Mini 845 - The Amish Village (Game Over)

[DeathSauce]

Replacing Kairyuu:

Step one:

unvote

Step two: Catching up, see you later today.

[iamausername]

Iam, whats your feelings on percy, and why.

I had a weak town read on Percy before, because he is playing exactly how I have seen him play as town before. Recent events have further strengthened that read, becuse I can't imagine why scum Percy would go out of his way to defend me like he has immediately after announcing that defending people for any reason is scummy.

4. Nothing. Just disagreeing with other lynches being proposed, because I feel some are more, "if we lynch this person, people's alignments will be more obvious"

Where is this happening? I don't think I've seen anyone in this game suggesting that a particular player would be a good lynch for any reason other than that player being probable scum.

For those chumps who are getting town reads or have better suspicions but are worried about wagons getting up, deadline is extended, branch out and vote someone likely to be scum, imo.

I already am. You should too.

[magnus_orion]

Where is this happening? I don't think I've seen anyone in this game suggesting that a particular player would be a good lynch for any reason other than that player being probable scum.

I didn't say that. I said "I feel"
This was referring to the serial wagon. I don't think serial's been sufficiently scummy to justify his lynch, but I did think he's been interesting enough that information could be revealed from his lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

I already am. You should too.

Fair enough.

unvote, vote Hero

but I did think he's been interesting enough that information could be revealed from his lynch.

Whaaaa?

[VP Baltar]

Hero's not in the game anymore. More on these developments later.

[SerialClergyman]

Arg, Zach replaced hero?

Fail keeping up with replacements.

unvote Hero who know longer exists, vote EVIL REINCARNATION of Hero in Zach

[Zachrulez]

I have vastly underestimated the length of time it was going to take me to catch up on this game.

35+ pages, how long could that take? Apparently with enough text walls, it can take a pretty good amount of time.

Anyway, I have read enough into day two to know that I don't like Kai's insistence that a pro-town roleblocker should claim. I don't see the potential game breaking situation he insists is likely should the role exist and it seems a lot more like rolefishing to me. The way most mini normals are designed to my knowledge, I just don't see it.

So

Vote: Deathsauce

That's who replaced him right?

On the upside, I have a lot more time to catch up now with the deadline extension.

[Fishythefish]

unvote, vote: Zachrulez

Some content coming this evening, with any luck.

[VP Baltar]

Why I'm defending him: In most games that I've played, I've avoided defending anyone. I think it's too risky and better to leave people to fend for themselves. It helps with my reads and doesn't start people linking alignments too early.

However, in this game I think the case on IAAUN is crap and that no-one is going to think me more scummy simply because I defend him - though of course people may take issue with the manner in which I defend him, I'm not going to actively stop myself from speaking my mind on this issue.

I just really do not like the cognative dissonance between "I think defending anyone is scummy" and then "IAAUN is clearly town". It's a huge contradiction in your own approach.

I can't imagine why scum Percy would go out of his way to defend me like he has immediately after announcing that defending people for any reason is scummy.

Forgetfulness?

Fishy, you're voting has really been back and forth these last couple of pages. I'm interested to hear what you have to say, as I don't see anything outstandingly scummy about Zach, just that he probably still needs to catch up more and form more rounded opinions.

[Ojanen]

Hi guys, I'm back, still sick but not on the road anymore so it's ok, will catch up very soon.

[Fishythefish]

Fishy, you're voting has really been back and forth these last couple of pages. I'm interested to hear what you have to say, as I don't see anything outstandingly scummy about Zach, just that he probably still needs to catch up more and form more rounded opinions.

My voting has been back and forth for deadline reasons. When I thought there was a deadline very soon, a Hero/Zach lynch was not looking likely, so I transferred my vote to SC. With deadline extended, I'm not at all sure which of Hero and SC I want lynched.

My position on these players:

First, Hero/Zach, because this is the easy one. My gut tells me Hero was scum, and I'd be happy to see him lynched.

