Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fate wagon is go ...

VOTE: Fate

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also -

I'll be V/LA til about 8pm Monday due to tons of holiday family events.

Either that or I will die in firewords display we are setting off tonight and will never be heard from again.

Watch carefully for further developments.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok I see you guys managed a complete Pants-on-Head stupid lynch Day 1 while I was busy nearly blowing myself up over the holidays. Cudos.

The ending Wagon – Nautilius, Zachrulez, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, Ban, danceHello, Gut, DrippingGoofball, Fate, silavor

Those who screamed “What a Stupid Lynch” before Spyrex’s alignment was even known
– dance, Tar, Quilford

This is for later down the line if I can be bothered to look back if alive.

--

What else I missed Day 1

–

DGB is probably just Town with bad instincts as of late. Clearly Silavor was the obv-scum for completely ignoring the Fate wagon with his first post. Especially DGB had already called KK scum (lulz, great call) for doing so.

Silavor is clearly scum for ignoring the Fate RVS fun-time wagon, the horrible hammer, and pretty much all of Day 2.

Quilford looks to be trying way too hard to be “Townie McTowniepants”. Null at first glance.

Nautilus is scum. Elli is easy to read on that part.

Fate is playing so badly I just assume he is probably Town. Because a good player doesn’t vote for Spyrex in post 85 and then call VitamanR scum in 86 for doing the exact same thing.

--

{danceHello, Gut, Quilford, silavor} <-- I'm thinking that this is a good starting group to look for scum in.

Since KK bit the bullet over so many so called “Awesome Players” I assume he was pretty spot on with this list.

Gut and Silavor are more or less sure scum.

KK’s parting comments about Invicting Quilford also make me lean to Quil Town

--

SCUM
danceHello (inHimshallibe+PBuG hydra) - not signing posts, deliberate obfuscation
SpyreX - daycop result
Kublai Khan - Fear of wagons

Page 2 scum list from DGB immortalized for later review.

--

Elli and fate both think Spyre's scum? I think we're on to something.

Vo-
Wait a sec, SpyreX's at L-1. Why isn't he taking this seriously? Why hasn't he claimed?

Look at me I’m going to throw us some names to hide behind and then give an excuse as to why I throw a terrible hammer 3 posts later.

Scum scum scum scum scum!!!!!

--

Ok by Page 7 I’m losing interest in all the ALL CAPS pointless spam.

Fate’s Invictus plan is incredibly useless given this is a Vi game. I’d expect he’d know so since the is probably a Tar role.

Anyway I’ve delivered you a bunch of scum – Nautlius, Gut, Silavor, possibly danceHello. Get to work people, I’ve done the heavy lifting.

VOTE: Silavor

Was he at L-1? Hope so. I didn't bother to check.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You're doing it wrong.
Other than that you're doing it right.

Nope, you are pretty much 100% scum. Especially with that "I was trying something new that I can't explain in a way other than it looks like something out of the mouth of DrShotty".

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let's hear your grand CASE on me,

I always chuckle when Fate asks for a case with an indignant attitude.

I get to be the one that lets Ban's "FULLPROOFSCUMTELLZ" down!

Weren’t you just bragging about how you came up with the SUPER DUPER Pro-Town plan that lead to your defeat as scum in DEFCON 2.0? Didn't you make said plan just for the Town Cred? And got shafted by Socio's unwillingness not to nuke your partner InHIm?

MoI is just trolling because if he AGREED with anything I said or showed any fucking RESPECT his ego would explode.

Wait what? Have you somehow learned to maybe perhaps just have an inkling of a correct read on me?

Heart pills - stat!!!!!

--

Ban is Town. And we can form an “I H8T FATE” club. Awesome.

--

Ban, why are you suspecting Fate for coming up with something helpful and protown? Yeah, okay, it could be a potential towncred thing, but Fate hasn't done anything outright scummy.

Tender fondling of Fate’s nutsack noted.

--

Try not to kill Silavor too fast though Magna, finding his friends is more important than lynching him.

I’ve already found a couple of his friends. What more do you want?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m going to address the wagon on because it’s an exact replay of yesterday and quite frankly disappoints me greatly.

LOLWIFOM? That’s it? No-one has given one hint of actually scummy play (unlike say, Silavor Gut or the others I’ve actually detailed as scum with actual reasons why) and are just bandwagonning for a variety of reasons (Fate is Butthurt that I won “Best Newbie”, several others are clear scum, etc).

I’ll address the votes on my wagon as they came –

You know, after reading a bunch of games where MoI was town I was starting to wonder what his scum game looked like.

You didn’t vote in this post but this is the most important element of your ‘meta-vote’. Please detail the MoI Town games you have read. Pretty bad use of meta. I’d expect experienced Tar to know better.

VOTE: MOI

Its not liek LOLSILAVOR is going anywhere or is any threat.

Yup, now suddenly Silavor is not threat. Read the start of Day Fate push on Silavor and contrast it with this gem. If I didn’t have a strong ‘Pants on Head’ Town Fate read I’d assume he was pulling a “Let’s see if I can avoid bussing my partner for one more Day” play like Nautilus is.

Here’s the truth on Fate’s ‘Meta-Evidence’ – it’s crap.

He’s cherry picked some quotes from ONE scum game. American Gods Mafia. What he’s not bothering to do is give you any context. In that game I quickhammered a bad Apok Wagon Day 2 (after the first two quoted). Fate also didn’t push me at all that that Day and died due to the Serial Killer (not my team). So his ability to read MoI-Scum is clearly suspect.

And the third quote? Lulz that was after I had claimed scum in thread by Quickhammering Days 2 and Day 4 and then missed Quickhammering to win Day 5 due to a Mod VC error. So he’s trying to align my post DAY 6 WHEN I WAS CONFIRMED SCUM WIFOMING IT UP with Day 2 here. Horrible.

Also – Fate’s never read me correctly so his “Lulz, MoI can’t read me” is just funny. I’ve been scum of some flavor in three games with Fate-Town. In all three he’s never bothered to push me. On the other hand in MoI-Town and Fate-Town games he lets his bruised ego that I don’t give him the ‘proper’ respect cloud his judgement.

OH MAN WAS HE WRONG AS ALL GET OUT. (I was too but it was in response to his trying to paint me as the GF, and the real scums incredible lurking)

Love his “I was wrong but I have a reason’. Fate’s always got an excuse for his failures. I admit fully I have a hard time reading Fate because he plays his games to the benefit of his scum games by being erratic and Anti-Town. He'll never admit that he can't read me because he's blinded by ego.

I was DA in this case, hydra with Katsuki. He even says it was a META read, so he THINKS he has my meta down but he really doesn't.

Nice complete mis-rep. The Meta read was on Katsuki, which was wrong in Meta-Mafia, but is something I can do since I can read Kats-scum (LOTR Mafia and [REDACTED]).

Unvote vote, Magna
Invict Sila

They are scum as specified earlier but contrast it with this later gem …

Silavor is townier than shit.
Like, holy FUCK is he town.

So Silavor is Town huh? Yet you were voting him earlier today and just Invicted him (which means your slot thinks he is scum). Only reasons for this are

1. Hydra skitzo play – pure scum play.
2. See a chance to completely divorce yourself from Silavor lynch today – scum buddy seeing a chance to keep his team intact and reverse start of Day mega-bussing. – also pure scum play.

Note in post

376

Nautilus tries to steathily gets off my mislynch wagon. Hoping to dodge two bad lynch wagons in hopes of manipulating later VC analysis scum?

I can dig a Magna wagon. So much wrong with his last few posts. The whole "none of you know what you're doing but I've caught all the scum for you"-shtick feels incredibly forced. Unvote, Vote: MoI

Doesn’t actually detail what is wrong with my posts (other than ostensibly I’ve fingered too many scum) and uses the ‘forced’ buzzword.

Elli, where are all your elliplanz? Why are you just sheeping, rather than your usual scheming? And how do you fail so epicly at reading me? I thought you were better than that. Also, BS's last post feels rather forced. Possible scumteam found? I think yes.

vote: MoI
Invictus: Baby Spice

1. Horribly weak distancing from Nautilus by attacking them for doing exactly what he is doing.
2. Still absolute scum as detailed before.
3. Note he’s doing what good caught scum do when a viable counterwagon appears. Hop on and keeps your head down hoping it works.

voteMOI

Been meaning to do that ever since I pointed it out. So there.

The PBug half pointed out I was one of ‘four’ suspectes and Inhim dropped some “He looks different than [REDACTED]. Neither have bothered to actually provide any reasons other than SHEEEEEEP.

Don't see it myself, but I don't mind sheeping Fate et al. here.

