Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[andrew94]

because that is a possible scerniao, an outed jk can never die (unless crap happens)
and i thought if batt were scum he would have claimed doctor, so the outed doctor either dies or gets roleblocked and protected by the jk, wasting both their abilities.

[farside22]

Archer:
I got newb read on Archer through out day 1. I looked into a game that he was in archer town
There are some glaring difference between his play here and there. He made cases in that game, which are lacking here, I see more following, then pushing of a lurker (egg) then anything else. My biggest problem with Archer he has yet to make a case on anyone. Most of his post are full of uncertainty or answering questions.
I get a sliding by scum feel rereading him in this game and evaluating his other game.

[farside22]

@Looker:

Why do you still think Andrew is scum after nacho and batt flip?
Why did you say nothing during the Batt argument going on for a few pages or have opinion on it?
Why do you think SoS is not scum?
Why did you vote for bella over AntB when both were doing the same thing according to you here

I'm still not liking looker. Maybe it was my meta research from earlier, but it's not something I can put to words well.


I know, i know there are other players in the game, but I got a good read on CN and Lord. DP I'm not sure about as I still haven't gotten to know him or have a gut feel on him. Broken had a good feel on him at the begining but seems to have posted less.
So I still would like to do broken and DP read before finally analysis time.
At this point leading scum in my view:

AntB
SoS
Archer
Looker

[Bella]

Guys, just posting to let you know I'll probably be v/la until the weekend or so due to a family thing.

[brokenscraps]

Sorry for the absence of posts ya'll, I've been caught up with other issues.

• AntB's vote for andrew is off-putting. So is the lack of built case you proposed you'd bring.
  
• Andrew commenting on my "not good ness", while humorous, is understandable, seeing as my avatar is a warmongering Nazi cyborg. If that's not the "not good ness" you were referring to, then I don't know what you mean.
  
• Bella's response to andrew's answer is also off-putting...off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh. Her exploitation of the WIFOM induced by Nachomamma's final rundown is also off-putting...off-putting, opportunistic, and scummy. UNVOTE: VOTE: Bella

Because Bella uses more words than "off-putting" in her response it it "off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh"? I'm not getting it, the response is reasonable and this is weak reasoning for voting Bella. I really don't know what to make of it.

But what I really don't know what to make of is why Bella's reaction is off-putting and exaggerating when AntB responding to a similar (the same?) post from the same player is off-putting but not vote worthy. How is Bella's response worse than AntB's considering you have claimed problems with both? FOS your buddy vote for town, that old trick perhaps?

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 2 Vote Tally

11 players remain; 6 votes needed for a lynch.

AntB (3)

- Bella, DavidParker, andrew94

smashbro_of_the_SSS (3)

- lord_hur, brokenscraps, farside22

andrew94 (1)

- AntB

Bella (1)

- Looker

Yet to vote (3): Egg, smashbro_of_the_SSS, Archer
====================================

I'll run an activity check in just a bit.

[Archer]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

[Egg]

I think it may benefit town to keep my actions to myself for the following reasons:
1. I don't want scum to see how I'm deciding who I target.
2. We may be able to catch someone lying when they claim.

Vote Smashbro

[farside22]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

Someone not making cases and withholding information does not help the town. Yes my observation is based on your last game play in comparison, but knowing that you can actually make a case and scum hunt makes me question your play here. I see nothing wrong with looking at people's play, as I have done it throughout the game.
You are 3rd on the list but I don't like people who ignored Batt and are more lurky get scum pointsl.

[AntB]

Caught up as much as I'm going to.

Andrew is scum, if not then kill me.

The latest vote on me from him makes me chuckle.

@andrew
WHY do you need to be asked 9 times to justify your D1 vote on me? you made 13 posts between voting me and justifying it.

behold the epic-ness:

antb, i dont care.

vote antb

why has nobody pulled him on this? Other than "tagging for later"? DavidParker gains a +1 at this point.

@andrew94: How long before you justify this vote Andrew? 15 pages?

