Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It's not "way overboard", and there is absolutly nothing "emotional" about my statement that if she outs any more mason partners that we will have to lynch her, and that I will vote for her until she is dead.

Do that, scumbag, and the more dead town masons litter the morgue, the higher the chances that the scum masons will be weeded out.

In other news.

Vino is still scum.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Yos, perhaps I'm making too many assumptions here. Like I said before, this is my first non-newbie game. If one of the masons is a scum, then knowing that people are masons does not make them confirmed townies.

Well, yes, obviously. I'm still wondering why you seem to be assuming that one of the masons is scum, though.

Therefore we have to route the scum before we can establish which of the masons are townie masons. Also we have to know how many scum masons exist in the game, which hopefully is only 1, because >1 would be quite complicated to find.

Which is also an odd part of your post; if there are scum masons, why would you assume there is only 1? Or, how would we find out how many there are, or whatever?

^^^^

Award-winning bus'ing.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are. Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways,

and the scum already know

or will know shortly

who they are

, so town might as well know too.

Remarkable insight into what scum knows.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are.

You just spent a whole post trying to find out who the masons are, speculating, asking people, ect. Now you're going to pretend you don't care?

Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways

Um...what? Do you know something I don't?

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are.

You just spent a whole post trying to find out who the masons are, speculating, asking people, ect. Now you're going to pretend you don't care?

Something is quite scummy about this mason group, so the revelation that it exists means nothing to me.

Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways

Um...what? Do you know something I don't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Obviously only one or two, but it means that about the same ratio of general players to scum exists for mason players to scum

Again, I don't have any information that implies that any of the masons are scum. It certanly is possible, perhaps even likely, but it sounds like you know more then I do. Which is only possible if you are also scum.

so knowing which of the masons are scum is useless until the scum is routed and we can confirm townie masons.

Ummm...what? That dosn't make any sense at all to me. What are you talking about? How can we "confirm townie masosn", and why are you talking like you know for a fact that some masons are scum?

A whole fleet of Greyhounds heads out of the garage.

[Yosarian2]

Huh? So, you go from thinking I'm town to thinking I'm scum, because I'm really annoyed one of my mason partners outed me as a mason, in a situation where it's pretty obvious there was absolutly no good reason to do so?

Given that the scum concentration in the mason group may be higher than the general population, outing masons might be a very effective way to hunt scum.

Do you really think that's likely?

If there are scum masons, then it probably dosn't matter, like I said. If there aren't, then the scum need to find out who the masons are in order to win.

I suspect we'll have a better idea tommorow, based on what happens tonight, now that several masons have been outed.

[Vino]

Yos, perhaps I'm making too many assumptions here. Like I said before, this is my first non-newbie game. If one of the masons is a scum, then knowing that people are masons does not make them confirmed townies.

Well, yes, obviously. I'm still wondering why you seem to be assuming that one of the masons is scum, though.

One of the masons said it was a large group, so he was guessing that at least one of them must be scum. (Lowell? When he claimed? Can't be bothered to dig up the post.) Naturally all of this logic is reliant upon that, and since he is the resident expert I am taking it as the most likely scenario. Since he found it suitable to reveal his masonry, he must be relatively positive that there is a scum in their midst, so I find it reasonable to assume that he is correct.

Which is also an odd part of your post; if there are scum masons, why would you assume there is only 1? Or, how would we find out how many there are, or whatever?

I am not assuming such. I don't know where you got that idea. I specifically stated earlier that there may be many. If there is one it is much easier to purge them. If there is many I think town may as well ignore the fact that there are masons. The problem, as you say, is not finding the scum masons, but establishing how many scum masons exist.

Serengeti, you

did not address my questions.

I want to know:

* Why did you vote Honcho for no given reason?
* Why did you defend GnKoichi for no given reason?
* Why did you feel it necessary to out Yos as a mason? You could have pushed a lynch on Yos without claiming mason and outing him.

These are all scummy things and I want them accounted for. And let me add to it:

* Why are you pushing mason lynches?

Answer these questions or invoke a vote from me.

[Yosarian2]

It's not "way overboard", and there is absolutly nothing "emotional" about my statement that if she outs any more mason partners that we will have to lynch her, and that I will vote for her until she is dead.

Do that, scumbag, and the more dead town masons litter the morgue, the higher the chances that the scum masons will be weeded out.

Oh, great, dripping goofball is about to do her famous "Yos is scum tunnelvision" thing again. Sigh.

Did you actually read what I wrote there, or do you just look at everyone one of my posts and think it says

I am scum I am scum I am scum

?

Because I think that, if you read what I actually said, it should be pretty obvious that I'm not actually trying to lynch you here, I'm just trying to stop you from hurting the town any more then you already have.

