Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[saberwolf]

/confirm

[saberwolf]

vote: Toast

I actually love toast, so I'm scared this guy may make me feel too much at ease around him...

[saberwolf]

some games allow you to start when you are just 1 confirm away from an all-confirm

[saberwolf]

I figured it was close enough, so I threw in the first vote

unvote, vote saberwolf

For proving wolves are omnivores due to your love of toast!

LOL

well then, the attack is upon me! I must retaliate. AGHHHHH!!!!!! FOR THE ALAMO....AND TOAST!

[incoming OMGUS vote by me ]

unvote; vote: Devestation

[saberwolf]

unvote

are you sure? I counted 12/13 confirms

[saberwolf]

Mod: vote count please? would like to see what we got so far

[saberwolf]

Doesnt seem that summy to me either.

vote: Far_Cry

I want to be part of the RVS again FC is the best guy in my mind to heckle, as we have tangoed before

[saberwolf]

@ sudai: I simply meant i wanted back in with my vote on somebody, that my vote was also just semi random. Semi random because I have no real reason other than I've scrapped with FC before, so it made a good reason to put my vote on him.

[saberwolf]

I trust donkeyz12212 to distrust toast who will trust himself

but yeah, why even bother bringing it up? At least wait until you see an example of it come up and then bring up the idea [even if it might throw you under the bus, it would still be more valid then].

would like to hear more from Manho and RPN

[saberwolf]

fair enough i suppose. I'm lousy at ice-breakers too -_-

[saberwolf]

enough of this...

FAR CRY! I ACCUSE YOU OF BEING SCUM, BUT I DON'T HAVE A GOOD REASON, OTHER THAN I LIKE TO SEE YOU SQUIRM

Discuss

At this point I'm not too worried about the FC BW...it isn't even at L-3 yet...he's still fine, and it means nothing so far.

FC, help me catch scum, and I will gladly switch my vote

[saberwolf]

FC and I have had some small scuffles in the past...I'm simply trying to keep that little moment of ours alive lol

There's no way he'd make a mistake this early in the game, but I figured I'd might as well start a BW on

someone

, and it's already got one other person on board thus far...

[saberwolf]

well the problem is this game is moving at a very slow pace. I had hoped by creating a BW we would get somewhere, but that seemed to fail.

I'll try a new approach:

toast, why are you so confident about FC being scum? I have 0.1% certainty he is scum..my vote was to create discussion, but I'm not sure what yours was about...
please discuss your reasonings.

unvote; vote: toast

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: sorry, I actually meant PimJ, not toast. got the two mixed up :/

unvote; vote: Pimj

[saberwolf]

[mainly want to know why he put down a vote with almost no explanation]

[saberwolf]

damn it. the scum aren't targeting us..they're targeting the game! the game is dead, thanks to scum! *realization sets in*

ok, so new rule...all scummy players start acting scummy, and all other players start acting pro-town...starting......hold on...wait for it....NOW.

FoS on all people not contributing to the game thus far

[saberwolf]

I'm just gonna dismiss sudai's FoS. I know I haven't done anything scummy. I've had an honest RVS, explained my BW attempt on FC, and attempted to get this game going. It could of been a conversation prompter, but it isn't going to do much in my opinion...five posts later maybe and we'll be back where we started. Later on in the game if FC doesnt force it out of him earlier, I'll have him explain his actions.

[saberwolf]

Saberwolf, I feel like you're trying to give yourself so much credit for appearing town and shoving off any suspicion on yourself to the side. The way you post, your mannerisms at least in the latest posts is a bit sporadic and just suspicious to me.

You say you haven't done anything scummy but just the way you present yourself recently shows that you are in a way.

unvote, vote: saberwolf

of course I'm gonna shove it off to the side...all he did was claim im scummy, with no backing up of it whatsoever. I certainly haven't been supertown either, I haven't achieved much more than pointless chatter, which much of you can't claim any better, if any.
The great thing about this though is I think we are inching our way out of the RVS, if not already out of it.

[saberwolf]

ugh, staying up all night and then going to work sucks....

I'm gonna be V/LA for the next 24 hours...I'm gonna crash right after work's done. I'm leaving for work in like 15 min.

[saberwolf]

Sudai: Not sure what you're playing at, but as a anti-town gamist myself [for the most part], I will respect you and whatever it is you are doing. Carry on, while I continue to pretend that I know how to scumhunt

[saberwolf]

I'm just going to ignore Devestation on this issue because I've already explained how he's wrong and he apparently won't accept it.. I don't know what else I could possibly do.

once again a hypocrite. I did the exact same thing and got attacked for it...only fair I return the favour:

unvote; vote: Sudai

[saberwolf]

I'm just going to ignore Devestation on this issue because I've already explained how he's wrong and he apparently won't accept it.. I don't know what else I could possibly do.

I think I understand what FC means about me and Pimj both being a viable choice. Pretty sure he's talking about a bandwagon choice.

I showed you how you are a hypocrite... outright ignoring a player because they won an argument against you is not going to win townie points.

QFT

[saberwolf]

Sorry, like you donkey, I absolutely suck at the begin part of the gamne. I let others do some form of scum hunting, and when I see something either compleletly legit or bogus, thats when I jump in and start to pick it apart to see if its got some merit. As a lone scumhunter...well, scum would always win

[saberwolf]

BOXMAN IS SCUM.

reason: jumping on the "shitty scumhunters" BW

[saberwolf]

Posts made in total by everyone: 118

Saberwolf: 23 posts, or 19.5% of all posts
Far_Cry: 17 posts, or 14.4% of all posts
Sudai: 14 posts, or 11.9% of all posts
Devestation: 14 posts, or 11.9% of all posts
Donkey: 12 posts, or 10.1% of all posts

Boxman: 8 posts, or 6.8% of all posts
Pimj: 7 posts, or 5.9% of all posts
Santos: 6 posts, or 5.1% of all posts
Toast: 6 posts, or 5.1% of all posts
Reality Fan: 5 posts, or 4.2% of all posts

Manho: 4 posts, or 3.4% of all posts
Jackinthebox: 2 posts, or 1.7% of all posts
RobotPirateNinja: 0 posts, or 0% of all posts

green = most contributive, but not necessarily the most productive
yellow = not as contributive, but still pip up now and then
red = Lurkers, and the most useless with no useful posts whatsoever.

Seeing as we are getting nowhere with this game as of right now, I decided to see if I could cause a little motion, get the ball rolling and such...

I have decided to vote for the lurkers of this game, to see what happens. I would like to see them post more by themselves, but if I have to threaten them with a lynch possibility, so be it. I am assuming Empking is looking for a replacement for RPN, so I'll vote for the one with next lowest posts:

unvote; vote: jackinthebox

[saberwolf]

Saber, that post might not be accurate, because how many of the posts were game related and not just the RVS?

With the exception of mod posts, this post, your latest post, and the post with the analysis, and everybody's confirm post, it is completely accurate. [so that means it also includes random vote, but that's just an extra post per person]

[saberwolf]

This is antitown. This post is totally useless. U cant prove anything by counting people's posts. Obviously the people who are lurking quit or something. U cant only make 2 posts and be "skill lurking" (unless u hav a post restriction; something that is possible here but not likely.)

If u rly want to help town, hunt scum; not post counts.

Anyways, i still believe that Pimj and Sudai are most suspicious, but Pimj needs to speak up more.

You are right, I can't prove anything by number of posts. HOWEVER, you shouldn't quickly discredit the possibility of post restrictions for a role. This is a setup where virtually any role could be involved, so we'll just have to wait and see. How can I hunt town when this game isn't going anywhere? I decided to vote for a lurker, as I don't have any other immediate suspicions yet other than sudai. If sudai does anything that I regard as scummy, I'll consider switching back to him, but I rather see if anything will come out of this.

[saberwolf]

Thank you for doing that Saber.

Yeah I don't find the list useless at all but to base whether someone is scum on how much they post is a bit illogical. It should based on facts/things they say/slip on, etc.

Saber, if lynch was say in the next day or so, who would you ultimately decide on to lynch.

It's really hard to say donkey. I'd maybe say sudai, but I think the reason would be more on feelings towards him than actual scumminess. Dev and I have considered him a hypocrite, but I can't base an entire case off of that.

