Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 5)

[ActionDan]

Hello!

The following players are town for one reason or another:

RM
Elements
Thomith
Dr nick
Grovyle
Gibdo

Probably DGB.

Leaving Awesomeming, DannF, Black, CCS, Black.

I haven't gotten a great feel for CCS or Awesomeming so I will delve in there for a sharper take over the weekend.

I had been getting scum pings from Dann and have very much thought KayJay was scum the whole game. But I do think Hu could reasonably be scum based off the recent argument Black made for it.

[ActionDan]

UNVOTE:

[ActionDan]

have very much thought KayJay was scum the whole game

I agree with kayjay scum

I'm curious about these reads

KJQ explains most of it best. For 20 pages she had not been proactive in this game the majority of the time, posing no questions and showing very little insight aside from commentary on trivial matters. There are a few exceptions in her Thomith and elements reads. The elements read is based off the effort elements spent to argue against no limming by outlining an extrapolated scenario in the event we follow RM's advice and no lim, an effort that would not benefit a scum elements. That is not a particularly difficult post of elements to make as scum and adding in that it would not serve the purposes of a scum elements is very short-sighted and not worthy of the confidence of the read. The thomith read was originally borrowed from Dann but it is later transformed into one based on gut which is a catchall when there ought to have been a more specific reason available for KJQ.

Instinctively I felt her nick vote was scummy.

Could she have been a townie lost? Yeah sure. But evidence points more to self-aware newbie scum

[ActionDan]

Awesomeming, you have vacillated on your elements read a few times this game: opportunistic for RM vote, to cooking after a Hu one, to scum again for a CCS vote. Can you expand why you thought Elements was cooking? Can you reconcile your support of Dann's town read on Elements with your current one w.e it is right now?

When did you first think KJQ was scum? Was that when you named 3 people gun to head as scum or did you refer to Dr. Nick?

[ActionDan]

CCS why do you find awesomeming scummy exactly? Why did you vote Dannflor?

[ActionDan]

Just so you know I'll be rereading the entirety of you and hu at some point. Probably tomorrow.

[ActionDan]

I do not like 709 from Kay in context of her low motivation. Feels too informed.

Are you sure this is the word choice you wanted? There isn't anything "informed" about 709.

Please answer the other questions I asked in 1054

[ActionDan]

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

Ignore him for the moment and just answer my Qs ty!

[ActionDan]

Ok Rational's arguments have little to no merit to them. But there are certain things I'm trying to check for in your thinking to see if they match your posting and your answers aren't quite giving me what I want. What specifically has Elements done in this game that you would associate with a townie doing, at what specific time did you notice it and why.


Please also flesh out the KJQ scum read, as it stands it doesn't follow from the explanation you gave in 1118

[ActionDan]

I think 950 probably just comes from scum in this situation considering ming has a decently strong townread on Hu. He's either too casual about a town!Hu dying or he feels defeated about scum!Hu's situation and wants to buy her time

There's no Townread on Hu from ming. Black I suggest reading Ming's iso.

[ActionDan]

pretty sure he was referring to Dann there. He can clarify

[ActionDan]

nvm guess not reading it again

[ActionDan]

im ok with flipping awesome as its not the worst poe flip that also resolves the most annoying slot in the game although id rather go hu tao first

The most annoying slot in the game? There is no context in which this statement could be true. What gripe do you have with this slot?

[ActionDan]

Assuming fedora is referencing awesomeming's slot as the annoying one as I'm not sure they linked it to another in 1207.

I disagree with Fedora/nick that awesomeming's recent posts sound town. Their posts since I've entered the game lack clarity and precision and it has felt like drawing blood from a stone. I would have guessed prior that their slot was town as that was the distinct impression I have gotten from the first 30 some odd pages. Currently this is a new player under the microscope with a lot of pressure being applied to them. It is not easy to determine whether they are scum showing cracks under this pressure or town that is bad at defending themself.

[ActionDan]

I would still like to understand why CCS scumreads awesomeming circa 695

[ActionDan]

Hold off on that please

[ActionDan]

I still have things to say before this phase is over.

For the claim itself were this higher power I would advocate for a stay. This close but below the cusp so no need to factor in claim. Clearly no one's needs to cc

[ActionDan]

I'm at work and I have more reading to do

[ActionDan]

Ccs is scum

[ActionDan]

Ideally I'd explain why that is plus continue to review Hu and Dann. But for now it will suffice until tonight

[ActionDan]

Sure is

VOTE: CCS

[ActionDan]

I actually don't see Dann pushing me like this as town, so I'm leaning scum on him now. I could understand a push but a tunnel like this is not like him ever.