Unvote, vote: MoI

1. Abdicting responsibility (I’m just following Fate - echoing Silavor's Day 1 'Fate told me to hammer' crap)? Scumtastic.
2. No reads of his own to push? Scumtastic.

If this mislych gets driven home by a combination of Fate's hurt ego, scum sheeping with impunity, and other players who place "who I like" over actually hunting scum look at the votes for Spyrex and myself. Teeming with scum, guarenteed.

--

On to other replies –

Oh Magna, are you trying to say that Fate would play smarter as scum? I'm not really getting your reasoning for calling him town except that you did it in a way that dismisses him out of hand. I'm not liking that.

You don’t have to like it. I specifically called him Town in a back-handed manner as a further read technique. Scum Fate, upon seeing Town me call him Town, would most likely not react as he has. It would be easy for him

Town Fate on the other hand can’t separate his ego from his scum-hunting in regards to me so goes full-steam ahead with another push on Town MoI.

--

BUT AN MOI SCUM FLIP WILL GIVE ME GREAT PERSONAL SATISFACTION.

But I’m not flipping scum so I will once again get to lord it over you how you’ve failed once again (unless you are Scum and I’m mis-reading you, in which case you are doing what you need to push a bad wagon) just like you are crowing about in [REDACTED].

And if I’ve read you right and you’ve read me wrong? Expect to never hear the end of how I was able to read you before you could read me!!!! I’m going to savor that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ill go quote my scumlist from American Gods, you were on there IMMEDIATELY. Just bc I didn't push you meant nothing

Do that.

In the meantime dwell on your inconsistency in meta application.

You post Meta-evidence of MoI-scum in American Gods Mafia being cagy with his Fate read and not committing until he 'sees' results.

Then you turn immediately around and attack MoI-Town for calling you Town since 'I can't read you'. Ok, so I'm scum regardless of whether I read you correctly as Town or don't commit to a read.

Got it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why are you even lsiting other possibilities and "stealthily getting off your wagon" anyways (He was anything but stealthy). It's a CLEAR case of schizo.

Oh, so you admit fully you are Scum for playing in a schizo manner? Thanks.

Reaaaally. Other than sila which you devoted a couple of sentences to can you quote over your stuff on Gut and other actual reasons on others. Because I don't see any.

Oh, I see. I haven’t devoted enough support to my reads.

Yet you sheep with no explanation and don’t support your Sila Town read and that’s purely Pro-Town.

Right

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, I admit we're schizoing. You saw it happen in that game Faraday was modding, i was with DGB, we were town.
YOU'RE the one claiming that you had actual reasons on gut + co, it doesn't matter whether I think it's pro-town or not.

Schizoing is a perfect place for scum to hide. See Macavitar in Clash of Kings and MasterSpy in Return to Mordor Mafia.

What game is this that Faraday modded again? Was it Clash of Kings? Because I've only played with Faraday as a mod in that series to the best of my recollection. I'm too lazy to review my Wiki at this stage.

Just because you play in a scummy manner doesn't mean you are Town. It just is license for you to flip flop around on 'reads' like a fish out of water.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lol anyone notice how when I call out MoI for reading me too well he goes and says "well if I'm wrong about fate..."

To fake some doubts. Cept it shows how inconsistent he is with his earlier I CAUGHT ALL DA SCUNS BRAVADO

Oh wait Fate ... where's that Reads list post you promised from American Gods?

If you want to hang onto the Butthurt that I don't "bow to you" and I won Best Newbie and you didn't that's fine. Some of us can grow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

REGARDLESS: SHOW HOW THIS IS NOT A LIE:

(unlike say, Silavor Gut or the others I’ve actually detailed as scum with actual reasons why)

Let’s see …

{danceHello, Gut, Quilford, silavor} <-- I'm thinking that this is a good starting group to look for scum in.

Since KK bit the bullet over so many so called “Awesome Players” I assume he was pretty spot on with this list.

Gut and Silavor are more or less sure scum.

Look at me I’m going to throw us some names to hide behind and then give an excuse as to why I throw a terrible hammer 3 posts later.

Scum scum scum scum scum!!!!!

Silavor is clearly scum for ignoring the Fate RVS fun-time wagon, the horrible hammer, and pretty much all of Day 2.

Nope, you are pretty much 100% scum. Especially with that "I was trying something new that I can't explain in a way other than it looks like something out of the mouth of DrShotty".

1. Horribly weak distancing from Nautilus by attacking them for doing exactly what he is doing.
2. Still absolute scum as detailed before.
3. Note he’s doing what good caught scum do when a viable counterwagon appears. Hop on and keeps your head down hoping it works.

1. Abdicting responsibility (I’m just following Fate - echoing Silavor's Day 1 'Fate told me to hammer' crap)? Scumtastic.
2. No reads of his own to push? Scumtastic.

I think that should settle the issue. I'm bothering to add all the other Nautilus is scum stuff that you try to handwave away. And if you don't look at Gut's ISO and see scum I'm sorry for you. Except you are scum to so it's not too hard to understand why you are defending him via Chainsaw.

BUT WHERE IS YOUR RESPONSE THAT YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE CALLING ME SCUM FOR IN YOUR “SHEEP WITH NOT READS POSTING” HMMMM? WHERE IS IT?

Oh that’s right … you both are scum and don’t respond to Town scum-hunting questions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm at work all day. Quoting copypaste on phone is hard

If you want some fuckkng humbling, iso me yourself and show this game your shame.

Here it is. Not exactly sure how your three different reads on me in a single day is “my shame” and not yours ….

For the record here are Fate’s reads postings from American Gods (that concern me)

–

SGR is failtown, probably.
Gagglederp is town trying to be "cool" by suspecting the experienced players, aka MoI and farside. Only to get WTFPWNT when Ythill flips scum and farside is town. LOL

Saint=Furc...? Fucking HELL.
MoI's "theres resistance that makes ZERO sense from OGML, so I'll just vote the other wagon" is LOL.
Farside has a scumread on nexus? Nuuuuuuuuuuu!
KK made a write up? Town.
OGML is not scum with Ythill, seriously.
Ythill is brilliant though, campaigning for his own revive so damn hard. That's why I'm lawling so hard at you people using basic scumtells to connect him to people.

viewtopic.php?p=2880272#p2880272
^The fuck is this waste of space? FoS: Seacore

Waiting on the revives is good.

Wrathchild reads scummy.
Fate and other notables when they're not in the game, often taking their name in vain.

>_>b

Ythill's so scummy.
Did LMP just meta-defend MoI? lolwut
K I'll take Wrath as townish
Damn if Saint is furc he's town -_-

There's that write up KK did, like I predicted, TOWN

Apokascum is SCUM. More votes here please.
You guyys think THIS is how Ythill would treat his buddies? Lol.
#587 is a good reason Apok is scum.
as is #562 "let's have discussion about this but I won't contribute it or start it TEHEHEEE"

MoI is probably town, he's such a pain as always though.

AGar could be a lazy scumbag, need more time to tell.
The HELL did you elect Saint for WC?
Saint isn't scum with Ythill -_-

Note the bolded – he called me Town here.

I lost my page, guess I'll start at 23 >_>b

"People I feel are townie enough to go BS: GG, LMP, SGR, Saint, Seacore, farside, LL.
People I feel are skilled/experienced enough to make the most of it: GG, LMP, Magna, OGML, Saint, Seacore, Llama, AGar, farside.
I crossed out the ones who are not on both lists and bolded the ones who are but I am currently not electing."

Ythill wouldn't vote for a partner to go into the BS, he'd only need himself in there to manipulate everyone. Everyone on the top list is cleared. People on the second list is where he'd place buddies, namely AGar and Magna.

I got your number Ythill.

Motivation..draining....

Reads are already solidified enough to do this:

TOWN
GG
LMP
SGR
SAINT
SEACORE
FARSIDE
LL
OGML
WRATHCLAN
LLAMAFLUFF

SCUM
APOK
AGar

Magna

???Everyone else

Farside Ythill was probably a town read of yours yesteday. The fact that he flipped scum should make you MORE open to alternate views of the game, not PARANOID about them.

Note the bolded – here I am scum.

Oh look MoI posts and doesn't even comment on my entrance or alignment AT ALL except that I'm "playing the White Knight" (which would make OGML town and me scum in typical usage of the terms)

HURRR DURR

I guess this is you calling me Scum.

Lol MoI thinks he can read me as "if fates right he's scum bussing, if he's wrong he's town"

So horribly wrong can't tell if its dumb or scum yet.

Either way it discredits my reads for no reason

And now Fate has no opinion on my alignment.

That’s the entirety of Fate’s posts while I was alive on my alignment.

Take as you will.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The last 2 are after my quote.

