BlakAdder 26 wrote:Logical fallicies ftl
Korts 36 wrote:Stupid question. If the weak doc/hider happens to target mafia and they die, we'll know who they targeted.
I don't think it's a stupid question; I think it's a valid one. Why are you trying to create bad vibes so early?
ryan 44 wrote:I dont have a preference either way right now, as this hypo thing is new to me. Ill go with whatever everyone else thinks is optimal.
Yeah, I'm with you bro. Sounds pretty confusing if you ask me. I'm reading GIEFF, pops, and Korts' posts and just nodding my head in agreement.
Basically what I take from this hypo argument is simple, everyone hypo-hiders a different person and we change each day. This has already been said of course, but this makes sense to me as it has the potential of showing us a bonafide scum. Basically the same thing goes for the hypo-doc, but the problem I see with the hypo-doc strategy is
what if the doc saves correctly
? Then the mafia will know who the doc is and we won't. I think y'all solved this by saying the hypo-doc claims will only be split on two people, right? That makes perfect sense too.
roflcopter 90 wrote:
i kind of wish i´d waited a little bit longer to suggest the hypo claim strategy. as much as its going to be awesome for us, the ensuing discussion of the best way to do it makes my eyes glaze over.
Yeah, no joke. This really ain't doing much for me. It's hard to read over all of this debate over hypo-policies.
GIEFF 103 wrote:
I'm a little surprised that nobody else wants to spend the effort to get the best hypo-claiming system possible. I don't know if that's scumminess or just laziness, but because it seems to apply to just about everyone in the game, I'll assume it's the latter.
I don't know, maybe because it doesn't excite some of us the same way it excites ya'll. I know I'm having trouble paying attention because it all seems so theoretical. Maybe once it actually happens it will make it a little more interesting.
Korts 104 wrote:The ryan-wagon is obviously scum-ridden at this point.
Best observation of the game thus far IMO.
EsoMonty 132 wrote:Ryan is all I got.
Vote: ryan2574
...and? Care to indulge us? People were beating their own mothers off with a stick for a chance to jump on the ryan-wagon because of his vote, and you do... the same thing? I suspect you're voting Ryan for voting without reason? Care to explain how "Ryan is all I got" is such a better one?
FoS: EsoMonty
Korts 139 wrote:I think hypoclaims should be done right before lynching and not at this point, which pops seems to be pushing for.
Does it make a difference so long as they are chronicled? The Hider especially since I think the everyone should have at least one hypo-hider behind them.
GIEFF 140 wrote:[BadGuy] "piggybacked" onto ryan in a very similar manner to the way ryan piggybacked onto Gamma; the second vote, with little logic presented. Are you still happy with your vote of ryan?
This spat between GIEFF and Bad Guy seems ridiculous and almost like GIEFF is trying to drive the discussion away from ryan's vote.
Korts 154 wrote:(for simplicity's sake I'm not going to start arguing that OMGUS doesn't even exist in practice)
Is that what you think?
GIEFF 162 wrote:Your behavior doesn't make sense to me, Gamma. First you complain that there is no scumhunting going on, yet contribute almost nothing. When you finally start posting (only after being accused of lurking and accruing some votes), you make one scumhunt post, and then follow it up with inane meaningless posts that only serve to distract and confuse the town.
Right now I'm liking GIEFF, pops, and Korts. I think they've all kept this town chugging along in spite of lurking (i.e. BlakAdder, ryan, Eso) and outright strange behavior (i.e. Gamma).
I don't understand why Gamma isn't
doing
anything. It's one thing to say "Hey, let's talk about who the scum is please!!" because I empathize with that. But then to start little question games and give very broad commentary about OMGUS and logic... doesn't serve his own purpose well at all.
Gamma, this is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Someone may die tonight, don't you care about that at all?
Gamma 166 wrote:Am I supposed to be scared?
Can we say, straw that broke the camel's back?
Why do you seem so unconcerned with the town's success in this game?
People have asked you time and again to start scumhunting, but every post you make is a queer departure from that.
GIEFF 167 wrote:I don't think anybody accused [Eso] of fence-sitting. Why do you feel the need to vote if you "don't have a good idea" of where to do so? Why did you feel the need to unvote if you were just going to vote for the same person again later? Worrying more about how your vote is perceived than about actually voting for scum is quite scummy.
Again, this shows GIEFF is taking charge and doing well. I was wondering when someone would bring up that Eso is teetering on the line between lurky-town (a bad thing) and fakey-town (a worse thing).
pops 170 wrote: I think maybe GIEFF's posting maybe makes it hard to read, but for some reason this thread is hard, and stuff keeps going in one ear and out the other.