Your reads are barely skin deep and I haven’t felt this certain about a scum read in a long while

It’s not like I’m really known to tunnel as scum either so I think you’re just grasping at straws

Ehhh

First real chink in the armor for you Dann

Why was this a chink in the armor at the time?

[ActionDan]

I disagree that Hu is incapable of it. Plus if CCS is scum motivation for the NK is clear enough.

Not interested in anything but a CCS fade

[ActionDan]

But have you considered this is DGB?

[ActionDan]

What is the case on CCS?

I'll make it when I get home

[ActionDan]

@black

They make a lot less sense as scum. Somehow. Not saying it's out of the realm of possibly but I'm not concerned at the moment.

[ActionDan]

I also think her thought on Nick was is coming from a town place

[ActionDan]

RM could have done the scummiest thing imaginable to you Nick, but he didn't kill you, so scum don't need to more any more than they do ATM.

Let's not get ahead of yourself Hu.

[ActionDan]

Black Nick was calling Dann town until then. Arguably the last 4 days were more noteworthy than the previous however many

[ActionDan]

I mean you're not dead and clearly RM has a scumread on you. So... if say he attempted to do something to you with a pointedly scum role (like vanillazer or the like) I'm not holding it against RM.

[ActionDan]

I'm also saying don't out shit

[ActionDan]

@nick if RM is an investigate role encouraging all investigatives to share results, I wouldn't look twice. I do not care if that is the case

[ActionDan]

I understand the hypocrisy. This does not need to be explored further until much later

[ActionDan]

CCS "case":

A swing and a miss on Thomith:


475 is not sufficiently backed up by 609. 225 does nothing to further the claim of "trying to get a vote" on elements. It is on its surface only applying logic to lessen a potential scumread on Thomith by elements. Likewise 630 is neither here nor there in the context of the broader dialogue between Thomith and Elements early game and the question posed is making a comparison between unlike things namely Thomith's treatment of Elements and Elements treatment of RM.


695 is quite bad, even worse now that Awesomeming has flipped scum. First RM's case/read on Awesomeming never had any bite or logic behind it, so "getting behind it" and piggybacking on RM's content already would show a lack of care about the read. If the read was formed independently and didn't hinge on anything RM has said then RM breathing down ming's neck shouldn't come into account regardless.


posts 693 1008 and 1080 taken together do not mesh well if the cynicism for Hu Tao is overridden by Dann's progression on that slot.

Also its been said but calling DGB's reads TMI doesn't follow a logical perspective either.

The only thing that would make me even slightly hesitant is that this slot is so comically linked to Awesomeming's that I'd think scum would be more cautious.

You guys are more than welcome to eat Hu's lunch but flipping this slot has got to be the correct play.

[ActionDan]

I've regarded most of Hu's posts today as sleazy regardless of alignment. And if she is scum I think it probable her reads are bolstered by private info (Nick town, CCS scum). All that's to say, let's fade CCS first.

[ActionDan]

I could have written Garg's first two paragraphs of 1475 verbatim.

[ActionDan]

I prefer voting red scum, not the green kind

[ActionDan]

I am 89% sure that RM is making up 55% of the content he is writing about 90.90909090% of the players he is talking about

[ActionDan]

This has been fun but rational has been town since *checks notes* forever.

BTW gibdo is clearly town please dont touch the mummy.

CCS makes sense as everyone's partner. CCS is scum. Please redirect all your transient attentions in that direction

[ActionDan]

BTW gibdo is clearly town please dont touch the mummy.

And not that I disagree per se, but why is Gibdo clearly town?

VOTE: CCS

He's adorable.

Actually he has big phat townie thoughts that he expresses at a near constant cadence

[ActionDan]

Choose any partner you want for CCS. Who would CCS have night killed instead? Me? You? Regardless of choice Dannflor is coming after him.

[ActionDan]

So i skimmed and main argument CSS is mafia is NK on neighborizer?

I mean just admit you police CSS for lurking why make up something huh

That is certainly not the main argument.

Iso CCS and decide for yourself

[ActionDan]

So i skimmed and main argument CSS is mafia is NK on neighborizer?

I mean just admit you police CSS for lurking why make up something huh

That is certainly not the main argument.

Iso CCS and decide for yourself

I mean i did and main is "Police for lurking"

??? That is incidental. who is arguing that as their main reason for a vote?

[ActionDan]

1439

For the lazy enchant

[ActionDan]

Alright elements get out your shot clock

[ActionDan]

I agree that gargoyle has largely solidified their footing as town

[ActionDan]

1439

For the lazy enchant

[ActionDan]

Anyway don't touch that one DGB, Gibdo off limits

[ActionDan]

There's nothing convenient about it. It clearly happened. Aside from the fact it's rather cold blooded and unnecessary if Gibdo were scum to kill his irl friend that town read him D1 (and also a known powerless role), Gibdo has been town independently, obviously so.