Oh really? Fucking Liar.

Reaaaally. Other than sila which you devoted a couple of sentences to can you quote over your stuff on Gut and other actual reasons on others. Because I don't see any.

Here’s your FIRST mention of my not giving reads. It was at 393.

Please show me which of those quotes in 407 came after 393. You can’t. Those quotes were from 388. Again …

Fucking Liar!!!

I’d actually move my vote to Lynch all Liars but Silavor is still the obv-scum lynch for today.

The sila stuff is just obvious and probably has already been said...I'll look later.
ONLY new thing is the one on me.

Move the fucking goalposts more scum.

You said I wasn’t supporting them. Now you are backtracking and saying “It was obv” after I blew up that argument.

Scum scum scum.

I DON'T THINK SHEEPING, OR NOT HAVING REASONS IS SCUMMY. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO THINKS THEY'RE SCUMMY.

Oh, so you are trying some nice ‘TARP’ to somehow catch me being inconsistent and its now blown up in your scummy face.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm just going to say this -

If you (and this is to EVERYONE) who is Town and aren't voting obv-Scum Silavor (who is still keeping a low profile hoping his lynch blows over today) in favor of LOLWIFOM you are doing it wrong. Just like yesterday when some of you lynched Spyrex.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI I feel left out of your big post with people who voted you.

Can I get a few town reads with reasons attached to them?

You were left out. I'd say sorry but I'm not as your vote came on the last page. Given your reasoning amounts to "Hey, I dont' like the way he is playing" you don't earn Town points.

I have fairly solid Town reads on Benmage, DGB and Zachrulez.

Duplicity earns a sort Town read. I need more Regfan to have an idea whether they should be promoted to Solid.

The rest are scum, scummy to Null or mostly Null.

@Gamma

- please enlighten me as to what scummy moves I have made that justify your vote. I'm all ears.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can I get a few town reads with reasons attached to them?

And nope ... I'm not going into depth on the reasons. Sorry ... not worth my time to explain why I think said people are Town. You are lucky to get Town reads Day 2 out of me at all.

And of course Fate is obv a "Pants on Head" Town read as earlier stated. I assumed you wanted new ones.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After metamaf and [redacted] I very much expected to see more mellow town play, but instead you're stating that you've got 3 scum and that everyone else should go ahead and listen to you.
Naut's thing is similar- Yeah it wasn't a GOOD reason but unless I'm mistaken it was for an RVS wagon at the time and I have a really hard time seeing Naut use it as an excuse for being on a d1 quicklynch instead of just passing off the spy-scum claim as rvs shenanigans. Going you're absolutely scum while insulting their reason for the vote isn't what I expected from MoI-town.

And why isn't it worth your time. This is a serious question.

1. I don't see why your opinion of how I should play based on MetaMafia and [REDACTED] means I should change. Frankly I am and always have been an aggressive player. Based on those two games in question I don't see you calling for others who are playing here to change their style also.
2. Rhetoric in calling someone 'absolutely' scum isn't any different than rhetoric like "Why aren't you bussing your buddies". I don't see you calling anyone else to the carpet for that either. Granted I'm the top wagon but consistency in approach to what is scummy is Pro-Town.
3. Its not worth my time because I am not really going to share my reasoning for them. When it is an obv-case like Fate it is one thing. More nuanced reads - nope. That's how I roll.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Three gets a kay but if you're town it'll make me sad later.

Stop being Sad ... remember its a PARTY!!! You still have your hat.

Why I have your attention -

Your thoughts on Silavor, Gut and danceHello please ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

You are definitely scum. That's why I'm not even going to bother responding to your repeated attacks of "jealously" or "butthurt" claims, because I know you're just scum trying to enrage me and distract the town.

I've distilled your Wall of "I rant" down to this nugget.

You say I am scum antgonizing you to attack me so it would 'distract Town' by my scum-lynch.

Really, that's what you are saying. And it's such a funnily ludicrous argument I don't even know where to begin. So I will not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I know this kind of reaction.

This is the kind of defense you see from scum who've been cornered by a case they think is utter crap. It's just like when The Fonz got lynched back in Stargate SG-1 as SK due to perceived connections to revealed scum.

In fact, it's more than that. MoI just let it be known that he feels ENTITLED to not be the lynch today because silavor is the DESIGNATED lynch today. Look at the last part of that first sentence. It's not "because he's scummier than I am", it's "because that's what you're supposed to do". Then MoI brings up SpyreX from yesterday to try to frighten players out of his lynch. Not convince.

Frighten.

I repeat: This is NOT town defense. And the posts I don't have time to cover right now aren't any better.

MoI: Claim or die.

Lulz. It's not a Town defense? Showing clearly how the entire argument is meta done in a completely half-assed and non-scum-hunting manner isn't Town.

Yes, we will have to disagree completely.

You complete attempt to Straw-man away the fact Silv has committed multple 'scummy plays' while no-one can bring up anything other than 'LOL Meta' and 'This isn't how Town reacts' is pretty telling.

Everyone on my wagon can't be scum. But I have a hard time believe you are this foolish as Town Tar.

I'm not claiming. I don't think I'm even at L-1.

Oh and I eagerly await your response when you actually have time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You are now.

Unvote: Vote Magna

Invictus: BabySpice

Good work Zach

Still not claiming. Not Pro-Town to do so.

Do your worst.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I swear magna. If you're town you deserve the hammer you're about to get.

Nice distancing from the inevitable Mislynch Gamma.

Not claiming as I am now is Pro-Town. If you don't understand why then I can't help you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna if you don't claim then you're going to die. If you wanna spew bullshit about dying being more protown than claiming then yeah you can just go hang out in the dead QT until the game is over.

Pro-Tip Gamma ... what I claim WILL NOT SAVE ME.

Dear god you're being fucking thick.

If I was scum sure as hell I would have been fake-claiming something to save my ass. But as Town that's the worst possible thing you can do.

It's FUCKING PLAYING AGAINST YOUR WINCON.

You and everyone else on the wagon hasn't really addressed anything but "I don't like mean old MoI". At this point I don't fucking really care to try to argue against the wave of DERP.

I'd point to my scum reads and the fact that the Spyrex wagon has scum on it. But no-one on MS bothers to actually think about those things.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Invictus Count

Baby Spice (6): Fate, danceHello, Zachrulez, Benmage, silavor, DGB

Zachrulez (1): Duplicity
Gut (2): VitaminR, ZachRulez
Silavor (4): Gut, Ban, Quilford, Gamma
Dancehello (2): Baby Spice, Nautilius

With 16 alive it takes 9 To hammer an INVICTUS

Oh look, surprise surprise Silvor the obv-scum ISN'T the top Invictus count holder.

It's like scum are working to make sure it doesn't hit them

[MagnaofIllusion]

Its like SCUM are resfusing to invictus vote because "HURR DURR TAR SK IM AFRAID"

Scum like YOU.

HEAHHAHAHHAAAAAAAA

I pray to god my read is wrong Fate. Otherwise your play is so derptastic ...

Actually I don't. Because then I get to point to it forever more as yet another complete failure by Fate.

P.S. Fate

- Gamma replaced Quilford. Probably shouldn't have them both on your Invictus count.

DERP

[MagnaofIllusion]

What WOULD help is those more detailed town reads that you mentioned earlier. I don't care if it's weak reasons or a weak read or whatever but I'm fairly certain that'll help a lot more than everything you're doing now.

I'll make you a deal Gamma.

If you can concisely explain with solid reasoning why me giving the details and reasoning of my Town reads on Zach, DGB and Benmage moreso than my reasoning why players like Silavor, Gut and Nautilus are scum and it makes sense to me then I'll do so by this time tomorrow.

Assuming I'm not lynched before that time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I think your suspicions of sil and gut and naut could fairly easily come from you-scum without much trouble, you're about to die, and if your reasons for thinking that etc. are town are good or a towntell in some way you JUST MIGHT not get noosed. Which last time I checked is beneficial to any win condition you may have.

If you make me wait until tomorrow you'll probably be dead though. I don't need SUPER DETAILED just one-two sentences on why zey town.

Meh that’s not very convincing. And me convincing you really isn’t going to do much at this stage … lets be honest with deadline coming soon the entropic weight of my wagon has pretty much sealed the Day.

And I really want to resist doing it because it’s just wasting my time. No-one is going to bother to look back and say “Oh, he actually was Town so let’s review his reads”. But since I have a little time before I’m sans Computer …

Benmage

– His Town read stems from my experience with Town Benmage. I’m seeing characteristics in his ISO (specifically 2, 5, and 7) that say loud and clear to me “Benmage is Town”.

