Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[saberwolf]

Hi... gonna do some reading here quick, anything anyone wants me to focus on please say so now.

Oh and just in case:

Unvote

Elf's only post.

We'd like you to give us your thoughts on who's left please.

[Empking]

4. Far_Cry
5. Xofelf

RealityFan

9. Saberwolf
10. manho
13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1
12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia

- Killed Night 1
1. Rising

Jackinthebox

-

Mafia

- Killed Night 1
11. Donkeyz12212 - Vannilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos -

Mafia

Goon

- Killed night 2
6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2
7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

Roles Going Out
_________________

I think I have found something. Notice that two of them say mafia, but one of them says mafia goon. Two teams of scum I believe I have just confirmed. That means we have one mafia left, as well as a vig/SK, and 3 town roles.

The different terms do not mean anything.

Sorry for the confusion

[Empking]

Far_Cry (0)
Xofelf (0)
Saberwolf (0)
manho (0)
DeathNote (0)

3 to lynch.

[manho]

i think we should have a mass roleclaim first.

I don't think so. Why do you want this?

it is likely to be our last day and we may be in lylo, so i think we should have the mass roleclaim. and i have some thought about the game setup, which may help find the scum by mass roleclaim. and you are also asking the vig to claim, which is next to asking a mass roleclaim.

[manho]

where is everyone? i will roleclaim vanilla town then.

[DeathNote]

I think Roleclaiming is fine at this point seeing as we are down to so little people. I have already claimed VT and don't see why this should be an issue.

[xofelf]

sorry about my non activity... for a while i was confused whether i had really replaced in here or not as Emp had forgotten to change the one post.. but i'm gonna have to get on this either tomorrow or Saturday. I'm rather tired and i haven't really caught up yet... so yeah. Expect stuff from me then.

[manho]

sorry about my non activity... for a while i was confused whether i had really replaced in here or not as Emp had forgotten to change the one post.. but i'm gonna have to get on this either tomorrow or Saturday. I'm rather tired and i haven't really caught up yet... so yeah. Expect stuff from me then.

i will be waiting for you...

[Far_Cry]

Rereading guys. I'll try me best to post after school. I was busy these past few days.

[Far_Cry]

i think we should have a mass roleclaim first.

I don't think so. Why do you want this?

it is likely to be our last day and we may be in lylo, so i think we should have the mass roleclaim. and i have some thought about the game setup, which may help find the scum by mass roleclaim. and you are also asking the vig to claim, which is next to asking a mass roleclaim.

I don't think we should do this quite yet. It's to early in the day to do so.

where is everyone? i will roleclaim vanilla town then.

To tell the truth, either you or deathnote is lying. Since we have like 1 more scum, an SK/vig, I would find it hard to believe that are last roles are all townies.

I will attempt to go back and get some reads on people.

[Far_Cry]

Ok, here we go:

RealityFan/xofelf: RealityFan may have had possible connections as indicated with these posts:

Unvote, vote: jackinthebox

Hasn't really said anything game related. Seems to be actively lurking.

See, the problem with this post is that, had Reality been contributing more to the game, then perhaps this vote would have been ok. But he had said barely anything up to that point, meaning that this post was sort of out of order and without reason.

Another problem is that RealityFan was lurking just as much as jackinthebox was, yet attacks him for that reason.

I have a really big gut read on FC-town. I think that saber vs. FC was Town vs. Town. I don't like Santos buddying up to me and voting jack. In my opinion, the supertown argument is dumb. It depends on if they give off any scum-tells WHILE posting a lot of content, people aren't scummy for posting a lot of content...

Once again, this looks like posting just to post. I don't understand the gut read at all, once again, because he hasn't posted enough.

Xofelf, try to post as much as u can so I can get a read.

Now, for manho:

vote: pimj

, he is too defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

Newbie scum slip? Why did u think so right away? I very much didn't like pimj and toast, but I did not call them off as scum right away. To tell the truth, this just looks like taking sides and doesn't have much though behind it.

FC has 4 votes already? but i really can't see why he is scummy. can anyone give me some reasons so that i can have a better look at FC?

i'll give a brief look at all the people so that something may come out from it.

