Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Javert]

curiouskarmadog, do you have an opinion on this possible explanation:

1.)

I was just doing some laundry and thinking about this game when it occurred to me that if Papa Zito took a shot on Night One, he probably tried to kill Pomegranate but failed because Pomegranate was hiding. One of Papa Zito's last posts even says that Pomegranate is the scummiest person on mafiascum.

I thought I would share this forehead-slapping moment. It seems very obvious to me in retrospect, and I wish I had thought of it yesterday as a reason for not lynching Pomegranate.

[Patrick]

Votecount

dybeck (1) -- Amished
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- Espeonage, dybeck
Ojanen (1) -- farside22
Espeonage (2) -- Seraphim, Faraday

Not voting: curiouskarmadog, Javert, Ojanen, boberz, NickF227, Jahudo, Albert B. Rampage
13 alive, 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 26th of May

[farside22]

CKD is town.
ABR jury is out but I still want to flip him off and rant at him.
I still would vote Esp. I think the Nick wagon was scum's way of trying to stop a Sando lynch just like the Richard wagon day 1.
I'm starting to get really bad vibes from those jumping on the ABR wagon. Yes CKD is right in one respect ABR could not defend himself on his Pom push. I still can't get off the scum vibes from dybeck.

[Amished]

There's still two killing roles out there in one form or another (PZ-vig died N1; 2 kills N2; I believe that a kill of ABR was blocked last night which is why I still don't see his wagon as anything but opportunistic scum (oh hey, look, it's Espy and Dybeck...)).

@ Javert: Do you think dybeck is scum on his own merits, not counting a connection to Sando? (the line of thought should be pretty clear here)

[farside22]

Amished you think ABR is a SK?

[Javert]

@ Javert: Do you think dybeck is scum on his own merits, not counting a connection to Sando? (the line of thought should be pretty clear here)

I have never really thought dybeck was particularly scummy. On top of that, I do not think dybeck is likely to be scum with Sando + bv310.

[NickF227]

Is there a 'Make a poster shut the fuck up for a day' role? I'd apreesh if it was used on ABR so his bullshit can stop flying. Its annoying.

I kinda wish Sando was town now, the backtrack by ABR would've been so much more glorious.

K, back to the game...

Everyone else has brought up good points, it seems like Espy is on every single counter wagon that was in this game, and shes' always been on people's radars.

Vote: Espeonage

[Seraphim]

Hey, Nick, why the sudden 180 on ABR? I totally expected you to be hitting him hard today after the backtrack.

[Amished]

I was leading down the road that if Javert didn't think dybeck was scum *with* Sando/bv; then I was going to try to put something together that dybeck would be the SK. I don't know what sort of scum dybeck is, but it doesn't really matter to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR still jumped the Sando wagon at the last minute when it was clear that he was going to be lynched.

Really? Because I thought I was first.

I'm in New York and no access for a week! Have fun guys!

[Javert]

I really need to stop thinking about this game -- I should be studying for exams right now. But I think it is better to say this now than later:

FoS: Amished

This is a very delicate thought-process, so bear with me.

I have definitely been getting the feeling that Amished has been scumhunting this game, but I am suddenly thinking he might be scumhunting for one particular type of scum -- namely, a Serial Killer. (Or to be comprehensive, "scum who is not partnered with Amished"). This case is mostly off the top of my head, and I might change my mind when I have time to read the game over later, but here are the highlights that come to mind:

->

a.)

At the start of Day Three (after there had been two kills on Night Two), Amished only looked at the Porochaz kill. He did not analyze the Anon kill. When he analyzed the Porochaz kill, he voted for RichardGHP.

This

could

have been inadvertent selectivity from Amished: if Amished was responsible for the Anon kill, then he obviously would not have been particularly interested in analyzing the Anon kill.

Notably, Amished so far as I can tell has not analyzed any nightkills except for the Porochaz kill. This suggests he is not really interested in the other nightkills, but

was

interested in the Porochaz kill.

->

b.)

RichardGHP then died last night. This could have been an attempt to knock off Amished's best guess at a Serial Killer during the night.

->

c.)

I am now having a suddenly very different take on the Pomegranate lynch. Consider what a Mafia group sees when they see somebody claim Hider. The Mafia is probably thinking "this could be a Serial Killer, and she is probably unkillable at night."

I just double-checked Amished's posts, and he was very definitely anti-Pomegranate after seeing the claim. Granted, this applies to a fair number of people, and this is certainly not the strongest point against Amished.

->

d.)

