Magician's Mafia: The Hypnotists, Game Over

[GhostWriter]

Shit, shit, shit, fuck me sideways! I forgot about not quoting! No complaining either, I'm in about 7 or 8 games, alive in, I think, 3 or 4 and still watching the others. That said, it ain't happening again.

[Tasky]

Ok, so here comes my big catch up. I am going to do this chronologically starting from beginning of day 2. I am going to analyze certain things on day 1 on request but it just get's too much otherwise.

• GhostWriter 335/336: you know what they say about the "well-that-sucks-tell", right?
  
• Katsuki 338: slight scumtell. useless comment and goes in the "w-t-s" too.
  
• Katsuki 340: the "vote for stretching" part is just awful. first impression of Katsuki already is scum now.
  
• Toogeloo 341: the first paragraph is total bullshit. the rest of the case on Seraphim is solid, but he hasn't done anything REALLY scummy. I'd really like to hear a defense though and do agree that he is the worst lurker.
  
• I'm not going to comment on Raz unless I see a connection with another player.
  
• Ellibereth 353: What do you mean with the "Black Mists's entire Iso"-thing. haven't seen any ISO on him by you.
  
• Black Mist 357: This post really looks horrible
  a priori
  . If is AtE. But I kind of understand her and I don't think her attitude is scummy. Black Mists, I'd like you to start actually scumhunting. You may have a different playing style, that doesn't necessarily mean your conclusions have to be wrong. I'd just want to hear those conclusions.
  
• Ellibereth 359: I don't think I like this post. You really seem serious about Black Mist. I fully understand the
  theory
  behind it, but I also think you have to see what's ACTUALLY happening. Black Mist
  could
  be scum, I am not denying that. I just don't think she is scum
  because
  of her current playing style
  
• GhostWriter 366: I start disliking how GW continues to post the obvious and try too look like he put much effort into it.
  
• danakillsu 368: what you are
  saying
  is total bullshit. that "excuse to kill a townie" - thing just makes no sense. BUT I felt too that something was fundamentally wrong with the D1 hammer. Wouldn't know what, though. Maybe it will emerge later
  
• Toogeloo 370: Well, technically it's OMGUS. And I absolutely do not like the "Too quite" - line.
  
• Antihero 372: please explain this post a little better. I absolutely did not understand your reasons behind it.
  
• Razgriz 373: I
  could
  see this as a scum-bus. I'll have to do an analysis on Razgriz's voting pattern though to really judge that.
  
• GhostWriter 378: hmm. I do not know what this whole coaching is supposed to be. we are not in a newbie game. But it does make me feel a little better about you, because I felt like doing something similar some minutes ago. Don't know you though, maybe you coach as scum too.
  
• Toogeloo 379: This post does not feel right at all. First I think it's scummy in general to talk to someone else as if they were an authority. It's definitely a form of buddying. Also I find your early claim-fish scummy here.
  
• danakillsu 386: Why the hell are you claiming so early? You are definitely NOT making you look more pro-town to me.
  
• Ellibereth 392: If you are so sharp as you claim, how comes you haven't caught Raz yet. I know it's easy to talk after the flip, but he was REALLY scummy.
  
• Ellibereth 394: See, you saw Raz's scummyness (at least it looks that way). I don't understand why you kept him out of your suspects. Didn't want to lose your scumbuddy without fight?
  
• Razgriz 398: I lol'd at this post.
  
• Katsuki 399: I kinda like this post. makes me feel better about you again. but weren't you
  already
  voting Raz?
  
• danakillsu 401: this post looks extremely forced. scummy.
  
• Razgriz 402 doesn't look like a bus to me, actually.
  
• Katsuki 409/MPR 414: Why would he claim early D1? Is that how you would play as Miller? Why?
  
• Toogeloo 419: Trying to save your buddy? I totally do not understand how you can really believe what you said. considering you also brought evidence
  against
  your own point in the post after. scum-points for you, dude.
  
• Toogeloo 450: It starts to really get scummy how much you focus on lurkers.
  
• Toogeloo 454: The third paragraph is really scummy. You are contradicting yourself badly. on one side you say we should hunt for the worst lurker, on the other side you think there is scum to be found in the active players.
  