When asked about suspects D1:

antb- for reasons stated
lord_hur comes in , seconds the policy lynch, BUT doesnt vote. comments on bella is not a 'newb' then says ' i was just pointing it out, adding to the case' then 'fos david for interprating it otherwise???'
and batt

What happened to change it to:

suspects apart from antb, [farside22]

and looker? "due to sence of not good ness when i read his iso.

What specifically? indulge me.

Also, you posted your suspects when I asked, I had to ask twice admittedly..
I've asked you 3 separate questions..
The first one took you 13 posts to answer, I asked why you were voting me..
The second took you 2 posts to answer, I asked you who your suspects were/.
The third one you answer immediately and dismiss the question, I asked why it took you so long to answer the first.

I press again, why so long to answer why did you take so long to answer why you voted me? You might not care but I certainly do.

The rest is seemingly half assed questions which are never followed up on and no use 1-liners.

[AntB]

@Archer
there was a spam attack on another site which I had to handle...

@All
I have a couple more I need to look at and potentially build a case on, not happening at 3AM however.

[DavidParker]

Andrew is scum, if not then kill me.

I hate posts like this :/

[lord_hur]

Andrew is scum, if not then kill me.

I hate posts like this :/

Why?

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

You're wrong. If cases were not made, nobody would post anything and mafia would be a game of dice. Cases need to be made to obtain exploitable reactions. But if you have to "manufacture" a case, it's not a case. A case isn't a completely (or mostly) artificial construct. You get town points for this, though, as it's very consistent with some earlier posts from you.

[andrew94]

Andrew is scum, if not then kill me.

I hate posts like this :/

ffs is antB zelink/ or that guy?
your statement has no logic, antb, 'him then me', is like antitown

[Looker]

sorry, missed it. and yeah, it was within the day of the lynch, right before i went to bed. I really can't say anything other than i forgot. I know it's a horrible excuse, but that's really what happened. Nothing really else to say about it.

• This I believe. Coupled with your mention of you being in college, I can see how an online typing game with strangers could drop down the priority list.
  
• I like you noticing Bella's not taking a stance when she first replaced in and was asked for suspicions.
  
• And I like you questioning my suspicions when I no longer expressed them of you. Put that with how easily and with no opposition everyone jumped on you for not posting and I could see scum gettin' a free ride for today.

---

• RE:farside calling me out for weak reasoning:
  • When you say "everything going on D1", that's really generic and ambiguous. Is there something specific you're referring to?
  • I think jumping right in using WIFOM induced by Nacho's scumlist is scummy. "Nacho said X was scum and Y was town and then scum killed him so he must be right." Seems like an easy setup.
• RE:farside's questioning and general dislike of me:
  • Andrew's on the backburner, but I'd still say he's scum sooner than not simply because I have no reason to think otherwise.
  • I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't even remember reading what wasn't directly addressed to me.
  • I think the sotS wagon is too convenient - and irrationally so - for him to be scum. I can't see why no one even
    suggested
    that sotS just might not care or was only checking in because he was bored. I do this from time to time.
  • AntB didn't suggest we lynch someone just because last night's NK called them scum. Bella did.
• RE:brokenscrap's weak attempt at ridicule
  • Leave insinuated insults to the professionals. Also, see above.
• RE:Egg's refusal to claim his night action
  • If you had no intention of claiming in the first place, why ask everybody? I'm on the fence about you.

[farside22]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't even remember reading what wasn't directly addressed to me.

Why does anyone have to ask you a question to be involved in what is going on in the game?

You switched your vote to bella for 1 post. Saying it's off-putting which is the same phrase you use on Andrew.
There is more then 1 page to this game.
I didn't say the second thing. But here is some WIFOM (1) scum don't kill Nacho he continues his attack on AntB (2) They kill Nacho people wonder if AntB was scum then question if it was a ruse.
That is why I don't WIFOM night kills. Talk to Lord Hur or Bella on that one.
I'm going on what I read yesterday on who I believe is scum.

more later

[DavidParker]

I realize my content has been lacking of late, even my lasts posts have sucked. I'll definitely be able to post more soon I have the weekend off work.

