Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[GIEFF]

I am not implying you are scumbuddies, unless KMD starts making quote pyramids.

Bad argument like it was there. I was town in that game and so was Empking.

Oops, didn't realize that was a L-1 vote.

Unvote.

Hah, thought it was the final one, did ya?




DDP - it is not consistent with her town meta OR her scum meta. camn scumhunts as both aligments, so a meta argument is null. But the behavior itself is NOT null. If a player performs a scummy action, do you think that action is suddenly much less scummy because that player has never performed it before?

[Benmage]

That is NOT what an OMGUS vote is. An OMGUS vote is a vote for somebody who has been attacking you. It's not a big deal - it is only scummy insofar as voting people for reasons OTHER than trying to catch scum can be scummy, and that it can serve as a proxy for more substantial scumhunting.

A vote with no backing is called what?

I agree, camn - our massive exchanges are very bad for the town, and a lot is falling through the cracks, and the pages and pages provide a convenient excuse for lurkers to remain lurking.

Indeed, this is going nowhere. Just adding fluff.

If you gave initial context it wouldn't have been an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player. I don't know if the wiki offers a handbook or something, but I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

Ouch!

I know, right!?

Don’t worry Camn, ask KmD or Kairyuu, first we fight. Than it gets tiresome, we become best friends, and KmD realizes I am always town.

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall. Regardless I still think a Mastin lynch is best thus far. I really wish he wasn’t only on page 3…*sigh*

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

It seemed like a ton of back and forth, in which I couldn’t even decipher the main points. Then you hopped into the madness. If you want to bullet it for me so I can grasp the main points. All I understood was what Senfans bulleted.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (6): Zachrulez, Benmage, VP Baltar, Debonair Danny DiPietro, camn
GIEFF (2): Kmd4390, jammer
Battle Mage (1): Mastin
Zachrulez (1): SpyreX
SensFan (1): alexhans
VP Baltar (1): Battle Mage
camn (1): GIEFF


Not Voting: Cephrir, blackcatcontract, SensFan

8 to lynch

[VP Baltar]

Continuing where I left off:

I think GIEFF's post 378 is a pretty good analysis of hypo-scum BM.

It's more that it sets them up to take on any opinion they want. I never find remaining consistent as a problem as scum.

yeah, but some players do. It's just a matter of how aware they are of their appearance to other players, and I definitely don't think it should be discounted.

Why did you feel the need to intervene here, Kmd?

Oh, I didn't deny it?
Still not paying attention to reality, huh?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to your response to alex, in which case, no, you did not deny it.

camn, I was talking about you not denying ALEX's claim of OMGUS. Denying mine is fine, but when you deny an accusation from one person, and tacitly admit the SAME accusation from another, that is a problem.

I agree with GIEFF here. As I know for a fact that camn is not dense, it looks somewhat suspicious to try and spin his point in that direction rather than just answer the question.

And PLEASE LYNCH ME!!!!!
PLEASE!
DO IT NOW!!!

I want to die right now just so the world will see how flawed your so-called "scumhunting" is.

Don't start sounding like dejkha.

don't really like the last followers of the Mastin wagon, DDD & SF. I don't think falling behind after being V/LA and having other games where to catch up is a relieable meta-tell at this point and doesn't deserve that amount of votes while he isn't posting.
I think Alex is thinking along those lines. But was going against the wagon a little to hard. He is more attacking the "intentions" of the wagon followers then defending Mastin himself.

Way to conveniently get on both sides of the alex issue.

He simply has played a ton of games with me.. whereas you have not.
If you are actually interested in truth, it would be silly to ignore his insight.... especially considering your reliance on my 'meta'

I agree with camn here. Kmd would have a better meta read on her than GIEFF would.

@Camn, what do you think about Gieff's 'cases' on you?
Do you think he is mafia trying to mislynch you or overeager town?

Does anyone else see scum trying to spur on a fight here?

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

I disagree.

I will sum up my feelings on it. Town vs. town, plain and simple. There are a few good points brought up, and I tried to highlight those above, but most of it is garbage and town should be more interested in lynching Mastin or BM right now.

A vote with no backing is called what?

It's not called OMGUS. Read more.


____________________

Ok, caught up and back in this game. MORE LYNCHING OF BM AND MASTIN, PLZ.