Second, SC. This is still a good summary of what makes me think he's scum:

It’s true that I have been recently arguing with you an awful lot about your playstyle. Here’s the part where you are scum:
1) You jumped on iam’s case without checking it.
2) You didn’t read my response, or if you did, you ignored it – after I’d asked you which bits of the case you agreed with, you just didn’t answer.
3) You still haven’t explained either 1) or 2). All your reasoning since then have been pretty much totally separate from iam’s case.
4) Instead, you have come up with a theory about the group of wagoners being largely scum. However:
a) Certain aspects of this theory don’t hold together – most notably the theory that 7 players are being influenced by two or three scum.
b) You use this theory to support an attack on me – in fact I think it’s fair to say it’s the meat of your attack. But this theory points to me as scum no better than it points to a few other players.
I think your theory, and the conclusions you draw from it, are designed to move scumhunting from you to the wagon, and to support your vote for me, covering your tracks after your following of iam.

Doubts have been creeping in for a few reasons. I'm having great difficulty coming up with motivation for 4). The motivation I give it in the above sounds cute, but after thinking about it some more I'm not sure how much sense it makes. I think SC's theory would be a decidely odd thing to come out with as scum, already under pressure for following iam and earlier playstyle issues. It's almost bound to pit him against a lot of players, and it doesn't feel plausible that he actually thought it would make everyone on the wagon turn on each other. It's possible he thought he could get away with his following of iam in this way, but again I don't see how he could have thought that would work.
I still very much stand by 1-3, but I note that not many other players have thought as much of these arguments as me, and I know I am prone to being overly sensitive to attacks on me.
Finally, SC's posts on his theory ring true. Though I may disagree with him, he sounds like he believes what he is saying. I worry that this may be just because he has posted so many words about it, but I don't think that's it.
Overall, I think SC is scummy, largely because of his play on my wagon, but I keeping changing my mind about how scummy he is. This read is obviously arrived at in a very different way from the one on Zach, and frankly I don't know which one is stronger. If my vote truly reflected who I thought was most likely scum at all times, it would probably be changing about once a day.

[SerialClergyman]

I liked this post. Seems like genuine confusion and his attempts to deal with low info.

I do not like the promise of content when voting hero then when the post came there was nothing more than gut written about him.

[Fishythefish]

I do not like the promise of content when voting hero then when the post came there was nothing more than gut written about him.

It was intended as a promise of content generally, not as a promise of an expansion on my reasons for voting hero - I never expected to be able to give such. I had little time at that point, and was saying that I would make a post responding to anything I felt needed it tonight.

[Percy]

I just really do not like the cognative dissonance between "I think defending anyone is scummy" and then "IAAUN is clearly town". It's a huge contradiction in your own approach.

Declaring a town read on a player and defending them against specific attacks are quite different things.

Forgetfulness?

That's some misrep right there. I felt that defending people was scummy; when everyone told me "no it isn't", I decided to have a go; as I said previously,

However, in this game I think the case on IAAUN is crap and that no-one is going to think me more scummy

simply because I defend him

- though of course people may take issue with the manner in which I defend him, I'm not going to actively stop myself from speaking my mind on this issue.

I may be many things, but forgetful isn't one of them.

@SerialClergyman: Looking at you in ISO, you have barely mentioned Hero, and usually just to ask his opinions on other players. You mention way back in Post 772 that you thought IAAUN's move onto Hero "has merit", but that's it, no specifics or reasons. So why are you voting

Herodotus

Zachrulez?

@magnus: Why are IAAUN's and SC's alignments linked?
Who is scum if SC is town? Why is it worth lynching him for information?

[DeathSauce]

Sorry all, I am still reading. The incredible number of replacements is making me keep a scorecard here. Content tomorrow, that is a promise.

[SerialClergyman]

Percy -

1) Hero fits with my theory of scum behaviour in his place on the wagon.
2) He is more likely to get lynched than my other suspects.
3) I like his wagon.
4) If you went back a bit further to my first content post I think I mentioned that there was something about him I didn't like but couldn't put my finger on it.

Reasons 1) and 2) are the main ones, though.

[Percy]

Hold on, you encouraged everyone to vote with who they thought was scum without thought for wagon size, deadlines and so forth:

For those chumps who are getting town reads or have better suspicions but are worried about wagons getting up, deadline is extended, branch out and vote someone likely to be scum, imo.

You were voting me when you gave the above quote, so I assumed that your vote on me was not one like this. But then IAAUN said:

I already am. You should too.

