Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[bgg1996]

This is where it would be nice to see a more recent game he played as scum, but he's refused to provide links from recent games, so I don't know.

@bgg
How would you describe your scum meta (beyond "try to look like I'm town")?

The most recent game I've played other than this one was at the end of 2009.

My meta?
Really, it would be best if you just looked over newbie 807 if you want it. It was around the same time and had a more similar atmosphere. I don't remember much of it, it was over a year ago, my memories of it have faded.

Although it probably wouldn't be best to base too much off of it.

[Exe]

More bacon! Breakfast is so fun

Vote Count #8

Day 1

Neruz

(4): [Redacted], Ant_to_the_max, Nathanael, Xine,

Xine

(3): Greedling, GreyICE, Hiraki,

bgg1996

(2): Surprise_Carcinogen, Neruz,

Nathanael

(1): DeathRowKitty,

DeathRowKitty

(1): My Milked Eek,

Surprise_Carcinogen

(0):

Llamarble

(0):

GreyICE

(0):

[Redacted]

(0):

My Milked Eek

(0):

Greedling

(0):

Ant_to_the_max

(0):

Hiraki

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

: Llamarble, bgg1996,

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is at 10:00 AM EST on 2/24/11.

[GreyICE]

Okay, catching up time. First thing that really catches my eye is this post because of the possible connection between Neruz and Nathanael. To me, this post doesn't seem like bussing/distancing for some reason. It's mostly because of part a of his questioning of Neruz. If I were questioning a buddy, "why do you think I think you're scum?" is pretty much something I'd avoid at all costs, simply because my reaction to seeing that if I were on the receiving end of it would be "because it says so in my role PM, idiot" or something to that effect. Could be overthinking it, I suppose, but we'll see how it turns out.

bgg's explanations are getting dangerously far into WIFOMy metascum territory, but I'm still really not getting a scum feel off of them. This is where it would be nice to see a more recent game he played as scum, but he's refused to provide links from recent games, so I don't know.

@bgg
How would you describe your scum meta (beyond "try to look like I'm town")?

I still disagree with a BGG lynch atm and will be making a post about DRK on Monday

You sure know how to make a guy feel special

I don't like the line of attack Hiraki's been following on bgg (see here for an example). It kind of feels like he's prodding bgg with a sharp stick and then going "ZOMG U SAID "OUCH" LOLSCUM"

Minor Neruz explosion in thread? check. Experience tells me Neruz-splosion isn't a scum tell and I don't find [Redacted]'s case hugely convincing, so meh. *sits on Neruz's fence*

I would like to see more out of Llamarble. My gut doesn't like him, but his posts aren't giving a huge amount to go on right now. I also want to look a bit more into Hiraki. For some rason, despite his having a reasonable number of posts, he's managed to fly almost completely under my radar.

*cough*

Not to push this wagon too hard (lies, I love pushing wagons), but has Xine made a post yet this game that makes you go "oh... town!"

[Exe]

Greedling and My Milked Eek have both been prodded....Greedling's prod is way overdue and for that I apologize...Exe is new to modding :/

[Neruz]

I don't know about that, Neruz has declared willingness to lynch someone he believes to be town to remove an annoying player. I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz? I've seen enough to have reached a decision
VOTE: Neruz

WHERE DID I SAY THAT? POINT ME TO THE LOCATION WHERE I STATED THAT I BELIEVE BGG TO BE TOWN!

You know what. Fuck bgg, this wagon isn't going anywhere because apparantly only a handful of people think that

threatening the town

isn't a scumtell.
That post, right there, from Xine, is nothing short of pure distilled scumhop. The fact that she had to

make up

something i said in order to justify voting me and the fact that what she did make up was so transparently bullshit leaves no room whatsoever for town motivation.

UNVOTE: Bgg
VOTE: Xine

You scummity scum scum.

[bgg1996]

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

This is what she was referring to.

[Neruz]

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

This is what she was referring to.

Yes, i know. Notice the part in that quote where i said i believed you to be tow-

OH WAIT I DIDN'T.

[bgg1996]

Which reminds me.

I told myself the next time you posted, had at least three sentences, a quote, and the word "fuck". And have not yet answered any questions or otherwise contributed to our victory, that would be the point where I stopped making idle threats and actually put your life on the line.

Vote:Neruz

[bgg1996]

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

This is what she was referring to.

Yes, i know. Notice the part in that quote where i said i believed you to be tow-

OH WAIT I DIDN'T.