It ain't on account of GIEFF.
Gamma 176 wrote:So.
6 players want my ass lynched.
Keep in mind we have all agreed to hypoclaim before we lynch.
So. Instead of looking for the "real scum".
I'm just going to concede my death.
-.-
Korts 191 wrote:Ugh. Did you just call Gamma a townie?
Huh?
He specifically said that it was "NOT" one of those cases.
Korts, I've noticed you misinterpret things a lot, and I'm starting to get concerned with it. I don't know, you just seem so eager to move your vote... almost like you are going to except someone to accidently admit to being scum one day.
magisterrain 202 wrote:gieff just struck me as being TOO town.
Isn't there a wiki page for this? The "too-towny" fallacy or something like that?
Magisterrain 202 wrote:also, i didnt like [GIEFF's] nitpicking with badguy.
I agree with this, but I've come to the conclusion he was more interested in scoping reactions than actually suspecting Badguy.
Korts 208 wrote:Why talk about Gamma in the third person?
Just wanted to make note here that Korts seems particularly critical of pops over what I see as nothing while magi just dropped a bomb in the middle of the game (Gamma is town, Netlava/GIEFF might be scum).
roflcopter 217 wrote:i suddenly remember why ryan was a good lynch
*groans*
Gamma 219 wrote:Also, it seems to me like popsofctown is chasing around whoever's the sexy pick around here
*blows a trumpet*
Ladies and gents! Gamma's first accusation!
*deafening applause fills the room*
EsoMonty 224 wrote:I feel secure in my voting of Ryan at the moment and will be keeping my vote there.
And, you know, if it's not too much trouble... would you care to show us why? You haven't done that yet.
ryan 228 wrote:
An explanation would be nice...Trying to start the wagon again?
EIther way, ROFL's willingness to just throw a lynch around and try to start a bandwagon is interesting, as is Gamma's continued play.
How does being under suspicion warrant an inability to scum hunt? I do understand that there is a high level posting that you will make to defend yourself, but you can still look for the bad guys.
I see everything said here as townie. There, I said it. At first I was a little leary of ryan, but now I feel as though he's starting to get serious.
rofl's secretive voting practices have been written off as "lol that's our rofl!!"
ryan has every right to ask rofl why ryan is a worse offender than Gamma, BSG, Badguy, magi... etc. I don't blame him one bit for being upset.
ryan continues to force Gamma into the spotlight, something the ryan-attackers are only mentioning in passing now (because "lol that's our Gamma!!").
ryan is a horrible alternative to Gamma. Period.
EsoMonty 231 wrote:I think he has done some questionable things and have posted as such.
I implore you to point out where you have "posted as such". I've seen you vote him, but I've never seen you point out ryan's "questionable things". I've seen others do it, am I to assume they speak for you entirely?
EsoMonty 231 wrote:And at this point, I don't feel the need to justify myself further on this regard.
You haven't justified it at all, Eso!
EsoMonty 235 wrote:Let me rephrase, Poster A posted that someone might be Mafia. Poster B posted that Poster A might be mafia for not backing that up with a vote, and then proceeded not to back his up with a vote. I caught him in his mistake but figured that it might actually be a good tell to use.
Goodness gracious. Now it's like Eso is twisting the knife he stuck in my back. He takes the time to give a detailed explaination of how a vote is being reasoned in some other game, but he still hasn't given us reasons for his vote here.
pops 243 wrote:Last thing, picking a hypoclaim target. I came up with a good idea for a verifiable random selection. We use the post count of some mafia player at some point in time. Just some prominent person from mafia discussion maybe. Mr. Flay, or Farside22, Adel, Thok, Glork... one of those. Pick a far enough away time, anyone from this game is welcome to check at that moment to see the post count. TotalPostCount%12. Good?
No. Why is everyone making this so convoluted and complex? Just everyone needs to pick a different hypo-hide, and you basically decide upon two of the most townie players (GIEFF and pops, IMO), for everyone's hypo-doc to go to. It's simple. This is why I have so much trouble reading through the beginning part of this game. People are making something simple into some horribly complicated.
Gamma 256 wrote:was busy defending
And you can't do two things at once, right?
Netlava 259 wrote:If I'm hider, I hide behind Gamma.
I thought Gamma was the lynch target?
I don't think anyone knows what the heck they're doing!
EsoMonty 268 wrote:Ryan has not answered but hasn't been given enough time to do so.
Let me put it to you this way Eso, can you show me the questions you asked of ryan before you voted him? Can you quote for me what ryan is supposed to answer for you specifically?
