Newbie 744 -- Game Over!

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

CntRational (2): Kmd4390, syndromeofadown
syndromeofadown (1): ZazieR

Not Voting: Raivann, alexhans, AshKetchummm, CntRational

4 to lynch

[Raivann]

Ok, thanks. I got my re-read done and I feel confident in a...

Vote:CntR

For all the reasons that have been previously stated by everyone
and I'm not believing his answers today

But I still think the fact that you said Mizz was a townie, and decided to vote for me anyways. I don't think thats just trying to get the game moving along, I don't think a Town player would risk lynching someone they thing it town no matter what

I agree

I'm more cautious during the beginning of the game, but less so later on.

not buying it

Yeah I know it's L1 , sorry alex but CntR is my top suspect by far and I feel my vote is in the right place

[Kmd4390]

Raiv, can you give some reasons of your own why CnT is scummy? Or even just tell us what specific points against him you agree with and what answers you don't believe?

[Yaw]

Semi-important announcement: I'm going away for the weekend. I'll be gone from tomorrow until Monday night. I've asked SensFan to look over the game, so you'll get all the usual vote counts, prods, and replacements as required.

[Raivann]

Well there was a couple I listed but since you ask...Ok I'll give more. I'm not a big fan of long posts but here goes.
It starts back in RV stage when he fos'ed instead of voting...

Just in case you wondered why I would not vote for him if he had 2 votes is that: Assuming that the first 2 voters aren't mafia and I place my vote on him, would leave him with Lynch-2, at which the scum could come and voterush him, leading to a waste of a day 1 lynch.

He doesn't want to waste day 1 lynch here. Then quickly changes to vote after called out by Zazie & Kmd then unvotes

CntR are you scumbuddies with Ash?

Cntr had been on my list early on for his fos instead of vote ,then quick change to vote just to not look suspicious, then unvote of syndrome

One player who did catch my attention is CntR. You might remember that he called Dennis out as he didn't post after his vote. Afterwards, he also saw that Mizz hadn't posted after her vote. But when she does post, he only states that he would vote her after waiting on a post (after those 3) as she pinged his scumdar. But he never stated why, and he didn't respond to her last post before she asked to be replaced.

as well as that point by Zazie.

Then when asked what he thought about Ash/Mizz...

Thought that she was mostly a lurker-ish (who could be putting up a newbie pose) player before she left, but at the moment, I feel that she might just be a confused townie.

And I just got a hunch on mizz, not much to go on, really...

Then there was this scummy post...

I want to get this going somewhere, so...

Vote:AshKetchummm

Vote: CntR
putting ash at L-1 , especially with his reason to get things going, was scummy.

Then I unvoted because of blue's vote and him saying "someones gotta go first". I got distracted by blue's posts and went for a blue lynch, which he did deserve by the way.

well, he hasn't responded and is probely hoping that some kind of distraction will come up...

Which is exactly what blue was.

syndromeofadown wrote:

This is what really pinged my scumdar. Remember when he didn't vote me in fear of l-2 and scum-rushing? Now he goes and puts someone at l-1 for no reason at all! And what makes this extra scummy is this:

Kmd4390 wrote:
I see that you[cntrational] were cautious as town in Newbie 709, so I won't hold it against you.


Does that look like a cautious townie move to any of you guys? Which brings up the question: Why would cntr do this if it was already established that he acts cautious as town? Would any (cnt) rational person really think that putting someone at l-1 just to "get the game going" would help himself or the town at all?


I agree with this part of syndrome's crazy theory time. Totally forgot about that. I think the strategy of Zazie being mafia partners with CntR and bussing him could be believable later in the game, but not day 1.

Where is CntR anyways?

syndrome made great point and i still had my eye on Cntr. Sorry cant figure out the pyramid quote thing.

I wished to put more pressure on Ash, and get more information...and I'm a very erratic person, really.

hmmm

Well I gave valid reasons to support my vote, and I really think that he is scum, and also he has made no attempt to prove that he is innocent, all he did was say that he an erratic player, and then went on to point the direction at someone else, simply because they answered a question with a question.

I agree with Ash on this but blue was posting scummy too.

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...should we wait for him to post?