Amished's last question towards me seem to indicate that he possibly thinks dybeck is a Serial Killer. He claims dybeck is scummy, but he does not seem to contest my thoughts that dybeck is not scum with bv310 / Sando.

~~~

2.)

So, I have to ask three questions:

->

i.

Amished, let's assume there is a Serial Killer and a Mafia group. If you had to choose which group you would rather try to lynch today, which would you choose and why?

->

ii.

Why is the Porochaz kill the only kill you have formally analyzed?

->

iii.

Do

you

think dybeck is scum with Sando and bv310?

[Jahudo]

I didn't find anything I liked about Richard or dybeck's cases against Faraday. Even though Richard is now known as town, I don't think Faraday's vote on him looked opportunistic---more pressuring to try and get Richard to take the game more seriously.

@Amished: where is your case on dybeck. I can't find it, besides this post: post 1151.

Espy wagon looks like the happening place to be today.

Vote: Espeonage

- reasons 667, 1334.

[Amished]

For one of your points that I saw, Javert: I analyzed the Porochaz kill because Poro wasn't exactly topping my "pro-town" list. Also, with only one kill on N1 I figured that Porochaz was responsible for blocking one of the kills (since there were 2 on N2). Obviously a hider or other unknown night actions could be responsible but I try not to deal with "maybes". Especially with a Jailkeeper (which I tend to like as a role overall), my experience seeing them is that they breadcrumb or are otherwise very obvious with who they jailkept the night before. Richard seemed like an obvious mislynch just knowing his style and with all the hate against him on D1. I assumed that Richard was who our mafia group sent to kill (already dead weight, might as well not risk implicating anybody else with a potential tracker or watcher). That's the reason for that kill.

For your questions:
i) Between SK and mafia group? SK, 100%. It both eliminates an anti-town night kill and gives more time to look for connections between scum (4-1-15; 5-1-14 are both options at this point, though now that I think about it, an SK in a game this size would probably have a NK-immunity and that could've accounted for a lack of NK too)

ii) Oh, handy dandy, refer to the top of the post.

iii) I have no idea if dybeck is scum with anybody. The only time I ever see connective tells is when it's obvious that one scum is attacking one person for something, but giving a pass to a scummate for doing the same thing (lurking, or active lurking is an obvious example). I've always been better off with scumhunting by finding solo-"tells" than connections; so I just make a case based on the person that I'm attacking. It both yields me better results and doesn't allow for scum distancing or buddying which I have a hard time discerning.

@Jahudo: I don't have a formal case on dybeck, he's somebody that I've felt was scummy pretty much the entire game. If you want me to go back and point out what was particularly scummy of him, I'll be glad to.

[Javert]

For one of your points that I saw, Javert: I analyzed the Porochaz kill because Poro wasn't exactly topping my "pro-town" list. Also, with only one kill on N1 I figured that Porochaz was responsible for blocking one of the kills (since there were 2 on N2). Obviously a hider or other unknown night actions could be responsible but I try not to deal with "maybes". Especially with a Jailkeeper (which I tend to like as a role overall), my experience seeing them is that they breadcrumb or are otherwise very obvious with who they jailkept the night before. Richard seemed like an obvious mislynch just knowing his style and with all the hate against him on D1. I assumed that Richard was who our mafia group sent to kill (already dead weight, might as well not risk implicating anybody else with a potential tracker or watcher). That's the reason for that kill.

Ah. That actually makes sense.

When you analyzed the Porochaz kill, for some reason I thought you were trying to figure out who tried to kill Porochaz and concluded that it was RichardGHP. This made me wonder why you never analyzed the other kills. But now I can see that you were rather trying to figure out who Porochaz had jailkept on Night One (which now explains why you quoted Porochaz's first post of Day Two and not his later posts on Day Two).

I don't have any problems with your other answers, but I still think I might be onto something. I plan on getting back to you when I have time.

[Espeonage]

Ok how is ABR not scum?

[Faraday]

The arguments against ABR seem stupid to me. If he was scum I don't think he'd come out and admit he'd faked his claim.

How long do you think he'd last giving out fake results? He'd get caught out before the end of the game. This has obviously been pointed out to him by his scummates overnight and he's realised his schoolboy error.

Admitting to lying about his results is his ONLY remaining option.

What? Seriously you think admitting as lying as scum here was the best or easiest option for Albert. I don't buy that at all. It's far easier for him to fake results for a day or 2, maybe even more. Hell he could have easily claimed roleblocked or shit like that either if he really didn't want to give out results.

I really don't see any good reasons for voting him atm.

Ok how is ABR not scum?

He's really not playing like scum.

[Espeonage]

Ok he claimed scum while seeming dead serious. How is that not a confession?

[Faraday]

wat.

[Seraphim]

Esp, he was fairly obviously joking.

[Espeonage]

Some part of everyone always wants to share their secrets. Jokes are usually the way this gets done especially when they don't really want others to know the truth. They are just getting the idea out and therefore appeasing the little subconscious voice telling them to share their secrets.

ABR is scum, end of story.

[curiouskarmadog]

curiouskarmadog, do you have an opinion on this possible explanation:

1.)

I was just doing some laundry and thinking about this game when it occurred to me that if Papa Zito took a shot on Night One, he probably tried to kill Pomegranate but failed because Pomegranate was hiding. One of Papa Zito's last posts even says that Pomegranate is the scummiest person on mafiascum.

I thought I would share this forehead-slapping moment. It seems very obvious to me in retrospect, and I wish I had thought of it yesterday as a reason for not lynching Pomegranate.

yeah, maybe...sounds about right.

[curiouskarmadog]

Some part of everyone always wants to share their secrets. Jokes are usually the way this gets done especially when they don't really want others to know the truth. They are just getting the idea out and therefore appeasing the little subconscious voice telling them to share their secrets.

wow, really?

[Espeonage]

Some part of everyone always wants to share their secrets. Jokes are usually the way this gets done especially when they don't really want others to know the truth. They are just getting the idea out and therefore appeasing the little subconscious voice telling them to share their secrets.

wow, really?

ya

[curiouskarmadog]

I understand people's votes on you.

[curiouskarmadog]

Esp i understand where you are coming from with thinking ABR is scum (though, my reasonings were not just based on yesterday's actions)..

I would like to here you thought on this post in regards to ABR

that being said...ABRscum, could have done a couple other things too..he could have claimed town on someone, could have claimed town on richard (which would have again been suspected given the part of the claim about pom too)...he could have said he was blocked (also suspect, but more believeable given the no ABR kill)...hey could have claimed he was afraid to use strong mode again and used weak mode for no result...

there is a lot of things he could have done as scum, versus what he did do...this is all WIFOM..just need to think about it and reread.