Mini 732: Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Mafia (Game Over!)

[Porochaz]

Catching up. At least not much has happened >.>

I don't like posts 242-244 that all comment on how nothing's happening, but don't do anything to cause things to happen.
Post 248 - Yos2: I prefer maximizing the amount of town-controlled kills. Sure, it might also be scum-controlled, but I still prefer using it. Maybe calling it scummy was a bit harsh, but I don't like a no-kill here.
Post 251 - Ruck: Although Mega did express suspicion of fuzzy during day 1, so I don't find it all that strange.
Post 252 - Yos2: Still want me to claim my target?
Post 259 - Gorrad: Hmm, role arguments in a smalltown aren't usually a good idea, IMO. Scumhunting is still pretty important, and everyone has a role, it's not like we can say "oh, vanilla, easy choice for a vig kill"
Post 268 - Gorrad: I don't like the argument of "I might die quickly if I take a good role". Isn't getting killed due to role better than being killed because the scum think you can scumhunt for them more easily?
Post 277 - Yos2: If you really think someone is scum, why shouldn't you kill them, even if it might lose the game for the town? Would you rather control it or have to convince the town you're right?
Post 279 - Yos2: I agree with Yosarian2 about Gorrad.
Post 285 - Gorrad: Why do you find him suspect? I haven't seen you express any reasoning for it, and with the fact that Yos was supicious of you first, this seems like pure OMGUS to me. I also don't think it's a bad idea to keep him from killing if we mislynch.
Post 288 - Porochaz: I find it very strange that you don't have

anything

to add to what's been said today.

I'm going to

FoS: Gorrad and Porochaz

I feel them as scum right now. I really don't like Post 285 where he expresses suspicion of Yos2 with no reasoning and says that a self-vig is a good idea.
Porochaz has done nothing, which is probably the best scum play right now.

Ok you misunderstood, I meant I really cant add much with whats going on and that I wouldnt comment once everybody has gotten through there claim, I cant add anything helpful to that. I was meaning I was going to read over from my first post from day 2 which I now have done.

So in answer to yos2's question. I dislike Master Ruck, his reasoning to me hasnt been the best and his logic is essentially flawed. I dontlike many of his posts at the start of this page, simply because of the way he went about suggesting it.

However Gorrad is top of my list currently, Im trying to get the reasoning behind his actions so far and I am failing badly. The reason he didnt pick tracker just screams non sensical to me. As is the wanting to wait for a protective role... I think at the moment he would be my candidate and thusly

vote Gorrad

[Master Ruck]

I still don't see why there is so much being said against Gorrad not picking up the tracker. Were I the super backup, I would ignore the tracker regardless of role with the given scenario. The SK killed it with no knowledge of the person but instead for the role. Maybe I would have done if it were possible to keep it quiet and not draw the attention of the SK, but with the way we are popcorning every day, I don't see how that is really possible. If I'm wrong with this thought (which I seem to be) then tell me why because I

really

don't see why.

[Porochaz]

I still don't see why there is so much being said against Gorrad not picking up the tracker. Were I the super backup, I would ignore the tracker regardless of role with the given scenario.

The SK killed it with no knowledge of the person but instead for the role.

Maybe I would have done if it were possible to keep it quiet and not draw the attention of the SK, but with the way we are popcorning every day, I don't see how that is really possible. If I'm wrong with this thought (which I seem to be) then tell me why because I

really

don't see why.

How do you know the reasoning, precisely, it could be that but it could have been the person or anything. Especially with this many night choices tracker I dont think tracker is an extremely dangerous role.

[Master Ruck]

For the SK it is. Let's not forget it is a cumulative tracker. Even without hindsight and we assume the SK could have been any other role, being known to have killed someone

and

target someone else in one night would instantly show them out as the SK.

[Porochaz]

Apologies just realised Jebus was scum. Your probably right.