I don't really have a case on anyone yet, because this game is moving at a snails pace...I dunno, I might even just vote for F_C, simply because he has the most votes right now

For now, I'm going to keep my vote where it is, and hope that our lurkers/inactive come around soon.

[saberwolf]

Far_Cry: I isolated your posts and took a look at them. I didn't like what I saw...here's the run down from my opinion:

FC accuses toast of being scummy
FC doesn't like it when Pimj defends toast, starts to attack him too
FC forgets about toast for the time being, and tunnels on Pimj
Tunneling
More tunneling
and to end it all:

Thoughts on Pimj, guys? And oh yeah, lets not forget Toast.

shocker.

oh, and there were some general comments and other stuff amongst that as well, but I'm addressing the toast/Pimj issue, so I left it out.
I didn't fins toast's post scummy at all either FC, so why the tunneling?

FoS: Far_Cry

[saberwolf]

Devestation: Oh it's fantastic! I only discovered how to do this myself like two days ago.

scroll down....further...further....TOO FAR, DUMBASS! Ok, now a little up...more...more...nope, go back down...down...there. see the submit button at the bottom of the page? See the line that says, Display posts from previous [option1] by [option2] [option3]Go is not implemented yet.

All you gotta do is turn all users into the player of your choice.

[saberwolf]

oh, and press go afterwards.

[saberwolf]

sorry but i just decided that ill keep playing. ill do a reread and post my thoughts tommorow.

-_-


haha at boxman though.

[saberwolf]

Far_Cry: I isolated your posts and took a look at them. I didn't like what I saw...here's the run down from my opinion:

FC accuses toast of being scummy
FC doesn't like it when Pimj defends toast, starts to attack him too
FC forgets about toast for the time being, and tunnels on Pimj
Tunneling
More tunneling
and to end it all:

Thoughts on Pimj, guys? And oh yeah, lets not forget Toast.

shocker.

oh, and there were some general comments and other stuff amongst that as well, but I'm addressing the toast/Pimj issue, so I left it out.
I didn't fins toast's post scummy at all either FC, so why the tunneling?

FoS: Far_Cry

I'm not tunneling. I only forgot about Toast becuase he went inactive.

You on the other hand, are not hunting scum at all. You are hunting invisible forces, things that mean nothing to the game. Stop making your smart-ass comments and start helping town for once (if u rly are town.)

Please elaborate on this...what "invisible forces" are you talking about? And according to the others, I did help the town. Not a whole lot, but it was still something. Also, I don't really think you've posted much more than me. All I would have to do to match you is ask others what they thought about Far_Cry.

@Donkeyz, I remember a while back (at page 2 or 3), you said town should be worried about scum playing super-townie. I think u should be very worried now.

Why is that? I was pretty sure that was why everybody is too scared to do anything, and as far as I see as of right now, nobody is super-townie.

Anyway, I like the list idea. Scum are more likely to lurk than town, in my opinion.

Not true. Don't forget about post restrictions. And also, the people who have been lurking (at least most of them) don't look like they're purposely lurking.

Even so, there are still SOME among them who ARE purposely lurking. You admit to that above ^^. Also, find me a pro-town role that has post-restrictions? They're all usually anti-town that do as far as I'm aware.

Again guys this is the problem. People are hunting lurkers in this game, not scum. Stop.

How are you to know that the lurkers are not scum...unless of course, you being scum, already know that the lurkers do not fall in your faction. Another theory is that some of those lurkers ARE in your faction, and are nervous that my list could encourage others to vote for your scumbuddies.

IGMEOY: F_C

[saberwolf]

Can i get a replacement please? I only want to do one game at a time right know

you suck.

I'm currently in 25, and I'm managing just fine

[saberwolf]

Can i get a replacement please? I only want to do one game at a time right know

you suck.

I'm currently in 25, and I'm managing just fine

on the other hand, this ismy first game. also i was wondering if anyone could ask me any questions, because otherwise i dont know where to start.

unless you're talking about "chronologically" first, this is not your first game. I am in other games with you as well. For instance, you are currently at heads with tajo in Pie E7 over which one of you is the real cop.

[saberwolf]

sorry

[saberwolf]

vote: pimj

, he is too defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

As somebody who hasn't really been active here, I'd like to see more from you than just simply this. Please try to elaborate and make your own individual case on the matter.

everyone: we suck. we really do. Have we even managed to make a BW for anyone at this point? Highest amount of votes I see for anyone is two. Let's get more active please, stop lurking, and lets get some discussion going so that we can progress with the game.

Pimj: what do you have to say in regards to these current attacks on you?

Far_Cry and manho: If we were to lynch Pimj today and he were to flip town, what would that say about toast to you? What about if we lynched toast, does that take some of the pressure off of Pimj?

Far_Cry: still waiting for some answers to my questions.

Sudai: Does my bum look fat in this?

Toast: Can I nibble you? Just a little bit, I promise....

Donkey: Does anybody stand out more than the others? Why?

Sudai: Are you ready yet to explain your thoughts on Far_cry and myself yet?

jackinthebox: why the sudden change of heart? What inspired you to keep playing?

manho: why is it only now you start to post?

Toast: What are your thoughts on Pimj coming to your defence?

that's all i got for now.

[saberwolf]

Ha! was waiting for him to say this:

Q2: I rly believe u are trying to act super-town.

So he thinks I'm the super-town player. However, Far_Cry also said I haven't contributed anything to the game....so therefore, I'm supertownie [or trying to be as he carefully put it] because I haven't contributed anything? Start making sense.

we're actually starting to make headway with the game...think it's time for a good ol' BW:

unvote; vote: Far_Cry

because I really didn't like your last post. Answers to Q3 is virtually nothing, you are evading providing me with an answer. Bitching about my playing style isn't exactly helpful to the town either. Lastly, as boxman put it, undermining pressure is scummy.

[saberwolf]

Hi Chaco, welcome to the game

[saberwolf]

haha...FC, you THINK you know my playing style, but if you knew anything about me, it's that I'm a meta evader. So think twice about your assumptions. However you'd be correct in assuming that I am most likely not scum, so congrats there. Unfortunately, you cannot celebrate that yet until my death or the game being over confirms it. Anyways, as you brought up in your quote wall of me, I said that if you scumhunt well enough, I'd take my vote off you and focus on someone else...so far you seem to be not scumhunting. To show you how bad it is, you aren't even scumhunting by trying to show that I'm scum. You've been trying to show everyone that I'm a moron by showing them how much of an imbecile I am through the contents of my posts. When you get back on the right track, let me know.

and welcome to the game MSH

[saberwolf]

@Saberwolf and Far_Cry. I would like to hear your opinions on the Random Voting Stage. What is it? Why does it exist? How should people behave during the RVS? When does it end?

@Saberwolf. Please give me your definition of lurking. Do you believe lurking is scummy? Why (not)?

@Saberwolf, responding to #148. You are aware this is a normal game? Thatwould mean no abnormal rules/roles, and therefore no postrestrictions.

Really? Ok then, thanks for the clear up there.

Opinions follow when I've read the entire thread.

This is not helping town in any way MSH, but just to humour you:

RVS is a random voting stage, where players choose a person to vote for as possible scum. The votes usually fall under random, policy, or a mixture of both. It exists because none of the town know 100% for sure who scum truly is, therefore they need to take a stab in the dark so to speak to get reactions to their votes and get the game started off. If it didn't exist, there'd be no game.

Lurking to me is defined as:

1. People notice that you are posting in other games, but leaving their specific game uncommented on.

2. anything more than 36-48 hours of inactivity

3. There is also active lurking, where a person posts non-game or minimal-game content [also known as fluff] to avoid playing the game.

lurking can be and not be scummy. There is no one size fits all rule. It depends on the player

and the circumstances.

now, MSH: how did these questions/answers help your scumhunting?

Although I do think a good point was raised. There is a lot of tension between F_C and myself, and not much elsewhere. The banter between me and F_C is distracting me and possibly others from focusing on others. As an act of faith towards F_C, so that I can chase other people for a while:

unvote

Now time to see what comes around the corner for us next.