1. Jackinthebox777 - not much content from his posts.
2. Santos - again not much content, but his latest post has some good point.
3. Devestation - really a hypocrite but accusing sudai of being hypocritical
4. Far_Cry - attacking toast and pimj for some valid reasons and contribute a lot in other ways, which is pro-town, imo.
5. RealityFan - not much content again, but trying to be useful, which is pro-town.
6. Toast - that conversation-starting post is neutral to scummy. lurking and leaving the game under attack.
7. Boxman - not much content again. voted FC to give pressure.
8. Pimj - see my previous post which explain my vote on him. lurking and leaving the game under attack, like toast.
9. Saberwolf - pretty much leading the town. maybe town or scum trying to act pro-town.
10. manho - definitely innocent, imo.
11. Donkeyz - contribute lots to the game. my gut tell me he is innocent.
12. Sudai - is there someone think sudai is scummy, can that someone tell me why.
13. Chaco (replacing RobotPirateNinja) - looking for his posts.

if anyone agree or disagree my opinion, let me know.

This looks like a scum town list. He was wrong for almost everything on this list.

Manho needs to post more so I can get a read on him, too. Right now, he looks like the scummiest player.

I will post my thoughts on saber and Deathnote later.

[manho]

To tell the truth, either you or deathnote is lying. Since we have like 1 more scum, an SK/vig, I would find it hard to believe that are last roles are all townies.

i actually think that the last roles are all townies. i don't believe there are doctor or cop in this setup. there may be a vig but it is unlikely imo. that's why i'm asking for a mass roleclaim. i'll lynch all those not claim to be townie, but now you force me to bring it up...

[manho]

vote: pimj

, he is too defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

Newbie scum slip? Why did u think so right away? I very much didn't like pimj and toast, but I did not call them off as scum right away. To tell the truth, this just looks like taking sides and doesn't have much though behind it.

it says "probably". and you have voted toast also if i remember correctly. so, you voted them without calling them off as scum?

FC has 4 votes already? but i really can't see why he is scummy. can anyone give me some reasons so that i can have a better look at FC?

i'll give a brief look at all the people so that something may come out from it.

1. Jackinthebox777 - not much content from his posts.
2. Santos - again not much content, but his latest post has some good point.
3. Devestation - really a hypocrite but accusing sudai of being hypocritical
4. Far_Cry - attacking toast and pimj for some valid reasons and contribute a lot in other ways, which is pro-town, imo.
5. RealityFan - not much content again, but trying to be useful, which is pro-town.
6. Toast - that conversation-starting post is neutral to scummy. lurking and leaving the game under attack.
7. Boxman - not much content again. voted FC to give pressure.
8. Pimj - see my previous post which explain my vote on him. lurking and leaving the game under attack, like toast.
9. Saberwolf - pretty much leading the town. maybe town or scum trying to act pro-town.
10. manho - definitely innocent, imo.
11. Donkeyz - contribute lots to the game. my gut tell me he is innocent.
12. Sudai - is there someone think sudai is scummy, can that someone tell me why.
13. Chaco (replacing RobotPirateNinja) - looking for his posts.

if anyone agree or disagree my opinion, let me know.

This looks like a scum town list. He was wrong for almost everything on this list.

can you point out where it is wrong?

[DeathNote]

We need more activity from others. I am being told to post but there is little to go off of. I still say we should role claim today and until someone gives me a logical reason otherwise, I will stick with that opinion.

[saberwolf]

so I just got my power back, I had a temp short out and i had to find someone left in the building to open my roommates room to reset the router (its reading week and everyone's gone)

so I'll comment on this shortly

[manho]

We need more activity from others. I am being told to post but there is little to go off of. I still say we should role claim today and until someone gives me a logical reason otherwise, I will stick with that opinion.

agree with that.

[DeathNote]

Vote: Farcry

[manho]

Vote: Farcry

and the reasons?

[saberwolf]

I will be doing an ISO on everybody left, one at a time

RealityFan/Xofelf

ISO 0: confirming into the game, definite scumtell

ISO 1: votes for donkey, the reason being for "delaying the game", as being the last to confirm. An honest enough RVS vote.

ISO 2-6: stays by the sidelines, making the odd comment or asking the odd question, but otherwise does nothing to scumhunt.

ISO 7: this one is interesting. He asks jack a couple of seemingly innocent questions. However, we now know that jack was mafia when he died night 1. Also if you look at the type of questions asked, they are the kind of questions that help scum more than town.

Who do you think is the most scummy so far?

Who do we BW?

Do you think it's a good idea to go after the lurkers?

Is it safer to BW a lurker or should we try to mislynch an active?