Zach

– Two things for him

1. His immediate Silavor vote at the start of the Day is Town because Silavor was pretty much confirmed Scum based on Day 1.
2. His willingness to say why Fate’s plan was bad for Town (and it is at this stage) is hugely Town motivated.

DGB

– Her reaction to the Spyrex lynch wagon is Town. Not “Oh my god what did you do” before anyone knew the reaction but mirth (ISO 14). And explanation at 16 as to the realities of the situation. Lastly her Day 2 vote on Gut is absolutely solid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna
Do you agree with this logic:
1) There was scum off Spyrex wagon.
2) Taking away dead flipped town: Duplicity, Quilford, Benmage, Magna, Baby, Illuminatu
Quil is town because of the Kublai invict comment, Ben just really reads as ben town.
Leaving Duplicity, you, baby, Illuminati
And then if you're town and stuff...and have the sort of town read on Duplic....
one of Baby/Illum is scum.

Let's see ...

1. Yes I agree there are scum not on the Spyrex wagon. The volume of said scum of versus on to yet be determined (although I lean much more heavily on than off).
2. I'm trusting you on this not double checking your process in who isn't on the wagon. I'll not argue the Gamma as Town due to the Invict comment by KK at this stage. I agree Benmage is Town. I do know I'm Town. That leaves Duplicity, Baby and Illuminati.

My sorta Town read on Duplicity doesn't remove them at this stage. So yes, wagon analysis says that scum is in Duplicity, Baby, Illuminati.

Your point? I'm not voting on PoE Day 2 when we have active scummy players (like Silavor) floating around. I like VC Analysis but it's not everything, especially before scum flips.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

--

I was to make a comprehensive post re: Sil’s scummy play but Gamma beat me to a sizeable chunk of it in 490.

Illuminati’s explanation for his ‘lack of posting’ strikes me as overwrought and inconsistent with things I have seen in [REDACTED].

--

^scum

So Zachrulez is scum. I’d ask you why but you are scum so whatever answer you give me will be crap.

Thanks for helping me solidify my Zach as Town read.

--

I said he was town around the time he hammered, maybe in D1 twilight. Scum is more careful, this was an obv lulz wagon, no scum in their right mind would hammer - even with the Fate-sheeping excuse. It's not a super-strong town read though - mostly it's tainted by the Lurkville Express.

See here I disagree with you DGB. Look at American Gods Mafia (you know, the game that Fate selectively pulled quotes out of context from).

I quickhammered before a claim Day 2 on Apoc despite commenting that he wasn’t scum earlier in Day 1 and Day 2. I did so pretending that I was just following the wagon that Fate was pushing hard to get a read on Fate. Day 3 I successfully argued my way out of the noose even though my reasoning for the vote as total crap.

Also look at Secret Invasion Mafia. SnakePlissken’s slot ‘quickhammered’ two days in a Row with his double-vote and people still gave him the “Scum would not do that” benefit of the doubt.

Scum, especially newb scum, who sees a chance to hammer a strong Town player like Spyrex when he has an ‘out’ in ‘Fate told me to’ as an excuse certainly might take that chance.

Especially in the environment where “The hammer was too scummy for scum” is alive and well like it is here on MS.

--

The last time I saw this exact arguement, it was also based on a rapid lols lynch, was made by scum, and there was no scum off of that particular wagon.

Link to this please. I’d like to see the what sort of game and when in the game it happened.

--

META RESEARCH

LOLNOTHX

Ok I see. So your half-assed Meta research is ‘compelling’ but you aren’t going to look at any Meta provided by others. Gotcha.

--

*shrug* I pointed out that what Fate said was similar to what I had said previously. Feels like you're looking for a reason to vote me.

You think it feels like Benmage is looking at your play to find reasons you are scummy? Isn’t that what Mafia is all about?

His point here is a very strong one – Fate-Town is very susceptible to buddying / cronyism. So you sidling up beside him with ‘similar’ reads is quite possibly scum doing just that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I don't remember seeing that myself, from my own experience. Mmmmmmm. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know if I should be insulted by your particular choice in condensed paraphrasing there ....

Is it absolutely 100% certain a scum hammer. Of course not. But add in his other play, the meta evidence Gamma and others have provided, and his stategic lurking as my wagon 'exploded' and it isn't a "LULZTOWNCRED" hammer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So scum challenged someone who had a TOWN read on them, in order to erode said townread.

Like I said zach, lol u

No you aren't getting it.

Scum Gut challenged my Town read on Zach to erode that read via "I totally bus as scum".

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's how you erode town reads!

It's like you are playing specifically in a scummy manner because "LULZ NO SCUMMZORS ACT SO SCUMMY".

Oh wait ... that's exactly what you are doing. Feel free to keep it up.

You need a bullet or rope stat.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's odd to me that you're twisting my words in such an obvious fashion. First of all, it was Ban and, clearly, what I meant was that I got the feeling he wanted to vote me and just needed to make up a reason for it (either because his vote is insincere or because he has some sort of gut read he wants to justify). One comment that what Fate said was similar to what I said previously (which was just true, and unless I can read minds, hardly a planned thing) is by no means "cronyism." It was hardly significant enough to change anyone's mind about anyone.

There are a number of elements in this response or about the post in itself that I want to address.

1. If find it very unusual that you specifically cropped my response to only the part where I mistakingly attribute to Benmage instead of Ban yet you address elements that you specifically cropped out in your post. Why would you do so? Here’s my full response for anyone interested.

You think it feels like Benmage is looking at your play to find reasons you are scummy? Isn’t that what Mafia is all about?

His point here is a very strong one – Fate-Town is very susceptible to buddying / cronyism. So you sidling up beside him with ‘similar’ reads is quite possibly scum doing just that.

2. Number one is of note to me because you specifically choose to use only ‘Cronyism’ when I said ‘Cronyism or Buddying’. I find that scummy because you cropped away my response and specifically chose the element that implies you are both Town (Cronyism, which inherently infers players of the same alignment) and avoided directly mentioning the other, Buddying (which implies scum attempting to link themselves to Town for various reasons). That’s suspect when you crop away the full response.

3. You try to out of hand dismiss that it’s a valid tell when it is a strong one in my book. I went back and looked at the sequence of events in the thread to look at you and Fate’s posts regarding Meta.

danceHello inHim is the first to make any sort of Meta comment – his post at

323

specifies my posting is different than [REDACTED]

Tar is next to say something about meta (loosely) in his “aha, I know what MoI scum is like despite never having apparently seen it and just assuming” in

330

.

Fate votes me at

336

because others are willing to. No mention of meta yet.

I can dig a Magna wagon. So much wrong with his last few posts. The whole "none of you know what you're doing but I've caught all the scum for you"-shtick feels incredibly forced. Unvote, Vote: MoI

Here’s your vote. No mention of meta just that some rhetoric (‘it feels wrong’ and 'incredibly forced') basically sheeping Fate.

Duplicity asks for Meta on me at

345

.

Duplicity, here's some games I thought would be roughly comparable that I used to check Magna's meta, having not really played with him before: American Gods, Storms of Swords, Stars Aligned III, MetaMafia.

Here’s where you point out some games of mine for Duplicity. I find this suspect for several reasons.

A. Not a mention about how those games show I am scummy via meta … just here’s some games that you think are similar. No reasons why Meta supports me as scum. This isn't giving any opinion, just doing Duplicity's legwork in a suspect manner.

B. Let’s examine those games – two where I was scum, one where I chose an effective SK route, and one where I was Town. How did you come across those games?

You skipped over my most recently completed Large Theme (Jason’s Superhero Mafia) where I was Town Cop. You also skip over Nik’s Call of Cthulufish and AGM’s Choose Your Side to chronologically find American Gods Mafia. You skip ReaperCharlie’s completely fucked up Metropolis Large Game to get to Storm of Swords and Square Enix 4, Cyclical Experiment, and Blackest Night to get to Stars Aligned 3.

Clearly you aren’t using my wiki (especially since I apparently skipped MetaMafia there somehow whut?) because you skipped over a number of more recent games to drege up Stars Aligned.

I’m very curious why you chose the games you did.

Back to the post rundown ...

Fate posts the first of his highly out-of-context posts ‘analyzing’ my meta at

363.

You immediately hop in and say “That’s what I thought too” at

364.

Again, no actual attempt at analysis from you. Just more agreement with Fate.

End Analysis of Timing

– In both cases you ‘followed’ close on Fate’s heels. When he voted for me saying “I LOVE TO WAGON MOI” you follow closely saying “I can dig it” with some rhetoric. You provide some odd meta links but give no analysis. Fate suddenly give some (awful) analysis and you immediately jump in saying “I agree”. You very much did follow right after his footsteps in a ‘Me Too’ fashion. Scumtastic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I see lurking scum Silavor has returned. Notice he doesn't bother to even say why he hadn't posted and tries to ignore the fact that his wagon is viable. Pro-Tip Sil - scum do exactly what you are trying to do ... act nonchalant when under pressure.

