Newbie 996 - Starting Small [Game Over]

[moose200x]

Don't worry Johannes, I know who mafia is

I am debating if I should just write out some long winded "proof" or just start the victory wagon.

[smargaret]

I still have a town read on Parama. Upon rereading, I am inclined to think my suspicion of Cliquey was based on the tags. Especially with his meta, I feel like Cliquey is likely town and bored, and trying to make the game more interesting.

Cliquey, you said Day 1 that you thought some of the votes on the DMSIS wagon were poorly founded, which ones?

Why would jim's hammer make me look scummy? I put DMSIS at L-1 and then encouraged a hammer with a really weak excuse (hmm... 5 people are slightly suspicious = Auto-kill) to see who would fall for the hammer. And jimfinn did. I only unvoted jimfinn because I didn't want a quickhammer of scum on the cop, putting the game into 3-player LYLO without any real suspicions.

So putting DMSIS at L-1 and encouraging a hammer was a scumhunting tactic...

DMSIS, the two real scum WOULDN'T have hammered.

That would give them away quite easily...

One scum hammer would give away scum easily as well. 1 scum dead for 1 town is BAD for scum, from a 7/2 it turns into a 4/1 within the matter of two days, which is a WORSE situation for scum. (especially if PR's are still around)

... but scum shouldn't hammer. It looks to me like he was coaching his partner and hoping to get a townie to hammer DMSIS, so there'd be an easy mislynch Day 2.

Just noticed this quote:

If DMSIS flips scum, I'll need to go back and look at how people interacted with him, especially Moose. I haven't thought about that possibility much today. It will also depend on who dies tonight.

Don't you think that me or jimfinn might be bussing? I honestly think that jimfinn is obv. bussing... (asking me if he should hammer..., trusting someone that isn't a confirmed townie and put DMSIS at L-1 with a very weak reason (only DMSIS caught on, more than one person has majority of people suspicious of them))

Very, very interesting.

Oh yeah, Jimfinn, please claim. And if you're VT, PLEASE PLEASE do not claim a power role.

More coaching.

Thus,

VOTE: Doubtful

[moose200x]

NO FUCK YOU SMARGRET

[moose200x]

Just to clairfy I knew it was doubtful before she did.

Doubtful's post #131- "jimfinn: Do you have any conclusions about any of the players in your PBPA? I mean, summary is good, but conclusions are everything."
Jim's post #135-" If you read my PBPA a little more closely, I explain why I think moose and Doc are the scummiest, closely followed by Mist. For now I'm going to put my VOTE: moose, but it could easily be changed to the other two if convincing arguments are made. I think Moose's odd bantering style could very easily be a scum trying to avoid the duel sins of lurking and appearing too stresses."
Jim's post #263-"Ok then, if Doubtful is scum playing me into this, I'm probably really going to regret this, but I pretty much trust Doubtful right now so UNVOTE: VOTE: DMSIS" --- so wait, you've iso'd DMSIS, you've talked about him being scum for most of the game then you go out and say this shit? What sense does that make?
Jims post #265- " You have acted scummy all game. We all thought you were. Doubtful told me to hammer you. I did" Did he not just say he was concerned "doubtful is scum playing me "?
Look at this little play they've worked out in their scum meetings.
325: Doubtful writes " Oh yeah, Jimfinn, please claim. And if you're VT, PLEASE PLEASE do not claim a power role."
326: stupid fail post by jim claiming cop or something
327: OMFG UNVOTE doubtful, hurry!

vote: doubtful

[smargaret]

NO FUCK YOU SMARGRET

No thanks, I'm covered in that department :p

[smargaret]

Oh, and Doubtful, you're at L-1, so this would be a good time for a defense.

[Doubtful]

I still have a town read on Parama. Upon rereading, I am inclined to think my suspicion of Cliquey was based on the tags. Especially with his meta, I feel like Cliquey is likely town and bored, and trying to make the game more interesting.

Cliquey, you said Day 1 that you thought some of the votes on the DMSIS wagon were poorly founded, which ones?

