Newbie 999 - Game Over

[chesskid3]

/confirm
1) Yes
2) Vanilla
3) I've played mafia for a long time in person, but this will be my first online game.
4) No - Lying does not necessarily imply scumminess.
5) Math (But chess is definitely a sport)
6) I have a position on this I use in real-life games for people who aren't contributing, but I'll mention it if/when it comes to it.
7) Either is fine, although RQS seems more focused at starting discussion relevant to the game which can give information.

[chesskid3]

If I told you, that would sort of ruin the point, wouldn't it?
I'll give a description of how it can be useful, I guess. There are a bunch of different things, not sure how many of them would work here.
There's the inspector claim when it's really your neighbor (doesn't work online),
The risky but effective fake inspector claim when you get a read you're sure of on someone (risky if the real inspector counterclaims or you're wrong)
Then of course there are also the scum lies, yes, but there are benefits as town to being somewhat suspicious.

[chesskid3]

But that's not to say lying can't be an effective tool if used properly. *shrug*

[chesskid3]

Why does it matter that it's a newbie game?

[chesskid3]

I would like to comment that a lot of things I use in real games rely somewhat on private communication, so perhaps deceit is not as useful in online mafia as it can be. Still, there is the implicit vanilla town role claim, the doctor never claiming unless it's at no or 1 mistake(s), since he can't save himself (I usually play he/she can, oh well).
This is rather off topic - can we compromise on I/anyone won't lie without good reason, and had better have an explanation of why, and be sure that they are actually helping town?

[chesskid3]

You give me too much credit, this was merely my sloppy entry into online mafia.

Hypothetical: Were I for example doctor, and get hammered on day 1/2, I doubt I would claim doctor. Depending on the circumstances, I'd claim vanilla and try to beat the rap, because with these rules, a claimed doctor is worthless. There's a situation I would lie in. Of course now it's worthless because I just said it, but still.
Also, note that all I said was [quote]4) No - Lying does not necessarily imply scumminess.[\quote]

And Finally - obviously no actual claims for a good while, that's why I said implicit.

[chesskid3]

because as soon as you claim doc, you die and town loses doc for sure, while if you beat the hammer, town doesn't lose doc...Doc/Inspector team is powerful enough that it can make up the difference. Again, I said depending on the situation, if I was going to be lynched prettymuch guaranteed without a great claim, I would, but if it looked like I might be able to escape, I wouldn't.

[chesskid3]

How? Was one of the questions "Are you scum?" and you refuse to lie?

[chesskid3]

It was my profile pic for pokemon profile pic month on fb...but my name is Andrew and I'm from NY, if that helps.

[chesskid3]

VOTE: Boberz
Rhymes with Roberz, 'nuff said.

[chesskid3]

I'll be V/LA until Sunday - visiting my grandmother. Might be able to get on and read chatter, but doubt I'll be able to post anything substantial.
Because of that,

Unvote

[chesskid3]

So I haz internet after all (wifi poaching ftw).
Apparently we're doing RVS now, meh. I'm still not going to throw down any votes while internet access is not guaranteed (Sunday afternoon it will be)
However it is nice to see that I am no longer the only person in this game against LaL.

[chesskid3]

I'm back home. I wish I could say that I won't be V/LA again during this game, but Sep 4th-11th I may or may not have internet access (I am doing community action at Princeton, and don't know where I'll be staying). Hopefully I will.

I don't seem to have missed much at all, which is good...a few comments.
1) @ Boberz: Either 4 or 5 people in this game have said no to the policy LaL, and while reasons may/may not be different for saying no, I think that the general consensus is that LaL is a bad idea because someone lying does not imply that they are necessarily scum [opinions differ on whether town should ever lie, I guess. I still think it depends on the situation]. Sure, it's suspicious, and they had better have a good reason for any lies, but it shouldn't be a policy lynch with no discussion.
Further, not agreeing to LaL does not imply that someone is going to lie (I think CommieX pointed this out above as well)
2) @ Mod: Can we get a votecount?
3) @Everyone: What times in EST (or GMT - X) are good for you to be online? There doesn't seem to be much activity here.