[Yosarian2]

One of the masons said it was a large group, so he was guessing that at least one of them must be scum. (Lowell? When he claimed? Can't be bothered to dig up the post.) Naturally all of this logic is reliant upon that, and since he is the resident expert I am taking it as the most likely scenario. Since he found it suitable to reveal his masonry, he must be relatively positive that there is a scum in their midst, so I find it reasonable to assume that he is correct.

Um...Lowell is the resident expert? Of what?

There is a difference between other people's posts, that have said that there's a pretty good chance there is a scum, and your posts, which seemed to imply you already knew there was a scum mason.

Which is also an odd part of your post; if there are scum masons, why would you assume there is only 1? Or, how would we find out how many there are, or whatever?

I am not assuming such. I don't know where you got that idea. I specifically stated earlier that there may be many. If there is one it is much easier to purge them. If there is many I think town may as well ignore the fact that there are masons. The problem, as you say, is not finding the scum masons, but establishing how many scum masons exist.

Then what were you talking about when you started talking about confirming people as townie masons?

[roflcopter]

oh jesus

unvote, vote: vino

[Vino]

Um...Lowell is the resident expert? Of what?

There is a difference between other people's posts, that have said that there's a pretty good chance there is a scum, and your posts, which seemed to imply you already knew there was a scum mason.

No. I am just taking the idea that there is one or more scum masons to its logical conclusion. I am a fan of the idea that there are no scum masons, but it just doesn't seem likely.

And well... maybe not resident expert, but what I meat was he certainly knows more about masons than I do.

Then what were you talking about when you started talking about confirming people as townie masons?

a) There is a high likelihood of scum masons.
b) Until we know which mason is scum, we can't confirm masons as townies.
c) Until we know how many scum masons exist, we can't know whether we've cleared out all scum masons.

Until these conditions are satisfied we can not confirm masons as townies.

I have a common problem playing mafia games were as a townie I make logical conclusions using publicly available knowledge, and present my findings to the town, who accuse me of being scum because I have apparently confidential knowledge. This is what is happening now. If you follow my logic, however, you will see that nothing I am saying can not be extrapolated from publicly available information. I'm sorry for not making myself more clear.

[Vino]

*meant

[Yosarian2]

a) There is a high likelihood of scum masons.
b) Until we know which mason is scum, we can't confirm masons as townies.
c) Until we know how many scum masons exist, we can't know whether we've cleared out all scum masons.

Until these conditions are satisfied we can not confirm masons as townies.

The point I was making was that there is absolutly no way we could ever figure out C, so there will never be a point where we can "clear" people of being scum.

I have a common problem playing mafia games were as a townie I make logical conclusions using publicly available knowledge, and present my findings to the town, who accuse me of being scum because I have apparently confidential knowledge. This is what is happening now. If you follow my logic, however, you will see that nothing I am saying can not be extrapolated from publicly available information. I'm sorry for not making myself more clear.

1. There is a difference between "Well, if X, then Y" and saying:

Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways, and the scum already know or will know shortly who they are, so town might as well know too

That statement (especally the "half of them are scum" part, which seems to be based on absolutly nothing) seems to imply you have knowlege that no pro-town people have. One of the best ways to catch scum is that they know things town can't know.

You later claimed that that was "sarcasm", but it pretty clearly wasn't.

2. You were trying way too damn hard to find out who the masons were, RIGHT AFTER I expressed that I thought it'd be best for them to NOT be known

So the masons are Lowell, Serengeti, Yosarian2, ________ and GnKoichi? Is this the reason you voted Honcho for vague reasons? The fifth is roflcopter perhaps, for his earlier vindications of you two? Hmmmmm?

And then you denied doing it when I called you on it.

I actually don't care who the masons are.

Which is clearly a lie, based on your previous post.

Look...we don't know if there are scum masons or not. If there aren't any scum masons, then the scum need to find out who the masons are, so your fishing there is scummy. Even if there are, then that dosn't mean that all scum factions (like a SK, for example) will know who the masons are; and with a mason group this large, revealing the names of all the masons also makes it a lot easier for someone like a SK to find the real power roles, just by process of elimination. That's why I had to make DGB stop revealing stuff, and that's why your fishing is super-scummy.

vote:Veno

[Yosarian2]

Also, rotf, it'd help me figure out where you are coming from if, to figure out if your attack on me was honest scumhunting or something else, if you would read and respond to my post in 262 where I responded to your attack. Thanks.

[Vino]

Fine. All of this is beside the point. My purpose in #261 was to ask Serengeti questions, not to extrapolate on masonry. The purpose of pointing out mason connections was to demonstrate my point: she was acting sketchy. Why was she defending GnKoichi and attacking Honcho? Saying "half of the masons" was a euphemism - I was exaggerating for the purpose of sarcasm. Believe what you like, but if you want to vote me, please spell my nick properly.