Why would jim's hammer make me look scummy? I put DMSIS at L-1 and then encouraged a hammer with a really weak excuse (hmm... 5 people are slightly suspicious = Auto-kill) to see who would fall for the hammer. And jimfinn did. I only unvoted jimfinn because I didn't want a quickhammer of scum on the cop, putting the game into 3-player LYLO without any real suspicions.

So putting DMSIS at L-1 and encouraging a hammer was a scumhunting tactic...

DMSIS, the two real scum WOULDN'T have hammered.

That would give them away quite easily...

One scum hammer would give away scum easily as well. 1 scum dead for 1 town is BAD for scum, from a 7/2 it turns into a 4/1 within the matter of two days, which is a WORSE situation for scum. (especially if PR's are still around)

... but scum shouldn't hammer. It looks to me like he was coaching his partner and hoping to get a townie to hammer DMSIS, so there'd be an easy mislynch Day 2.

jim seemed really eager to vote for DMSIS and moose, I was testing him in particular - his wagon hopping between DMSIS and moose was exceptionally bad, I thought when I encouraged a hammer I hoped jim-scum would vote immediately, while jim-town would probably second-think it a bit... trusting me and all.

Just noticed this quote:

If DMSIS flips scum, I'll need to go back and look at how people interacted with him, especially Moose. I haven't thought about that possibility much today. It will also depend on who dies tonight.

Don't you think that me or jimfinn might be bussing? I honestly think that jimfinn is obv. bussing... (asking me if he should hammer..., trusting someone that isn't a confirmed townie and put DMSIS at L-1 with a very weak reason (only DMSIS caught on, more than one person has majority of people suspicious of them))

Very, very interesting.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from, with jimfinn listening to me so much and me saying to "distance". jim could be trying to set me up though... seeing that I encouraged something pro-scum by accident (I was ALMOST convinced that scumpair was one of the following: moose-DMSIS and jim-DMSIS...)

Oh yeah, Jimfinn, please claim. And if you're VT, PLEASE PLEASE do not claim a power role.

More coaching.

Thus,

VOTE: Doubtful

I said that because if jimfinn was indeed TOWN, and he indeed believed in LYNCHING ALL claimed VT's, he would try to claim pr so that he won't be lynched. Say if I were indeed scum. Wouldn't jim tell me about claiming something stupid like cop at night? I mean, I would have to avoid all this if he and I were indeed scum. I was just making sure that jimfinn didn't misclaim if indeed he was town.

[moose200x]

Doubtful,

If you are really town, (and your not) I want you to not defend yourself, instead, go out and make a strong case for who you think is scum.

unvote

We have the mislynch and you ARE getting hung today, do the pro-town thing and make every attempt to show us who scum is before you die.

[Doubtful]

Just to clairfy I knew it was doubtful before she did.

Doubtful's post #131- "jimfinn: Do you have any conclusions about any of the players in your PBPA? I mean, summary is good, but conclusions are everything."
Jim's post #135-" If you read my PBPA a little more closely, I explain why I think moose and Doc are the scummiest, closely followed by Mist. For now I'm going to put my VOTE: moose, but it could easily be changed to the other two if convincing arguments are made. I think Moose's odd bantering style could very easily be a scum trying to avoid the duel sins of lurking and appearing too stresses."
Jim's post #263-"Ok then, if Doubtful is scum playing me into this, I'm probably really going to regret this, but I pretty much trust Doubtful right now so UNVOTE: VOTE: DMSIS" --- so wait, you've iso'd DMSIS, you've talked about him being scum for most of the game then you go out and say this shit? What sense does that make?
Jims post #265- " You have acted scummy all game. We all thought you were. Doubtful told me to hammer you. I did" Did he not just say he was concerned "doubtful is scum playing me "?
Look at this little play they've worked out in their scum meetings.
325: Doubtful writes " Oh yeah, Jimfinn, please claim. And if you're VT, PLEASE PLEASE do not claim a power role."
326: stupid fail post by jim claiming cop or something
327: OMFG UNVOTE doubtful, hurry!

vote: doubtful

Most of your quotes are about jim looking scummy. #265 is irrevelent because jim was trying to put suspicion on me, slight distancing only. 325: I've explained. 326: I agree. 327: If jimfinn were indeed town, scum could sacrifice one of their own to put game into 3 player LYLO with nothing to be based out of. I mean, if jim claims cop after I posted 325, we'd all know that he's cop or scum...