...and you unvoted me and voted

Herodotus

Zachrulez. Now you're saying you're voting him for "who's likely to get lynched" reasons, which are precisely the kinds of reasons you were telling people

not

to use in voting at this stage in the game. (To be fair, it was your #2 reason of four, but it was still a "main" reason.)
This is a glaring contradiction in your voting justification, and another reason why I'm very happy with my vote.

[Amished]

Mod Votecount 2-14

iamausername (2): magnus_orion; Debonair Danny DiPietro
DeathSauce (2): chamber; Zachrulez;
SerialClergyman (2): Percy; VP Baltar
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): Ojanen
Zachrulez (3): iamausername; SerialClergyman; FishytheFish

Not voting (1): DeathSauce

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
6 days til deadline.

1 AM EST
6 AM GMT
5 PM Eastern Australian time on Saturday, the 21st of November.

Just a constant reminder:
Zachrulez = Herodotus
Debonair Danny DiPietro = Sajin = Rosso Carne
DeathSauce = Kairyuu

[SerialClergyman]

I tried getting a wagon up on you and it didn't work, i couldn't get the numbers. The quote you posted was the end of the movement not the beginning. It started here:

Given the deadline, would anyone keen to vote Percy do it very soon so I can see if this wagon has a chance of getting off the ground?

continued here

M'okay, well that's a possibility. Any other takers?

final appeal here

For those chumps who are getting town reads or have better suspicions but are worried about wagons getting up, deadline is extended, branch out and vote someone likely to be scum, imo.

and moved on here

Fair enough. unvote, vote Hero

[Ojanen]

I'm a mess right now so catching up here will have to wait another 12 hours, but I'll respond to this now:

@Ojanen: I have explained my changes in opinion with regard to both the SC case and the le Chat/IAAUN case, so either you didn't like my explanation or just don't like that I have changed my stance on some issues. If the former, please point to me where I have poorly explained my opinion, and if the latter, then I am not going to apologise for that; the game changes, and so do my reads.

I was bothered by the fact that the reaction of Serial's that you find to be of significant relevance in his scumminess is very similar to your own reaction at the time, only in milder form in you. You have a mild scumread on le chat. You read le chat new incarnation iam's case and Fishy's response. This prompts you to give a "firm FoS overall" to Fishy and attack him. Unsurprisingly, you feel Serial looks better in comparison. Opinion changes are fine but I'm having trouble seeing the thought process from your perspective here, how is Serial's reaction to Iam's case hard to relate to from your head?

[magnus_orion]

@magnus: Why are IAAUN's and SC's alignments linked?

in so much as if IAAUN is town, I don't think that there can be a significant argument for SC scum. The only significant tell I can see is his flakiness on the Iam/le chat wagon and willingness to follow Iam. In fact, I don't think a single tell that isn't related to Iam in some way has been made on SC. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

[magnus_orion]

Of course, come to think of it, with the aggressive pursuit, if SC is town, Percy's probably scum.

[Amished]

Jebus will be a backup mod for me during my V/LA period later this year. (November 30th until December 8th)

Just an early notice, and mighty thanks to Jebus!

[SerialClergyman]

Of course, come to think of it, with the aggressive pursuit, if SC is town, Percy's probably scum.

Could you expand on that one for me?

[Percy]

@Ojanen: You are right to point out that the general flow of le Chat scummy -> IAAUN town is how I saw it as well, but it's a matter of extremes. I was certainly more supportive of a RayFrost lynch than a le Chat lynch, for example, and I thought the case that SC presented at the last minute was very unconvincing. When he didn't continue with the scumhunting on le Chat the next day, I found that hard to fathom; when he declared that IAAUN had "solved the game" for him, I found that just as inexplicable.

@magnus_orion: Here and here and here and here and here are links to posts that contain arguments that I have forwarded that have nothing to do with IAAUN/le Chat. It's true that SC's interaction with le Chat/IAAUN is part of the case, but it is nowhere near the entirety, and I don't see how SC's flaking on the case and subsequent buddying precludes the possibility of SC scum, IAAUN town.

I would like elaboration on the post of yours that SC quoted as well. This is the second time you've tried to link SC's alignment to someone else's, and I don't like this latest attempt any more than the last. It appears as though you're trying to push an IAAUN lynch for information still - if he's town, then SC is town, then I'm scum, so let's lynch him and see what happens! This is scummy play, independent of SC's alignment.

FoS: magnus_orion

.