Hey Silavor

- Give me the summary of the reasons you are voting for me. Stat. I'd really like to see what reasons you have for me being scummy as you just vote for my while distancing from Nautilus.

@Illuminati

- I haven't noticed a read from you on Silavor other than his hammer is Null. You specifically have said you are not calling him Town.

Reads on Silavor, Gut and Nautilus please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scum: Illuminati, Zach, MoI, silavor

This reminds me of something - look at how many people are calling Silavor scum but are refusing to vote for him.

Fate and Gut are two I know off the top of my head. When I have more time I'll review who else is. It's rather comical that people say he's scum but outright don't even bother addressing why they aren't voting him or say stuff like "He's a better Invictus vote than actual vote". Seriously.

I'm still waiting for Silavor's reasons why he actually voted for me, Illum's reads on Silavor, Gut and Nautlius, and VitaminR's to pop back up to post something.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, and I notice that Tarh has posted his Limited Access due to RL but never bothered to address all the comments I made in response to his "Oh, sure that's Meta" vote.

RL does happen but he's promised responses and not come through.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well the good thing to come out of this late day competing wagons is that there is plenty of VC analysis that can be done.

DGB I'm counting on you to not let that slip through the cracks ...

Fate despite his inability to given any actual reasons I'm scum is probably just horrible Town.

Scum are going to primarily be found in the following group - Silavor, Gut, Nautilus, VitaminR, Gamma, Tarh

Solid Town reads - DGB, Benmage, Zachrulez, BabySpice

[MagnaofIllusion]

80 = 25+30+25 Gammagooey
78 = 25+25+28 Nautilius
78 = 25+25+28 Fate
78 = 28+25+25 Tarhalindur
58 = 28+30 Ban
53 = 25+28 Zachrulez
53 = 25+28 VitaminR
53 = 25+28 danceHello
53 = 25+28 Gut
53 = 25+28 silavor
50 = 25+25 Benmage
30 = 30 Baby Spice
25 = 25 Duplicity

Players suspiciously not appearing on any wagons

The Illuminati

Hmmm ...

Silavor is lowere than I would have expected but given that he's earned every point he possibly could since two of the four wagons are his I'm still very happily confident he is scum.

Gamma, Naut, Fate, Tarh - at least two more scum here. Ordered weighting based on my personal assessment - Naut, Tarh, Gamma, Fate

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

Thanks for confirming you are scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear Town,

When I flip Town please make sure to Invictus Silavor. And if you can't do him please do Nautilus or Gut.

It's the least you can do after two bad lynches in a row. Especially if somehow you are on both my and Spyrex's lynch and still Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, so you haphazardly gathered various games that just happen to support your 'Meta' analysis.

I note that in MetaMafia I was Town and you breezed right over that to say I'm "Unreasonably Arrogant' only as scum. Noted.

Probably your entire "Meta" research was fudged and you got caught. Scumtastic

[quote=VitaminScum]I never said anything about the strength of buddying as a tell. What I challenged was that one post saying that you agree with someone is strong evidence of buddying. [/quote]

Yeah, way to ignore how I carefully laid you that you buddied Fate on multiple occasions. Also scumtastic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We could lynch real scum today.

Illuminati
Baby Spice

Am I going to have to write up cases?

Um DGB? You just ran your scumputer. Now your Illuminati push I could see from your perspective since they haven’t really been around.

But BabySpice? Who is at the bottom of your scumputer list? Err, not getting it.

Please just vote Silavor-scum and we can move forward at looking at your refined Scum-puter tomorrow.

--

Dear Magna,

Please stop trying to tie yourself to the spyrex lynch. This is not a quicklynch, you've had time to defend yourself. This is not an RVS lynch, there is a case against you. You've had plenty of fair warning about this lynch coming, you've been asked to claim... In other words, this lynch is has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN COMMON with spyrex's. Your ploy of comparing your lynch to spyrex's lynch is a subtle appeal to fear "you guys are gonna fuck up AGAIN", and I would lynch you 1000 times for that reason alone.

Dear Nacho,

This just strengthens my read on your slot as scum. Thanks.

My lynch doesn’t have to be a RVS quicklynch to be absolutely bad like Spyrex’s was. Thanks for strawmanning that argument. I never, EVER, attempted to say they were identical.

Spyrex’s was bad as a stupid RVS lynch.
Mine will be bad because it is comically bad ‘Meta’. That’s it. No-ones actually come through with reasons other than “hey look, I can find a quote in a game that looks like some of MoI’s posts here. He’s obvscum”.

Love, MoI,

DIAF, scum.

--

You have to realise how ridiculous of an accusation this is.

Actually it’s a spot on accusation. Way to handwave as opposed to showing how it is ridiculous.

1. You cherry picked games in your ‘research’ with no rhyme or reason.
2. You’ve never shown how your cherry picked games support your ‘meta’ statements.

Even in Meta, I thought there was a genuine attempt in your posts to understand other people's motivations. This exchange we're having is a great example of why you're different in this game. Every single thing I say you try to twist into something scummy (e.g. how I crop posts (!), which games of yours I randomly picked for meta analysis (!), what word I choose to use, etc.). There is no nuance behind your thinking.

Yes, clearly I’m not trying to analyse players motivations.

Yours, at this stage, I suspect is scum trying to solidify a Pants Head Akimbo lynch.

Your explanations so far have been

1. Uh, those are the games I picked.
2. Yeah, I edited it but the I thought the meaning was clear.
3. I never give anything but results in Large Games.

None of these hold up to any sort of logical analysis. I’ve given plenty of support for my thought process and positions. You’ve basically given “Because”.

--

in his iso 2 with that aggressive and sureness after he just had experiences with his aggressive confident playstyle failing in Metamafia and similar stuff in an ongoing game.

Um, so what. I’ve had lots of games where as Town being strongly aggressive has paid off.

Continue to distance from Silavor thought. You are doing it well.

--

Someone. Fucking. Hammer. Scum.

Then you need another vote on Silavor so someone can do that. Duh.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You better not have unvoted MoI.

Yup they did.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Gammagooey

Only you and Gut remain from KK's list. At this point that certain players haven't bit the dust is highly suspect.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Huh. Okay if you want to get into that. Why do you think danceHello died Instead of other people?

Want the truth? Because a huge number of the lock Pro-Town players are playing a fantastic scum game. That's my suspicion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As another side note.

At this point that certain players haven't bit the dust is highly suspect.

Don't people use this against you all the time? It doesn't actually apply here since you almost got lynched yesterday but I'd still like an answer to the question.

Absolutely do. It happens in most games I live past N2 (which is rare) that the "Why is he alive" talk starts unless I've got a confirmed Town role.

Question to you - don't you think that kill choice was odd as hell?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fate stop being a dickhead. MoI isn't amazingly super town but I would like a Zach lynch more than I would his.

Why do you want a Zach lynch. Explain in pretty prose. Because Town Gamma should want my head after yesterday's Silavor the Town Tracker mislynch. Hell you were voting for me up until the end.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Fate -

Fuck off. Your posting is full of all kinds of pointless stupidity.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

MOI.

IS VOTING.

BECAUSE OF.

A DEAD TOWNIES.

LIST.

THIS.

You are a moron.

KK was killed for a reason. Scum don't go out of their way to kill for the LULZ.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Scum-

Get lynched.

No, seriously fuck off you complete piece of shit windbag.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, I can't wait till postgame either.

So until then,

FUCK OFF.

Vi - Pm me if you'd rather I replace. Because I'm not going to bother with not telling CAPTAIN CAPSDERP not to fuck off whenever I feel it is appropriate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

FOR YOUR EGOS SAKE MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST CLAIM SCUM INSTEAD OF ADMIT THAT IM BETTER THAN YOU THIS GAME

HAHAHAH.

Hey look Fate. Look who won the Best New Player Award.

Yeah, it wasn't you your Egotistical Waste of Human DNA.

Cry all you want about it.

I won. You lost.

[MagnaofIllusion]

INVOKE META SHIELD:
<-- CES/chamber hydra

No.

UNVOTE: Gammagooey
VOTE: Gut

[MagnaofIllusion]

Re-reading, Gut is obviously CES. And CES is exactly the kind of person who would "invoke meta shield" regardless of alignment.

It's 'No' because invoking a 'meta shield' isn't valid when the behavior Gut's slot is showing isn't a Meta Town tell.