[Kmd4390]

Don’t worry Camn, ask KmD or Kairyuu, first we fight. Than it gets tiresome,

we become best friends, and KmD realizes I am always town.

then I decide to be a dick to someone else instead for no reason.

^Fix'd.

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

It seemed like a ton of back and forth, in which I couldn’t even decipher the main points. Then you hopped into the madness. If you want to bullet it for me so I can grasp the main points. All I understood was what Senfans bulleted.[/quote]

I'll get to this when I feel less lazy.

Why did you feel the need to intervene here, Kmd?

I can't open the link, but I'll assume it's my defense of Camn. GIEFF's case was such crap that I wasn't going to let him push it the way he was. That and my initial scum read on GIEFF and town read on Camn.

[alexhans]

Hi... just logging in to tell you I'm here... I was away but I'll catch up tomorrow and post my thoughts.

[jammer]

don't really like the last followers of the Mastin wagon, DDD & SF. I don't think falling behind after being V/LA and having other games where to catch up is a relieable meta-tell at this point and doesn't deserve that amount of votes while he isn't posting.
I think Alex is thinking along those lines. But was going against the wagon a little to hard. He is more attacking the "intentions" of the wagon followers then defending Mastin himself.

Way to conveniently get on both sides of the alex issue.

Nah, I agree with Alex stand. Mastin is being overlay voted for lurking and his stand on N0 NK's. In your case just for lurking IIRC. I haven't pressed <caps lock> to defend Alex. But I'm on his site, he is getting (to much) attention with the overreacted defence. What was misplaced, what I said earlier.

@Camn, what do you think about Gieff's 'cases' on you?
Do you think he is mafia trying to mislynch you or overeager town?

Does anyone else see scum trying to spur on a fight here?

How does that question spur a fight. I wanted to know how camn though about GIEFF. And those 2 options came to my mind, see it as how I looked at the situation. And suspected the way camn was thinking about Gieff.

@Gieff, please insert a third option.
1) you are mafia.
2) you are town.
3) ?
Camn already made clear she found your case crap(as did I). I wanted to know what camns opinion was about your alignment. Not a question about her allignment.

I can't give some kind of percentage(if you mean that) of Camn being town. I lean towards town, yes.

Gieff, I am not saying Camn may only respond with these options.
A) overeager town
B) SCUM
Those 2 seem most reasenable to me. That is why I mentioned them. Yea, I am fitting reality into 2 options, that is as black and white as I was looking at it.

Btw, I find it quite funny. How you interact with the wiki.

...., as the all-knowing, scum-catching, infallible wiki puts it).

LOL, no serious?

Ok, caught up and back in this game. MORE LYNCHING OF BM AND MASTIN, PLZ.

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo. And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

[SensFan]

Since 2:50 AM EST this morning, Mastin has 2 posts in a specific MD thread. Those posts have a total of 2778 words and 13,455 characters (excluding spaces).

So much for him being too short on time to post in this game...

[Kmd4390]

@Gieff, please insert a third option.
1) you are mafia.
2) you are town.
3) ?

Heh, if this weren't a game with no power roles, I'd be thinking this was an awesome Gambit for a lie detector role. (Ok, there are better things to trick someone into saying, but still.)

[VP Baltar]

How does that question spur a fight.

Well, let's see, camn has already clearly stated how and why she disagrees GIEFF's case. They both agree to let it rest. You come in and say, "hey, gee camn, what do you think of his case? "

You are clearly trying to stir an argument that isn't helping discussion to really move ahead at all, meanwhile resting safely on the sidelines. If you have a problem with GIEFF's case, then make your arguments and don't nudge camn into doing it for you.

those 2 options came to my mind, see it as how I looked at the situation. And suspected the way camn was thinking about Gieff

Wait, so you are suspicious of camn? If so, why do both of your presented options presume camn to be town?

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo.

Well, that is stellar reasoning. You are incorrect.

And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

How do you feel about him promising this game is the next point of order and proceeding to post elsewhere on the site?

[Benmage]

A vote with no backing is called what?

It's not called OMGUS. Read more.

Ok...what is a vote with no backing called??

[Kmd4390]

A vote with no backing is called what?

It's not called OMGUS. Read more.

