scum), kaguya(potential partner), myself(potential partner ig) is really bold. Not where I’d look for partner equity in general.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh, that’s funny they might've added themselves and their scum partner in the list and then said there was only one scum in it.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

That’s cheeky I didn’t consider that.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Kagerou what is the obfuscation part of your role again?

[Yuuka Kazami]

First Kagerou seemed to enjoy claiming scum in thread. They did it a few times.

[Yuuka Kazami]

That’s cheeky I didn’t consider that.

/: \: |::::

[Yuuka Kazami]

385 kinda sucks in retrospect.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Why are you looking at Kagerou first Reisen?

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Why are you looking at Kagerou first Reisen?

Cuz I could easily vote kaguya and not feel that bad about it. Also kinda think kagerou is just town. So I guess I’m looking for a reason to townread you via kagerou in a way? If I’m wrong that’s where I’m wrong so that’s where my focus is.