Mini 275: Subject Mafia - It's all over!

[Turbovolver]

Nah, I still think we have scum in cropcircles.

You're probably all going to kill me, but I suggest looking at him after I die.

I'm really not scum with pablito though. I guess you'll all learn that soon.

[Turbovolver]

Haha, 5 posts after this revelation looks mighty suspicious, doesn't it? 8)

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Pablito

.

We still need some discussion today I think. Turbo, I do not want you to claim today (so perish the thought if it occured to you).

I do not want this game to go into night when we have two completely inactive players. I think it is pretty obvious that we are going to need replacements, and until that time, I believe we should keep this game in Day.

My vote, of course, will return to Pablito once everybody is present and accounted for. Please do not place any more votes on Pablito, he isn't going anywhere.

[Turbovolver]

We still need some discussion today I think. Turbo, I do not want you to claim today (so perish the thought if it occured to you).

I planned to claim tomorrow, if pablito turned up scum.

I'm rather suspicious of PJ still. He just said that investigating me would be a waste (reaffirming his previous statement that he's sure I'm scum), but then he says "I don't want you to claim today". Who cares if someone 100% scum claims or not?

Hmm, I suppose it could be to stop me drawing out a nameclaim from someone else, but how helpful are nameclaims going to be this game? Wouldn't have picked languages as masons (at least not the first one), or drama as a cop. I would've thought maths would have been a cop for its analytical thinking.

Meh, if pablito's scum it's probably not worth being too suspicious of PJ. It's always possible he sold out a partner, but I think that wouldn't be the first place to look for scum.

[Turbovolver]

Unvote

I'm active enough to lynch as required. I'll probably join in the discussion just because I can't help myself, even if it is likely PJ will ignore everything I say.

[Turbovolver]

OK, I'm sorry to pull a Turbo but pablito just logged in, hung around for what I estimate was half an hour and then left again. He's done this before and then suddenly posted from the blue (I checked, he's not hidden), so if he comes back soon and posts a reasonable explanation for the cop results than fair enough.

I'm just holding him to posting - his silence has been noted.

[pablito]

You weren't kidding PJ when you said Turbo was “spraying bullets”...

Actually this was originally me post 53.

I'm surprised no one has questioned the sanity of PJ yet. Of course, I am the one to question this since he received the guilty result on me. But especially considering the subject - drama - I am yet to be convinced that PJ isn't an insane cop. Nonetheless, I believe that PJ is a cop, there is no denying this. I would doubt that a scum would just come out with such a revelation like this out of the blue - it would be too risky.

Unvote: petroleumjelly

.

[Turbovolver]

I'm surprised no one has questioned the sanity of PJ yet.

I didn't call it "testing him" for nothing. I think he's more likely to be sane though and that trusting his results is the play for today. Sorry if it turns out you are town... you were a victim of circumstance

[Turbovolver]

I'm surprised no one has questioned the sanity of PJ yet.

I didn't call it "testing him" for nothing. I think he's more likely to be sane though and that trusting his results is the play for today. Sorry if it turns out you are town... you were a victim of circumstance

This post assumes PJ is not lying about being a cop. The only way you could know that is if you were scum.

FOS: Turbovolver

(Yeah, I'm bored and probably going to die anyway)

[Sotty7]

You weren't kidding PJ when you said Turbo was “spraying bullets”...

Actually this was originally me post 53.

I'm surprised no one has questioned the sanity of PJ yet. Of course, I am the one to question this since he received the guilty result on me. But especially considering the subject - drama - I am yet to be convinced that PJ isn't an insane cop. Nonetheless, I believe that PJ is a cop, there is no denying this. I would doubt that a scum would just come out with such a revelation like this out of the blue - it would be too risky.

Unvote: petroleumjelly

.

I must say that I'm surprised that Pablito didn't claim here. Even if you do believe the cop to be insane, when there is a guilty result on you with your wagon pretty full with votes, I would have thought a claim would have been the first thing out of his mouth. Also, you don't deny PJ being the cop, so if we don't lynch you, how else are we supposed to test him?

I do not want this game to go into night when we have two completely inactive players. I think it is pretty obvious that we are going to need replacements, and until that time, I believe we should keep this game in Day.

Mod

– Can we have a prod on all inactive players please?

[cropcircles]

Okay, so let's say Turbo is scum and we wait 'til tomorrow to get a claim. He then has the night to discuss with any scum buddy different possible claims, as well as killing of a townie and narrowing down the chances of a counter claim. As in, he thinks "maybe if I claim tracker, I could survive for at least one more day," then during the night he kills the tracker and goes "oops, good thing I didn't claim that!" Thus, the value of any claim he makes goes down if we wait for tomorrow. For that reason, I want a claim today.

