Newbie 762 - OhGodMyVillage - Game Over

[Santos]

I forgot to add:

It may have appeared I was rolefishing, but my intentions were simple for the townies:

If you are townie, then you shouldn't have a problem role claiming it. Eventually, we would hopefully have everyone claiming townie, and then look back on the day and its discussion and try to find out who is more pro townie than the other, then lynch the least contributing claimed townie.

That was my logic.

[Santos]

Obviously, if we have a doctor in the setup, claim townie.

[Santos]

yay 4th post,

My ultimate intention was to instigate activity from the lesser contributing parties. End of story.

[Scien]

My question was simple and that was to speculate about the scenarios since we have done so much else today. I thought it would be interesting to see what people thought of the setup.

No. It flat out doesn't make sense to ask this. I assume it was just a newbie mistake for the moment. I typed out a long explanation, but Mastin's short one in 172 is the same but more concise.

I was not role fishing

Maybe not, but as per above, since that question can only harm the town and not help it, it looks bad.

Why did you ask about role setup if you already have some knowledge of it?

Uh, why do you think this would be a good idea as opposed to a bad idea? I was not seeking role claims by asking what I did.

I don't understand this question. I think your question about game setup, was a bad question. I think there was no way that it would have been a good question at this stage of the game.

In summary,
-Santos's actions as cop make sense,[1]
-Santos's actions as scum make nearly as much sense,[2]
-Santos's overall feel and attitude towards the game was rather anti-town,[3]
-I am divided between believing and disbelieving the claim,[4]
-Yet regardless of what I think, it would be a bad idea to lynch the cop claim day one.[5]

Hmm. [1]Yes I can see this kinda, although I think it was the wrong move Santos. [2][3]Agree. [4][5]I think it is the wrong move to lynch him today solely for this claim. If its true there is a good chance that the scum are going to off him, or try to off him tonight depending on setup. If the claim is not true, the real cop shouldn't be speaking up necessarily, however. I get a all around feeling that we should look elsewhere for now, but maybe revisit the issue after we have more info in day 2 or 3.

If you're seriously thinking about lynching me, then you might as well ask your moderator to replace me so you guys don't eff yourselves.

We can do quite well without a cop, its just better to have it. And you 'effed' the town and yourself if you are telling the truth.

If you are townie, then you shouldn't have a problem role claiming it.

But thats the only answer you SHOULD get. Everyone's best answer after that question would have been 'Oh IDK, probably any one of the 4 possibilities' and in essence claimed vanilla townie for now. And other answer would have pretty much been a claim.

Obviously, if we have a doctor in the setup, claim townie.

Just don't claim. No one here needs to claim anything.

Ok. I said it before but I know people skim my posts. At this stage in the game I don't want to lynch Santos, even though I don't trust his claim.
Reasoning? Basically long story short, there are a bunch of possibilites to get info out of this strange turn of events but they all happen at night. Lynching Santos now just gives the scum a free night if Santos is telling the truth. And if he is not telling the truth, it should be pretty obvious either tomorrow or the next day. That's my opinion.

[Santos]

mod replace me.

[Papa Zito]

mod replace me.

Wow. Don't quit dude. If you're the cop then stick around and kill some bad guys.

Sorry all, I skimmed but I'm about a page or so behind. I was busy all weekend with Easter-related stuff. I'll have something to post either late tonight or tomorrow, depending on how tired I am.

[Mastin]

mod replace me.

*sighs*

You didn't have to do anything radical. All you had to do is do a little scum hunting instead of lurk. That's all it would have taken. Don't replace out because we thought it was scummy for you to do something that might be your play style. It's not much to ask for a little contribution...

[MiteyMouse]

Wow...Santos...don't replace out. Defend yourself and hunt Scum...that is all that is being asked of you. Please also remember, we all were given roles and the other players don't know what they are. If you are in a power position as you say you are, we don't know that. Now that you have claimed, help us find Scum!

[sirdanilot]

It seems that Santos has a LOT to learn still. As an IC I will post several lessons of what not to do here.