Really wanting a quick blue lynch here , scummy post. To me this post sounds like- Someone please drop the hammer! Whether it's good for the town or not.

The last to post confirm what I've been saying about CNT, not giving any valuable input, and just looking for a lynch it seems like.

I'm much more confident in a Cnt lynch then a blue lynch right now. So I'm keeping my vote on Cnt.

So as to Cntr's playstyle, we're supposed to believe he's cautious during RV stage then aggressive by voting players he doesn't suspect and erratic too, I think scum makes more sense.

1. I'm more cautious during the beginning of the game, but less so later on

like I said, not buying it.

5. That was quite a while later, my opinions changed during that period of time.

6. Like I said, I wanted to end Day 1.

He never expressed his change of opinions just voted to get things moving.
As for wanting to end day 1 and syndrome's question about yellowbunny kill I think that if CntR flips scum it could be because yellowbunny was on blue wagon not Cntr's, I dont know.

phew,
Is that enough for ya Kmd?

[Kmd4390]

phew,
Is that enough for ya Kmd?

Yep. I'm interested to see CnT's response.

[SensFan]

Posting to get this game on my list of topics, and to confirm that I'll be watching this while Yaw is away.

Feel free to PM me any questions you would PM the Mod, if you have any.

[Raivann]

Kmd's and SensFan's avatars would make a good couple.

[ZazieR]

Mod

Could you please prod CntR and SoaD?

Anyway, onto CntR. I don't agree with most of the points that Kmd has made in post 243. I'll give the reasons why after CntR has responded. However, I do agree with 5. Especially after looking at post 187
CntR, how come you didn't mention your reasons for voting Ash in this post?

Also CntR, it surprises me that you keep ignoring questions. What's up with that?
These are my questions you have ignored:
*Anyway, what did you expect as reaction from Ash by putting him at L-1?
*Also, how come you didn't respond to post 167, except for SoaD's assumed scumpair?
*CntR, what do you think of Ash when looking back at the posts he has made after his Raivann vote?
*Also CntR, after looking back, I want to know what the thought behind this was:

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...

should we wait for him to post

?

I'd also like to hear your top suspicion as so far you've only defended yourself this day.

[syndromeofadown]

Sorry for being inactive, last week was really stressful for me with my mom in the hospital and it was the end of the 3rd quarter at school and I had a ton of make up work. Sorry guys

And to make this post not totally useless, ZazieR, who is your top suspicion? Why do you keep asking people who their top suspicion is?

[syndromeofadown]

Well, who is your top suspicion besides me, obviously, since you voted me.

[ZazieR]

Both you and CntR are my top suspicions, now that I also get the impression that CntR lied about his opinion of a player.
So I want to hear from you both about this.

As for why I'm asking for top suspicions, this way players give us something to work with. Take for example CntR. This day, he has only defended himself. If his defence isn't considered good enough, we won't know his suspicions. This way, we have nothing useful regarding his posts.
Then there's you who has posted lots of fluff. And this is completely useless. So by asking a question like this, we can learn your stand on things.

So by asking such a question, players have to participate in the discussion which gives us the chance to get a read on them.

[SensFan]

Vote Count:

CntRational (3): Kmd4390, syndromeofadown, Raivann
syndromeofadown (1): ZazieR

Not Voting: alexhans, AshKetchummm, CntRational

4 to lynch

[SensFan]

CntRational has been prodded.

[CntRational]

1. Why didn't you get aggressive in Newbie 709? Or at least not to the same extent as here.

Well, it was my first game at mafiascum...

2. Well first of all, "boring" discussion gives us stronger reads on players and is helpful to the game. Second, with enough discussion, there is plenty to go on. Sure, we don't have anyone dead and confirmed or anything, but you can still get reads on players based on their actions. And if you want the day to end so quickly, why were you scared to put SoaD at L-2. Is he your scumbuddy?

Sure, but sometimes I do like 'risky' discussion...I'm a bit weird that way...

I somewhat disagree, but that doesn't get us anywhere...

Joking around by paranoid, I guess, and it was the joke vote period in the day...

4. 30 hours isn't that long. People go inactive for days at a time. Not that they should, but they do.

*shrug* I guess I wanted to hear from him soon.