• Toogeloo 459: That seraphim-martyr-story is just nonsense, why don't you just drop it?
  
• danakillsu 477: You are far from cleared, but I don't think you should be our lynch today.
  
• Katsuki 491: Why are you in such a hurry to lynch?
  
• Ellibereth 492: You are aware that the last time you posted a similar analysis you were NOT saying to vote Raz?
  
• GhostWriter 500 looks terrible anxious. that is a slight scumtell in my eyes.

Conclusion:
I think dana is playing bad. I actually don't think he is so confirmed scum as someone pretends him to be. However, I DO think that Toogeloo is scum. The evidence I showed is slim, I know, but I think it is absolutely not to dismiss. additionally something about him just doesn't add up; call it a feeling but I really do not get a town-read from him.
Also I do not Ellibereth as so confirmed town as you all seem to do. He started the "sheep me or die"-attitude in a Fate-ish manner but it somehow felt forced to me, especially as he hasn't really been consequent about it. I have no real reasons for believing him to be scum, but I also have absolutely no town-reads from him.

[Ellibereth]

lol

[Ellibereth]

Tasky is town and my eyes now hurt.

[Ellibereth]

I'm not staring at those links anymore.
You don't like Panda cuz of of gut + lurker obsess or did I miss something?

[Ellibereth]

Dana could you post your last few scum games.

[Ellibereth]

Oh yeah...I'll get my reads together later. Totally forgot.

[danakillsu]

There's A Clash of Kings (Still in the Large Theme Queue) and Reck's Mad Mind (Same Place). I'm not going to post links, cause that's too much work.
I somewhat agree with Tasky's analysis, although saying that I am playing badly is an incorrect statement. I always appear to be playing badly, but it is really just my playstyle. I make no bones about giving my opinions and catching scum, and it looks strange to more reserved, "objective" players.

[Ellibereth]

I basically want meta-"proof" or whatever supporting of your statement that you wouldn't have uber-bussed if you got it.

[MehPlusRawr]

[*]Katsuki 409/MPR 414: Why would he claim early D1? Is that how you would play as Miller? Why?

This is the generally accepted way to play miller, claim D1 so you don't claim after a cop investigation.

[GhostWriter]

Remember to not quote, MPR.

As for Tasky, you mispreresented a lot of what I said. 335/336, I do not know of that tell. However, I don't think my post implied that. Fate was town. That was obvious. Protective role should have been there, assuming we have one. If they were not, I don't know why, though I intend to find out after the game. 366 was a direct response to Raz's post above mine. It seemed like Raz was using sarcasm. 500 was me getting mad at myself for quoting. How is it anxious? And anxious about what, precisely?

[MehPlusRawr]

Ugh, sorry.

[Toogeloo]

IN RESPONSE TO TASKY

(all your problems with me answered with why I posted them)

Toogeloo 341: the first paragraph is total bullshit. the rest of the case on Seraphim is solid, but he hasn't done anything REALLY scummy. I'd really like to hear a defense though and do agree that he is the worst lurker.

-Your point of view I guess. Did you not see how Seraphim stated that the Martyr wasn't worth analyzing, and then later said that a Martyr can choose when to sacrifice himself? I've personally never heard of the role, but what kind of martyr takes the bullet for a town on Night 0? I do not believe at all that Magna was martyred and instead think he was chosen to be killed, therefore I detest anyone who tells me not to analyze a kill at night for it.

Toogeloo 370: Well, technically it's OMGUS. And I absolutely do not like the "Too quite" - line.

-I have been saying "too quiet", "slow day", and other "I wish activity would pick up" slogans all game. I come from a site where game days are 48 hours and nights are 24 hours. I am still relatively new on this site, and I get antsy for activity. I wear my heart on my sleeve when it comes to content (and lack of it pisses me off since I am more analytical than gutsy), so I post things like that to let people know, in a not-so-subtle way that I despise the pace.

As for the OMGUS, I blatantly did that on purpose, or did you not pick that up? I figured dana was fishing for a reason to vote me, and I didn't like it. He stated my hammer was a scummy vote when in fact it should not have been. I told him his vote was scummy, and returned the favor.