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: also, RVS is important because you can sense sometimes the genuine from the BS explanations for each vote. Looking for RVS patterns can be useful sometimes too. For the most part however, I don't think too much can be read from RVS alone though. RVS + other stuff yes.

[saberwolf]

I specifically pointed something out about you in my post. Either you're just not reading, or I dunno what. Also, I commented on it to. The case on Far Cry is dumb at best. Saber is so wishy washy that it's hysterical, so I don't see why you are basing him as leader of the town. His posts are lackluster at best, and FC has contributed so much more than him.

That's mainly the reason my vote is on Saber.

the funny part is, I'm going to QFT this

All the more reason why I ask myself why I got labeled as pro-town. I didn't even label myself that. I think the F_C case sucks too, but there was not much else to go on at that point, that and the fact that we entered a little spat.

I'm having troubles getting internet time, so I will do my best to respond with stuff soon. Announcing a possible V/LA till monday.

[saberwolf]

Ok so donkey, I read your one post, and I'd have to say I'd vote you. One, because you were the first person to pop into mind as I was reading your post, and two [more importantly] you seem to be trying to play the town up a little, and by this I mean you are starting to defend other people or speak on their behalf [MHS] and you try to side with everyone so that you can be in everyone's good books, but end up contradicting yourself because of it. A good instance would be that you claim me and FC fighting is probably town vs. town, but then join everyone else in claiming we're probably both scum, and that FC is scummier. Btw, setting up lynches in advance is not pro-town in a game with night phases, it helps scum know who and who not to NK. Also, I think that while I thought MHS's post was anti-town [although now I realise the merit to it], this is definitely antitown. You are gathering seperations and feelings from players, making it easy for scum to analyze and twist to their own uses. Hypothetically, I could be scum, looking at what someone posted, and if I see two or more people agreeing to vote for the same person, I could start driving a case and a BW on that select person, knowing that the BW would catch on pretty well. That's how i see it anyways...anyone want to put a pro-town light on it?

[saberwolf]

Note to self: comment and reply to post 238 on monday. Do not have the time to do it now

Nice post MHS. I will respond in due time with my rebuttal.

[saberwolf]

Posts made in total by everyone: 118

Saberwolf: 23 posts, or 19.5% of all posts
Far_Cry: 17 posts, or 14.4% of all posts
Sudai: 14 posts, or 11.9% of all posts
Devestation: 14 posts, or 11.9% of all posts
Donkey: 12 posts, or 10.1% of all posts

Boxman: 8 posts, or 6.8% of all posts
Pimj: 7 posts, or 5.9% of all posts
Santos: 6 posts, or 5.1% of all posts
Toast: 6 posts, or 5.1% of all posts
Reality Fan: 5 posts, or 4.2% of all posts

Manho: 4 posts, or 3.4% of all posts
Jackinthebox: 2 posts, or 1.7% of all posts
RobotPirateNinja: 0 posts, or 0% of all posts

green = most contributive,

but not necessarily the most productive

yellow = not as contributive, but still pip up now and then
red = Lurkers, and the most useless with no useful posts whatsoever.

Seeing as we are getting nowhere with this game as of right now, I decided to see if I could cause a little motion, get the ball rolling and such...

I have decided to vote for the lurkers of this game, to see what happens. I would like to see them post more by themselves, but if I have to threaten them with a lynch possibility, so be it. I am assuming Empking is looking for a replacement for RPN, so I'll vote for the one with next lowest posts:

unvote; vote: jackinthebox

please note the bolded parts. The first part was mainly talking about me, as I recognized that just because I had the most posts didn't mean I was the towniest player. Also, in the second part, I talked about how instead of voting for the inactive, I decided to vote for a lurker. With this I hope I have debunked the "he tried to make himself look good" and "he only votes inactives" argument.

[saberwolf]

MHS: i considered him a lurker for the reason that I knew for sure he knew the game was running and had actually made some posts.

also, I think you're either incorrect or mistyped. FF claimed that sudai voted for Pimj, and then you accuse FF of saying sudai FoSed Pimj, which is incorrect.

[saberwolf]

i just noticed out of all of boxman's posts, only one is considered scumhunting. The rest is him reminding us he doesn't like Far_Cry

FoS: Boxman

[saberwolf]

hi wonakloverlf...

who are you replacing?

[saberwolf]

FoS: wonakloverlf

for randomly showing up in our game

[saberwolf]

@flave flare A death in the family, a certain ongoing game

You're not allowed to discuss ongoing games.

[saberwolf]

It is also likely that you are scum.

It is also likely that you are scum bussing scum. So that should be a valid reason to vote you, right?

No, it might be a not very good reason to vote me if he flips scum because there are better people to lynch. @donkeyz01749182072p301-70437946264471464129642 you have repeatedly said you don't buy the case on far_cry.

no offense, but who are you to decide whether we think you are lower on the scum list than others?

[saberwolf]

You don't lynch someone because they are attack another player unless that player is scum. Notes that saberwolf is defending far_cry

how am I defending F_C? I simply said that it is up to us to determine where we think you stand on the most likely scum list. I never mentioned him at all...if anything, I'd be defending Donkey. What is up to YOU is to bring along a case showing US why YOU think a certain person is scummier than you and should be brought to attention. You don't simply say don't lynch me cause I don't think I'm as scummy as others.

[saberwolf]

stop talking about this and focus on the game at hand ^^^

[saberwolf]

One thing I've noticed is that I have 4 people are not only voting for me, but literally

hate

me:
Devestation
Flava Flave
Pyro
Boxman

What was up with that? It sounds so much like a gang-up; the people above said "Far_Cry is scum." They were absolutely sure, it looks like. Yet, they don't give sufficient evidence. I've asked for only 1 thing this whole game: for people to provide GOOD reasons for voting me. Nobody above this so. That means, someone on the wagon HAS to be scum.

This caught my attention, and I have been pondering it...

Do you think it's possible one or more of them have roles where they win when you are lynched before they are, or something along those lines where you are part of the condition? I have to agree that for the most part, other than FF I think, the cases made are rather weak. Pyro didn't really put up any case, boxman simply just said he hates you, and I don't remember dev's argument, will have to go back and check that out.

[saberwolf]

define "chainsaw defense"

not sure I understand

[saberwolf]

who did I attack?

[saberwolf]

I like this analysis above ^^

I finally have a place to put my vote:

vote: Pyromaniac

[saberwolf]

nah, dev is right. I only voted him so that he had a reason to OMGUS me.

he is actually providing some good insight, and if we keep him around a little longer, we may get some good out of it if he's pro-town, or possibly some ties if he's anti-town.

unvote

[saberwolf]

I must apologize for my absence...settling into school and taking care of the more important stuff got in the way.

So I'm back, and I plan on doing some analysis shortly.

For now at quick glance, I'm going to have to side with MSH. I agree with most of what he says, and I too think the F_C case(s) are too weak for a day 1 lynch.

manho looks genuine, trying to sort through the quotes and pick pieces out of them. Pyro, on the other hand, seems a little more...shady? I get a bad vibe from some of his posts.

I'm not entirely down with a boxman lynch yet either...I tend to be one of the guys who second guesses all of his decisions, so I kinda am trying to find some post somewhere that will give me a reasonable assurance that I'm voting for the right reasons, not just because there's an available BW to jump on.

Dev my friend, you seem to be standing out to me as a pro-town player...not completely sure why, am hoping my analysis will dig into that. Lately though I feel you havent brought as much to the table.

Donkey...I'm not sure with you. For the most part I read you as town, but the whole super-town issue [as well as labelling yourself supertown] has got me keeping my eye on you.

Anybody else I havent mentioned...well, I'll get around to you, but post some more!

[saberwolf]

Here's the problem: you're hunting for information, not scum. Which is why if you don't find me (or Boxman) scummy, you shouldn't vote. You may claim that information will be useful for town,

but lynching town is even better, right?

um....no? scumslip?

[saberwolf]

I apologise, I should add post #380 to post #385. Veiled chainsaw defence means making note of the fact that the person that you are protecting is kind of scummy.

nah, dev is right. I only voted him so that he had a reason to OMGUS me.

he is actually providing some good insight, and if we keep him around a little longer, we may get some good out of it if he's pro-town, or possibly some ties if he's anti-town.

unvote

i will keep FC instead.

i'm just speaking in terms of "contribution". saber said pyro(?) provided some good insight, but i think the insight is illogical. FC has more logical posts. that's why i'll keep FC instead of pyro(?) in terms of "contribution".