[smargaret]

So Doubtful, if you're town, who do you think is scum?

[moose200x]

So Doubtful, if you're town, who do you think is scum?

Chick, I just asked him that, god, read.

[smargaret]

EBWOP: Moose, I count scumhunting and offering an alternative to be part of a solid defense. Not just "Why not vote for X?" but "X is scum and here's why"

[smargaret]

You asked him, he didn't answer. I'm not letting it drop.

[moose200x]

I'm not letting it drop.

Of course not you're a woman.

[Doubtful]

unvote, vote: jimfinn

Moose is not active lurking. Get that through your brain.

Trying to get jimfinn to vote for a real reason? (this is different from the one with me and jim because jim was trying to prompt me, while in this case Parama is prompting jim)

I encourage active posting, but a lot of what you're posting now is indeed spam, moose. Only post when you have something to say, not when you just want to say something.

Jim doesn't look any better after his most recent post.

His most recent post:

@Doc: Regarding my comments about you being too town, that is because you seemed to being trying too hard to appear town (e.g. saying things like "you don't want to jokingly claim scum") that certainly have the ring of a scum who wants to act like he is helping the town but really is saying something unlikely to ever be needed again this game that it doesn't really help the town that much.

As a newer player formerly used to f2f mafia, I'm still trying to get used to the day start and not being able to scumhunt based on night actions; D1 scumhunting is rather difficult for me. I certainly don't want a lynch, especially not on p3 of D1, I'm just pointing out comparatively scummy actions in the hope of starting discussion and moving past the RVS.

Just stating facts, makes a valid point on DMSIS, tries to tell the town he needs time to analyze. How's that scummy?

Jim: Why the delay in your vote on moose? If you thought he was scummiest at the time of your PBPA, why did you not only not switch your vote, but leave it on DMSIS? You unvoted in a later post but still didn't change your vote.

Prompting. Though I'm guilty of this as well.

I absolutely hate your most recent post. Everything about it reeks of scum. Arrogance, ad hominem, ignorance, etc.

unvote, vote: DMSIS

I will lynch either jim or DMSIS today. Whichever one gets a bigger wagon, I don't care which. They're both scum, and blatantly obvious scumbuddies. I refuse to lynch anyone but these two, because these are our two scum.

You seem so sure... you're definitely trying to lynch one of them, seeing that you think they are scumbuddies. I've stated that I don't quite see the relationship between jim and DMSIS, you didn't respond.

unvote

Anyone counterclaim? If there IS a counterclaim, we need to hear it NOW.

Why unvote? jim was at L-2 at that point, scum can't quickhammer and before a cc no town would put a claimed cop at L-1 (because as I said, it favors scum to do a scum-cop trade)

So I think Parama.

[Doubtful]

VOTE: Parama


Making a case on chaodck/smargaret. Can't really say much abou chaodck, I never saw him online and probably he flaked. I'm getting a town read on smargaret, elaborating next post.

[Doubtful]

ISO on smargaret:

#1: null
#2: null (want to prolong day... no points.)
#3: Complains about spoiler tag, seems like an honest complaint. Vote on moose explained with good logic - (reasons explained before, spamming, voting illogically, saying that WHY ME = FRY ME = Lynch town is true)
#4: No info - continues complaint on Cliquey when it is obvious that it is just his playing style this game - slight scumtell.
#5: null
#6: Repeats points to respond to, emphasizes responses. (pro-town)
#7: null
#8: null
#9: I still don't quite see how DMSIS could be town after claiming Mafia RB... though you make a good point from other context, and keep an open mind about things.
#10: Explain.
#11: Explains new suspicions.
#12: Posts reasons against jimfinn, prompting discussion in case of mislynch on jimfinn and overall benefit to town: considers possibility that I may be bussing. (pro-town)
#13: Nightkill speculation, creates WIFOM about it. Anti-town.
#14: Asks jimfinn for clarification on question.
#15: null
#16: Continues making points about me, and my relation with jim.