[Master Ruck]

I probably am right, but tell me why Jebus being scum makes that so.

[Porochaz]

Simply because it means that the scumgroup didnt kill him and the motives become clearer. Where scum could be killing anyone with 3 seperate people.

[Porochaz]

That made no sense. Scum can kill with 3 different people. So have a better idea of who to kill and may go for the player rather than the role. Also its cumalitive therefore its easer to choose whether to use your role or go through with a kill as they cant do both. So wouldnt be caught as easy.

[Yosarian2]

I still don't see why there is so much being said against Gorrad not picking up the tracker. Were I the super backup, I would ignore the tracker regardless of role with the given scenario. The SK killed it with no knowledge of the person but instead for the role. Maybe I would have done if it were possible to keep it quiet and not draw the attention of the SK, but with the way we are popcorning every day, I don't see how that is really possible. If I'm wrong with this thought (which I seem to be) then tell me why because I

really

don't see why.

You are right, if Gorrad took the tracker role last night and said so now, there would be an increased risk of him being targeted by the SK. It's not that high a risk, though; as of last night, when Gorrad had the choice, there were two seperate protective roles left (of course, one was scum, but town-Gorrad couldn't know that), so if he took the tracker role, and thus made himself useful, there was a very high chance he might get protected.

Basically, I would expect Gorrad-town to make himself as useful as possible to the town, and not say "I'm going to be less useful to the town then I otherwise could have, because that should lower my chances of getting nightkilled a little bit." That's just terrible town stratagy, especally considering what his other options are; and his "I want a protective role" thing is just lame, considering how much less useful a protective role is to the town then a info role would be.

On the other hand, scum-Gorrad wouldn't even really want a tracker role, he'd much rather have a jailkeeper role or better yet a vig role, something he could use to really help his scum team; and he certanly wouldn't want to do anything to increase his chance of getting SK'ed, just like his scumbuddy Jebus had just been.

So, basically, Gorrad's actions there just make more sense from a scum point of view then from a town point of view. It's not a slam dunk; foolish as it is, I've seen some town make the mistake of being overly worried about the nightkill to the point where they didn't play as well as they could have been in order to avoid the kill; but that's just bad stratagy. Basically, it's a strike against Gorrad, no question.

That being said, Gorrad does have a point about Porochaz. Now, I'm not willing to lynch him just because of his role; that only gives us a 2 in 7 chance of hitting scum, we need to do better then that today; but let's just say that Porochaz needs to convince us he's town in order for us to take the risk of letting him live today. At least he's posting now, which helps his case a little bit there in my book.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, the three posts you brought up:

259: I already stated my feeling on this. I didn't think Fuzzy was scum, I wouldn't have chosen him as a vig, and the fact that he was one of our two remaining information roles (the other being the death-prone Weak Doc) is nothing more than icing on the cake. Plus, the fact that he was such a role makes him an optimal mafia choice.

Did you just not remember that Megatheory kept expressing suspicion of fuzzy or were you taking that into account?

268: I thought at the time that I could not use my power during the day. Whether or not this assumption was true, I'm not currently saying. I didn't expect three of the best roles to die in one night. Should I have taken the role? Probably. That was honestly a mistake in judgment on my part.

but you still could have taken tracker during night 1, why didn't you?

285: Reread that post, Cow. I say it's a bad idea for him to kill, and that includes himself. In 285 I say it's at least a bad idea for him to kill if we mislynch, then in 287 I extend that to no vig tonight no matter what. Yeah, under different circumstances, I would say it's a good idea for him to do so, I think he's scummy. But now? No.

I state suspicion of Megatheory/Yos in posts 51 and 253, and I spend a good amount of D2 challenging Megatheory's target of Fuzzy. I thought that was enough prior base that the fact I was suspicious was obvious.