Do not:
1. Self vote as town. Ever. And probably not as scum either.
2. Claim cop at l-3 or something. If you are indeed the cop, you are only going to claim that in the most extreme circumstances when a lynch is almost imminent. It's probably not a good idea as scum either.
3. Give up and replace out. It seems like Santos realized he made a mistake and he just gave up by replacing out. The best and most honorable thing to do after you make a dumb mistake is to try and make the best of it yourself, not burden the mod with finding a replacement who is willing to clean up your mess. Only replace out when real life just renders you completely unable to play.
4. Panic. Panicking is never good, scum make slip ups and town get themselves into more trouble.

That's all for my little lecture. I agree with mastin that the true cop should not claim (if there is one) and that we should probably not lynch Santos for now.

Since a Santos lynch is not happening today, I have decided to move my vote to my second largest suspect.

unvote santos
Vote: Papa Zito

Maybe this will stir up our discussion a bit, PZ. I think you know the reasons of my suspicion, I discussed them with you.

[Santos]

THe biggest issue I feel I was doing by replacing out was so you guys don't lynch a cop. Tell me I'm wrong?

Now all I can be is a townie. So if you'll have me back, I'm game to play. I just didn't want you guys to make the mistake.


Anyways, if anyone still wants me to be around, I can very much say we have narrowed the scenarios down to two possibilites...so...

[Santos]

Oh, and I definitely believe the mafia will have to take a shot at me because setup 1 I would have to be role blocked, but then I would be protected (hopefully). I don't think they would try this is they now know its setup 1 and they are one mafia role blocker and 1 mafia goon.

So the scum have to take a chance on the third setup and try and kill me tonight because I have a good idea of who I want to attempt to investigate. Should I enlighten you with who I suspect after re-reading the day?

[Santos]

sorry, disregard the above post.


We have to think like the mafia now that we have narrowed the game to two setups. The mafia are the ones who know what the final setup is now. They know its 1 or 3 while we can only assume its 1 or 3. Right? So what can we make of that? They will either have to expect a doctor will protect if it IS setup 1, or they can kill me in setup 3 and essentially tell the rest of you townies that its setup 3.

Basically, I feel me claiming now, and with me dying at night, can actually help you guys win the game. What do you think?

[Santos]

EBWOP 3, oh and if the scum try anything out of the ordinary (like not role blocking or killing me) it would seriously be them making a huge risk of me not investigating one of them tonight lol.

[MiteyMouse]

Ah...the rolefishing that I saw from you Santos was the opposite of what I thought it was. I thought you were trying to out the Cop and Doctor but, it seems, you were trying to see if we had a roleblocker. Be very careful with things like that in the future as, the Scum would have known that you are not Scum so they would have taken you as a power role! I'm not trying to be hard just, trying to help you improve for your next game. I can't remember, have you played before? Welcome back by the way!

unvote Santos

Now, I'm apt to believe Santos. This is not an uncommon thing to see from a newbie power role. If we have a Doctor, please be careful as, we are going to need you.

[Scien]

First off Santos, I don't know if I believe you, but I definitely want to see you live for today. It causes interesting things to happen tonight and tomorrow and might even result in a no action night.

Now to answer some questions about your play:

THe biggest issue I feel I was doing by replacing out was so you guys don't lynch a cop. Tell me I'm wrong?

You're pretty much wrong here. If people wanted to lynch you, you replacing would not help your cause, in fact it would probably harm it. After the replace the new person would have a hard time explaining what you might have been thinking in some of your plays. By you sticking around instead, you can mount a better defense of your past actions. Plus if the whole town was really out to get you, its just nasty to force someone to replace into that.

Now all I can be is a townie. So if you'll have me back, I'm game to play. I just didn't want you guys to make the mistake.

Please do stick around. And no, we don't necessarily know if you are telling the truth yet, so we can't be sure that you are townie yet. We'll know in a couple of game days or so.

They know its 1 or 3 while we can only assume its 1 or 3. Right?

Wow I have not been giving you enough credit. I kept typing out possibilities and you kept addressing them later in posts. The above quote is true. But we won't have any info out of it until tomorrow. Which is why so many are against your lynch now.

Basically, I feel me claiming now, and with me dying at night, can actually help you guys win the game. What do you think?