I don't know about that, Neruz has declared willingness to lynch someone he believes to be town to remove an annoying player. I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz? I've seen enough to have reached a decision
VOTE: Neruz

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

I don't know about that,

Neruz has declared willingness to lynch someone he believes to be town to remove an annoying player.

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz? I've seen enough to have reached a decision
VOTE: Neruz

At this point

i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts

.

I get the feeling that in your mind, everything somebody says is mutated a bit to make them scummier.

In case your incredibly thick head still does not get it, the only thing she said was that you were willing to lynch somebody that you thought was town. You said and I quote "At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town". There is absolutely nothing she said about you actually believing me to be town, which by the way, is very ironic considering how you went on and on about how you never said aggressive play=scumtell. You hypocrite.

[Neruz]

You might have a point, but Xine goes on to say this:

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz?

Which implies that i am currently going against that plan and voting someone i believe to be town just to remove an annoying player.

Which i am not.

What you're seeing here bgg is called

implication

, it's an extremely common and powerful scum tool and if you are town then you appear to have fallen right for it.


Unfortunately, i blacked out again while trying to finish reading the rest of your post. I suspect similar reasons to the last time.

[bgg1996]

You might have a point, but Xine goes on to say this:

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz?

Which implies that i am currently going against that plan and voting someone i believe to be town just to remove an annoying player.

Which i am not.

What you're seeing here bgg is called

implication

, it's an extremely common and powerful scum tool and if you are town then you appear to have fallen right for it.


Unfortunately, i blacked out again while trying to finish reading the rest of your post. I suspect similar reasons to the last time.

I didn't fall for any implications. That would be saying that I believed that you believed that I was town.
Whoops, I almost fell for a loaded question.
I think that you are scum, and therefore already know that I am town, but I do not think that you are trying to give the impression that I am town.

Your posts convey that you would strongly believe me to be scum, but unvoted me because you saw that others were not going to continue to vote me.


What I believe Xine to be saying is that although you are voting for somebody you believe to be scum, you say that you would vote them

regardless of whether you thought they were scum

.



If you decide to answer my questions, depending on your answers, I will reweigh the evidence against you, and may decide that you are indeed town, given that there is evidence that you are, or lack of evidence that you aren't in your responses.

[GreyICE]

You might have a point, but Xine goes on to say this:

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz?

Which implies that i am currently going against that plan and voting someone i believe to be town just to remove an annoying player.

Which i am not.

What you're seeing here bgg is called

implication

, it's an extremely common and powerful scum tool and if you are town then you appear to have fallen right for it.

He's not town.

Neither is Xine.

But I'm so so much more certain about the last statement then the first. Come on and help us lynch scum today.

[Neruz]

I honestly can't tell with bgg anymore. I'm finding it almost impossible to believe that he isn't an alt account that is just trolling this entire thread as there is a point where i am just no longer able to suspend my disbelief; we went past that point a short while back.

That post by Xine though, that i am familiar with. I've seen that kind of post many times before and it is always an extremely powerful scumtell: Look for the people who make up excuses to hop on the wagon, because there are your scum.

If you decide to answer my questions, depending on your answers, I will reweigh the evidence against you, and may decide that you are indeed town, given that there is evidence that you are, or lack of evidence that you aren't in your responses.

There are no questions in that post you idiot.

[bgg1996]

When did I EVER say that the questions were in that post, you idiot.

[Neruz]

When did i ever say i give enough of a shit about you to go looking for your damn questions.

If you want me to answer some questions, point to the questions, don't just go HERP DERP I THREATEN YOU WITH ANSWERING QUESTIONS OR I VOTE YOU and expect me to go looking for them. I don't care enough about your shit to do so.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?


Also Neruz, You say that I am contradicting myself by saying that I should

come up with

information that I do not yet have.
Based on how you wrote your response on post 160, in your head it probably went more like:
I have proof that I am not scum, I'll show it to you tomorrow. (Remember guys, I'm a claimed Vanilla Townie.)
With it said that way, why would you tell everybody to "see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell." You went on to vote Nathanael.
With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

Also, if questions are stupid, that probably only means that the person asking them is stupid. Stupid people aren't any more likely to be mafia than smart ones, and while it may make it more likely that they are scum, it is not a good idea to suspect somebody based purely on how

"

f*cking retarded

"

they are being.

Mafia typically hide behind stupid questions because they have to make up their scumhunting. Mafia cannot actually scumhunt because they are the scum, therefore they have to

create

scumtells, which typically comes across as stupid and\or retarded questions, often re-hashing points that were already made and carefully laundering quotes so as to make their fabricated case look convincing.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?
Did I ever launder a quote?