[Yosarian2]

Fine. All of this is beside the point. My purpose in #261 was to ask Serengeti questions, not to extrapolate on masonry.

It was to ask her questions, primarally questions about who her mason buddies were.

The purpose of pointing out mason connections was to demonstrate my point: she was acting sketchy. Why was she defending GnKoichi and attacking Honcho?

Probably because she thought one was looking pro-town and the other was looking scummy? As you yourself have pointed out, masonry is probably irrelvent in that.

Saying "half of the masons" was a euphemism - I was exaggerating for the purpose of sarcasm. Believe what you like, but if you want to vote me, please spell my nick properly.

Ok. I forgot to unvote your scumbuddy Litral anyway.

Unvote

Vote:Vino

[Vino]

Thanks.

[Numberfourteen]

Wow... alot has happened since I last checked, this is hard to take all in. Seeing as how we have no clue, not even a good guess as to th number of scum in the mason group, is there really any need to know who the masons are? I do not see any reason for this to happen. The way I see it, Lowell claims mason, and several people read it as a pretty strong town tell. Penguins sees this, and try to pull the same move, and also try's to throw the blame onto Yos. It seems like a great move if you are a scum mason. Outing the masons is only a good idea if you know how many are scum masons if any... other than that why out someone like that.

And as for Yos reaction, I do not see that as a bad tell, I would be real angry also if someone outed me like that. Really, this whole thing just makes my head hurt. I do not think that we should be lynching people based on whether they are masons or not, because we have no clue how many scum are in that group.

[roflcopter]

sorry yos forgot to respond to this because i was overwhelmed by the obvscummery of vino

I didn't know he was a mason buddy. She didn't know that, though, so I don't blame her for that. I do blame her for outing me as a mason for no good reason, even though my vote didn't put Lowell at any risk at all.

you're just reiterating what i already mentioned was a shitty excuse here.

It's not "way overboard", and there is absolutly nothing "emotional" about my statement that if she outs any more mason partners that we will have to lynch her, and that I will vote for her until she is dead. At the point I made the post, my #1 priority was to stop her insanity before she outed the rest of the mason group for absolutly no bloody reason, and to make it absoltuly, 100% crystal clear that that will absoluty not be tolerated. I'm sorry if you think it was a little over the top, but I think it was necessary I made myself absolutly clear here before she did any more damage.

it is though, because its like you're trying to project enough anger through your post to vote penguins without having to worry about repercussions because "look how freaking anti town she was guys srsly!"

It's not like I can make her un-reveal what she already reveals, and I don't get how you think it makes me scummy that I don't want her to reveal the REST of our mason group.

And, considering that I threatened her, not to protect myself, but to protect the rest of my mason group from her insanity, this last comment of yours makes no sense at all:

my opinion: yos is either scum mason or anti-town 3rd party mason, and he's very, very upset that his cushy position suddenly got shot to hell over what he percieves to have been poor play on the part of lowell and penguins.

Especally since you just admitted that I would be very, very upset about her outing both herself and me as masons no matter what else was happening. There's clearly no pro-town reason for her to do so, and that makes me uncomfortable with how both she and Lowell apparently wanted to get themselves confirmed as masons early on day 1; that makes me wonder abuout both of them.

this part really slays me. you're appealing to emotion/the rest of your mason group to take your side against penguins because "seriously guys i'm just trying to protect you!" you seem to think its cut and dry that there could be no protown reason to out masons at this stage, but i disagree with you and agree with penguins, and she laid out in a pretty starkly mathematical manner how it was a good idea on her part.

[Yosarian2]

sorry yos forgot to respond to this because i was overwhelmed by the obvscummery of vino

I didn't know he was a mason buddy. She didn't know that, though, so I don't blame her for that. I do blame her for outing me as a mason for no good reason, even though my vote didn't put Lowell at any risk at all.

you're just reiterating what i already mentioned was a shitty excuse here.

You're not reading what I said.

I'm not using that as a defense for my lowell vote; I don't really think my lowell vote needs a defense, in any case. I wasjust questioning why she felt the need to claim mason in response to that, considering how little risk there was in my lowell vote anyway. I found it especally odd since she had already figured out by this point that I had misread my role PM when I first got it.

It's not "way overboard", and there is absolutly nothing "emotional" about my statement that if she outs any more mason partners that we will have to lynch her, and that I will vote for her until she is dead. At the point I made the post, my #1 priority was to stop her insanity before she outed the rest of the mason group for absolutly no bloody reason, and to make it absoltuly, 100% crystal clear that that will absoluty not be tolerated. I'm sorry if you think it was a little over the top, but I think it was necessary I made myself absolutly clear here before she did any more damage.

it is though, because its like you're trying to project enough anger through your post to vote penguins without having to worry about repercussions because "look how freaking anti town she was guys srsly!"