I never said his content was good, just the insight. I personally think pyro would be the best lynch if it came down to straight up information, but I'm not a big fan of lynches like that, as it lets the other people skim by with no fear of being targetted, as it promotes lurking.

[saberwolf]

I made an actual mistake with those posts, Boxman. If your going to keep pursuing em, I'll replace out. I'm tired of the same old bullshit every game.

right here

Dev looks like he's folding in to pressure, and seems angry at being targeted

vote: Devestation

[saberwolf]

I sure do hope the cult recruits you. I think you may be a jester. =)

I didn't like seeing this post, and apparantly neither did others. When confronted over it:

Jester talk is bad, Pyro.

/facepalm lyncher talk is the same thing as jester talk. Notice how I said the thing about the cult? I was fairly clearly being sarcastic.

To be honest, it is not clear at all IMHO. a =) doesn't imply sarcasm at all, but a or a would of done the job. This could potentially be a scum slip [I'm assuming cults are anti-town, right?]. either that or an attempt at softclaiming.

Then this occurs:

Who says there are 2 scum? I could see a cop + doc and 3 scum, maybe one scum power role.

Innocent enough, but could also be a softclaim.

Or 2 scum and a sk.

Why are you trying to figure out role setups on day 1? At least wait until day 2 before making assumptions. Once again, I feel this may be softclaiming or rolefishing.

in conclusion

IGMEOY: Pyromaniac

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: to be clear, obviously Pyro can't be softclaiming for all of those roles, but maybe by mentioning enough of them he is able to casually slip his own role into the converstion, like SK or cult.

I have a feeling Pyro is a VIP. What his alignment may be, is yet to be determined.

[saberwolf]

sorry bogre, but I'm gonna call you up on this and call it crap.

I haven't done any BW hopping. The only two BWs I hopped on were Sudai's and Devestation's. Sudai for being a hypocrite of his own game rules, and dev for apparantly folding to pressure and appearing slightly anti-town with his most recent post. [added on to the rest of his posting of course]. In fact, I have started more BWs than anyone else here, so I can't be accused of cheap shoting other players by hopping on their wagons.

This is an open setup. Anything can happen in these games. I tend to be more susceptible to persuasion and deceit in ordinary games, but at least then I have an idea of the set-up. In a game like this, all that has to go out the window. I do my best not to buddy up with anyone, but will defend them if I feel the attacker has made a poor case. I tend to keep my vote very conservative, and try to make sure I vote because

I

have come to a conclusion that somebody has done something to deserve my vote. I may come to a conclusion using other people's information, but I won't use it as a cop-out.

Look at all my games, I constantly fluff, regardless of alignment. I'm also interested in hearing what info I gave that's distracting. I don't know why people claim I'm trying to come across as superpro-town. I myself have posted a few times that I don't deem myself as superpro-town. I am simply doing my best to figure out this day 1 mess on an unbiased basis, and cause of that, I tend to waver when it comes to my votes and ideas on people, because you can never be fully sure, and circumstances can sometimes change.

Looking at the others, other than santos [I don't think anyone else has mentioned him] you seem to be regurgitating what everyone else in this game has already said.

I notice Far_Cry did not make your scum list, even though most of the town seems to think so. Why is that? Who in your opinion is the most town and why? Also, please show me where I align myself with anyone in this game.

now that business part's out of the way...welcome to the game bogre

[saberwolf]

sorry bogre, but I'm gonna call you up on this and call it crap.

I haven't done any BW hopping. The only two BWs I hopped on were Sudai's and Devestation's. Sudai for being a hypocrite of his own game rules, and dev for apparantly folding to pressure and appearing slightly anti-town with his most recent post. [added on to the rest of his posting of course]. In fact, I have started more BWs than anyone else here, so I can't be accused of cheap shoting other players by hopping on their wagons.

This is an open setup. Anything can happen in these games. I tend to be more susceptible to persuasion and deceit in ordinary games, but at least then I have an idea of the set-up. In a game like this, all that has to go out the window. I do my best not to buddy up with anyone, but will defend them if I feel the attacker has made a poor case. I tend to keep my vote very conservative, and try to make sure I vote because

I

have come to a conclusion that somebody has done something to deserve my vote. I may come to a conclusion using other people's information, but I won't use it as a cop-out.

Look at all my games, I constantly fluff, regardless of alignment. I'm also interested in hearing what info I gave that's distracting. I don't know why people claim I'm trying to come across as superpro-town. I myself have posted a few times that I don't deem myself as superpro-town. I am simply doing my best to figure out this day 1 mess on an unbiased basis, and cause of that, I tend to waver when it comes to my votes and ideas on people, because you can never be fully sure, and circumstances can sometimes change.

Looking at the others, other than santos [I don't think anyone else has mentioned him] you seem to be regurgitating what everyone else in this game has already said.

I notice Far_Cry did not make your scum list, even though most of the town seems to think so. Why is that? Who in your opinion is the most town and why? Also, please show me where I align myself with anyone in this game.

now that business part's out of the way...welcome to the game bogre

[saberwolf]

sorry, my comp screwed up and double posted.

[saberwolf]

ok, so I think I may be missing something. How can we determine what is and isn't normal? Isn't the point of an open game to not know what roles there could be, using the name of the game as a guide, as well as the progress of games and those lynched?

[saberwolf]

Finally, someone with a good head on their shoulders.

Once again, welcome to the game Bogre, I feel we'll make some progress with you around

I didn't think Far_Cry was scum either. His defence was unwaveringly consistant, and like you said, wasn't panicing as much as scum most likely would. I feel the need to clarify the BW hopping thing. What I was saying is that never did I jump on the BW that seemed the easiest. If I were to take the easy road, Far_Cry would of been lynched by now. I've been on two real BWs, but neither can be classified as scummy. Hope that makes things clearer.

[saberwolf]

ok, so I think I may be missing something. How can we determine what is and isn't normal? Isn't the point of an open game to not know what roles there could be, using the name of the game as a guide, as well as the progress of games and those lynched?

No. Open is you know what is in the setup. This is a normal. cult=not normal.

really? oops

wait, but dont some open games have disclosed setups? I'm confused.

[saberwolf]

Disclose=open.

ok, i thought so, so this could be one of those.

I'm not about to be making any guesses on who's what then, other than I think pyro is a VIP.

[saberwolf]

Because I just hammered I believe.

Turns out he's right.

I really don't understand the new Devestation BW honestly.

But i don't think at this point, there' snay way to convince people to switch from Devestation to anyone else.

Now at least we know who targetted Devestation initially and use that as information.

vote: Devestation

The bolded part screams out mislynch to me. Donkey is ready to attack the first couple of people on Dev's BW come day 2, which makes it sound as if he knows Dev is gonna flip town. Only way he'd know that is if him and dev are masons, or if donkey is scum. I also don't like Donkey's reason for voting at all. We have already seen people fight for Far_Cry's case and his BW got derailed, would it hurt you to try it for Dev? I def dont think theyre masons, cause no mason would hammer his own partner, so I'm thinking Donkey may be scum trying to set up tomorrow's lynches.

Donkey: what do we do then if dev turns up scum? are you gonna go after the last two people? not exactly a good strategy by you there.

[saberwolf]

all I can say is...wtf? lol

Interesting developments...thing was I was actually going to attack pyro this day and try to get him lynched for all of the softclaims and such based on the results of the night phase, but apparantly he saw it coming and committed suicide

rereading as well.

[saberwolf]

1. Rising(1) - realityfan
2. Santos (0)
3. Devestation (4) - Santos, Michelsabreheart, Far Cry, Manho
4. Far_Cry (4) - Flava Flave , Boxman, Rising, Pyromaniac,
5. RealityFan (0)
6. Flava Flave(0) -
7. Boxman (0) -
8. Michelsabreheart (0) -
9. Saberwolf (0) -
10. manho (0) -
11. Donkeyz (0) -
12. Pyromaniac (0)
13. Deathnote(0) -
Not voting (4) - Sabrewolf, Deathnote, Donkeyz, Devestation

7 to lynch

do you think this clears Far_Cry, given that 2 scum were on his BW?

also, it's very interesting that we managed to lose 2 goons and 1 VT in just one night...thoughts?