EsoMonty 294 wrote:If I am the Hider: I will hypo hide: Ryan
Why are you people hiding behind the person you are voting? Am I the only person who sees this as counter-productive, weak, and asinine?
This just screams "I'm not the hider, mafia".
roflcopter 303 wrote:everything to me is pointing to ryan being the right lynch here
Everything to me is pointing to the ryan-attackers getting restless and wanting to force this bad lynch through before the replacements get a chance to realize what is going on.
roflcopter 305 wrote:and i still think gamma is a vi and not scum
(completely off-topic but can you link me to this, because I absolutely fell in love with Vi after our newbie 685 game and I want to see this!)
ryan 307 wrote:EsoMonty - No real read on him. Posts don't seem fishy.
Don't break my heart ryan, this should be your number 1 target.
I can't blame you though, it must seem like a whirlwind of with all the people putting such crap on you.
camn 308 wrote:MY RUNDOWN
Another ryan-attacker
You don't seem to break any new ground in your rundown, smear ryan and throw some lurking accusations against BSG. Everyone else seems town (but, hey, at least you faired better than the other two replacements).
EsoMonty 318 wrote:People with no one hypo hiding behind them:
popsofctown
GIEFF
Xtoxm
Empking
The first townie post of the game from Eso IMO.
This earns you a couple of points, but you still have a ways to go.
camn 329 wrote:I don't know why you tagged that on.
And while we are at it, can you (that is, Ryan) explain why we wouldn't want to duplicate Hider claims, but we don't care about Doc claims?
This is good, but I think ryan is the wrong person to do it to.
And I think you know why he said "nice try", you just want to get him to say it to make him look worse.
pops 339 wrote:
hm... i could go and make a correct list.... or bank that gieff is our list and organization superstar and hope he does it...oh look, the bells about to ring!!
XD
I am in favor of giving GIEFF full control over votes, hypos, and generally all discussion!!
Seriously though, Eso has earned some points back from me for attempt to get the hypos in order, even if he was mistaken. I don't see this as a delibrate mistake.
roflcopter 342 wrote:gamma --- what? how is ryan redeeming himself?
Hmmm, I don't know... maybe by
being generally helpful to the replacements, paying attention to the hypo discussion, and answering questions posed to him
?
What have you done lately to help this town other than push ryan as hard as you can?
EsoMonty 344 wrote:I am changing my vote to Gamma. Not because I think ryan is not still looking scummy, but that Gamma keeps looking worse and worse.
Dammit Eso! I spent all this time getting ready to roll out big crap against you and you keep saying more townie things to undercut me.
ryan 353 wrote:Nice try because I don't really see the need to play your game that you are trying to play with me. You already know the situation better than I, considering your previous experience, so prodding such information from someone like me doesn't seem to be pointless and a waste of my time, to be honest.
Why do you keep asking me? Read post 44. I really have no desire to go back and reread that portion of the thread to appease you.
Wam, bam, thank you ma'am!
ryan continues to show how he's an asset to this town by taking bold, assertive stances in his posts using logic and sense.
GIEFF 354 wrote:we need to pick up the pace on the hypoclaiming (BSG and Gamma are all that's left, and I think Gamma should go first as BSG appears to be MIA)
Wasn't Gamma the very first hypoclaim?
camn 360 wrote:[Ryan] came off like it was everyone ELSE's job to make this game interesting to [RYAN].
*cough*weak*cough*
Empking 364 wrote:Would you mind giving reasons?
What, someone asking rofl for reasons? What kind of heresy is this?! No, no. It's just accepted that rofl is very town and ryan is very scum around this clinic, Emp.
camn 366 wrote:If it is so 'well-documented' then why can't Ryan explain it?
Your thoughts?
Because why should he when it's so obvious you're gunning for a smear on ryan and no one else?
He answered your original question and said, in so many words, "ok I see what you did there, nice try".
And you just kept pushing him.
Are you interested in asking Gamma, or anyone else, any questions at all, camn?
camn 366 wrote:PS.. I just haven't gotten to Gamma yet, EsoMonty. Or you. I suspect everyone.
Oh. Well, I'd suggest to you that you shake a leg hon. The deadline is approaching and it seems to me more like you're looking for a reason to justify a ryan vote than you are looking for scum in this bunch.
---
If you read all that, kudos to you; If you didn't, I don't blame you. Those were my notes
as I progressed through the thread
(read: I didn't read post 300 before I read post 100).
Hypo-protect: GIEFF
Hypo-hide: Xtoxm
tl;dr: I was ready to say Eso was my sure-scum, but I am no longer prepared to make that statement.
My scummy list is Gamma, roflcopter, and camn.
My neutral list is Krotos, EsoMonty, Netlava, Xtoxm, and Empking.