CES plays very much like this as scum. So the slot doesn't suddenly stop being scummy because "hey, I'm CES".

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's a meta null tell whereas people have been treating it as a scum tell, so yes I do very much stop being scummy. Do you want to put some actual thought into this or are you just going to go "No, I'm not giving up on this mislynch."?

If it's meta Null then it isn't a pass out of your behavior this game, which is scummy.

If I can be bothered I can actually put together a case ... Fate's rampant douchebaggery has really killed my enthusiasm for this game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I got your back.

Do eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

I feel there is a Kayne West / your avatar joke to be made here but can't come up with it.

Building now ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Review of Gut’s ISO

–

First post is part of the RVS fun wagon on Fate.

Joins the Spyrex wagon 10 hours later supported by ‘Hunch’.

After Silavor hammers Spyrex makes the following post in reasons to Silavor’s “I was only following orders”

You know who else were just following orders? Nazis.

SpyreX had better be scum, Fate. This totally undermines my "woo bandwagonning" meta-policy otherwise.

My question to Gut

– is this the first time you’ve ever seen “woo bandwagon” result in a lynch? Because having an established “meta-policy” of doing it I find it hard to believe to believe you’ve never seen a bad quick-lynch happen before.

Day 1 Ends Here

.

You can't quickhammer Day 1 and then ask that question, silavor.

Vote: Tar
Invictus: silavor

Tar vote out of the blue while Invictusing Silavor. Note no interaction with Tar or even suggestions that Tar ‘feels’ off.

In ISO 5 they begin their ‘push’ on Zach for “weak sensory input” leading them to believe Zach is scum yet no appropriate vote follows.

ISOs 6 to 9 are basic fluffy questions.

ISO 10 he actually addresses a Town read and calls Fate Town for the “Invictus Plan”

Don't see it myself, but I don't mind sheeping Fate et al. here.

Unvote, vote: MoI

So let’s see …

Sheeping Fate Day 1 supposedly undermined your “meta-policy” when Spyrex flipped Town.

Now suddenly Day 2 you are willing sheep him immediately again despite my name not having appeared anywhere in your ISO before this post (and having ostensibly ‘suspicion’ of Tarh, Zach and Silavor).

That 1-2 punch doesn't follow as a Town motivated thought process at all.

It really shouldn't be that hard to figure out what my answer would be - hint: it'd consist of one word.

P.S. I totally bus as scum.

This is in response to my questioning his ‘Zach is scum’ statements.

The “I bus as scum” is useless WIFOMing …

Scum: Illuminati, Zach, MoI, silavor

Well I know two of these are wrong. And suspect one more in Zach. Is Illuminati his 'bussed' buddy?

Also – what happened to Tar? His immediate vote at the start of the Day?

Day 2 Ends Here

So – what are my thoughts

–

He’s provided a total of 1 ‘Town’ read (on Fate, who is a complete sap for Buddying, so no surprise there) and ‘Scum’ reads or votes on Tarh, myself, Zach, Illuminiti and Town-Silavor.

I see no scum-hunting - no actual analysis of why anyone is scummy. So they are free to throw anyone other than Fate into their scum-pile at a moment’s notice whenever the wind blows.

None of this is really approaching the game from a Town perspective, IMO.

The coming alive when under fire and trying to use a Meta-shield is just the cherry on top.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well in their defense people haven't actually said they'd hammer and asked for a claim ...

Yeah I know it is a Formality but I like to stand by them ... I'm old-fashioned like that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reeeally prefer a MoI lynch. I feel iffy about this Gut wagon.

Hey you know what would be great ... actually providing all that "Why these games make MoI scum" meta evidence you've asserted you had but never actually provided. The 'Its a Large Game so I don't provide reasoning' doesn't really cut it.

You've got time ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because the implication is incredibly obvious?

Oh, it was obvious? It looks fairly possible to me of Scum buddy plopping down an soft vote on fairly safe partner (Silavor was going to catch flack, you Invictused him) and then moving off to an actual wagon as time went on.

So yeah, given you didn’t bother to do anything else (like, you know, actually question Tar) doesn’t look good, IMO.

"I bus as scum." is me pointing out the laziness of your logic.

Really?

1. Have a read on Zach as Town.
2. Scum-read Gut comes in and throws down “I think he’s scum” posts on Zach.
3. Town Read on Zach is strengthened.

You can call that lazyiness of logic. It’s not but at least I’m providing more than

“Gut is scum, gut”.

When people attack me for playing normally, hell yes, I invoke meta.

Really? Because I’m not seeing Town CES (ala Return to Liten) at all. There you at least provided a minimum of reasoning as you posted votes. And provided insight as to ongoing events in the game.

Here it’s just “Its Gut” and fluff until today when you began fighting for your life.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh look, Nautilus scum is vainily looking for the scum off the Spyrex wagon as opposed to the heaping spoonfuls sitting there on it.

Can we get on with either lynching scum-Gut? Or hell lynching me so I don't have to listen to scum and DERP-Fate going on and on about how I'm obv-scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Fucking what?

There is one scum in group.
More on the wagon you scumbag.

Keep trying to look for one as opposed to many :roll:I

[MagnaofIllusion]

And a bpv... would show no kill despite KK flipping with invictus ... and everyone would go, oh KK invictusd quil....lynch quil.

WELL THEN. Time to reexamine gamma when I get the chance.

Didn't it strike you as odd that Gamma, who basically called me a good lynch and scummy Day 2 didn't come out firing with a Vote on me Day 3 after Silavor flipped scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No hammering yet.

Why? Seriously you are just drawing out the day.

I'm being lynched on Meta. That's it. No more and no less.

Fate continues his DERP-tastic play of just saying "MoI is scum" over and over. Appeal to Repetition ... great Town play. I suppose at this point you might just be scum because I don't think you are even this bad a Town player.

Tarh's large Meta reasoning is funny. He's assesing that MetaMafia supports me being scum which is exactly the opposite of Gammagooey's assessment. If you didn't read closely Tar I was Town in that game.

VitaminR just recently admitted that his entire reasoning is "Gut". Well, I guess my response to "It's unexplainable Gut" is "Either you are a moron Town or scum".

I'd rather see which of the players has the balls to actually throw the hammer. I'd self-hammer so I can escape the non-scumhunting clusterfuck that is this game but I'm Town so I want scum to have to actually commit to my mislynch.

Notes for the Road

-

As I stated at the start of the Day - Gammagooey's start of the Day play isn't Town at all. Town-Gamma should have been more than happy to start the wagon against me. Scum-Gamma on the other hand can keep his hands 'clean'. Note he's not voting for or even mentioning Gut (even in his Invictus posts) yet has tap-danced his way to keep off my lynch until he can jump on when it is 'inevitable'.

Tar's "I've been playing this way to draw a NK" is pretty ludicrous. He hasn't been playing in any strong Town fashion at all. And his 'Bodyguard' claim seems very well crafted to explain why he's still alive when "Hmmm, why didn't they kill the perceived uber-Town players".

Gut is lurking out like a Boss now that the pressure has shifted from himself to me. Make sure he dies once I flip Town.

Scum-Pool

: Gammagooey, Gut, VitaminR, Tar, Nautilus. That's not everyone (at least one is lurking in my strong Town reads) but I bet I've got at least two in those five.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey DGB where's that updated Scum-puter you talked about?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, and because Naut-scum did such a half-assed job on their fake-VC analysis on the

Spyrex

wagon I’ll actually do one for everyone.

Vote Count II:

Spyrex

(LYNCH) ~ Nautilius, Zachrulez, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, Ban,

danceHello

, Gut, DrippingGoofball, Fate,

Silavor

Gut (L-7) ~

Spyrex

,

Kublai Khan

, Duplicity

Kublai Khan

(L-8) ~ Gammagooey,

Hinduragi

Fate (L-8) ~ Benmage, MagnaofIllusion
Tarhalindur (L-9) ~

Baby Spice

(Minimum L-10)

Not Voting: The Illuminati

Unknown alignment on the Spyrex wagon – Nautlilus, Zachrulez, Tarh, VitaminR, Ban, Gut, DGB, Fate

Unknown alignments off the Spyrex wagon – Duplicity, Gammagooey, Benmage, Illuminati

That’s an 8 to 4 ratio. Is the ratio of scum on to off 2 to 1? Most likely, IMO.

Nautilius is just arbitrarily throwing Town-reads (including Gammagooey which is funny since his ‘confirmed’ status has been blown up via deduction and Day 3 play) to justify hunting and pecking off the wagon (where scum Nautlius knows there is less of his partners to catch).

So in that vein – Zach, Ban and DGB are all pretty good Town reads for me. And Fate is just pride-wounded, dumb Town.