Ok...what is a vote with no backing called??

I like to call it "a vote with no backing".

OMGUS is technically voting for someone because they voted for you. Although if someone suspected you, but didn't vote, and you vote them for suspecting you, it can be called OMGUS too.

[Benmage]

Since 2:50 AM EST this morning, Mastin has 2 posts in a specific MD thread. Those posts have a total of 2778 words and 13,455 characters (excluding spaces).

So much for him being too short on time to post in this game...

String him up. Are most of going to be convinced with whatever he offers to change our votes?? Wasting time.

[SensFan]

Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

Wow, looks like Mastin now has alex and jammer fighting over a chance to be with him.

Seriously, I don't think you could have misrepresented and strawmanned the attack on Mastin more if you had tried. You see, "Getting at L-2 with plain lurking" conveniently ignored the fact that there is a black-and-white meta reason to call this scummy, the fact Mastin has promised a re-read at least once, and has posted almost 5000 words in a SINGLE MD thread today.

[SensFan]

EBODP: The last sentence should say 2000.

[SensFan]

I just read the rest of the thread. Four more Mastin posts than since I last counted.

His totals for the day are now:
*3246 words
*15,862 characters

[Mastin]

If you've done your research, you'll have a good indication that the latter point doesn't apply to me. I'm a lil disappointed.

I saw you in many games with hascow. That's enough to convince me you know him well enough to NK him.

Vote Count:

Mastin (3): Zachrulez, GIEFF, Battle Mage

I find this interesting. BM definitely seems to be OMGUS'ing me at this point, and I don't understand why Gieff voted me; no reasoning was given at all.

"could" isnt a particularly useful word in this instance. If you want to make a case based solely on Kill WIFOM, i'm saying you should at least research all the contingencies properly.

Do YOU think anyone fits yours?

Could isn't the best word when it comes to if they know hascow or not.
Probably to almost certainly works better.

As for the motive, that could be anything, so could is the correct choice of word for that.

I see no problem with it.

Why not let Mastin defend himself?

'Cause we're scumbuddies, of course.

No problem with defending a player who is busy elsewhere. (Like me, defending my integrity.)

Mastin loves random voting.

Myself, and then the first to vote me in the RVS, yea.
We didn't have the RVS. Well, not *much* of one, anyway. Not enough for that to apply.

My vote's serious.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Am I not him?

@Post 45, Zach…no need to quote the whole thing, but awesome and well done.

Buddying up to Zach.

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

Nice bandwagon. Brilliant reasoning, too. [/sarcasm]

---

Have to eat, now; am in the middle of page four.
(Like the new posting style? )

[jammer]

How does that question spur a fight.

Well, let's see, camn has already clearly stated how and why she disagrees GIEFF's case. They both agree to let it rest. You come in and say, "hey, gee camn, what do you think of his case? "

She said she disagreed. Haven't heard what she was thinking about gieff intentions. And they didn't let it rest back then, btw.

You are clearly trying to stir an argument that isn't helping discussion to really move ahead at all, meanwhile resting safely on the sidelines. If you have a problem with GIEFF's case, then make your arguments and don't nudge camn into doing it for you.

Yea, an earlier startup post was kinda lost and I didn't feel remaking it. (didn't had anything about that "camn case" yet. But I move on that later.

those 2 options came to my mind, see it as how I looked at the situation. And suspected the way camn was thinking about Gieff

Wait, so you are suspicious of camn? If so, why do both of your presented options presume camn to be town?

I suspect 2 options what I think she thinks(sounds complicated now).
I am not suspecting her of being scum at this point.

And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

How do you feel about him promising this game is the next point of order and proceeding to post elsewhere on the site?

I just read the rest of the thread. Four more Mastin posts than since I last counted.

His totals for the day are now:
*3246 words
*15,862 characters

*facepalm*

@Mastin, can you move on towards the point. Skim the pages, and defend against the points brought up against you. Like to see something usefull tomorrow.

[Benmage]

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

Nice bandwagon. Brilliant reasoning, too. [/sarcasm]

The stare was in reference to the quote above it. Your vote was for other reasons.

[camn]

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

Nice bandwagon. Brilliant reasoning, too. [/sarcasm]

The stare was in reference to the quote above it. Your vote was for other reasons.