My town list is pops, GIEFF, and
ryan
.
These are in no particular order.
GIEFF - Most townie, most helpful. Obviously concerned with the town's success. He's been critical of everyone so far as I can tell, although I think it's unfortunate he let his suspicions of Eso fall to the wayside. I also wish he would be more pressuring of roflcopter.
popsofctown - Has been locked on Gamma longer than anyone (which isn't a bad thing to me), and has worked sincerely hard at getting the hypo-thing going. I think he's made this game more complicated than it has to be, but since we've ultimately wound up with a good system, I contribute most of that to him.
ryan2754 - Poor ryan, the unfair target of a town desparate to find an alternative to Gamma. I think he feels castigated and overwhelmed. Every explanation I've read from him seems to be sincerely trying to regain his status, but many of the players have just continued to pile on. Despirited, he's grown more frustrated and posts less. ...but how can one man stop a wagon with so many when no one is there beside him? I will be that man. Ryan gives off as townie of a read to me as pops does.
roflcopter - Kind of quirky but seemingly town-interested... as the deadline approached he's grown more suspicious. A ryan-attacker, went from a weak one to a leader. At first I thought he was just looking at the wrong things, now I think he's actively trying to get a bad lynch to go through for bad reasons.
Netlava - Rubs me the wrong way, mostly because of his attacks against ryan. He's went from a leader in the ryan-attacker movement to a weaker party because of his recent turn to lurkiness. Potentially being mislead, will continue to keep my eye on him. In addition, what the heck is going on with Netlava hiding behind Gamma? FoS anyone who is hiding behind Gamma.
Korts - Townish. I love how he's not afraid to call out those that have jumped on ryan, but I hate how he hasn't followed through with it. I also don't like how he keeps subtlely going after pops for peculiar reasons. It's like he wants to vote Gamma, but he gets upset when pops is voting Gamma too.
Gamma - Blantantly unhelpful. Actively trying to throw the town into circles. He's either mafia or he's secretly a communist-dog bent on overthrowing our system as a martyr for government-run healthcare. Moreover, a ryan-attacker (although he's somewhat a victim of circumstance here). I am currently not opposed to a Gamma lynch.
EsoMonty - Went from being the worst of the lot to a neutral read (a pretty big step). I've never seen an original case against ryan from Eso. A complete follower who has shamelessly played the newbcard throughout the beginning of the game. No one has so much as batted an eye at Eso (except for GIEFF, which is partially why he is on the top of my townie list). He's only been subjected to minimal, passing suspicions, when I think all his contributions in the beginning of the game are fake and based on the fact that he's flying under the radar with an early ryan vote. Very actively trying to "blend into" the wagon as a driver of it, but he's yet to be pressed to make a bold position statement.
However
, with his recent interest in getting the hypos in order, pressuring rofl, and changing his vote to Gamma, I have given Eso more credit in the late part of D1. I'm beginning to think he was just a little overwhelmed with the game at the beginning and went for the ryan-attackers because of his general lurkiness.
Empking/magisterrain/Caboose - Small time. Caboose could've been a leader, magisterrain was an unpredictable bombshell that everyone (much to my dismay) kind of ignored, and Empking is a quiet-but-deadly player. Although I generally liked both magi and caboose, I don't particularly care for Emp's beginning posts. A ryan-attacker who's list (post 297) I only somewhat agree with. Not getting a great vibe from him.
Xtoxm/Badguy - Small time. Generally lurking most of the day. Very difficult to get a decent read on him, but leaning more town with Xtoxm than I am with Emp. He needs to pick up activity tomorrow.
camn/BlakAdder - BlakAdder was small time, camn has come in with both barrels firing. I like how she's active, I don't like her contributions much. Her list (post 308) seems inoffensive (she's a ryan-attacker and she weakly picked on BSG for lurking
) She's continued to hammer on ryan, even though I thought he answered her very well. She seems extremely uninterested in pressuring anyone besides ryan and BSG (and when she pressured BSG she seemed so worried that people would take her the wrong way). She just doesn't sit well with me.
vote: Gamma
I am putting Gamma at L-1. I want to see what, if anything, camn/rofl do now. I absolutely will not vote ryan today (barring any sort of major slip-up on his end).
(If you have any questions over anything I said here, please don't hesitate to ask me. Bare in mind that I as I was writing that summary I was thinking in my head, "omg Eso is the worst ever" but as I got to around page 13 I started liking Eso much more and rofl much less. The summary is full of things I thought as I was reading, so if it seems like it jumps around, well, it does. It jumps around as I evolve to a greater understanding of who seems town and who seems scum.)