@ goons: pwnage

[saberwolf]

vote:Donkey

For suspicious hammering

[saberwolf]

unvote

i just found a post where pyro is gunning for Far_Cry and donkey

could be bussing, but for now I'm taking it off on those grounds.

[saberwolf]

I'm scum because of my "suspicious" hammer on Devestation last round.

I didn't give Devestation time to "role-claim" when he had all the time leading up to his hammer to do so. I think that's a bad argument against me.

What else does people have? If scum are looking for a scapegoat, they are obviously looking towards my direction.

You can't deny that both scum who were NK'ed both thought I was scum as well. They both analyzed me as someone who is suspicious. I can understand if one person wants to bus me but both scum? Where's the explanation in that? They both weren't expecting to be NK'ed I bet so what were the chances that they both wanted to bus the same "scum partner?" Where is the logic in that if you are scum to have your allies bus the same person?

It's very plausable, and the fact that you claim it isn't is slightly scummy to me.

1. you guys most likely have a QT, and have discussed this beforehand that you are all gonna bus each other.

2. if there is indeed two scum factions, it'd make sense for either

a) both of them being on the same team and attacking you, thinking that they are either the only faction, or that you are an anti-town player that did not work with their goals.

b) One of them was on the other faction, while the other one was on your faction and was bussing you. The fact that they both bussed is coincidental.

of course there also is

3. you are a VT

I'm not here to attack you on whether you are scum or not as of this moment, but to address that nothing is too stupid or too weird to be considered. Now to be clear, I realise we could say the same about Far_Cry, but the difference between him and you is one was just a bunch of talk, while the other had actual votes placed against him.

I would like to know why you hammered devestation...was it for the day to end or because you actually deemed him scummy? What stood out to you? Why didn't you vote for him earlier?

[saberwolf]

Also, regarding your roleclaim part where "he could of claimed anytime", you don't usually claim until L-2 at least, and if I recall correctly, he was quickhammered before he even knew he was at L-2, so he didn't get much of a chance to claim.

[saberwolf]

ok, so you admit that you hammered, not because you thought devestation was scum, but because you wanted the day to end and simply jumped on an easy BW.

That's very anti-town, if not scummy, of you.

For the most part, we have all gone against a BW at some point or another, so why couldn't you do so? Taking extra time to make sure we lynch scum and not just push an easy BW should be the greater concern.

I've made up my mind on the matter.

vote: donkeyz12212

[saberwolf]

donkey is now at L-1....do you wish to claim donkey?

[saberwolf]

Hurray for another goon death, but holy crap, we are losing people fast!

That's three goons gone now. Seeing as there were three kills last night, there is definitely still two killing factions out there. I believe we are looking at one of the following possibilities:

1 more scum, 1 SK, 1 vig
1 more scum, 1 SK
1 more scum, 1 vig
1 SK, 1 vig
2 SKs

I'm going to say that I think it's one of the last two, just because if you think about it, if it weren't for the fact that mafia has been dying every night, we would of lost by now. I don't think the mod would be that bastardish?
In any case, we are at mylo. Time for yet another re-read, but as it stands Far_Cry is town to me and manho is scum.

[saberwolf]

4. Far_Cry
5. Xofelf

RealityFan

9. Saberwolf
10. manho
13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1
12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia

- Killed Night 1
1. Rising

Jackinthebox

-

Mafia

- Killed Night 1
11. Donkeyz12212 - Vannilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos -

Mafia

Goon

- Killed night 2
6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2
7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

Roles Going Out
_________________

I think I have found something. Notice that two of them say mafia, but one of them says mafia goon. Two teams of scum I believe I have just confirmed. That means we have one mafia left, as well as a vig/SK, and 3 town roles.

[saberwolf]

Santos: [08] Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. Not even a “Bah!” post. Just, just stop. Fingers off the keys. You're no longer breathing. Save it for after the game is over.

[saberwolf]

I find this next reply would work best in a Far_Cry quote:

Busy with school guys. I'll try to post as much as I can in the little time I have.

that's thoughtful of you

i think we should have a mass roleclaim first.

I don't think so. Why do you want this?

I concur with this

Since no one is wanting to be active in this thread, I
will try to get things started.

I am a VT, vanilla townie.

We can not mislynch today as tonight could very well be the last night. With another goon dead, we could be down to two kills but that is uncertain at the moment. Like I said earlier,

Vig

should claim as this might be our last day phase depending. If you do not wish to claim, then simply do not kill tonight as one kill tonight will ensure we have one last shot tomorrow to catch scum. 1 lynch today, 1 kill tonight, 1 last lynch tomorrow. You following me?

You know it's a vig how?

Personally, this claim doesn't exactly help you. In fact, I can't even believe it. I'll try to post my thoughts on this later.

@Saber: Why are you so interested in role right now? You shouldn't care.

We all should care. Think about it...we are wondering what roles there possibly could be, and it's come down to the possibilities of 2 anti-town, or 1 anti-town and 1 pro-town when it comes to NKs. If I was correct in identifying that there are two scum pairs, that increases the chances of there being a second anti-town NKer. The possibilities were:

1 scum, 1 vig
1 scum, 1 SK
1 SK, 1 vig
2 SKs
2 vigs

the odds of them both being anti-town were 40%. Confirming one of them is scum increases it to 50%

For the moment, I can't trust anyone. I would find Saberwolf likely town; however, I don't like his rolefishing.

There is no rolefishing involved. It's not like I'm trying to convince you to claim cop, and no scum is gonna be stupid enough to claim at this point, or at any point for the matter. It was simply setup analysis

Xofelf needs to come down here and post so I can get a real read on him. For now, though, I think he's town.

Xofelf's name is Erica, which is a girls name, and she is indeed female I do agree that we need to see more from her though, as I feel she is lurking, or at least not contributing as much.

Manho is an obvious suspect now. I need to go back and look at his posts so I can get an obvious read on him.

Um, if he's an obvious suspect, wouldn't you already have an obvious read...you know, to make him suspect?

Finally, I don't like Deathnote's claim. No else but him claimed, I don't think they should yet. However, I do agree with him that vig should claim sometime today, and more importantly, hold on to your night kill on else you are 100% certain that the person you are killing is scum.

I disagree with part of this. If Vig [if there is one] claimed and we mislynched, scum would just NK the Vig, and we'd be down to three, and be right back to where we started, with no real clears. In this case though I agree that Vig shouldn't use their NK, as there is a 66% chance of scum win upon death. Therefore I think it's best to wait until tomorrow to have a Vig claim if there is one. If we lynch scum today it won't matter, and worst case scenario Vig is NKed and we're at 1 scum and 2 town anyways.

I'll try to do the things I said above when I have time.

[saberwolf]

I need to make a correction.


I just realised that 2 Vigs cannot occur, or else the game would have already been over, so it's 50% either way, my bad.

[saberwolf]

Hi... gonna do some reading here quick, anything anyone wants me to focus on please say so now.

Oh and just in case:

Unvote

Elf's only post.

We'd like you to give us your thoughts on who's left please.

[saberwolf]

so I just got my power back, I had a temp short out and i had to find someone left in the building to open my roommates room to reset the router (its reading week and everyone's gone)

so I'll comment on this shortly

[saberwolf]

I will be doing an ISO on everybody left, one at a time

RealityFan/Xofelf

ISO 0: confirming into the game, definite scumtell

ISO 1: votes for donkey, the reason being for "delaying the game", as being the last to confirm. An honest enough RVS vote.

ISO 2-6: stays by the sidelines, making the odd comment or asking the odd question, but otherwise does nothing to scumhunt.

ISO 7: this one is interesting. He asks jack a couple of seemingly innocent questions. However, we now know that jack was mafia when he died night 1. Also if you look at the type of questions asked, they are the kind of questions that help scum more than town.

Who do you think is the most scummy so far?

Who do we BW?

Do you think it's a good idea to go after the lurkers?

Is it safer to BW a lurker or should we try to mislynch an active?

What's your opinion on FC and saber going after each other?

Is this something we can use to our advantage?