[ActionDan]

There's nothing convenient about it. It clearly happened. Aside from the fact it's rather cold blooded and unnecessary if Gibdo were scum to kill his irl friend that town read him D1 (and also a known powerless role), Gibdo has been town independently, obviously so.

Why wouldn't you make an effort to claim it right away?

I personally would not feel immediately eager nor obligated to share the private views of town that only I had access to at start of day. It's use and application would be under my sole discretion. As such I have no qualms about the timing of Gibdo sharing it with us plus I find what he shared entirely believable and doubt it has been altered

[ActionDan]

I dont think it's fair to give whomever replaces in CCS's unenviable slot. Beyond an unlikely random of piece of info in the unlikely case the slot is town I also don't think we benefit much either.

I'm going to be much less generous with hard town reads and say only I would never fade Enchant and Gibdo, and likely never fade Grovyle.

I maintain decently sizable townreads on Elements, Thomith, Nick (Not beyond looking over them again in future)

And am more ambivalent still on DGB, Black, Hu.

My responsibilities may well end after tonight. I am ready to end day whenever the rest of you are

[ActionDan]

I'll be waiting

[ActionDan]

I suppose a thomith review now is a good time as any. I'll do that as klick progresses through the pages.

[ActionDan]

I mean if Klick couldn't see Gibdo was town that's probably the biggest red flag to me now that he's caught up.

I still would like to look at thomith again anyway. I remember the awkwardness but I had decided none of it was scummy. I've been and will be busy this week. Will attempt some reading in a couple hours

[ActionDan]

Not that it matters but my CCS was not me invested and thinking it's wrong in my heart or something. That is me thinking I've got scum dead to rights.

[ActionDan]

For someone like klick that should be a rather no brainer. Fawning over DGB's reads is dubious as well.

I'd have only reconsidered my read if Klick was immaculately townie but that just is not the case here.

[ActionDan]

I finished my reread of Thomith. I still think he's town. Most of his iso reads town to me.

I am that much more confident Klick is selectively trying to find weaknesses to be exploited. For example I know as town and I have a feeling as scum also Thomith will ask a billion questions. I don't really know what he gets out of every single one of them, but probability dictates some will look pointless and empty like the one to elements about ending the day faster.

The other relevant point is the vote switch from Hu to awesomeming. To add to it Thomith had previously townread awesomeming earlier (not mentioned by klick). I'm OK with it. Thomith had claimed he was lost and following your townreads onto a wagon like that is typical. Especially since Dann's progression was one where he had first voted Hu and then voted awesomeming.

I reject any other arguments. Thomith was not bullying Nick's read e.g. or Thomith was staying out of elemnts/RM slapfight

[ActionDan]

I think 1188 was a good catch at the time by black

[ActionDan]

I am also giving the benefit of the doubt that Black has read understood and abided by the case against CCS/Klick in a timely fashion.

[ActionDan]

Grovyle moves from probably never fade to never fade. So that's 3 enchant gibdo grovyle.

Thoughts remain the same on the rest.

[ActionDan]

Please give Klick the death he has requested.

[ActionDan]

Hu voted CCS at one point.

I'm going to fence sit on Hu until it matters. If Hu is scum, she is deliberately posting anything and everything off the cuff without filter. A lot of what she says when does this, like the above example, are not transparently scummy

[ActionDan]

Do you have a better answer Enchant?

Klick needs to die. He is the highest quality candidate for scum, and if he does flip town that would prompt a major reevaluation at least in my part.

[ActionDan]

Then you know what to do

[ActionDan]

Unless your paladin obsession leads you only wanting to hammer

[ActionDan]

Just hammer

[ActionDan]

I'm rereading elements again and again coming to a town conclusion. I'm not sure I'm the best person to read elements though as foe something like 3 games in a row I've called her town when she was scum. Still think she's town here.


If a random wagon came up I'd have more preferred Dr nick just because 1929 was truly a crap post.

Doesn't matter. Please do the right thing and hammer klick

[ActionDan]

I will look over this tonight. I at the very least still think Gibdo and Grovyle are never scum.

[ActionDan]

I feel somewhat disincentivised to join a Hu wagon.

Thomith, did you ever have an urge to join the klick wagon at any point yesterday. If so, why didn't you?


2030, my memory is clear enough that I distinctly recall the implication that Rational did something to Nick specifically. The entire episode makes 0 sense any way you slice it. If there is some explanation for it, it is certainly not what Nick is claiming, that is, I do not believe for one second Nick's "very logical reason" to get RM to claim was because of perceived hypocrisy alone.

I don't know what the alignment implications of this are, as this is a weird play either way. But Nick is obviously hiding something