@lord_hur: well.. Obvious reasons. For one thing, we lynch Andrew and he flips town... Will antb actually sacrifice himself at that point? no. So the post is a lie for a start. It's just a way of AntB saying, "Hey I am 80-90% sure andrew is scum". But he's posted in such a way that it is really ATE because he knows he is a likely lynch candidate so he is getting desperate at this point to put the lynch on anyone but himself. I see it more likely to come from scum than town, as there's more motive for scum to say "lynch this guy and if he flips town then lynch me" from a slot that has a probable lynch candidate. Essentially, I can see antb trying to get a mislynch before his own lynch, rather than seeing himself lynched today, then andrew appearing town because of a scum-flip on himself.

I don't see why town-AntB would have posted as such.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Alrighty, first off

vote: antb

Don't particularly like antb's case on andrew, seems like he's trying to pick on a weaker target, by voting andrew for playing pretty much the way he always does. Granted I usually don't like andrew's style either, but in my opinion andrew pressured Batt too much to be scum. andrew was on him right from the start. I don't see a scumbuddy bussing someone who replaced in that much.

antb, again, hasn't said pretty much anything to Batt when he was acting scummy. Interestingly enough, antb asked about the deadline policy, whether it would be a no-lynch or a majority lynch, and then doesn't come on to vote Batt after the claim. ( kettle black, I know. point still stands. )

[farside22]

@smash: Who else do you find scummy and why?
@Bella: I would like the same from you. It's day 2 no excuses.

[Looker]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

• Seconded.

Alrighty, first off

vote: antb

Don't particularly like antb's case on andrew, seems like he's trying to pick on a weaker target, by voting andrew for playing pretty much the way he always does. Granted I usually don't like andrew's style either, but in my opinion andrew pressured Batt too much to be scum. andrew was on him right from the start. I don't see a scumbuddy bussing someone who replaced in that much.

antb, again, hasn't said pretty much anything to Batt when he was acting scummy. Interestingly enough, antb asked about the deadline policy, whether it would be a no-lynch or a majority lynch, and then doesn't come on to vote Batt after the claim. ( kettle black, I know. point still stands. )

• Kettle black, you're right. UNVOTE: VOTE: smashbro_of_the_SSS

---

• farside
  • Not everything is relevant to me; some things I leave for only the involved parties until it becomes relevant to me.
    
  • I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were WIFOMing anything; I was asserting that Bella was.
    
  • Either way, I wasted a vote yesterday. If it's going to be sotS against AntB; I'd rather lynch sotS.
• Btw, V/LA for the next 2 days.

[Archer]

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

[Egg]

Looker, I asked because I wasn't sure. I'm leaning towards not sharing, but opinions matter.

[Egg]

Analysis of Jesse/Batt's interactions with other players

Quotes from Jesse about other players:
Broken:
The case on brokenscraps was just idiotic.

Farside:
farside completely hit the nail on the head

AntB:
1.I think antB comes off looking bad in that little exchange. I mean seriously, who pushes something like that? I also feel like he's panicking for absolutely no reason, and that doesn't sit well with me.
2.I don't understand the overdefensiveness on his play so early in the game. It doesn't make any sense to me, what can you possibly be worried about that you're so freaked out over others not understanding your case? And then going on to break it down completely was just so unnecessary. It doesn't sit right with me.
3.Your whole quote was overdefensive and in my opinion, being overdefensive is panicking. And what exactly are you being defiant against?
4.Oh, you mean the unnecessary attitude? I suppose you can categorize it as "defiant", although that's a little bit rich of a word to use for a snarly little side comment.

Chaotic/lord:
1C.This is weird to me. Why push it farther when you know you're wrong instead off attempting to twist it around and make it into something it isn't?
1L.So basically if Archer doesn't flip scum your entire case is built on crap then, right?

Egg:
I half agree with Egg though. Meaning I don't believe in half-jokes but not for the reasons Egg threw out there.

Smashbro:
I think anybody stating that they're "slightly serious" or they "kind of" agree or are "pretty sure" are all just cop-outs. Ways to excuse themselves if they get attacked over it.

Nacho:
And for the record, I agree with this-

Archer:
So basically if Archer doesn't flip scum your [lord's] entire case is built on crap then, right?