If I haven't made an adequate response to this yet, in my opinion jim's hammer has nothing to do with me, other than me being very suspicious of him

#17: null...
#18: null.

Please elaborate your town-read on Parama

#19: Makes a good point about doc action. (null)
#20: Trying to continue discussion in twilight (pro-town)
#21: Post suspecting me.
#22: null
#23: DUH!
#24: Give me some time please
#25: null
#26: I don't understand.

All in all, I have mixed opinions about smargaret, leaning pro-town though.

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 3x1 ::

moose200x (0) -
smargaret (0) -
Doubtful (1) -

smargaret

Parama (1) -

Doubtful

Cliquey (0) -

Not Voting (3) -

moose200x, Parama, Cliquey

With 5 Alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline - September 15, 2010 8:00PM EST.

[smargaret]

Parama has provided consistent, well-reasoned scumhunting and analysis. I believe he was also the first to push a case against jimfinn, way back on day 1. Now, it's possible that he was doing some sort of elaborate bussing scheme, but if I were scum and bussing my partner, I wouldn't do it day 1 and I wouldn't be pushing a case against him when nobody's suspicious and there are other people with significant wagons. Also, my gut says so.

[moose200x]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2447608 = post 118

List (scummiest at top, townest at bottom - self-excluded)
Moose
DMSIS
Black Mist
Cliquey
Parama
Johannes

Doubtful
Chaodck

put here because they haven't done anything pro=town or anti=town, so impossible to get a good read.

So, let's remove the dead and confirmed town.

List (scummiest at top, townest at bottom - self-excluded)
Cliquey
Parama
Johannes

Doubtful
Chaodck

put here because they haven't done anything pro=town or anti=town, so impossible to get a good read.

I love how he left doubtful in the null zone.

Also, jim said "Doubtful - exchanges in early banter regarding his name; Says DMSIS is pushing a wagon too far on Moose, and that DMSIS relies too much on others' opinions."

I love how jim did not give any opinion or thought or anything, he just COPIED WHAT DOUBT HAD SAID!

This is game over doubt.



OH and ps. if cliquey is mafia, that's fucking sad.

[Doubtful]

I believe he was also the first to push a case against jimfinn, way back on day 1. Now, it's possible that he was doing some sort of elaborate bussing scheme, but if I were scum and bussing my partner, I wouldn't do it day 1 and I wouldn't be pushing a case against him when nobody's suspicious and there are other people with significant wagons.

WIFOM.

I agree that he has provided well-reasoned scumhunting, I just don't like his prompting of jim consistantly, and his sureness in himself when he points out DMSIS and jim (trying to gain town points for being so sure, almost tunneling on both of them only. Also, my gut doesn't say so.

Preview: Moose, jimfinn is scum. He can do w/e he wants, you can't say anything about me from it. He could easily be framing me. Meanwhile, focus on me and tell me how I implied outer knowledge about who the scum are with my posts and my hints towards jim being related.

[Doubtful]

Oh, and moose your point about copying what I've said is null. In that post, as I have already mentioned, jim basically summarized for everyone.

[moose200x]

Oh, and moose your point about copying what I've said is null. In that post, as I have already mentioned, jim basically summarized for everyone.

So, doubt, have you made your final decision on who you'd like to see lynched tomorrow?

[Doubtful]

moose200x - I have stated my opinions on smargaret and Parama - I think Parama is scum. You're confirmed town, so obviously you'd be nk'd (assuming we are right and there is indeed no doc), leaving town with Parama, smargaret, and Cliquey. Yes, I would go for Parama.

[smargaret]

Doubtful, how is that WIFOM? I acknowledge a possible rebuttal, and then I explain why my interpretation is better than the rebuttal. It's a standard argument technique.

Moose, after Doubtful, who do you find the scummiest?