So we have multiple scum in Nautilus, Tarh, VitaminR, Gut. Lynch / Invictus there and Town is in good shape going forward.

--

And as a reminder –

Those who screamed “What a Stupid Lynch” before Spyrex’s alignment was even known
– dance, Tar,

Quilford

Gammagooey

One of Tar and Gamma is certified scum. Maybe both of them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah I know I have a workman in the house installing a new kitchen.

Can you do me a favor?

Please list all the wagons at their peaks. I'll do the rest.

I have a meeting coming up. I'll try to round it up for you this afternoon, ok?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wagons at their height –

Day 1

Fate RVS Wagon (6) - Quilford, DrippingGoofball, Gut, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, danceHello

Spyrex DERP Wagon (10) - Nautilius, Zachrulez, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, Ban, danceHello, Gut, DrippingGoofball, Fate, silavor

Day 2

Silavor Day 2 Wagon Part 1 (7) - Fate, Gammagooey, Duplicity, Benmage, Tarhalindur, Nautilius, MagnaofIllusion

MoI Day 2 Wagon Part 1 (8) - Fate, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, silavor, danceHello, Gut, Gammagooey, Zachrulez

MoI Day 2 Wagon Part 2 (8) - Fate, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, silavor, danceHello, Gut, Gammagooey, Nautilius

Silavor Day 2 Wagon Part 2 (9) - Duplicity, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Ban, Baby Spice, The Illuminati, Zachrulez, Gammagooey, Fate

Day 3

Guts wagon Day 3 (6) - Zachrulez, The Illuminati, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, DrippingGoofball, Duplicity

MoI wagon Day 3 (6) - Fate, VitaminR, Tarhalindur, Nautilius, Gut, Gammagooey

[MagnaofIllusion]

DGB's absolute Town for this last exercise. I specifically gave her every wagon and she properly excluded the Fate RVS and the doubled Silavor / MoI wagons.

Interesting that Zach and Fate both show up as the top outputs and both are Town reads for me. I'm guessing that my 'Hiding in Town reads' scum is one of those two ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

First glance and the computer still looks retarded.

MoI I derailed for ya before... tar might want to hang today instead of you... no need to rush.

All should have 2-3 invictus

invictus, gut Nautilus, Tar

Ben

- do you like normal VC analysis? If so then don't knock the Scum-puter. I'm just now getting to understand how it works. Go look at Cyclical Experiment 1.0 where as Serial Killer she used to to nail the scum (and would have won if she hadn't gambitted with her claimed abilities).

I also think that Invictus group is way solid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Keep ignoring your scummy as hell "WHY DID YOU LYNCH SPYREX OH MY GOD" response and the accusations that your play this game hasn't remotely resembled anyone wanting to draw a NK Tar.

The 'Head in Sand" defense is working for you well.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've seen a lot of stupid refusing to claim shenanigans from players on epicmafia.

Quite frankly … I don’t give a rats ass what you think about claiming. I follow a standard that says the following “You don’t claim until you are at L-1 and someone has offered to hammer”. You can look at any of my games (barring circumstances like Cop Guilties). That’s what I do as Town. Look at Kdub’s “Seinfeld Mafia” Day 1.

You don’t like it. I get that. You, however, aren’t the end-all-be-all authority on Mafia play, no matter how neat you hat looks.

Going after Vitamin's choices of games to meta you for instead of his actual play

Oh, so everyone should be free to ignore my play and just rely on ‘meta’ (and Pro-Tip … Vitamin later even recanted that it was any more than ‘gut’) but I can’t attack said ‘meta’ which was crap.

Yeah, that’s inconsistent as hell. Next.

Going off a day 1 scumlist of a dead townie when scum have killed inside that list And scum have an additional incentive towards killing players that are off-track

Oh … so KK was killed to be ‘random’. Noted. Hell, your own argument can be turned around. I can say, for example, that it strengthens the “KK’s list was pretty solid” since they chose to shoot inside it N2 to “throw players off-track”. This is a WIFOM WIFOM hand-waving exercise on your part.

Your iso of Gut has no objectivity or room for doubt left in

Unless you are going to ding Fate for the same behavior save it.

I might try to help DGB get the Zach lynch if Zach doesn't have anything good to say on Sunday but I'd rather lynch you than Gut because given your play I think you're more likely to be scum than him, and Fate will never, ever give up on getting you lynched, regardless of his alignment. If you are town then lynching another town player that isn't you will probably lose us the game at this point, because Fate will scream his way to your lynch by the end of the game 100% guaranteed and if you are town then maybe people will finally be able to shut the hell up and consider other people's opinions instead of tunneling for the rest of the game with their own reads. (and this applies to way more players than just you Fate so don't be a whiny bitch about it)

Oh, so Fate’s horrid play is a good reason to lynch me just to prove how bad he is. Noted.

Here's a hint - instead of giving in to Fate who posts like a spoiled 7 year old not getting their way try ignoring him.

Why don’t you lay out why Gut is Town? With supported reasons. Because just saying “ I think he’s Town” is cutting it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lynching MoI is NOT about egos or who's better or any of the FUCKING SHIT.

Its about MoI being FUCKIGN SCUM OMG SCUM SO SCUM IT HURTS.

Yeah, this is FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Keep lying to yourself.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I mean he's still pushing Tar based on a DAY ONE lynch reaction, he was using "Lol KK lists" earlier, and now "scumputer ftw" is his scumhunting excuse d'jour.

Oh, so a scummy reaction on Day 1 suddenly stops being scummy on Day 3 just because two days have passed

Yeah, that's so fucking stupid ... I don't even ....

Go back to your pointless Caps Lawk Ego Bullshit. When you try to reason things out you just look sad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can't wait till you flip scum.

Oh the vindication....

Its going to be bittersweet because of how FUCKING LONG IT TOOK but I'll still get a pretty good feeling out of your scumflip.

And when I flip Town it's just another in the long list of DERP FATE HATES MOI failures that you are known for as Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Have you READ ANY OF HIS FUCKING POSTS?

He has not commented on half the game. HE is trying his DAMNEST to not tie himself to anyone, thats what his whole play has been BASED ON.

Idiot. You clearly aren't reading.

I certainly didn't list a bunch of Town reads (4) and a bunch of scum reads.

Keep lying in whatever ego-driven vain effort to 'prove' how 'awesome at Mafia' you are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll bet that there are at least two and probably at least 3 scum in this group. Rest of the scum were probably early on that wagon (scum points for Naut and Zach).

Other than the fact that you are on the Spyrex wagon you have any logic to support why you think this?

Because a pants on head quicklynch of Town player Spyrex says to me "More scum on than not". Clear as day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

There could be all the scum, or no scum on the lulzwagon. Aynthing in between.

I put an average number of scum in my algorithm.

I know you do .. and I appreciate the solid scientific method to your madness.

But I will eat the hat that Spyrex invariably would have had he lived if more scum are off that wagon than on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

DGB if Gut is town and gets lynched what do you think will happen tomorrow?

And if MoI is Town ( I am, but you are playing the What if Game) and gets lynch what do you think will happen tomorrow?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No hammer from me. When you get one of my scum reads there I will be happy to.

Mod

I will be VLA for the weekend as usual for family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, and I shant be claiming anything at all, ever.

Oh this I don't get. Why did you vote me solely for not claiming when I was at L-2?

I have a Town read on your slot but I trust enough in DGB's Computer output after seeing this to say the following -

Claim in your next post or I will hammer you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fate continues to be the Lead Cheerleader of the "I'm a Moron" squad.

Seriously. I could have hammered Zach and could right now. But I don't because I have a Town read on him. That's what Town do. They don't hammer someone and then immediately point fingers saying "This is your fault Gammagooey".

But Fate, he's "LULZ MOI IS SCARDZ TO HAMMER".

Despite the fact that I'll be Invictused regardless what I do. So if I was scum like Fate claims I'd be all over the hammer since I'm dying anyway. Especially if Zach is Town. But don't let common sense (hell or any sort of sense) get in the way of your CAPZ LAWK stupidity.

But Fate he's "OMG THE SCUMZORE DOCTORZ WILL PROTECTZ HIM".

First that's pretty solid WIFOM bucketting. And great set-up speculation.

VitaminR continues to pretty much sit on the sideline and do nothing other than mildly suggest that he MIGHT support a wagon on candidates that aren't viable in the least.

And what happened to Gut? Hmmm? Off the hook and suddenly his desire to post disappears like the pressure on him. Yeah, scum actually dodged a bullet with that one yet again.

I'll respond to posts tomorrow when I have more time.

But for now ...

UNVOTE: Gut (unfortunately his scummy ass isn't dying today)
VOTE: Tarh- The next most viable scum read wagon I have currently.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, I'm up for a Gut lynch.