ISO 8: votes for jack, his reason being jack is actively lurking.

ISO 9-10: comments on other players behaviour.

ISO 11: claims to believe Far_Cry and Saberwolf are town, and is suspicious of santos joining on the jack BW. IMO this means one of two things:

1. RF is town and was good at picking up scum

2. RF is scum, and there is two scum factions. [this is not including the SK/vig possibility] RF was bussing his partner and didn't like it when Santos jumped on, and got lucky with the accusation.

granted, there could be two scum factions if it was option number 1 as well, but If it was number two we'd be more certain of more than one scum team, or else itd be an extreme third scenario of super bussing.

ISO 12: another comment

ISO 0: Elf says hi and unvotes

ISO 1: Elf apologizes and says she'll post later

Without comparing to the others, I would have no problem placing a vote on elf. Both of them have been active lurkers themselves, and have done no actual scumhunting what so ever. The fact that RF's only vote was a scum hit is a null tell at best, because the BW never went through and there could be two scum factions. I feel that unless Elf starts posting a lot of good pro-town content, she could be today's lynch. Taking her to the next day could make her a huge liability. If for example it was 3 players left and elf and manho were the other two, I'd have a real hard time determining who to vote for, as one is suppossedly the scummiest, while the other one has nothing to say she's town or scum.


moving onto Deathnote next

[saberwolf]

RPN/Chaco/DeathNote

ISO 0: confirming, misspelling of the word is known to be a scumtell

ISO 0: confirming, I already used my confirming joke of the post.

ISO 1-2: basic comments on how he'll catch up.

ISO 3-4: Votes for saberwolf, and explains its due to his "wishy-washyness", and the fact that he's not contributing as much as Far_Cry at that certain point in time.

ISO 5-6: says he's not taking Far_Cry's side in anything, but is voting for me

ISO 7: Get's called up on as placing a "BS vote", donkey claimed that Chaco's reason for voting Saberwolf wasn't good enough. When asked for why it is good enough, Chaco simply says the common assumption that the one of the two who makes worse posts is scum is good enough for him.

ISO 8-16: All are one-liners that don't help us at all [a bit hypocritical there right after voting saberwolf]. Finally asks to be replaced out.

ISO 0: Unvotes, claims to be catching up

ISO 1: Gives his basic overview of the game. What I don't like about this posts is he claims "everybody seems scummy to him" He does briefly mention Far_Cry and MSH as possible scumbuddies though. We know this to be false now though. Kind of a scummy post overall just for the reason that he doesnt give out anything useful to aid us in scumhunting, as he should have at least some idea who seems scummier than others.

ISO 2: Not a big fan of this post either. The whole time he talks to Devestation, about how he could either be frustrated townie or scum. It sounds like DeathNote is trying to give himself a back door for after the mislynch, so he could say "well I figured he could be townie, but i decided he was scum, I'm not to blame"

ISO 3: votes for devestation

ISO 4-5: comments, nothing of interest.

ISO 6-7: Starts speculating about the role set-up for the game. I'm left scratching my head at these two posts, cause I'm not sure if it's just townie musings and then realised that he left out other options, or if he's scum who realised he may have slipped and tried to correct it later on. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as I have done it before myself. To be honest, there isn't too much I can attack him on, cause of the way it was said. A lot of thinks, and suggests, were used, so there wasn't a sound of certainty like a scum might, and at least he said vig first and not SK, or I'd have went down on him harder for it.

ISO 8: Hammers Donkey

ISO 9: speculates about roles again

ISO 10-12: Claims VT

ISO 13: Votes Far_Cry for no reason, but I assume it was to generate discussion

A bit better than elf in posting, but can't say makes up in scumhunting. Nothing here has helped lead to scum, and more time has been spent role speculating and role claiming than anything. Once again I must point out I don't like how DeathNote had no scumlist of his own. Taking no sides is almost as bad as not posting at all.

Moving onto Manho now

[saberwolf]

Manho

ISO 0: Confirming. It's so normal and uncreative, it reeks of scum

ISO 1-5: basically Manho lurking. He manages to be V/LA and sick for 19 days. Kinda suspicious. I don't wanna attack his honesty or integrity here, but it is a mafia game, and scum have to lie.

ISO 6: Votes for Pimj (MSB), for the chainsaw defence of toast on Far_Cry, and claims Pimj is too defensive of toast.

ISO 7: When asked by Saberwolf to elaborate more, Manho goes a bit more into detail why he thinks Toast and Pimj are probably scum. Also goes into detail on why he was gone for so long. It's one of those stories that's detailed enough to be true, so I won't push him there.

ISO 8: Manho gives a list of the players and how he feels about each one. Now, based on other games I've played in, I've always been told that lists like that are anti-town, as they help scum more than town, and it's best to just simply list your top 2-3 scum suspects. Therefore, I'm going to say this was anti-town of you. As for the accuracy of your list, I'd say it was accurate enough, given that it was mainly analyzing attitudes and not behaviours. Where I disagree with you is with RF [I don't see how he was pro-town at all] and Sudai, where you don't happen to think he's scummy by the way you worded it.

ISO 9-10: mildly attacks Devestation over Sudai. Doesn't look good that Sudai flipped scum, but then again the defense of Sudai was not strong enough to link them together, mainly because Sudai wan't the main concern, he was just referenced in the discussion.

ISO 11: comment, welcomes replacements

ISO 12: accuses toast and pimj again

ISO 13: no idea to be honest, I'll let you unravel it

ISO 14-22: a fair amount of talking, analyzing the actions of others, asking the odd question. Pro-town posts here, actual scumhunting going on and I like it. The only thing that bothers me is how manho will speak for others and defend them before they get a chance to defend themselves.

ISO 23: votes for Pyromaniac, reason being he keeps trying to find the easy lynch.

ISO 24-27: seeks pyro lynch, defends Far_Cry

ISO 28-32: more defending of Far_Cry

ISO 33: welcomes DeathNote

ISO 34: comments

ISO 35: Is brought up to light on the grounds that he is found contridicting himself is regards to pro-town = scummy, trying to look town isnt scummy. Also liking Flava Flaves case against Far_Cry to no longer liking it. Also called upon his line where he says he'll act scummy to catch scum. Others think its an excuse so they don't lynch him as scum. It is a possibility.

ISO 36-40: small discussion comments, nothing too important

ISO 41-43: Talks about roleclaiming, claims VT

ISO 44: says he'll wait for elf...how romantic...

ISO 45: reveals he'll lynch anyone who does not claim VT

ISO 46: defends himself from a mild attack on Far_Cry

ISO 47: agrees discussion needs to pick up

ISO 48: asks DeathNote why the vote on Far_Cry

Does some good scumhunting midgame, but has nothing to show for begingame and seemed scummier near the endgame. I like how Manho stuck up for Far_Cry, but some part of me feels Manho may have went a little too far with it, to the point where it doesn't feel genuine and could be scum buddying up for a loyal non-voter. Overall I'd have to say I feel better about manho than either Xofelf or DeathNote, but we will see as the day goes on.


Moving on to Far_Cry

[saberwolf]

Here's the problem: you're hunting for information, not scum. Which is why if you don't find me (or Boxman) scummy, you shouldn't vote. You may claim that information will be useful for town,

but lynching town is even better, right?

um....no? scumslip?

[saberwolf]

bah, meant to make the above part of my ISO. anyways it falls under ISO 42.

[saberwolf]

Far_Cry

ISO 0: Confirms and immediately announces a V/LA, obvscum for needing extra time for planning

ISO 1: Votes Sudai for being an idiot. RVS vote, and personally my favourite vote the entire game lol

ISO 2: small comments

ISO 3: This is where he first starts to attack toast. Main reason is he feels that the way he's starting up conversation is scummy.

ISO 4-17: it actually goes past 17, but I thought I'd stop there. 75% of the psting is just one liner comments, but the rest is asking multiple people questions, and answering the ones directed at him. None of it of real life on the line scumhunting stuff, but still good stuff to learn or find out. I give Far_Cry townie points here.