Toogeloo 379: This post does not feel right at all. First I think it's scummy in general to talk to someone else as if they were an authority. It's definitely a form of buddying. Also I find your early claim-fish scummy here.

-The intent of the post was to get some conversation going. Out of every one in the game, I lean town on GW the most, I specifically asked his opinion because of this. This game is a team game, even for us uninformed majority. A little trust needs to be used from time to time, but blindly following or sheeping should not be tolerated.

Toogeloo 419: Trying to save your buddy? I totally do not understand how you can really believe what you said. considering you also brought evidence

against

your own point in the post after. scum-points for you, dude.

-I have never been a Miller in my entire career of Mafia, but I have seen several people claim Miller. More games than not, a day 1 Miller claim has been scum in my games played. Two times have I seen a Day 1 Miller claim be Miller, and one was when they countered another Miller claim on Day 1. I am sure there have been a lot games where Day 1 Miller claims have been Millers, but I have not partook in any of them, and on the site I predominantly played prior, Millers generally try to act as pro-town as possible and avoid being scanned at all.

My confusion was the claim itself. No one claimed a scan on him, Raz could have simply claimed Vanilla, so why claim Miller? I was not expecting the claim from him, so I was undoubtedly confused at the tactic. I was trying to consider various reasons behind the claim since it struck me as a left field type of play. I even said he was looked awful, but I was WIFOMing myself into thinking he could have just been an idiot.

Toogeloo 450: It starts to really get scummy how much you focus on lurkers.

-I really hate lurkers, of all my losses, lurkers are the predominant factor. Many times, they are scum letting town pick themselves apart, other times they are town making it easier for scum to manipulate the actives. The length of days plays a big factor I think... again, this stems from my other mafia site experience from faster days. And again, this is just me wearing my heart on my sleeve since it pisses me off and is in every game I play.

Toogeloo 454: The third paragraph is really scummy. You are contradicting yourself badly. on one side you say we should hunt for the worst lurker, on the other side you think there is scum to be found in the active players.

-It's both. I don't believe all the scum are on one side or the other. Raz flipping scum makes it fairly obvious that at least one scum was trying to be active, but someone could have been bussing him. At the time I posted it, I was thinking of a likely 4 scum team, 2 were probably active, and 2 were probably lurking or inactive. Since we have a large degree of lurkers, I posted we may need to look into who is the worst lurker (and quite ironically, you stated Seraphim was the worst lurker in your own analysis).

Toogeloo 459: That seraphim-martyr-story is just nonsense, why don't you just drop it?

-Probably because I am semi-tunneled on him, and since he doesn't deliver anything else to work with, it remains part of my view of his character.

Conclusion:
I think dana is playing bad. I actually don't think he is so confirmed scum as someone pretends him to be. However, I DO think that Toogeloo is scum. The evidence I showed is slim, I know, but I think it is absolutely not to dismiss. additionally something about him just doesn't add up; call it a feeling but I really do not get a town-read from him.
Also I do not Ellibereth as so confirmed town as you all seem to do. He started the "sheep me or die"-attitude in a Fate-ish manner but it somehow felt forced to me, especially as he hasn't really been consequent about it. I have no real reasons for believing him to be scum, but I also have absolutely no town-reads from him.

So in the end of all this long post, you DO think I am scum, and yet you didn't vote me. Are you waiting for someone else to start a wagon hoping you may have ignited something?

[Toogeloo]

I think what I hate about slow days versus 48 hour days is that I always want to F5 and see if anyone responds to me on a slow day and it never happens, where as in a 48 hour day, I can make a post and get about a half dozen responses within a few minutes.

48 hour game days are not uncommon to have over 4000 posts in a single game lol.


Also,

it has now been over 48 hours since day start... requesting prods please.

[Katsuki]

Comparing this game to my 70page+ D1 of another game, this is terrible.

Honestly, I think less than half the players have posted thus far today.

I still think dana lynch is the way to go.

QUOTES NEED TO STOP, NAO.

[danakillsu]

@Ellibereth
Unfortunately, I'm usually the first scum lynched if I'm scum. So I guess the only one where I can help you a lot there is Star Wars Mafia.