No mention of (total posts before Jesse's last Jan 21 3AM):
Andrew (20)
David/Midnight (1)
Looker/Magn (7)
Bella/Shotty (13)

Quotes from Batt about other players:
David/Midnight:
1.DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town (Explains this a lot, not going to keep including it)
2.Vote: Nacho as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town.
3.When you [David] replace in and quickly call the leading lynch [Nacho] town, I find that scummy.

Nacho:
1.DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town (Explains this a lot, not going to keep including it)
2.260- Smashbro "getting on the wagon" without voting = probable town if nacho is town, scum if nacho is scum (He goes into detail on this a few times. No need to include it repeatedly)
3.Vote: Nacho as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town.
4. My post is in reference to Nacho 2/4. That's not nearly entirely. It wasn't an attack on Nacho, it was an attack on the 4 people I was referencing. Nacho vote is because others find him scummy, and I'm happy with his lynch for the information, thus putting him at L-1 isn't an issue.
5.Nacho 349- See previous post, I tried to clarify some things. I know it seems a bit scummy that I'm "changing" what I said, but really, I misunderstood what I wrote, and I mistyped what I was thinking. If I have to blame it on something, it would be that I made my original post right around the time I usually go to bed (8 am classes, 1 hr drive).
6.Not liking the fact that Nacho is defending is lurking by saying it's intentionally and that he has pegged 2 scum. Until he comes up with 2 strong cases, I find this very suspect.
7.we would be better off with lynching Nacho and the links "I've" made would put us in a better position. Which is why I said I'd vote Nacho, but would be willing to switch to Bella if there aren't enough votes for Nacho (though with his intentional lurking comment, I'm still waiting on him to give us the information he gleamed as he said he pegged 2 scum, with a not so slightly veiled attack on farside).
8.Nacho- Gambit? When I gambit as scum, I tend to weigh how I expect people to react, especially if they are newbies or if I've played with them before (this game that would be you, andrew, AntB, farside, looker, and to a lesser extent smashbro). But claiming SCUM GAMBIT!!!11!! isn't much of a case, especially if I only managed to "trick" farside into believing what I wanted the town to believe. Nice try. Also, you said you were intentionally lurking to be snarky towards Farside, why were you really lurking?

Bella/Shotty:
1S.249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum
1B.Will be willing to switch to Bella.
2.He [Shotty] is requesting replacement for hurting the town. He [Shotty] was replaced by Bella.
3.Requesting replacement is null. Requesting replacement because you are hurting town, scummy. Maybe not a D2/D3 vote, but it's good enough for a D1 vote.
4.I think the person who would most likely flip scum would be Bella. However, D2, I feel we would be better off with lynching Nacho

Smashbro:
1.260- Smashbro "getting on the wagon" without voting = probable town if nacho is town, scum if nacho is scum (He goes into detail on this a few times. No need to include it repeatedly)
2.Vote: Nacho as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure

Farside:
298- Farside gives her scum meta ("I try to avoid scum bussing D1") = null leaning scum

Andrew:
1.So, what are you [Andrew] saying? Should I wait until the [Nacho] flip, then say Y is scum/town? Or should I ignore flips completely? I don't see how you can call it BS. I agree not all mafia games are like that, but using flips to mark a particular action as protown or proscum is decent way to find scum.
2.Andrew- scum. Well, not really. I dislike his playstyle so I'm always a bit biased against him. Last game I played with him, I tried to get him lynched because of his play style. This game, he is playing similarly, though I haven't seen him call anyone names yet.

lord:
1.My thoughts on Lord_hur- He last post I responded to, he attacks me in it. He says I'm not explaining my reason well, when in fact, I wasn't explaining it to him but to Farside who didn't respond back to it at the time. I see it as an attack, as he says I didn't explain my reasoning well which he wouldn't know if it was sufficient until Farside responds. But overall, I see it as town latching onto who's in the spotlight, as his other posts seem like he is scumhunting.
2.Lord_Hur- Way to take it out of context... That post was taken from the scum qt, taken N3. At that time, both of my partners were quicklynched D2/D3 without me even being on to help defend nor attack them (to manipulate town). I was very vulnerable with being the last scum alive with 5 town. Of course I didn't want the spotlight put on me. That quote doesn't even say that I don't like it as scum, just that I didn't like it at that time.