5. Why didn't you post reasons for such a drastic change in opinions.

It's more of a hunch, rather than solid evidence, really...though, I think I said this before.

But I still think the fact that you said Mizz was a townie, and decided to vote for me anyways. I don't think thats just trying to get the game moving along, I don't think a Town player would risk lynching someone they thing it town no matter what.

As I said above, it was a hunch, and while it wasn't much to go on, it's better than nothing.
And I did not say that I was 100% assured that Mizz was town, I just thought that she might be town.

Well there was a couple I listed but since you ask...Ok I'll give more. I'm not a big fan of long posts but here goes.
It starts back in RV stage when he fos'ed instead of voting...

Just in case you wondered why I would not vote for him if he had 2 votes is that: Assuming that the first 2 voters aren't mafia and I place my vote on him, would leave him with Lynch-2, at which the scum could come and voterush him, leading to a waste of a day 1 lynch.

He doesn't want to waste day 1 lynch here. Then quickly changes to vote after called out by Zazie & Kmd then unvotes

As I said above, more of a joke than a serious vote...

CntR are you scumbuddies with Ash?

Cntr had been on my list early on for his fos instead of vote ,then quick change to vote just to not look suspicious, then unvote of syndrome

One player who did catch my attention is CntR. You might remember that he called Dennis out as he didn't post after his vote. Afterwards, he also saw that Mizz hadn't posted after her vote. But when she does post, he only states that he would vote her after waiting on a post (after those 3) as she pinged his scumdar. But he never stated why, and he didn't respond to her last post before she asked to be replaced.

as well as that point by Zazie.

Well, isn't it standard procedure to wait for a response before voting? And I unfortunately missed the last post as well as the replacement, so that is why I did not respond.

Then when asked what he thought about Ash/Mizz...

Thought that she was mostly a lurker-ish (who could be putting up a newbie pose) player before she left, but at the moment, I feel that she might just be a confused townie.

And I just got a hunch on mizz, not much to go on, really...

Then there was this scummy post...

I want to get this going somewhere, so...

Vote:AshKetchummm

Vote: CntR
putting ash at L-1 , especially with his reason to get things going, was scummy.

Then I unvoted because of blue's vote and him saying "someones gotta go first". I got distracted by blue's posts and went for a blue lynch, which he did deserve by the way.

I admit, it was a rash decision, in retrospect...

well, he hasn't responded and is probely hoping that some kind of distraction will come up...

Which is exactly what blue was.

...well, I'm responding now.

syndromeofadown wrote:

This is what really pinged my scumdar. Remember when he didn't vote me in fear of l-2 and scum-rushing? Now he goes and puts someone at l-1 for no reason at all! And what makes this extra scummy is this:

Kmd4390 wrote:
I see that you[cntrational] were cautious as town in Newbie 709, so I won't hold it against you.


Does that look like a cautious townie move to any of you guys? Which brings up the question: Why would cntr do this if it was already established that he acts cautious as town? Would any (cnt) rational person really think that putting someone at l-1 just to "get the game going" would help himself or the town at all?


I agree with this part of syndrome's crazy theory time. Totally forgot about that. I think the strategy of Zazie being mafia partners with CntR and bussing him could be believable later in the game, but not day 1.

Well, we usually have days between posts, and my opinion changes during that time...

Where is CntR anyways?

syndrome made great point and i still had my eye on Cntr. Sorry cant figure out the pyramid quote thing.

I wished to put more pressure on Ash, and get more information...and I'm a very erratic person, really.

hmmm

Well I gave valid reasons to support my vote, and I really think that he is scum, and also he has made no attempt to prove that he is innocent, all he did was say that he an erratic player, and then went on to point the direction at someone else, simply because they answered a question with a question.

I agree with Ash on this but blue was posting scummy too.

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...should we wait for him to post?

Really wanting a quick blue lynch here , scummy post. To me this post sounds like- Someone please drop the hammer! Whether it's good for the town or not.

The last to post confirm what I've been saying about CNT, not giving any valuable input, and just looking for a lynch it seems like.

I'm much more confident in a Cnt lynch then a blue lynch right now. So I'm keeping my vote on Cnt.

So as to Cntr's playstyle, we're supposed to believe he's cautious during RV stage then aggressive by voting players he doesn't suspect and erratic too, I think scum makes more sense.