I'm sick of your bullshit and i'm sick of [Redacted]'s bullshit. You clearly have no clue what the hell you're doing; to call you a newbie is an insult to newbies everywhere. Why you're playing this game and not learning how to play mafia properly in the newbie games i don't even know, but i suspect it may be because you are actually braindead and\or fucking with us. I don't know which and i don't care.

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?
Does that make it okay to lynch me?
Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?

These are your questions, at least answer some of them. Some may be stupid, but if you refuse to answer them, as opposed to giving the obvious answer, it makes me think that you have an ulterior motive, i.e. you are scum.

[Neruz]

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?

Because threatening the town is anti-town.

With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

None, i should have just voted you for blatantly lying, but i decided to be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have regretted that decision ever since i made it.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?

You've spent almost the entire game asking stupid questions, with the occasional not-so-stupid question thrown in through sheer luck. So you havn't had a chance to re-hash any points, because as far as i can tell you didn't make any until about half a dozen posts ago.

Did I ever launder a quote?

Nope.

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?

Yep.

Does that make it okay to lynch me?

Absolutely.

Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?

Obviously not.


Consider yourself humoured, enjoy it because i won't be doing it again.

[bgg1996]

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?

Because threatening the town is anti-town.

I did not percieve it as a threat. If you did, well then that's great, I don't care.

With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

None, i should have just voted you for blatantly lying, but i decided to be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have regretted that decision ever since i made it.

That's what you get for trying to be nice in a game of mafia.
In mafia you have to think logically. You cannot merely trust people on a whim, excepting some subconscious feeling of general scumminess, you have to weigh the odds and decide rationally which is good and which is bad.
Do you have a disorder that makes you misunderstand people?
For the last time, there is a big difference between have hard evidence and come up with proof.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?

You've spent almost the entire game asking stupid questions, with the occasional not-so-stupid question thrown in through sheer luck. So you havn't had a chance to re-hash any points, because as far as i can tell you didn't make any until about half a dozen posts ago.

Did I ever launder a quote?

Nope.

Then your point about stupid questions being scumtells was basically just a load of crap?

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?

Yep.

Does that make it okay to lynch me?

Absolutely.

So being retarded/braindead/fuckingwithyou is a big scumtell then?

Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?

Obviously not.


Consider yourself humoured, enjoy it because i won't be doing it again.

At this point you sort of lose seriousness, or at least, the little seriousness you had.


I still like the "spock flying into a rage and trying to strangle somebody" analogy.
Did my braindead fucking-with-you retardedness make you permanently furious?
Lighten up.

[GreyICE]

I honestly can't tell with bgg anymore. I'm finding it almost impossible to believe that he isn't an alt account that is just trolling this entire thread as there is a point where i am just no longer able to suspend my disbelief; we went past that point a short while back.

That post by Xine though, that i am familiar with. I've seen that kind of post many times before and it is always an extremely powerful scumtell: Look for the people who make up excuses to hop on the wagon, because there are your scum.

Come on. Bgg is a jester. It doesn't matter what color his role PM came in, that's his role and he's playing it to the hilt.

[Hiraki]

he believes to be town

i would actually lynch you even

if

i had incontrovertible proof that you were town

I've done my work here. Xine likes Senor Opportunity.

[bgg1996]

Her post said "declared his willingness to vote somebody he believes to be town"
That doesn't say necessarily that he necessarily believes me to be town.
Not that I'm saying that I do not believe Xine to be or not to be scum necessarily.

[Llamarble]

Okay, time for promised catch-up.

[GreyICE]

I should have time for a less cursory inspection tomorrow, I hope.

I don't disagree with this wagon, but I've hardly read anyone else properly so I don't want a hammer before I've really analyzed 2/3 of the players.

I still have to read more players though.

I am leaning more toward town on GreyIce and more toward scum on Xine now though. I am also a bit tired to explain that, which I realize is pretty much a total reversal of some of the few reads I've given. I'll make up for it tomorrow. Good night.

Okay, today I'll make a complete set of reads & explanations.

Okay, time for promised catch-up.

IS IT SAD THAT I THINK YOU'RE TOWN BECAUSE I KNOW FOR A FACT YOUR SCUMPLAY IS BETTER THAN THIS?

[bgg1996]

Is this a typical first day?

[GreyICE]

Is this a typical first day?

Uh... define typical.