You think Yos is scummy or you think Megatheory is scummy? What do you think of Yos since he replaced in? You may have voted megatheory in post 51, but I can't be sure that you were actually all that suspicious of him as you never explained the reasoning for it, unless I just missed it. Plus, 253 is suspicion of Megatheory again and not Yos.

Hasd, what do you think of 291/293?

I think Porochaz is suspicious for not really saying much of anything, but I'm not sure I want to lynch him just based on role.

[Gorrad]

Ok, the three posts you brought up:

259: I already stated my feeling on this. I didn't think Fuzzy was scum, I wouldn't have chosen him as a vig, and the fact that he was one of our two remaining information roles (the other being the death-prone Weak Doc) is nothing more than icing on the cake. Plus, the fact that he was such a role makes him an optimal mafia choice.

Did you just not remember that Megatheory kept expressing suspicion of fuzzy or were you taking that into account?

You mean the one post in which he stated Fuzzy was lurking and the one post where he told Fuzzy to post despite a broken computer? I hardly cann that repeated expression of suspicion.

268: I thought at the time that I could not use my power during the day. Whether or not this assumption was true, I'm not currently saying. I didn't expect three of the best roles to die in one night. Should I have taken the role? Probably. That was honestly a mistake in judgment on my part.

but you still could have taken tracker during night 1, why didn't you?

Haven't we beaten this dead horse enough already? I made a mistake. I thought it would be bad to take a role that got killed based on role alone N0, because I would die before I could use it. I made a mistake, scum points for Gorrad, whoop-de-do, get over it.

285: Reread that post, Cow. I say it's a bad idea for him to kill, and that includes himself. In 285 I say it's at least a bad idea for him to kill if we mislynch, then in 287 I extend that to no vig tonight no matter what. Yeah, under different circumstances, I would say it's a good idea for him to do so, I think he's scummy. But now? No.

I state suspicion of Megatheory/Yos in posts 51 and 253, and I spend a good amount of D2 challenging Megatheory's target of Fuzzy. I thought that was enough prior base that the fact I was suspicious was obvious.

You think Yos is scummy or you think Megatheory is scummy? What do you think of Yos since he replaced in? You may have voted megatheory in post 51, but I can't be sure that you were actually all that suspicious of him as you never explained the reasoning for it, unless I just missed it. Plus, 253 is suspicion of Megatheory again and not Yos.

Primarily Megatheory, Yos by association. The latter DID replace the former. You can't ask me to analyse Yos by himself, there's too much bias based on Megatheory's play.

Hasd, what do you think of 291/293?

I think Porochaz is suspicious for not really saying much of anything, but I'm not sure I want to lynch him just based on role.

Then lynch him for not contributing two things this entire game.

[Porochaz]

Please someone tell me how I can contribute to your popcorn claim when I am a doublevoter. I left this game at the back of my mind whilst I had a lot of work because there was no point. Now there is. Gorrad has crap reasoning and wanting to lynch someone based on lurking at the moment is inherrently scummy.

[Gorrad]

I don't want you to contribute to the popcorn claim. I want you to CONTRIBUTE. You know, like a normal vanilla townie in a normal game. Start, I dunno, TALKING. Having a doublevoter role does not excuse nonparticipation.

We've long since moved past the popcorn stage. There's been pages of talk that had nothing to do with claiming. You didn't participate in it. Start participating. Because thanks to your role, my vote's staying on you until either I'm positive you're town or positive someone else isn't. Considering the only other person I have significant suspicion of right now is Megatheory, good luck.

Though I would also like to hear more from Plum and Malyss, the lurking's worst for Porochaz, and the speed at which he replied when I called him out makes it seem as if he could have posted any time he wanted.

[Porochaz]

Urgh post deleted, in short. I was busy and posting only in games I knew I had to post in. Now Im back. Taking unexpected leave of absences should be ok provided I come back afterwards and dont make it a recurring thing. So Im back Im trying to make an active contribution, now either move on or stay with your lurker vote.