1. I'm more cautious during the beginning of the game, but less so later on

like I said, not buying it.

5. That was quite a while later, my opinions changed during that period of time.

6. Like I said, I wanted to end Day 1.

He never expressed his change of opinions just voted to get things moving.
As for wanting to end day 1 and syndrome's question about yellowbunny kill I think that if CntR flips scum it could be because yellowbunny was on blue wagon not Cntr's, I dont know.

I don't really have a excuse here, I admit...

Mod

Could you please prod CntR and SoaD?

Anyway, onto CntR. I don't agree with most of the points that Kmd has made in post 243. I'll give the reasons why after CntR has responded. However, I do agree with 5. Especially after looking at post 187
CntR, how come you didn't mention your reasons for voting Ash in this post?

Also CntR, it surprises me that you keep ignoring questions. What's up with that?
These are my questions you have ignored:
*Anyway, what did you expect as reaction from Ash by putting him at L-1?
*Also, how come you didn't respond to post 167, except for SoaD's assumed scumpair?
*CntR, what do you think of Ash when looking back at the posts he has made after his Raivann vote?
*Also CntR, after looking back, I want to know what the thought behind this was:

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...

should we wait for him to post

?

I'd also like to hear your top suspicion as so far you've only defended yourself this day.

* I wasn't sure what to expect from Ash, but I expected something...
* Huh?
* Hmm...I'm still suspicious of him, but nothing that is a huge opinion changer...
* Well, don't we usually wait for a response after putting someone at L-1?

Well, the only suspicion I really have at the moment is Ash...but as you've said, most of my thoughts are about defending myself at the moment...

[Kmd4390]

1. Why didn't you get aggressive in Newbie 709? Or at least not to the same extent as here.

Well, it was my first game at mafiascum...

Ok. New question then. What made you change your playstyle from the first game to this one?

2. Well first of all, "boring" discussion gives us stronger reads on players and is helpful to the game. Second, with enough discussion, there is plenty to go on. Sure, we don't have anyone dead and confirmed or anything, but you can still get reads on players based on their actions. And if you want the day to end so quickly, why were you scared to put SoaD at L-2. Is he your scumbuddy?

Sure, but sometimes I do like 'risky' discussion...I'm a bit weird that way...

I somewhat disagree, but that doesn't get us anywhere...

Joking around by paranoid, I guess, and it was the joke vote period in the day...

Playing "risky" isn't necessarily the way to go. Remember you have teammate(s) who are (or is) counting on you to play to the best of your ability and win the game. You'll find that most, if not all, Mods on MS have "Play to win" as a rule.

Do you really think that talking in thread and scumhunting is all random stuff that won't do anything?

Did you think that 2 people were going to random vote SoaD and get an "accidental" lynch without giving themselves away as scum?

4. 30 hours isn't that long. People go inactive for days at a time. Not that they should, but they do.

*shrug* I guess I wanted to hear from him soon.

Why?

5. Why didn't you post reasons for such a drastic change in opinions.

It's more of a hunch, rather than solid evidence, really...though, I think I said this before.

You voted Ash a little after his controversial vote on a "hunch"? Did you find his vote scummy? Have you looked back at what may have been causing your hunch?

As I said above, it was a hunch, and while it wasn't much to go on, it's better than nothing.
And I did not say that I was 100% assured that Mizz was town, I just thought that she might be town.

You don't have to backpedal. If you thought Mizz was town, stick with it (unless Ash does something really scummy and you change your mind). If you think Ash is scum, look over his posts and see if there is a case there. You should commit to a stance either way. Changing your mind is fine, but have reasons for it.

Well, isn't it standard procedure to wait for a response before voting?

Depends on the player. I personally vote as soon as i have suspicions. If I am satisfied with a response, I unvote.

[Yaw]

I'm back. Thanks to SensFan for looking over this for me.

Also, I've prodded alexhans and AshKetchummm (no posts for 5 days).