Get back in there. Tar isn't beingn lynched.

Where were you when I was on Gut all the rest of the day ...

UNVOTE: Tarh
VOTE: Gut

@Zach

- If you think Gut is more likely scum than me feel free to join the growing wagon.

More commments tonight.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Too bad you don't want to actually lynch scum like Gut Benmage ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ur a lylo liability...right?

I advocate my own lynches when town and in such situations.

I'm only a LYLO liability if we don't actually lynch some scum. Like Gut or Nautilus. But this game is such a cluster-fuck I'm not going to cry if I have to get lynched today to get some actual scum lynched tomorrow and to appease all those players going "He can't live its too dangerous" (and there are some scum in there. Probably Gammagooey).

And even if I do die today I ask the remaining Town to stop listening to Fate. He really doesn't have a clue. All he's done is focus on me to the exclusion of ANYONE else since Day 1. He's probably not scum and just typical stupid and ego-driven Fate. But following him will run Town into the ground regardless. It's not like he's going to ever be NKed if he is Town since his play is so Pants-on-Head.

@TOWN

- Do you think I am scum with Zachrulez? Because that's the ONLY way I could have possibly passed hammering him not once but twice. Especially since my death is being signed off on as 'necesarry' regardless of alignment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Eh.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

And you ask why I think you are scum?

Your reason for voting me was

1. Unexplainable 'gut' after you folded on your initial "It was Meta" stance.
2. Derp-Following Fate.

Now you're once again hopping on a bandwagon with nada in the way of explanation. Just "Hop Hop Hop".

I checked your ISO. Not a peep about Duplicity before this vote. Scumtastic.

Also I see no signs of actual scum-hunting in your ISO. Your only posts of substance are defenses from Ban and myself. And some soft "CES is my little brother, blah, blah, blah" useless posting that attempts to give him a "He's always scummy" pass.

Following Pants-on-Head-Town Fate around while you flails is a great Scum tactic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I never asked why you think I'm scum. I asked whether you do. As in what probability you assign to me being scum. But anyway.

Aside from the pointless nitpicking you aren’t going to get a “What % chance is VitaminR” scum form me. That’s needlessly assigning totally subjective numbers. If I think you are scum I think you are scum.

It was only 1. I'm not a Fate-sheep. I just happened to agree with Fate on you. And you need to get over whatever hang-up you have about Fate (same goes for Fate, btw).

You aren’t a Fate-sheep? Interesting given that you just happily jumped on Duplicity right after Fate with no reasoning. And haven't pretty much done anything other than slap your vote with him since Day 2 began.

If the same goes for Fate why haven’t you said word one about it all game? You’ve never wavered from “I agree with Fate” during all his pointless rhetorical fluff. The only thing you mentioned was that you didn’t want Gamma to replace out (which looks like tons of grandstanding, BTW).

Oh yeah, look at the crazy bandwagonning I've been doing! I've voted like three players all game.

Hey look, a Strawman. The bandwagoning isn’t why you are scum-tastic. It’s the way you have basically made all non-RVS votes with no reasoning while conveniently bandwagonning that makes you so. Oh and you were on the totes scum Spyrex bandwagon.

I mentioned being willing to lynch him once before, for what it's worth.

Point me out to the post where you detail why you were willing to lynch him please.

God, you're so annoying. You need to seriously get over yourself. I get that you may think I'm scum. I don't think my play looks particularly pro-town. But how is giving my opinion on CES "useless posting"? Why is everything I do scummy just because you have mentally categorised me some sort of mindless Fatesheep that you must be an ass to all game long?

You admit that your play isn’t Pro-Town and call me annoying for drawing the conclusion you are scum? Lulz.

Your opinion on Gut is useless because it is based on giving him a “CES is always scummy looking” pass. Sorry, that’s pure crap. If he plays scummy he should be hung high. And the only reason you aren’t voting him (since you are specifically admitting that Gut’s play is scummy) is because he’s your ‘little brother’. That’s the worst possible reason I can see.

Yeah, the "You are annoying" fake emotion is a nice touch, BTW.

Your reads are the opposite of mine. I know I’m Town.
You dropped your vote on me for “UM,NOTHING” reasons and have held it there for two days.
You aren’t scum-hunting.

If you are Town you are doing it wrong. But I seriously doubt you are at this stage.

Gut and Nautilus are pretty solidly your partners. Figuring out any others will take more work.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You went after me not knowing it was me thinking I was a nice juicy mislynch and you refused to give up on it when the truth came out. Now you're just bullshitting to try and get the lynch through. This is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I chose to hide my identity for a while.

Nice try. You just grabbed a post from Day 1 (before any flips had happened) and tried to equate it this game. For the record note I didn't call you scum until after you participated in the horrible Spyrex Day 1 lynch and then made us some babble about how it "undermined" your Bandwagonning standard play that you back-tracked on later. I'm judging your slot on your votes and play.

Your play is scumtastic. It doesn't matter whether you 'hid your identity' or not. In fact I'd say you did that so you could have an 'out' if you got under pressure by sayikng "Hey, it's me CES don't lynch me for Meta". Which is exactly what you ended up doing. CES in Return to Liten didn't only appear when his name was in the spotlight of a wagon. Just like you are doing now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, this is a game and I want to enjoy myself. I've hinted at this a couple of times already, but I guess it wasn't clear enough. Could you tone down things a little bit? I find it really hard to have discussions with people who persist in being so abrasive.

Oh I'm sorry I'm not really caring as Fate's been his abrasive regular self all game and the only peep you made is when Gamma 'claimed' he was going to replace.

If you think suspecting you and calling you scum is abrasive behavior then so be it. It's not changing.

You haven't provide any reasons in this discussion disputing my points. You are just hiding behind the "I like to have fun, you aren't playing nice" shield as opposed to showing why my reasons for suspecting you aren't valid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let me drag up a quote from you from that game. Note: MoI was scum that game.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him.

Oh, so dragging a quote from a particular moment in the game demostrates how, as a whole, the game went?

Let's have some specifics. What Day was that? What was the wagon situation? If you are going to go "Meta" give some back-up rather than just an isolated line that you weakly try to link to "Meta".

[MagnaofIllusion]

By my count we have something like an hour left to deadline. Who's on right now that can make a lynch happen?

The Mod's count-down in the last post says deadline is at 9:00pm EST, so in about 7 hours.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then we are done. I refuse to waste my time arguing with someone who's this thoroughly unpleasant to talk to. There's no point in explaining my actions to you, because you interpret EVERYTHING as scummy anyway, from the way I crop posts to accusing me of grandstanding and fake emotion (wtf?), and in the most odious and self-righteous way. It is a waste of my time, since you cannot evaluate anything I say objectively.

So basically - you don't want to both to explain your motivations so you are taking your ball and going home. Nicely played ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look how cute dumbFate and his pals aka scum show up all at once ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I'm wrong about this then well my bad. You can hate on me in post-game. Or tomorrow if you're a living person and want to show me the power of your haterade.

I doubt you are wrong. Mis-lynching is what scum do to acheive their wincons.

I note that Gut never claimed despite being at L-1 twice and not a peep out of anyone about that.

Funny, that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Funny, you pot kettle black son of a scumbitch.

Nice reaction to a Duplicity lynch

I have him as a Town read you moron. Of course I think he was a mislynch pushed through but scum protecting the obv-scum Gut buddy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If MoI doesn't die tonight I just don'[t know what I'd fucking do

Probably scream ineffecitively with pointless capitalization as usual.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Given the speed of Dup's lynch though I would speculate both MOI and Gut have opposite alignments from him. And I don't see why Illuminati would be tomorrow's lynch via scum Dup.

Oh, so I'm scum with Gut. Gotcha.

Level with me Ban ... are you the sneaky scum hiding in my Town-reads?

You did do a great job of distancing from VitaminR if you are. Probs on that if it is true.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nice game scum. Well played.

Thanks for the non-Vi setup Vi. Subverting expectations is a good thing. And thanks for modding and keeping the dead QT interesting as usual.

DGB thanks for giving me a Sekrit scum-tell on you!!!

Tarh you can't feel too bad. Had you not kept Town afloat two lynches ago the decision last night was moot. Good work since the rest of Town collectively wore Pants on Head.

Ban I love your Fate hate but I'm going to have to lynch you / Korlash on sight at least once for this game.

Also - I officially hate each and every one of the scum team who DIDN't hammer me whenever they got the chance (over and over and over) . Making me have to wallow in the misery that was this Town was cruelty.

I had two reads that were good and the rest were crap. This is why I refuse to play with Captain Derp often ... his play is so bad it infects my system.