What's your opinion on FC and saber going after each other?

Is this something we can use to our advantage?

ISO 8: votes for jack, his reason being jack is actively lurking.

ISO 9-10: comments on other players behaviour.

ISO 11: claims to believe Far_Cry and Saberwolf are town, and is suspicious of santos joining on the jack BW. IMO this means one of two things:

1. RF is town and was good at picking up scum

2. RF is scum, and there is two scum factions. [this is not including the SK/vig possibility] RF was bussing his partner and didn't like it when Santos jumped on, and got lucky with the accusation.

granted, there could be two scum factions if it was option number 1 as well, but If it was number two we'd be more certain of more than one scum team, or else itd be an extreme third scenario of super bussing.

ISO 12: another comment

ISO 0: Elf says hi and unvotes

ISO 1: Elf apologizes and says she'll post later

Without comparing to the others, I would have no problem placing a vote on elf. Both of them have been active lurkers themselves, and have done no actual scumhunting what so ever. The fact that RF's only vote was a scum hit is a null tell at best, because the BW never went through and there could be two scum factions. I feel that unless Elf starts posting a lot of good pro-town content, she could be today's lynch. Taking her to the next day could make her a huge liability. If for example it was 3 players left and elf and manho were the other two, I'd have a real hard time determining who to vote for, as one is suppossedly the scummiest, while the other one has nothing to say she's town or scum.


moving onto Deathnote next

[saberwolf]

RPN/Chaco/DeathNote

ISO 0: confirming, misspelling of the word is known to be a scumtell

ISO 0: confirming, I already used my confirming joke of the post.

ISO 1-2: basic comments on how he'll catch up.

ISO 3-4: Votes for saberwolf, and explains its due to his "wishy-washyness", and the fact that he's not contributing as much as Far_Cry at that certain point in time.

ISO 5-6: says he's not taking Far_Cry's side in anything, but is voting for me

ISO 7: Get's called up on as placing a "BS vote", donkey claimed that Chaco's reason for voting Saberwolf wasn't good enough. When asked for why it is good enough, Chaco simply says the common assumption that the one of the two who makes worse posts is scum is good enough for him.

ISO 8-16: All are one-liners that don't help us at all [a bit hypocritical there right after voting saberwolf]. Finally asks to be replaced out.

ISO 0: Unvotes, claims to be catching up

ISO 1: Gives his basic overview of the game. What I don't like about this posts is he claims "everybody seems scummy to him" He does briefly mention Far_Cry and MSH as possible scumbuddies though. We know this to be false now though. Kind of a scummy post overall just for the reason that he doesnt give out anything useful to aid us in scumhunting, as he should have at least some idea who seems scummier than others.

ISO 2: Not a big fan of this post either. The whole time he talks to Devestation, about how he could either be frustrated townie or scum. It sounds like DeathNote is trying to give himself a back door for after the mislynch, so he could say "well I figured he could be townie, but i decided he was scum, I'm not to blame"

ISO 3: votes for devestation

ISO 4-5: comments, nothing of interest.

ISO 6-7: Starts speculating about the role set-up for the game. I'm left scratching my head at these two posts, cause I'm not sure if it's just townie musings and then realised that he left out other options, or if he's scum who realised he may have slipped and tried to correct it later on. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as I have done it before myself. To be honest, there isn't too much I can attack him on, cause of the way it was said. A lot of thinks, and suggests, were used, so there wasn't a sound of certainty like a scum might, and at least he said vig first and not SK, or I'd have went down on him harder for it.

ISO 8: Hammers Donkey

ISO 9: speculates about roles again

ISO 10-12: Claims VT

ISO 13: Votes Far_Cry for no reason, but I assume it was to generate discussion

A bit better than elf in posting, but can't say makes up in scumhunting. Nothing here has helped lead to scum, and more time has been spent role speculating and role claiming than anything. Once again I must point out I don't like how DeathNote had no scumlist of his own. Taking no sides is almost as bad as not posting at all.

Moving onto Manho now

[saberwolf]

Manho

ISO 0: Confirming. It's so normal and uncreative, it reeks of scum

ISO 1-5: basically Manho lurking. He manages to be V/LA and sick for 19 days. Kinda suspicious. I don't wanna attack his honesty or integrity here, but it is a mafia game, and scum have to lie.

ISO 6: Votes for Pimj (MSB), for the chainsaw defence of toast on Far_Cry, and claims Pimj is too defensive of toast.