@PJ: My subliminal claim is

so

much better then yours. So there.

[Don Gaetano]

Sorry for not posting this week. My computer crashed during the weekend . The computer hangs up during startup, and the harddisk starts making mechanical "Ka-dunk, Ka-dunk, Ka-dunk" noices, and I get a "drive error, can't read c:". It may be a hardware problem, but I'm not sure

...But I digress...

I must say we have an interesting development. I'm 99% sure that PJ isn't scum. Because it would be a stupid move for scum to claim cop on day two, and more importantly because his arguments against Pablito were extremely weak. Re-reading, it's obvious that he's either a cop that's trying to build suspicion against his target without claiming (while judging people's reactions), or one hell of an actor.

He could ofcourse be non-sane without knowing it, but it's unlikely, since a non-sane cop in a game without a sane one is rare, and the only way to find out if he's sane is to lynch Pablito, so to worry about it now is stupid.

I still think the method PJ used to "judge" people's reactions is stupid, because his arguments were so weak. If my computer hadn't crashed I would also have defended Pablito.

-----

I won't be shocked if Pablito turns up scum (which I think he will, considering that he didn't claim right away (only scum have a reason to hesitate in such a situation)), but the link with Turbo poses a problem for me, because Turbo has had the aura of an over-eager, illogical townie from the start, and the high possibility of him being the godfather if he's scum, makes it hard to prove his innocence. No matter what happens, we should lynch Pablito today, but in my opinion not before we hear a claim from both him and Turbo. (If Pablito turns out to be a townie he might have information we can use later on. Turbo needs to claim today because of the reasons outlined by cropcircles). We should also wait untill Sineish and Quailman come back or are replaced.

Depending on Turbo's claim, and PJ's results from the night's investigation, we will get a good idea about the best course of action tomorow.

-----

Sorry for the messy nature of this post, but I do not have time to proof read sionce I do not have regular access to a computer (that actually works) right now, but I will try to post back as soon as possible.

[Turbovolver]

I'm happy to claim today.

I am

Art

, and I'm a vig.
My role says some stuff about art being worth more when its creators are dead, and that I'm using my experience with death to help out. (I'm guessing the mod had trouble working out how he could fit a vig in with the theme.)

I don't know what my kill method is, but if other people are dying from books in the library or whatever then I'm probably stabbing people with a paintbrush

Night 1 I took no action.
Night 2 I tried to kill Stewie, kill didn't go through.

The following night I planned to kill PJ (and decided to breadcrumb it, check out the last word of every paragraph in #295... THAT's why I put the "kills at night" comment in). Now that he had a solid cop claim, I thought cropcircles was the best bet and said that in #375 (again look at last words).

I'm suspicious of Stewie (of being the Godfather), but perhaps I was roleblocked or he was protected.

I still think the method PJ used to "judge" people's reactions is stupid, because his arguments were so weak. If my computer hadn't crashed I would also have defended Pablito.

*hi-5*

But damnit Don, I swear I haven't been illogical
Just over-eager

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, some food for thought. I was wrong about Turbo not claiming today, I'm glad cropcircles pointed this out: I was only thinking off the top of my head, and I was worried about Turbo claiming for the sole purpose of getting a counter-claim (such as a Doctor claim), so that the scum would have a good target tonight (assuming I am protected).

However, the more I think of the possibility, the more I am becoming worried that I may indeed be an insane cop. Since we have a Vigilante claim, then, I believe I will reveal both of my investigations. If there is a

real

Vigilante, you should probably keep silent: Vig Turbo if he is lying, do not allow yourself to be outed. This is one claim where a counter-claim isn't necessary to kill of lying scum.

Night One:

I investigated Stewie, got innocent (this pretty much explains my actions on Day 1, and why I was not suspicious of Stewie: I kept the percentage at 50% purposely on the chance I was not completely sane)

Night Two:

I investigated Pablito, got guilty

If Turbo is telling the truth, it could mean a number of things.
1.) That Turbo may have almost cost us the game by connecting himself to obviously with Pablito, assuming I am indeed a Sane Cop.
2.) If Turbo

did

target Stewie, it is possible that I am an insane Cop, and that Stewie is an unnightkillable GF as opposed to an Investigation-Immune GF (which is why I would receive an innocent when he would otherwise be seen as guilty).
3.) If Turbo

did

target Stewie, Stewie may have been protected (or protected himself, via a Hider role or such) or Turbo was role-blocked.