So far I would say Bogart,Pandabeer,parknourie,oneequalstwo should try to be a bit more active.

[chesskid3]

EBWOP Boberz had not posted when I posted this.

@ Boberz: I unvoted because I wasn't sure of internet access. I suppose my vote was a bit of an OMGUS, not sure why that means anything though.

[chesskid3]

Bogart, how come you still haven't explained your "better than all of you" comment?

[chesskid3]

I still don't get it, but ok.

[chesskid3]

I'm beginning to wonder if you want to wagon me just to either try to get me quicklynched, or force a claim..doesn't seem a very pro-town thing to do, does it?

[chesskid3]

Actually, boberz, perhaps the reason I haven't done any scumhunting is because I've been too busy dealing with your attacks

[chesskid3]

EBWOP accidentally hit post, was not done.
Ever since the RQS you've been questioning me about my answer to LaL.
As for your other points...an RVS OMGUS doesn't do any harm, from what i've seen
...I haven't repeatedly tried to find situations in which I can lie, I have (tried to) point out some examples of how lying can benefit town in real-life games. Since i'm new to online mafia, I don't know whether or not it will have similar implications here.

What would you like me to infer from your intentions towards me, given that you've been after me as of page 1?
Also, I don't see much at all from anyone except boberz, so how am I supposed to have scum tells on 4 people like boberz here?

[chesskid3]

When I play mafia, I generally use wagons as a negative on the people in them - those who are quick to support a vote without adding reasons of their own are more likely to be mafia, because they are supporting someone else's accusation, thus keeping them out of the spotlight....The problem with this being that in real games votes are done on the count of 3, and not by posting.
I don't understand how wagons actually help, though..perhaps you could explain, boberz?

As for opinions of other people (i've been a little reserved to give much because often in my games if I hit on a mafia on day 1 with my suspicions, i'll just die that night, and it becomes a WIFOM/nobody even remembers I was suspicious of)
@Boberz: Very pushy, no-nonsense. I'm operating under the assumption that he is town, but i don't like both how he has been focusing on me for my RQS response (what a surprise), and I'd say he's more than a little paranoid when 5 people are scummy to him. It's very early in the game, and so information on people is just starting to accumulate, getting a scum vibe on someone from 3-4 posts seems a bit strange to me. Summary: Well-intentioned, but a bit too aggressive compared to what i'm used to

@Zipper: While I really appreciate his defense of me, I'm not sure why he jumped on boberz - just seemed like a slightly strong reaction, and something I'm going to keep in mind for later.

@RedCoyote: Also operating under the assumption that he is town. He's the IC, knows a lot more about online mafia than I do for sure, and I'm going to keep taking his suggestions.

@parknourie,HB,Pandabeer: No real suspicious behavior, but also not much behavior at all. Can you guys try to get on a bit more?

@1=2: I know him in real life, actually- we're friends - we were both part of the same math club until I graduated. He likes chatspeak, as I'm sure you've noticed. I also understand the concerns about having two votes on the same person during RVS; that's one of the reasons I voted Boberz, since he didn't have any votes on him at the time. Not sure what to make of him yet.

Feel free to ask for any clarifications/questions.

[chesskid3]

I have no reason to lie this game, so I promise not to lie. Happy?

@boberz: I was just mentioning that the whole idea of wagons as a beneficial thing is new to me, so I may take a short while to catch on to how they are useful.
What I don't understand is....D1 ends when 5 people are on a wagon, right? The wagon makes it more likely someone on a town lynch was mafia, or vice versa...but it certainly is not an absolute. I take it the wagon information is then compared with other actions of players on the wagon, etc, so it's more of a voting record than a 'wagon'?

[chesskid3]

@ Mod, can I get a replacement?

I have far less free time then I thought I would this week, + no internet access next week at all.

Sorry guys.