We can use it, but it would have been better to have you investigate at least a few nights first. This is kinda trying to make the best of a bad situation now.

oh and if the scum try anything out of the ordinary (like not role blocking or killing me) it would seriously be them making a huge risk of me not investigating one of them tonight

Correct kinda.

When I get more time today I'll go back and gather my thoughts on the game so that I can get my questions out again to the people I still suspect.

[OhGodMyLife]

Replacing Ubaten. Santos, send me a PM confirming whether or not you want to be replaced.

Votecount coming as soon as I figure out how I screwed that last one up so bad.

[Scien]

First off, Santos, please stay. You are in a position to play better than any replacement could in the coming game. Replacing will not solve anything. Stick it out, you've pretty much saved yourself for a night or two anyway.

Ok, on my reread I didn't see anything that jumped out at me. I thought I had a question about a post of Phily's but on reread the post seemed to make sense. However, just so you know Phily, if you are still listening, the fourth scenario that I was talking about is Scien townie, Mastin scum. I was just warning you that if I am lynched, don't blindly assume that when I flip townie, Mastin is clear. Give him any scrutiny that you need to.

Right now my vote is on Phily, and my scummy list is:
Phily,
Ubaten
in that order.

I don't necessarilly trust Santos' claim, but I would like to see what happens the next few nights around him. I've kept him off my scummy list because of this.

I want to hear more from:
Phily,
Ubaten or his replacement.
Lleu he has not been replaced after 48 hours, so he must be around?

OGML: Has Lleu responded to you yet?

MM. She's been around, I would just like to hear more.

So to those four guys, what is your current thoughts on the game? Any ideas where you want go from here? We are approaching deadline, what are your thoughts on that?

I'm getting pro-town vibes from:
MiteyMouse (kinda),
Sirdanilot (a bit, more recently)
Papa Zito (a bunch, but not my play style)
Mastin (a bunch for the moment)

While these people don't see necessarily eye to eye with me, they do seem to be actively looking around at others posts, and seem to be interested in getting info out to the town. Sounds pretty pro-town to me.

[OhGodMyLife]

Lleu is also being replaced. Thats my bad for forgetting to mention that along with the Ubaten replacement.

[Papa Zito]

Man, I dunno what to make of the Santos situation. I'm glad you're still playing though.

Since a Santos lynch is not happening today, I have decided to move my vote to my second largest suspect.

unvote santos
Vote: Papa Zito

Maybe this will stir up our discussion a bit, PZ. I think you know the reasons of my suspicion, I discussed them with you.

Ack, my first vote.

Did 157 not answer your question? Or are you talking about something else? Sorry I let things lapse over the weekend but Santos was more interesting anyway.

[Papa Zito]

So the scum have to take a chance on the third setup and try and kill me tonight because I have a good idea of who I want to attempt to investigate. Should I enlighten you with who I suspect after re-reading the day?

Sorry for the double, missed this.

Yes, please share. The more viewpoints get out there, the more info we'll have, and the more likely we'll win.

[Santos]

Well, before I spill the beans on who I think is more pro town, I would like to get an okay from at least a few people...if you don't mind.

[Scien]

Well, before I spill the beans on who I think is more pro town, I would like to get an okay from at least a few people...if you don't mind.

I ditto Papa Zito then. The more viewpoints given to the town the better. Besides if we have no doctor, you might bite it tonight. So getting your thoughts in text will be beneficial to the town later on.

[MiteyMouse]

Well, before I spill the beans on who I think is more pro town, I would like to get an okay from at least a few people...if you don't mind.

Santos...you are in a very unique position here. I would normally not recomend posting a trust list but, well (let's be real here) I would be surprised if you lasted until Day 2 (if in fact you are the real Cop). I don't think that you have the luxury of withholding information from your team. I do, at this point, believe you and would love to hear your thoughts!

[sirdanilot]

Well, if santos is indeed the cop, then giving a towny list might be the same as giving nk targets to the scum. If we have a doc, this might harm him (since docs are typically town) but the doc could also protect one of those targets, and if we have only townies left it doesn't really matter that much. And if santos is scum it'll only give us more info about his partner. I guess you can tell us, but I am way more interested in the summary he promised us earlier, and also his top suspects.

[OhGodMyLife]

xRECKONERx replaced Lleu. Welcome to the game, xRECKONERx!