[syndromeofadown]

alexhans is having a birthday today! Happy birthday! You share your birthday with my sister. Unless you just made up that birthday. If that's the case then disregard this =P

Vote SoaD

For someone who says that he was convinced that Blue was 100% clean, you have done nothing to give me that impression. Just look at your posts from the moment you posted your theory. From that post, I got the impression that you indeed wanted CntR lynched. But you've never mentioned him afterwards, nor Blue.
Also, we've had the time that Blue had four votes and CntR three. You could have made that a tie, but you didn't. You could have tried to give your opinions why Blue was town to you, but you didn't. I don't trust your latest post at all.
As for my question:

@SoaD
Please state your top suspicion

with reasons

.

.

I wasn't 100% on blue at the time of the question, but at the time I replied I was since we already knew his alliance. It was a joke. Sorry that is wasn't funny. I didn't want to tell of what my opinion of him would have been at the time of the question, because it's impossible to know. (unless I happened to jot down my opinions I was thinking at the time). This is because of a little thing called hindsight bias.

The reason I didnt mention him after, nor Blue after, was because, if you noticed, I became a lot more passive in my playstyle. I wasn't really posting much of ANYTHING, and I didn't mention anyone really. I was posting "fluff" as you'd call it. That is because that was when my mom started getting really sick and it drained a lot of my time and energy. Sorry for not explaining this earlier.

And I'd really like to know, was that really what made it tip the scales for you to vote me, or was there more to it? You seem to have been on cntr's case all game, and even voted for him last game day. You have pointed out many scumtells on cntr, and it you said it yourself he's on the top of your suspect's list.

Then I make one little "blunder" by telling a joke(which all of the sudden makes me lose all of my credibility and trust?), now I'm your top suspect? There has to have been more reasons, and I'm interested to hear. Is it because I might have put a little tiny bit of suspicion on you in post 167, and you didn't like it? Was it because I voted mizz.mafia and am a sexist?

Based on your earlier plays, it seems like you have given other people more of a leeway to defend themselves before you are suspicious enough to give them the big capital L. I am just curious, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not offended and angry that you voted me, It just seems scummy to me that you would vote me based on the reasoning given and how you have handled other situations of scummy behavior in this game.

Do you still want my top suspicions with reasons? Okay, here it is:

1) cntr is my top suspicion. I think I have explained enough as to why I think this is earlier, but if you want me to reiterate, I will.
2) Ash. Mainly due to his earlier plays and mizz mafia's scumminess certainly hurts him. And yes, I do judge replaced players by the actions of whom they happened to replace. But, like I said, the more he plays, the more he seems like he's genuinely trying to help the town
3) ZazieR, alexhans, and Raivann (tie).
a) ZazieR, you are very critical(a good thing), and often your posts seem helpful. However, something about you seems fishy. Sorry, I can't pinpoint exactly what. I am very bad at putting my logic into words. Some of my ideas and reasonings I just can't articulate.
b) alexhans, well, I haven't seen very many insightful and townie posts from this guy, yet I haven't seen anything very outright scummy either. Neutral.
c) Raivann. I don't know. He's just sort of there. He doesn't stick out much to me as one way or another. I usually like to refrain from saying "I don't have a feel on him yet" since that's usually bombarded with responses like "it's already been 11 pages, you should know by now!!" to which all I can say is "I guess I'm not very good at this game" *shrug*
4) kmd. kmd is very active and asks helpful analytical questions which I think benefit the town. This may look like I'm buddying up, but I think he's a step more townier than the above.

[alexhans]

I got prodded.... I'm sorry... I was waiting and analizing and lost tract of the last time I had posted... I Had written some stuff but lost it when I moved back home yesterday... I have no connection right now (I have to get a new internet service) but Ill try to catch up anyway from a Cyber-Cafe.... Ill post tomorrow... I have no time today cause IT IS MY BIRTHDAY!

Don't dare Replace me...

[alexhans]

ups... Mixed smileys there...

[AshKetchummm]

I'm here, and nothing has really changed much in my opinion.


Cntr's reasons are completly sastifactory, but at least now he's addressing questions raised to him. Still at this point he is atop my scumdar.

I liked Syndromes post, good to see some insight from a different perspective.

So I'm not really sure where to go from here. I believe that Cntr's still very closed to being lynched. I don't want to drop a bad hammer again, so I'd like to see some more discussion before I place my vote on him.

[Raivann]

happy bday alex.