(shakes head) Again, you're not reading what I said.

I didn't vote penguins, and wasn't planning on doing so. I projected enough anger so she would know I was serious, which I was, and that if she continued to do what she was doing and out more people's roles, that there would be consequences. My only goal there was to put out the fire and prevent any more damage, not to start to put together a case on Penguins. Frankly, now, I tend to think she's probably town, assuming she is a Dripping Goofball alt which I think she is. Dripping Goofball has a long habit of fixating on me like this and deciding I was scum for some weak reason and then obsessivly repeating it over and over again no matter what I said, and every time she's done that in the past we've both been town.

It's not like I can make her un-reveal what she already reveals, and I don't get how you think it makes me scummy that I don't want her to reveal the REST of our mason group.

And, considering that I threatened her, not to protect myself, but to protect the rest of my mason group from her insanity, this last comment of yours makes no sense at all:

my opinion: yos is either scum mason or anti-town 3rd party mason, and he's very, very upset that his cushy position suddenly got shot to hell over what he percieves to have been poor play on the part of lowell and penguins.

Especally since you just admitted that I would be very, very upset about her outing both herself and me as masons no matter what else was happening. There's clearly no pro-town reason for her to do so, and that makes me uncomfortable with how both she and Lowell apparently wanted to get themselves confirmed as masons early on day 1; that makes me wonder abuout both of them.

this part really slays me. you're appealing to emotion/the rest of your mason group to take your side against penguins because "seriously guys i'm just trying to protect you!" you seem to think its cut and dry that there could be no protown reason to out masons at this stage, but i disagree with you and agree with penguins, and she laid out in a pretty starkly mathematical manner how it was a good idea on her part.

Um...appealing to emotion? Do you really doubt that I was just trying to prevent Penguins from outing more masons at that point, or do you think that I had some anti-town motive for doing that? What possible anti-town motive could I have for that?

If you really think there's something to be gained by outing a bunch of masons right now, then come right out and argue that point, and we'll discuss it. I think the costs outweigh the benifits, I think that's pretty obvious, and I will be extremly angry if Penguins, or any other masons, suddenly come out and claim/claim for each other like she just did, but there's a huge difference between "arguing that claims are a good idea, and going ahead if there's agreement" and "just starting to reveal people's roles for no reason on your own".

I mean, if someone says "Let's mass claim; I'll start, I'm a rolecop, and IS is the doc"; the absolutly first thing you do is to yell at him, and make absolutly sure that he stopps talking and that everyone else knows that a massclaim is a BAD idea and that it HAS to stop NOW. AFTER you've done that, after you've put the fire out, THEN you worry about if the person doing the claiming was scum or not, and THEN you can have a dicussion about if a massclaim is a good idea or not, but before any of that the first thing you absolutly have to do is to prevent any more claims, and that's all I did. Don't you understand that?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

'Serengeti, you

did not address my questions.

I want to know:

* Why did you vote Honcho for no given reason?
* Why did you defend GnKoichi for no given reason?
* Why did you feel it necessary to out Yos as a mason? You could have pushed a lynch on Yos without claiming mason and outing him.

These are all scummy things and I want them accounted for. And let me add to it:

* Why are you pushing mason lynches?

Answer these questions or invoke a vote from me.

AHahahaha. Seriously. Read more carefully. Facepalm yourself. Relax and enjoy your lynch.

[alvinz95]

Scum want as much people to claim as possible even masons so they have a better chance to target a power role.

Seems Vino slipped some info about what he knows.

Unvote, Vote: Vino

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Scumlist:

Vino
Yosarian2
numberfourteen for post 292

unvote, vote: Vino

[GnKoichi]

Man, I don't even know what to say about this whole Mason thing. Both sides have made good points, and both sides have made unfair accusations. I have a couple theories on who might be the scum in this debacle pulling the town's strings, but not enough to worth mentioning yet.

All in all, I'm going to stay focused and leave my vote on the best scum candidate, and I would urge most people to consider the mason discussion nothing more than a distraction and try to focus on scumhunting instead.

[Vino]

Serengeti, Honcho made what I thought was a valid point about GnKoichi as it reflected what I was thinking at the time. Your response was:

For density of mind, and until he sees the light:

unvote, vote: HeadHoncho

This tells me that you think Honcho does not know something that you do, and therefore is acting "dense." You had said just previously:

I can vouch for Koichi's relative trustworthiness.

Unless I'm missing something this tells me that you are either scum partners or mason partners with GnKoichi. Until I have reason to believe otherwise I will assume scum. You then proceeded to out a fellow mason with no proof that he is scum, and promoting the lynching of masons does not impress me either, having masons would be useful to town if we ever are able to establish who the mason scum are, assuming they do not get NK'd.

Vote: Penguins of the Serengeti