AntB:
1.Concerning AntB- My only experience with him was the last game I played, he was lynched D1. The reason being seemed to be that he was more strict with his vote which appeared like fence sitting. (looking back, I find it humourous that he called the town/town neighbors the scum team before he was lynched ) This game he seems to vote more freely. I will have to read some more games on him before I would be tempted to vote him.
2.AntB- Which is why I have to look up more of your meta before I would consider voting you (don't have the time today).

Worth noting that Andrew, Farside, and Lord ask Batt about his connections and his point on Bella/Shotty.

No mention of (total posts before Day 1 ended Feb 1 12:08AM):
Looker (10)
Archer (23)
Egg (10)
Broken, except to respond to him twice (27)

My thoughts on each player's possibility of being scum with Jesse/Batt, in order of likliness:
Archer- Jesse's only mention looks like a buddy and Archer is the most active on Batt's "no mention" list
Looker (Replacing: slMagnvox)- Was never mentioned by either player.

brokenscraps- Hard to tell. Jesse attacks the case on broken while Batt doesn't really say much about him. I can see the link.
smashbro_of_the_SSS- I can see him as a buddy. Batt seems eager to clear him with Nacho's flip. Jesse's post looks less buddyish though.
farside22- Jesse agreed with something she said and Batt didn't say much, but Farside's questioning of Batt looks legit.

Bella (Replacing: drmyshottyizsik)- This is the one I'm wavering on. Batt attacked Bella pretty hard, but shifted his focus elsewhere when it came time to lynch. Also on Jesse's "no mention" list
andrew94- Jesse seemed to ignore him even though he was posting. Batt's part doesn't look like scumbuddy interaction though.

lord_hur (Replacing: Chaotic Neutrality)- Jesse's attacks on lord and lord's on Batt weren't buss'y at all.
AntB- Jesse genuinely wanted him lynched and Batt avoided the wagon on AntB.
DavidParker (Replacing: MidnightHike)- I think he's obvtown. Batt set himself up to have to tunnel if Nacho is town, which I think he is. I'd change my mind if Nacho were to flip scum.
Egg- I know I'm town

Wow, I forgot Nacho died and flipped town. I'm leaving stuff about him on here, but yeah, that's what happened.

Archer's posts to/about Jesse/Batt:
1.I'll review the two major wagons (Batt and nacho) so that we dont get a no lynch. My vote will likely end on Batt since nacho is coming off more like town lately, but this needs a full reread.
2.My reread has not gleened anything new. I still have a stronger feeling that nacho is town than Batt so thats where my vote is going unless we get an extension.
3.Not seeing any extension and I need to sleep
VOTE: Battousai

Archer obviously buss'd as a last ditch effort to look town when Batt was going to be lynched. No mentions until the wagon had already formed, followed by a "review" of the wagons (which we never saw the results of), and a vote without any real explanation.

Looker to/about Jesse/Batt:
A lot. Forget Looker was on my likely buddy list.

Unvote, Vote Archer

He's obvBattbuddy and we'll find the last scum in Smashbro/Broken/Farside/Bella/Andrew for sure. I'd bet my cat if I had one. I'm allergic to cats, so I'd probably want to lose that bet. I'd bet something valuable though.

[farside22]

Egg: Very nice post. I don't usually over-analysis all the post made by dead scum. However I found those comments enlightening.
I also don't disagree with your vote or theory on Archer. I have him as a scum suspect for other reasons.

He's obvBattbuddy and we'll find the last scum in Smashbro/Broken/Farside/Bella/Andrew for sure. I'd bet my cat if I had one. I'm allergic to cats, so I'd probably want to lose that bet. I'd bet something valuable though.

Here's a hint (look at the vote count )
I have this feeling while I was asleep about bella that bothered me. It something I need to research to see if my brain is thinking clearly at 5am to something I missed on my read.

[lord_hur]

@Egg : yes, there are nice things in this post. Thanks for participating.

Waiting for Archer's defense before I provide comments.

Also, who are you the alt of?