Wow.. I forgot about this.

WHAT REASONS, BENMAGE

???

Did you really vote for Mastin with no reason given? And indeed, you barely mentioned his name before that?
What was your reason for THAT vote? it was pretty early on.. you might say it was RVS.... or OMGUS???

What was it?

[camn]

OK.. I might get lazy toward the end... cuz this is a big game.
But here are my thoughts, AS OF NOW, of everyone.

Battle Mage

Looks town to me. I was hoping he would chew alex up and spit him out.. but apparently he didn't have the energy for that.
He also was riding Mastin from his very first post.. which I find.. interesting. File for later.
Prob-town.

SensFan

Town. I think everything he says is totally sensible. Somtimes I don't totally agree on PRINCIPLE.. but mostly I do.

alexhans

I don't like his crazy-long posts. I don't know if I think they are

scummy

.. but I feel like they cover up the REAL alex.
Null read.

GIEFF

Overeager town.

Cephrir

How do you "Forget" a game?
dielurkerdie.

VP Baltar

I DO think you have that kind of integrity!
But I am not willing to push your lynch on those grounds. Outside of that, I think that you are your normal town self! I don't know if I have played with you as scum.. but I don't think you would defend me a scum. I think you would like to see me dead as scum..... so likely-town.

Debonair Danny DiPietro

YOU I don't know if you would or wouldn't defend me as scum.
However, you havent posted much.. and from what I can see, your Info:analysis ratio is pretty high. Something seems weird.. prob-scum

blackcatcontract (replacing Kairyuu)

HOW do you forget about a game again? I await the replacements input.

camn

obvtown!

Kmd4390 (replacing broomhead)

I look forward to us being on the same side for once. Probtown, too.

SpyreX

Come Back! We need you!
null read.

Zachrulez

I get a very 'exernalized' feel from this guy. Like.. every post of his is about what is going on OUTSIDE.. and no posts give us any insight into who HE is......
maybe-scum.

Benmage

Expect me to be riding this guys ass for the next 6 months..
I have some commentary on him, but I need some answers first. Ongoing read.

Mastin

Hmm. You started out very active, but I don't like all your formulas and if/then statements. And then what happened to you? Forget about catchin up.. read the last 3 pages and get in here.
Obv-Scum since Benmage says so.

jammer

Il ike him. This guy seems reasonable. Prob-town.

----------

So there you have it.
The scum are in, according to my study...:
Zachrulez
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Mastin
Benmage

And maybe some of my nulls. And dieCephirdie.
Still a broad field, I know.. but it is early in the game still.

[Benmage]

There are multiple reasons. They include his self-removing himself from his own NK speculation. I don’t remember if this was before or after, but I believe someone mentioned he NK speculated before as an opener as scum.

Mainly, I don’t like Mastin’s play.

So there you have it.
The scum are in, according to my study...:
Zachrulez
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Mastin
Benmage

I’m town, take your emotions elsewhere.

[blackcatcontract]

Right... Lot's to digest. I'm not big on making wall-posts because i always seem to mess them up. There was so much in this thread that makes me want to disembowel small stuffed animals. I don't really know where I stand on any of it.
I'm thinking that Mastin isn't scum even though he was lurking. I'm not excusing it as ok, but I think it's his play-style regardless.
Camn's really defensive of Mastin for no reason other than... well... no idea.
I'm going to have to disagree with Sensfan in that it doesn't seem to me like jammer is trying to defend Mastin overly-much.
Battle Mage is... well... he's awesome. He's BM. 'nuff said.
Ben Mage I would like to think is town.
SensFan I would like to think is town, and it makes me happy that he's sort of giving reasons for his votes now.
Who'd I miss...
Oh-rite. VP and KMD. No idea on them.
DDD I think is town because... I 'unno it's a feeling I'm getting from his posts.

Who I think are scum: Camn, ?, ? (, and ? if we have a fourth)
More in-depth post tomorrow. Apparently scheduling a family outing is ok if you don't tell anyone until 5 minutes prior which happens to take up almost all day. *facepalm*

[blackcatcontract]

EBWOP
Whoops forgot Alexhans! I'm thinking he's... =/... scummy town? Erk... I dunno

[Benmage]

Black, did you mean Camn, or Alex is really defensive of Mastin?