ISO 7: When asked by Saberwolf to elaborate more, Manho goes a bit more into detail why he thinks Toast and Pimj are probably scum. Also goes into detail on why he was gone for so long. It's one of those stories that's detailed enough to be true, so I won't push him there.

ISO 8: Manho gives a list of the players and how he feels about each one. Now, based on other games I've played in, I've always been told that lists like that are anti-town, as they help scum more than town, and it's best to just simply list your top 2-3 scum suspects. Therefore, I'm going to say this was anti-town of you. As for the accuracy of your list, I'd say it was accurate enough, given that it was mainly analyzing attitudes and not behaviours. Where I disagree with you is with RF [I don't see how he was pro-town at all] and Sudai, where you don't happen to think he's scummy by the way you worded it.

ISO 9-10: mildly attacks Devestation over Sudai. Doesn't look good that Sudai flipped scum, but then again the defense of Sudai was not strong enough to link them together, mainly because Sudai wan't the main concern, he was just referenced in the discussion.

ISO 11: comment, welcomes replacements

ISO 12: accuses toast and pimj again

ISO 13: no idea to be honest, I'll let you unravel it

ISO 14-22: a fair amount of talking, analyzing the actions of others, asking the odd question. Pro-town posts here, actual scumhunting going on and I like it. The only thing that bothers me is how manho will speak for others and defend them before they get a chance to defend themselves.

ISO 23: votes for Pyromaniac, reason being he keeps trying to find the easy lynch.

ISO 24-27: seeks pyro lynch, defends Far_Cry

ISO 28-32: more defending of Far_Cry

ISO 33: welcomes DeathNote

ISO 34: comments

ISO 35: Is brought up to light on the grounds that he is found contridicting himself is regards to pro-town = scummy, trying to look town isnt scummy. Also liking Flava Flaves case against Far_Cry to no longer liking it. Also called upon his line where he says he'll act scummy to catch scum. Others think its an excuse so they don't lynch him as scum. It is a possibility.

ISO 36-40: small discussion comments, nothing too important

ISO 41-43: Talks about roleclaiming, claims VT

ISO 44: says he'll wait for elf...how romantic...

ISO 45: reveals he'll lynch anyone who does not claim VT

ISO 46: defends himself from a mild attack on Far_Cry

ISO 47: agrees discussion needs to pick up

ISO 48: asks DeathNote why the vote on Far_Cry

Does some good scumhunting midgame, but has nothing to show for begingame and seemed scummier near the endgame. I like how Manho stuck up for Far_Cry, but some part of me feels Manho may have went a little too far with it, to the point where it doesn't feel genuine and could be scum buddying up for a loyal non-voter. Overall I'd have to say I feel better about manho than either Xofelf or DeathNote, but we will see as the day goes on.


Moving on to Far_Cry

[saberwolf]

Here's the problem: you're hunting for information, not scum. Which is why if you don't find me (or Boxman) scummy, you shouldn't vote. You may claim that information will be useful for town,

but lynching town is even better, right?

um....no? scumslip?

[saberwolf]

bah, meant to make the above part of my ISO. anyways it falls under ISO 42.

[saberwolf]

Far_Cry

ISO 0: Confirms and immediately announces a V/LA, obvscum for needing extra time for planning

ISO 1: Votes Sudai for being an idiot. RVS vote, and personally my favourite vote the entire game lol

ISO 2: small comments

ISO 3: This is where he first starts to attack toast. Main reason is he feels that the way he's starting up conversation is scummy.

ISO 4-17: it actually goes past 17, but I thought I'd stop there. 75% of the psting is just one liner comments, but the rest is asking multiple people questions, and answering the ones directed at him. None of it of real life on the line scumhunting stuff, but still good stuff to learn or find out. I give Far_Cry townie points here.

ISO 18: Rips apart Saberwolf's post analysis, doesn't deem it scumhunting worthy. I still personally disagree

ISO 19: Let's not forget about Pimj or toast anytime soon

ISO 20:

I don't like this post very much. You seem to be denying any tunnelling you seem to do and claim Saberwolf is hunting "invisible forces" and not scumhunting at all. I find that slightly scummy because you deemed my view pointless and not scumhuntingworthy simply because you were the target. Post restrictions also sounded [and still does] like a lousy excuse for not posting. To date we have had nobody claim to have them, and we are at the point where I'm pretty sure nobody does.