I would most definitely like to hear a claim from Pablito (I would have preferred his claim before Turbo's, but it's a bit late for that now.

I think I will have to re-read this game after Pablito's claim from a number of viewpoints now, and determine which is the most likely of the three:

A.) If Stewie is scum and Pablito is not
B.) If Pablito is scum but Turbo is not
C.) If Pablito is scum and Turbo is scum

As much as I hate to say it, Turbo's insistence on being tied to Pablito almost makes me want to believe him. Gah! Of course, even if Turbovolver is indeed unconnected to Pablito, we still need to entertain the thought (assuming Turbo does have night-kill abilities) he may a SK. This game has gotten very complicated very quickly, which is discouraging because I was feeling pretty good about catching two scum (which may still be true).

This is definitely going to take a long think. I haven't yet dealt with a game where I seriously had to consider the issue of an insane cop.

I have a bad feeling we're going to have to get claims from both Pablito and Stewie before today ends, and that is

a lot

of claims, and it will give the scum

a lot

of information. We need to talk about this before it goes any farther.

And what we

really

need are replacements for Sineish and Quailman. This is getting silly.

[Turbovolver]

Don't be so quick to discount your cop results... It REALLY wouldn't suprise me if I was roleblocked, considering the suspicion I was under. Also couldn't he be an un-NK, appear innocent GF? I'm pretty sure I've seen that before.

We probably do want a claim from pablito (or we could just lynch him now to test you... I'd support that). I think only if pablito comes up town would we want a claim from Stewie. I'd assume if one of your investigations was right then we could trust the other... we'd just have to worry about whether Stewie was a super-Godfater or not.


Does anybody disagree with me vigging cropcircles?

[petroleumjelly]

Whoa, don't go making those kinds of plans so quickly.

Firstly, it is possible we have an anti-town role-blocker. Secondly, I would have to re-read the thread entirely to see whether or not there was sufficient scumminess from Cropcircles to warrant a Vigging (

especially

after he has

already said

he has breadcrumbed towards his role in this game). Secondly, I am not just going to buy your Vigilante role-claim outright when there is still a possibility of you being SK or scum, since you have connected yourself to Pablito so vehemently. And thirdly, if Pablito turns up town, you may want to target

Stewie

(as I would then have to be an Insane Cop) on the chance you were role-blocked by a pro-town player on Night 2 (although this possibility does not hold as much weight as the first two reasons I can think of right now).

I still need to think about all this junk we've got on the table, so I wouldn't go making plans for Night Three unless we absolutely have to. It almost got me in trouble in another game (see Miyazaki Mafia), so am loathe to take the same risk again.

[Turbovolver]

I still need to think about all this junk we've got on the table, so I wouldn't go making plans for Night Three unless we absolutely have to. It almost got me in trouble in another game (see Miyazaki Mafia), so am loathe to take the same risk again.

OK.

Secondly, I am not just going to buy your Vigilante role-claim outright when there is still a possibility of you being SK or scum

Unless the mafia skip a kill or get doc-protected, it should be reasonably clear that I'm not mafia. If I'm the SK, I'm still trying to kill the mafia to earn support, so you should support me offing cropcircles if you think him suspicious anyway

[petroleumjelly]

Hehe. This game hurts me so much it's funny. First I had to hold in my investigations when I just wanted to say: Pablito and Turbo are scum! Look, look!, but I held onto my instincts until I was satisfied.

For the record, just yesterday I had both you and Pablito down in my note as: "Most Definitely Scum". You've since moved up into my "WTH" category, and Pablito has knocked down slightly to "Very Likely Scum". The fact that I have read Newbie #193, though, is not especially helpful to you.

[Turbovolver]

The fact that I have read Newbie #193, though, is not especially helpful to you.

Hahahaha. I was a much more reserved scum in Newbie 163, that's what I mean with the "voice of reason" stuff. And check out Newbie 182 and Newbie 188 for me playing the way I have this game as town.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'm happy to claim today.

I am

Art

, and I'm a vig.
My role says some stuff about art being worth more when its creators are dead, and that I'm using my experience with death to help out. (I'm guessing the mod had trouble working out how he could fit a vig in with the theme.)

I don't know what my kill method is, but if other people are dying from books in the library or whatever then I'm probably stabbing people with a paintbrush

Night 1 I took no action.
Night 2 I tried to kill Stewie, kill didn't go through.

The following night I planned to kill PJ (and decided to breadcrumb it, check out the last word of every paragraph in #295... THAT's why I put the "kills at night" comment in). Now that he had a solid cop claim, I thought cropcircles was the best bet and said that in #375 (again look at last words).