ISO 18: Rips apart Saberwolf's post analysis, doesn't deem it scumhunting worthy. I still personally disagree

ISO 19: Let's not forget about Pimj or toast anytime soon

ISO 20:

I don't like this post very much. You seem to be denying any tunnelling you seem to do and claim Saberwolf is hunting "invisible forces" and not scumhunting at all. I find that slightly scummy because you deemed my view pointless and not scumhuntingworthy simply because you were the target. Post restrictions also sounded [and still does] like a lousy excuse for not posting. To date we have had nobody claim to have them, and we are at the point where I'm pretty sure nobody does.

ISO 21:

More smacktalk at Saberwolf. I better not judge these anymore, as I'll be biased of course, I'll leave the ones in red for you guys to analyze

ISO 22: comment

ISO 23: complains about me one last time, but concludes I could be town.

ISO 24:

All opinion, once again about Saberwolf, I'll let you decide.

ISO 25: Explains what he thinks RVS is and why it's important. Looking at his explanation it seems solid and can't use it for any info-finding.

ISO 26-27: Far_Cry and Chaco discuss "taking sides". Nothing important here

ISO 28: Far_Cry discusses who he thinks is town and scum at this point.

ISO 29-31: Far_Cry is starting to get annoyed by the lack of scumhunting going on in his opinion and the fact that people are starting to accuse him of being scum. This comes off as a little scummy to me.

ISO 32-37: lots of small questions being asked, trying to get an understanding of why he's being looked at as scum.

ISO 38-41: more complaining about him being targetted. I personally think that this is scummy for the fact that he's more concerned about fighting off the people than hunting for actual scum and clearing his name that way.

ISO 42: Scumslip, or simple mistake? See above posts for details.

ISO 43: You vote for devestation, saying his lynch would prove useful for information. Didn't you say though you hate info lynches and they're pointless? I'll look through later to confirm. If I find I'm right, you've been contradictory, which is scummy.

ISO 44-46: not so much important other than the fact that Far_Cry is relieved not ot have to claim.

ISO 47: oh look, i didnt have to stray far from ISO 43....

I have to say, Bogre is right with this post. However, this "why are you a better lynch than ......" is stupid.

Town does not need to lynch for information.

I wish I could say more but I have to go to school.

so...you not town then, so the rules don't apply to you? Just earlier your vote was an information vote.

ISO 48-50: talks about oh there may be vigs, SKs and possibly two scum teams, but it doesn't matter, we just need to concentrate on lynching them. Nothing wrong with that.

ISO 51: Mod correcting.

ISO 52: clears manho as town for the time being.

ISO 53: um, huh? where did this come from? are you softclaiming that you're a bus driver?

ISO 54: sound post, but then again it applies to everyone. Nobody is clear.

ISO 55:

Rising's faction is probably already dead.

So we can not be sure if what you said above happened. We have to take it into consideration, though.

but wait a minute....

looking back at 52 as well....

Manho, you are basically cleared as scum

(or at least scum in Rising's faction)

, but that doesn't mean you are town. For now, I don't believe you are part of another scum faction or the SK, but I will hold you in check.

But here at ISO 50:

Two mafia factions seems unlikely, but still possible. However town shouldn't care about the setup a lot. We should just hunt scum/SKs.

So all of a sudden you go from uncertain to very certain, certain enough to classify someone in rising's faction or the other faction? What gives?

ISO 56: wants to nudge the game along again

ISO 57: discusses the possibility of 2 scum factions again, this time not so certain.

ISO 58: another mod fix asking

ISO 59: clears manho again, goes after donkey

ISO 60: Seems against all those who want roleclaims or are interested in roles. Is very reluctant to give up role. Why is that? makes a small summary of each player in his opinion.

ISO 61: I'll catch up post

ISO 62: accuses Manho and DeathNote of lying about being VT. What makes you so sure they're not? Why would VIP roles lie and claim VT if they feel theyre in lylo and need to be honest to win? It's almost as if you're trying to fish out a doc or cop.

ISO 63: claims elf and manho possible scum, has to follow up on DeathNote and Saberwolf

In conclusion, I feel Far_Cry stands out as the scummiest as of right now. I feel there is sufficient stuff against him here in my ISO to warrant a vote. If he could explain some of the things I brought up and answer some of my questions it may clear some uncertainties, but I feel like I may have caught on to something.

The only thing that tells me not to vote for Far_Cry is the fact he had two scum on his BW trying to get him lynched. At first I figured that cleared him, but if there are two scum factions, then they could of been the opposite faction.

I would like to do one more thing before I place a vote, and that's analyze the vote trend as well as ISO the scum [much condensed version] to get a better feel of who may be clear and who isn't.

I would like to take a small break though, as this was slightly tiring and bothersome to do. I will finish later.

ISO 63:

[saberwolf]

Deadline Today.

wtf? what hapened to 3 weeks?

damn, way to put on the pressure

vote: Far_Cry

just because I still haven't finished my analysis and he appears the scummiest so far, and I hate to see a no lynch right now when it could mean the end of the game.

[saberwolf]

so what is xofelf and DN?

good question, but more importantly, who here is the last scum? seeing as we're both online, care to take a bit of time to discuss this? I don't want to see today be like last day. We were so inactive it was sad. One of them had to be scum, or else the game would be over. Either that, or we just have a SK left and they both were VT.

what do you think of Far_Cry and myself?

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: i suppose it also could of been one scum one VT, and left an SK, or one SK and one VT, leaving a scum as well.

[saberwolf]

haha, this is pretty sad when you stop and think about it.

we have failed to lynch a single scum, yet they've been NKed like crazy every night, lmao

maybe we should just no lynch and let the final scum suicide

but in all seriousness, I'd like to see more discussion now that it's the last day. This is our last chance to kill scum, and we need to make it count.

[saberwolf]

should we have a mass claim first?

sure, I have no problem with that. I'm VT.

[saberwolf]

would like to see F_C comment at some point...

[saberwolf]

Hi furry, wanna help get this game going again?

[saberwolf]

furry: i figured it was two teams of two mafia and a SK/vig, hence three kills a night.

because there is three of us left and the game is still going, I would assume it's an SK left.

so one of you two is lying

[saberwolf]

furry: I already caught onto the mafia/mafia goon flips earlier. Empking told me it meant nothing. I don't think his answer is going to change.

why would town lose? All we need to do is lynch the final scum and its over, simple as that.

[saberwolf]

why would town lose? All we need to do is lynch the final scum and its over, simple as that.

Three deaths N1, three deaths N2. That means we have three killing factions, everyone claimed VT, so unless someone really is the vig and lied, there are two anti-town players alive.

this is pretty bad logic.

scenario 1: we had 3 killing factions, mafia team 1, mafia team 2, and a vig
4 mafia are dead, so that leaves a vig a VT and scum, making one of the teams unbalanced

scenario 2: that would make both manho and myself scum [from your POV]
This logic also fails because that would be defined as a scum win because of majority. Even if manho and I were both scum but different factions, that would still lead to a uneven balance of mafia teams. Also, that would create 6 anti-town players, in a 13 player game. Kinda too scary to be true. If it weren't for the fact that mafia crosskilled every night, it'd be a guaranteed mafia win.

Scenario 3: <reserved for after manho contributes>

[saberwolf]

ok then, in that case, you're boned either way [realise I am humoring you here and pretending hypothetically you're absolute VT and this is from your POV]

assuming we are both SK me and manho, voting for either one of us wouldn't matter.
You simply choose one of us, the other quicklynches, and you're NKed.

voting no lynch doesn't help you, cause if there's a nolynch. we either kill someone and scum win, or scum crosskill and nothing happens [assuming SKs are NK immune], and we're back at square 1.

assuming one of us is vig and one of us is SK, you can't trust the claim of either one of us, especially as we both claimed to be VT.

[saberwolf]

why just manho? why does he get a chance to retract his VT statement?

also, what happens if manho does claim vig? This scenario already has been explained.

Also, I'd like to know what you thought of your predecessor and his play throughout the game. I kinda figured if anything he was the SK, as it now makes sense whereas before it didn't when looking at F_C as a mafia possibility.

[saberwolf]

why just manho? why does he get a chance to retract his VT statement?

Also if you are going to retract it, do so in the next post or I wont believe it later under any circumstances

I have no intention of retracting. I'm VT. But I was just curious as why you targetted manho for retractment. I guess it's part of your secret plan, so I'll let you be for now.