[Gorrad]

As I stated previously, my vote's staying on you until either I'm positive you're town or positive someone else isn't.

[Porochaz]

Ok, well done for voting someone on the sole basis of lurking in a game where we could lose tonight.

[Gorrad]

The mod's gotta prod who the mod's gotta prod
I'm not talking PMs, I mean an electrified rod
All that matters- posting matters which make you feel bad
Soon we will hit deadline, the town is in our hands

Stand back scum, now, watch and you will see
The reasons why Porochaz is a good lynch to me
It seems Gorrad's the one who will post when there's a break
The choice here's an easy one to make

A maaaaaaan's gotta lynch who a man's gotta lynch
Porochaaaaaaaz is good- making a case is a cinch
His day one play consisted of randomness and then
Defense of posting hammered- not just an 'if', a 'when'

One fifty two's a contradiction, and to me does not make sense
His posts through forty seven were completely a defense
Of the random play he says is here a tell for Rishi
I don't follow so please bear with me

(Next three are Hammer, Penny, and Horrible, respectively)

Raaaaaaandom votes are to make people play
It's often accepted that to drop them is OK
They are by nature random, so it doesn't matter who
You vote for when you make them- explain this concept, you!
Your statement is confusing, though it was the other day
I'd like if you explained it anyway

Day two I've covered
He had barely said a word
He lurked openly through the day
He spoke a bit
But three oh six shows that what he did say
Was lurking and not comprehending, eh?

This isn't enough?
His role is a danger
Did you notice that if he is scum then we lose?
He can vote twice
It's like playing with loaded dice
Anyone?
POST!

[Porochaz]

Hai! Im here, your voting me for lurking right... sorry I just thought Id check that. Then against the records I have here... hmmm... seems like everyone is lurking at the moment... why gorrad where is your leg??? It seems you have nothing to stand on...

[Yosarian2]

Gorrad: Lol. I appriciate the effort, but, is there any way you could lay out the case againt Porochaz in a non-rhyming way? (Other then his role being a threat, which we already know)

[Porochaz]

I think his case boils down to -
I can vote twice
I was lurking (semi-unavodably, but for the purposes of this lets just say lurking)
I could be scum

Its a solid case much like my case on Gorrad on page 1/2

[Yosarian2]

Gorrad: Although, you saying we should lynch prozac because of his role makes me a little nervous, because you role is almost as dangerous.

I mean, if you are scum, then you could lynch prozac today, take his role tonight, and auto-win for the scum tommorow, couldn't you?

[Gorrad]

Case (in a way that don't rhyme none):
1. Starting a strong random vote stage, then later making really confusing statements which I still don't understand about Rishi removing a random vote.

2. Defending posting while drunk- while not neccesarily a terrible idea, alcohol (known to impair reasoning) is certainly not an ideal influence to be under. Also, should you make a mistake, you could retroactively blame it on inebrity.

3. Lurking. Hard. Others are doing it too, that's like telling a cop 'But everyone else was driving fifteen MPH above the speed limit'.

4. Now that he IS posting, all he's said is that he didn't understand how his role was a danger and that he was, in fact, intentionally lurking.

5. He has contributed nigh-nothing to the game.

6. If he's scum and we don't lynch him, we lose.


Yos: That had actually not occured to me. If it helps, I HAVE already taken a role. I wasn't going to say so, but this seems like a good reason to.

With so much lurking going on, it would be really easy for scum to just not post. Malyss and Plum, I'm looking at y'all! Porochaz isn't off the hook because he's only been active because I've been acusing him, but Yos is looking a lot better considering he's actually saying something.

[Porochaz]

Case (in a way that don't rhyme none):
2. Defending posting while drunk- while not neccesarily a terrible idea, alcohol (known to impair reasoning) is certainly not an ideal influence to be under. Also, should you make a mistake, you could retroactively blame it on inebrity.