ISO 21:

More smacktalk at Saberwolf. I better not judge these anymore, as I'll be biased of course, I'll leave the ones in red for you guys to analyze

ISO 22: comment

ISO 23: complains about me one last time, but concludes I could be town.

ISO 24:

All opinion, once again about Saberwolf, I'll let you decide.

ISO 25: Explains what he thinks RVS is and why it's important. Looking at his explanation it seems solid and can't use it for any info-finding.

ISO 26-27: Far_Cry and Chaco discuss "taking sides". Nothing important here

ISO 28: Far_Cry discusses who he thinks is town and scum at this point.

ISO 29-31: Far_Cry is starting to get annoyed by the lack of scumhunting going on in his opinion and the fact that people are starting to accuse him of being scum. This comes off as a little scummy to me.

ISO 32-37: lots of small questions being asked, trying to get an understanding of why he's being looked at as scum.

ISO 38-41: more complaining about him being targetted. I personally think that this is scummy for the fact that he's more concerned about fighting off the people than hunting for actual scum and clearing his name that way.

ISO 42: Scumslip, or simple mistake? See above posts for details.

ISO 43: You vote for devestation, saying his lynch would prove useful for information. Didn't you say though you hate info lynches and they're pointless? I'll look through later to confirm. If I find I'm right, you've been contradictory, which is scummy.

ISO 44-46: not so much important other than the fact that Far_Cry is relieved not ot have to claim.

ISO 47: oh look, i didnt have to stray far from ISO 43....

I have to say, Bogre is right with this post. However, this "why are you a better lynch than ......" is stupid.

Town does not need to lynch for information.

I wish I could say more but I have to go to school.

so...you not town then, so the rules don't apply to you? Just earlier your vote was an information vote.

ISO 48-50: talks about oh there may be vigs, SKs and possibly two scum teams, but it doesn't matter, we just need to concentrate on lynching them. Nothing wrong with that.

ISO 51: Mod correcting.

ISO 52: clears manho as town for the time being.

ISO 53: um, huh? where did this come from? are you softclaiming that you're a bus driver?

ISO 54: sound post, but then again it applies to everyone. Nobody is clear.

ISO 55:

Rising's faction is probably already dead.

So we can not be sure if what you said above happened. We have to take it into consideration, though.

but wait a minute....

looking back at 52 as well....

Manho, you are basically cleared as scum

(or at least scum in Rising's faction)

, but that doesn't mean you are town. For now, I don't believe you are part of another scum faction or the SK, but I will hold you in check.

But here at ISO 50:

Two mafia factions seems unlikely, but still possible. However town shouldn't care about the setup a lot. We should just hunt scum/SKs.

So all of a sudden you go from uncertain to very certain, certain enough to classify someone in rising's faction or the other faction? What gives?

ISO 56: wants to nudge the game along again

ISO 57: discusses the possibility of 2 scum factions again, this time not so certain.

ISO 58: another mod fix asking

ISO 59: clears manho again, goes after donkey

ISO 60: Seems against all those who want roleclaims or are interested in roles. Is very reluctant to give up role. Why is that? makes a small summary of each player in his opinion.

ISO 61: I'll catch up post

ISO 62: accuses Manho and DeathNote of lying about being VT. What makes you so sure they're not? Why would VIP roles lie and claim VT if they feel theyre in lylo and need to be honest to win? It's almost as if you're trying to fish out a doc or cop.

ISO 63: claims elf and manho possible scum, has to follow up on DeathNote and Saberwolf

In conclusion, I feel Far_Cry stands out as the scummiest as of right now. I feel there is sufficient stuff against him here in my ISO to warrant a vote. If he could explain some of the things I brought up and answer some of my questions it may clear some uncertainties, but I feel like I may have caught on to something.

The only thing that tells me not to vote for Far_Cry is the fact he had two scum on his BW trying to get him lynched. At first I figured that cleared him, but if there are two scum factions, then they could of been the opposite faction.

I would like to do one more thing before I place a vote, and that's analyze the vote trend as well as ISO the scum [much condensed version] to get a better feel of who may be clear and who isn't.

I would like to take a small break though, as this was slightly tiring and bothersome to do. I will finish later.

ISO 63:

[xofelf]

gah! i hate when life creeps up on me and i forget that i'm in the middle of things...

Time to read and say what i need to say... sorry about that to everyone.. life is a real bitch.