Make sure you read my ISOs from earlier as well as ISO me if you have the time please.

[saberwolf]

manho: seeing as we are both apparantly SKs, maybe we should just both vote furry

but seriously, I'm not liking furry's attitude, to me it's the same as not taking sides by saying we are both scummy, just so that (s)he can wait to make the second move.

As of yet you have failed to prove anything. Your conclusions are based on theories, and no proven facts. Your predecessor was particularly scummy, and his only saving grace was he had two scum on his BW, which cleared him for a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were the SK. He suspected Manho, which to be honest, he had escaped my radar completely, but I guess it's possible too. I would like to see more coming from manho other than simple one liners, and for furry, I'd like to see either hardcore evidence showing we are both SK (which won't happen, because it isn't true) or at least a case on either one/both of us showing why either is a good reason to lynch.

Manho: why haven't you said much? Are you just hoping to ride this out for a quicklynch?

[saberwolf]

Ok I'm going hypothetical of course, but there is ways for it just to be one SK:

Mafia Team one: Pyro, DeathNote
Mafia Team two: Rising, Santos
SK: Furry [just using your name]

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1

Killed by team 1

12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by team 2

1. Rising

Jackinthebox

- Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by SK

11. Donkeyz12212 - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos - Mafia Goon - Killed night 2

killed by SK

6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 1

7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 2

13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

- Mafia Goon - Killed night 3

Killed by SK

5. Xofelf

RealityFan

- Vanilla Townie - Killed night 3

Killed by team 1

That wasn't so hard.

[saberwolf]

I dont think that is too balanced though... but its the only way that it could be just a SK remaining. 8-2-2-1 is just super unbalanced for scum, 6-3-3-1 would make more sense

how is it unbalanced though? 6-3-3-1 is more unbalanced because worst case scenario you're down to 7 players at mylo. 8-2-2-1 you're down to 5 players at mylo. So your logic fails here too.

So far nothing you said has been proven right, and has actually been proven wrong. Everything you have been saying is off of theory and guesswork, and little to no facts.

FoS: Furry

The only think keeping me from voting you is manho's lurking.

[saberwolf]

another thing. 6-3-3-1 isnt possible in this game

that would make all three of us here mafia and SK, making nobody town. 6 townies have already been killed, 4 mafia are dead, leaving two spots left, and none of us can be on the same mafia team or itd be over, and the one who isnt mafia would be SK. I find this to be really unbelievable.

Seeing as I'm VT, I know that not to be true, but I'm wondering if somehow you slipped with your alignment in these numbers of yours...

manho, your thoughts on this?

[saberwolf]

I agree with the last part of your statement, however, just because I won't quicklynch you doesn't mean I won't vote for you. If I genuinely feel you are scum, I will vote, but for now I am content with nobody voting while we all try to sift through each other's gameplay. I have already done my ISOs on both of you, and because we all agree that its just an SK left, there is no point in analyzing vote counts. As it stands I think Furry is scummiest, but it's manho's lurking at the endgame that is bothering me. I am not about to make any sudden moves while he doesn't contribute.

If we are done discussing theory, please start scumhunting. Thanks.

[saberwolf]

I don't like how hard Furry is trying to push himself as town, without showing a case or evidence to back it up.

Also, Furry doesn't seem to be taking sides. He is just carefully phrases his posts trying to gauge reactions from them.

[saberwolf]

Soon, even though I am leaning voting manho off a quick iso read. I would almost rather him just vote me now to save time if you are scum (dont feel like wasting a few hours if you are SK on a wrong case), since there is no way he will vote you if he is scum, and almost no way if he is town.

is it based on the fact that "you know you are town" or what? i didn't understand any thing you said.

I was drinking, so sue me.

Anyways. Its really obvious that you are going to vote me over saber if you are town (almost to the fact that you not voting me yet is shocking), I saw that in your language yesterday, I saw that in early posts today. I am likely going to be voting you once I get a case up, but given that you are already planning on voting me, I would rather you do that now instead of after I vote you, just on the off chance that saber is scum.

I don't get this logic...so you want manho to vote for you, just in case I'm anti-town and might quicklynch? Can you please post something half-decent and useful tot he rest of us for a change please?

Once again, I'm keeping my vote off until I see you both make a case against the other two. I am now giving you both until the end of the week. The one who does the worst job earns my vote, simple as that. If that doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

[saberwolf]

I already had made a decision based my own ISOs, and it would be currently leaning towards you. I also believe in giving others a fair chance at defending themselves, plus if you were to do an ISO on manho and point out a scumtell that I missed, that could make the difference and make me switch my vote to him.

[saberwolf]

Ah, so it is a valid vote. I had to be absolutely sure.

vote:manho

[saberwolf]

Pyro and Deathnote - Scum Team 1
Santos and Rising - Scum Team 2
Saberwolf - SK (Who wins scorched earth).
Everyone else is a townie.

Ok I'm going hypothetical of course, but there is ways for it just to be one SK:

Mafia Team one: Pyro, DeathNote
Mafia Team two: Rising, Santos
SK: Furry [just using your name]

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1

Killed by team 1

12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by team 2

1. Rising

Jackinthebox

- Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by SK

11. Donkeyz12212 - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos - Mafia Goon - Killed night 2

killed by SK

6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 1

7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 2

13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

- Mafia Goon - Killed night 3

Killed by SK

5. Xofelf

RealityFan

- Vanilla Townie - Killed night 3

Killed by team 1

That wasn't so hard.

put this right out there in the open, and nobody even paid attention to it really, lol

Mod: how accurate is this? Pretty sure the only place I could be wrong is day 2's results.

[saberwolf]

Still can't figure out your line of logic furry, you made it real easy to show you up and appear pro-town by disproving everything you say. You were wrong about the setup, you were wrong about the alternative setup, and wrong about me and manho.

[saberwolf]

well tbh I thought SK had the worst chances of winning...

scum only crossed killed once btw, I NKed the rest. In this game the scum were real easy to spot.

If we had better scum, they would have stood a better chance.

Also, I think it is very safe to assume that when it's a game of 13 players and the first night was 3 NKs, that there IS NOT one giant group of mafia, otherwise the game would only last 2 days if town failed to hit scum. It's just common sense.

I was kind of worried about a vig possibility myself. Far_Cry was hinting at something I thought because he started mentioning the possibility of bus drivers, which made me think maybe he targetted me for a NK and noticed it failed. I knew better than to fakeclaim though, I just stuck to VT.

[saberwolf]

Mod: any chance we can see the mafia QT's?

[saberwolf]

Me and my partner talked via PMs and we did not do it often. I am disappointed that I was killed by you because I was fairly sure I would have won. I thought I had laid low enough but yet I was still killed.

Why was that Saber? Why me and not manho?

1. I caught on to your rolefishing pretty quickly, and I noticed how you immediately posted after your speculation post to make it seem like casual thoughts. The fact that you claimed first rubbed me the wrong way, as there was no need to claim yet. IT really seemed like you just wanted to find the vig. [which didn't exist, so you were just looking for me to fakeclaim] so you could NK or somehow lynch in the future. I also noticed how when you started this game you mentioned how it was stupid to vote for far cry and you bashed the BW, but later on with no new inputs from him you voted for him.

2. On the off chance I was wrong, I figured it would be much easier to win in lylo against manho than you, as he had built up scumminess for most of the game. Looking at manho I also didn't really see anyone standing out that would tie to him as a partner, so I figured the safe bet would be you. Also I obv didn't go for F_C cause if he were scum he def would of claimed when he was that close to being lynched early on in the game.

[saberwolf]

Santos: I hit scum every night without a miss. I think you were all pretty obvscum, lol

It really was easy to tell from discussions who was who. There were those who were obvtown, such as devestation, donkey and farcry, and then i'd have to say pyro and rising stood out the most as scum. You and deathnote were harder to see, but I deduced it down to you guys after I killed your partners and acted accordingly.

One other thing I went with, that Empking told me was just coincidence, but I also noticed that the one team was grouped together on the player list, so I went with that pattern for deathnote as well. Turns out they both were. ^_^

You scum gotta stop saying you woulda won if....lol. The reason you didn't win is because I knew you were scum and pegged you down.