[petroleumjelly]

Day Three Vote Count #1

2 danakillsu (Katsuki, MehPlusRawr)
1 Black Mist (Cogito Ergo Sum)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch, and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is October 17 at 3:20 p.m. CST.

Not Voting – 9 – Antihero, Black Mist, danakillsu, Ellibereth, GhostWriter, Rockerboo, Seraphim, Tasky, Toogeloo

Note

: Black Mist, Seraphim, and Rockerboo have been prodded.

Edit #1

: GhostWriter changed to not voting.

[danakillsu]

Katsuki iso:
Iso 2: Essentially says that the gandalf wagon appears to be a scum-driven wagon because of my switching votes, but votes gandalf anyway.
Isos 3-21: Lurks insanely hard. He promises plenty of material and gives none of it. Classic scum tactic.
Iso 23: Votes Razgriz to avoid him quoting again. Not great reasoning there...
Iso 25: Unvotes and votes...Razgriz? What's up with that?
Iso 33: Unvotes again, and doesn't vote Razgriz the rest of the day. Looks like an excuse to take his vote off to give his scumpal more of a chance.
Isos 38-41: Says I am scum or should be lynched in all four posts. Does he give a single sentence of reasoning? Nooooo.
Call it OMGUS if you want. I've given you everything you should need.

vote: Katsuki

By the way, I'm kind of liking this game. Can we please not let it die?

[Toogeloo]

Didn't GhostWriter unvote sometime back?

And Rockerboo hasn't posted at all the entire game, did he even confirm that he was going to play?

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I want more people to post (don't understand why people think they can stop in, place a vote, and never post again, and I won't mention lurkers [oh, whoops...]), but I also want Tasky back here so I can hear more of his theories. After that big ass post, I thought for sure he would come back swinging at me.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: some time back being last page, lolactivity.

[Tasky]

• MPR 509 DO NOT DARE TO QUOTE ME AGAIN! Btw: I do not agree with you. I don't think Miller should claim early (at least not always).
  
• Ghostwriter 510... look here. 500 was anxious becouse you feared to get attacked for quoting. so you wanted to show how much you were angry at yourself
  
• Toogeloo 512:
  -> I do not think scum would lie just to not have a night kill analyzed, considering there wasn't much to analyze anyway
  -> Oh sorry about that "too quite" thing. I thought you meant it as a scumtell againt danakillsu
  -> You can ask a specific players opinion without showing that you are sure they are town. You never know. You better do not take the pressure away so quickly. Additionally, couldn't you have just spoken to the town in general? And then, I can't really see how GhostWriter is so confirmed town you make it look.
  -> Well, stop WIFOM'ing then.
  -> I'm too pissed by lurkers, but that doesn't make them necessarily scum. There are players who don't like to be town and therefore post less. Or players who simply have RL-issues. Or players who flaked totally independently of alignment.
  -> I see Seraphim as the worst lurker. That doesn't mean he is scum. Just that he is lurking most and in the most anti-town way.
  -> lol. is that something you are proud of?
  -> Re: Re: Conclusion: Yeah, you are right: VOTE: Toogeloo
  
• @Mod
  : is the semi-quoting thing Toogeloo did in post 512 considered quoting?

[danakillsu]

Not a single comment on my case on Katsuki?

[MehPlusRawr]

Case?

Oh. That was a case. Meh.

let's lynch Dana now.

[Katsuki]

Dana said: "Iso 33: Unvotes again, and doesn't vote Razgriz the rest of the day. Looks like an excuse to take his vote off to give his scumpal more of a chance."

This is ridiculous misrep. You can go back and read, I unvoted to prevent exactly what happened yesterday, raz self-hammering (quickhammering too).

ISO 25 doesn't mean anything. So I didn't remember that I was already voting Raz, your point?
ISO 23 is poor reasoning because... I lynched scum?

Did not get time to get to the rest of it. However, I do not get why Dana is not hanging yet.

[danakillsu]

Lol. MPR, you're not even trying. This is so ridiculous, because the people who see my points and are not voting for me don't post here much. This game has turned into a lurk-a-thon with the people who want me dead occasionally popping in to throw out unbacked statements.