I have a name for myself as the biggest drunk on site. Probably not the best name but I dont see how you can use this point against me when I have posted frequently drunk before and will more than likely do so again. I have never used my drunkeness as a defence, apart from anything else it would be a shit one at that.

3. Lurking. Hard. Others are doing it too, that's like telling a cop 'But everyone else was driving fifteen MPH above the speed limit'.

It still negates your very minor point anyway. Everyones lurking but lets call Prozac scum and noone else. A cops job is to stop everyone driving 15 mph over the speed limit, not tail one person. Also Gorrad I thought you were more experienced than to take lurking as a scumtell.

4. Now that he IS posting, all he's said is that he didn't understand how his role was a danger and that he was, in fact, intentionally lurking.

Please tell me where I said that. I am very aware what problems a doublevoter could have to the game. I was also saying I had a reason. Which to clarify in short was I was essentially LA I went into the games that immediately concerned me. Unfortunetly a popcorn claim does not. Even more unfortunate was I couldnt get the time for this game afterwards now I do and Im rectifying as such. Which leads onto...

5. He has contributed nigh-nothing to the game.

I have answered the questions asked of me. I have placed a vote, I have stated WHY Ive placed a vote. I am stuck in this rut with you now where you are trying to stick a case to me with absolutely nothing. The big thing thats happening at the moment is you trying to lynch me based on what is essentially lurking and non contributing. I think my actions of late are proving you very wrong. Do you expect me to ignore what your saying and carry on with a random road of enquiry when I actually think your scum. I think that would be counter intuitive.

6. If he's scum and we don't lynch him, we lose.

And if I am town and you lynch me you could lose a dozen of different ways, not least you could gain my role as scum and win. Obviously your point below contradicts that. Theres a number of ways this could work out. Even if I was scum, and yos doesnt kill (I believe he said that already) then technically town still have a chance of winning. Thats to say you are even telling the truth, how would anybody know until its too late?

With so much lurking going on, it would be really easy for scum to just not post. Malyss and Plum, I'm looking at y'all! Porochaz isn't off the hook because he's only been active because I've been acusing him, but Yos is looking a lot better considering he's actually saying something.

well done for adding that bit after somebosies said something.

[Master Ruck]

Gorrad: Although, you saying we should lynch prozac because of his role makes me a little nervous, because you role is almost as dangerous.

I mean, if you are scum, then you could lynch prozac today, take his role tonight, and auto-win for the scum tommorow, couldn't you?

The auto-win you suggest here would depend heavily on who else dies tonight. Scum only win if they have an equal or majority rule that cannot be denied in any way. An accurate vig kill (if town) could balance it out or Plum's one-shot governor does not give the scum an instant win come tomorrow. Even if poro does die before tomorrow, I'm finding it hard to see the game ending there and then.

[Gorrad]

I don't travel the site outside games much, so I know nothing about your drunk reputation. I'll take it at your word.

I'm calling you out as scum because at least when they did post, Plum and Malyss contributed. Lurking isn't a scumtell at times (flameaxe, for example), but in a mini where the next day could be LYLO and there's an opportunity to contribute and someone's knowingly not doing so, I find that scummy.

The dangers of the doublevoter part was me having a complete braint fart. I meant ignorant of my reasoning not to take the tracker. 300-307.

List your contributions before post 291. I want to see it, seriously.

I said that there was a sure chance because I didn't want to give my role. Now that I've been forced, I'll tip my hand. I took JK. If I hadn't, they could have gone for Hasd and had a 100% shot of win (keep in mind that Bad Horse's ability only works for people targetting Malyss). Now I've managed to make it so that that chance's reduced, but there's still a HIGH chance that they'll find a way around it. You, Ruck, can protect yourself. Malyss has a chance to be able to. Hasd's protect would kill himself, so if he's town we can't rely on that. That leaves my JK as our ONLY chance to survive if we mislynch today someone other than Porochaz.