I'm suspicious of Stewie (of being the Godfather), but perhaps I was roleblocked or he was protected.

I still think the method PJ used to "judge" people's reactions is stupid, because his arguments were so weak. If my computer hadn't crashed I would also have defended Pablito.

*hi-5*

But damnit Don, I swear I haven't been illogical
Just over-eager

I don't think the mod had much trouble coming up with a vig role. Geology, after all, makes more sense. It's the study of rocks. What are rocks good for? Hitting people. Yes, people: this is a claim. Last night I tried to kill turbo but failed. Since the role he gave makes more sense for scum (I don't think killing people to give you personal benefit is very protown), I'm guessing turbo is some sort of kill immune sk, or the gf, probably the latter.

[petroleumjelly]

And hence exactly why I didn't want Turbovolver claiming today: the inevitable counter-claim from a power role. And of course, it would make perfect sense that Turbo would claim Vigilante if he has NK immunity, making it necessary for the Vig to counter-claim since Turbo would not be able to be picked off by the

real

Vigilante.

*Throws hands in air in frustration*

God, this game is really confusing. I ask that everybody unvote, please. This might be an even longer day that I had previously expected.

[Turbovolver]

Yarr, it be true. I'm the SK.

I'm immune if I don't kill, and my original plan was to just never kill... I was growing weary of all the unknowns and wanted to test my suspicions by offing some people, namely PJ and then cropcircles after PJ turned up cop.

Everything I've said this game has been true, I've been playing exactly how a townie would - trying to catch the scums.

Looks like I should've gone with the untargetable townie claim after all... I was scared that you would all just kill me for looking like the GF if I did that though.

I really am Art, btw. I went nuts when all you other fools didn't understand just what it took to create a piece of artwork.


It'd be good if you guys would turn me into a pro-town Vig who dies on the last day, but I'd totally understand if you just wanted to lynch me on the spot.





Does THAT make the game any less confusing for you, PJ?

[petroleumjelly]

Yes, actually.

My immediate thoughts is that we lynch Turbo today, and RotN Vigs Pablito tonight, but I will need to think all of this through.

Another option might be to lynch somebody, have RotN Vig Pablito, have Turbo kill SK somebody else, so that we can get 3 kills at once and I will have another investigation for tomorrow (as well as finding out whether I am Sane or Insane), but the problem is scum will also get a kill (making one lynch and 3 night kills, bring us down to 6 players). We can then lynch Turbo, and if RotN is still alive, we can direct his kill towards somebody else if it is necessary, while losing another overnight to scum (bringing us to 3 players and an endgame situation unless we catch all the scum by this point).

But that's a lot of killing. Hmm. Lemme see what we've got:

Alive

Turbovolver - Art, Serial Killer
Pablito - ???, Scum (?)
RangeroftheNorth - Geology, Vigilante
PetroleumJelly - Drama, Sane/Insane Cop
Stewie - ???, Innocent (?)
Sineish - ???, ???
Quailman - ???, ???
Cropcircles - ???, ???
Sotty7 - ???, ???
Don Gaetano - ???, ???

Dead

Snowmonkey - Math, Vanilla Townie
Jimmy of the Rez - French, "Mason" (no indicator that partner is pro-town)

Any thoughts from anybody would be good about now.

[Turbovolver]

I will kill whoever I'm ordered to. And like I said before, I understand if I'm lynched. Know that because I have been doing my best to be a townie (best way to play an SK, IMO), I'm rooting for the town here.

BTW, if Stewie is innocent then I think Sotty7 is too. I wasn't lying when I said she'd done stuff that I found scummy individually, but her latest posts have seemed clean and so if Stewie isn't scum I don't think she is. Or should I trust my instincts...?

Think the best bet (assuming PJ is sane) is

Scum: pablito, cropcircles, Quailman?
SK: Turbovolver

I really liked Don's last post, so if he's scum he deserves to stick around for being awesome at this game. 8)



As for thoughts on PJ's plan(s), I don't think we are sure enough in our suspicions to go for 3 players (lynch one, two "vig" kills). Unless of course one of those players is me... I'll vig someone, Ranger can vig me, and we can lynch pablito. That way if pablito turns up town we can try to adjust plans (without communication though, that could be tricky).

[Turbovolver]

Everything I've said this game has been true, I've been playing exactly how a townie would - trying to catch the scums.

Actually, my claim was false (when I said I targeted Stewie). I haven't tried to kill anyone. Now that I'm doing my best to help the town before I die I should put that out there.

PS PJ, when I said it was unlikely you would listen to anything I say, that was because you were sure pablito and I were scum. Well, it looks like we were, but not in the way you were thinking