[Yaw]

Nobody needs prods, but the lack of posting in here is distressing. Expect a deadline if the activity doesn't pick up.

[ZazieR]

Happy belated Birthday Alex.
And a happy Birthday to Kmd.
Congrats to the both of you


Anyway, first of all CntR:

* I wasn't sure what to expect from Ash, but I expected something...
* Huh?
* Hmm...I'm still suspicious of him, but nothing that is a huge opinion changer...
* Well, don't we usually wait for a response after putting someone at L-1?

* What do you think of this post?
* SoaD was using the argument that you weren't cautious by voting Ash, while Kmd showed a game were you were cautious. I was wondering why you didn't respond to this, while you did respond to Soad's assumed scumpair.
* See the first *
* That's my point. I thought it was weird that you asked if we should wait.

The only thing left I'd like to know is what caused the hunch against Ash.


@SoaD

I wasn't 100% on blue at the time of the question, but at the time I replied I was since we already knew his alliance. It was a joke. Sorry that is wasn't funny. I didn't want to tell of what my opinion of him would have been at the time of the question, because it's impossible to know. (unless I happened to jot down my opinions I was thinking at the time). This is because of a little thing called hindsight bias.

Not buying it. First of all, the 'it was a joke'-excuse is outdated. Has been used once on me and failed back then as well. If you wonder why, the answer is: smileys. Just look back at the post in which I ask if you actually believe what you're saying about me and CntR as scumteam. In that post, you used a smiley as it was apparently a joke (I'll get back to this later in this post). But when posting your opinion about Blue, there was no smiley involved.
Also, if it was indeed posted because it was based upon knowing his allignment, then I'd expect that you'd add something along the lines of: 'Blue is clean. I'm 100% sure about this as he's dead.' Or you could have ignored that part of the question as it won't be of any use at the time you answered it.

The reason I didnt mention him after, nor Blue after, was because, if you noticed, I became a lot more passive in my playstyle. I wasn't really posting much of ANYTHING, and I didn't mention anyone really. I was posting "fluff" as you'd call it. That is because that was when my mom started getting really sick and it drained a lot of my time and energy. Sorry for not explaining this earlier.

I'm sorry to hear that, but once again I have to say that I'm not buying this as an excuse. I can understand that it will decrease the time for you to spend towards mafia, however Blue's last post the ninth of March. His biggest action was made on the eigth, before you made your crazy theory. So if you had time to do 'a joke', I'm wondering why you didn't have time to comment on Blue's action.
(PS, it could be that the dates are different due to different timezones)

And I'd really like to know, was that really what made it tip the scales for you to vote me, or was there more to it? You seem to have been on cntr's case all game, and even voted for him last game day. You have pointed out many scumtells on cntr, and it you said it yourself he's on the top of your suspect's list.

LAL (Lynch All Liars) is the main reason. Then there was also the fact that you voted CntR immediatly at the start, while you didn't vote him after you posted 'your case' against him on day 1. Then there's also this part of your first post day 2 that I don't like (gut):

Cntr is scummy, we've already been over this, no need to beat a dead horse.

And as we're now talking about the CntR votes of last day, why weren't you one of them?

Is it because I might have put a little tiny bit of suspicion on you in post 167, and you didn't like it? Was it because I voted mizz.mafia and am a sexist?

It's good to know that you finally admit that you're a sexist, while saying at the start that you weren't one . But my answer to both questions is: 'No'.
Reasons can be find in this post.
Also, if you think it's OMGUS, just say so

Based on your earlier plays, it seems like you have given other people more of a leeway to defend themselves before you are suspicious enough to give them the big capital L. I am just curious, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not offended and angry that you voted me, It just seems scummy to me that you would vote me based on the reasoning given and how you have handled other situations of scummy behavior in this game.

I prefer to have my vote as soon as possible on the player who deserves it. And this depends from time to time when I see it as the right time.
The moment when someone understands all of my actions, is the time Natirasha will act pro-town in each of his games (aka very unlikely).


NOTE: I want to hear a response first from SoaD before someone may discuss this post. And I'd prefer it if Ash could respond afterwards, but this isn't obligatory.

[Kmd4390]

And a happy Birthday to Kmd.
Congrats to the both of you

Thanks (again )