Newbie #228 - The Doom of Tinytown (Game Over!)

[viper0933]

Oops. I mean "evidence again

st

people". Sorry about that.

[Arvadite]

I know think should be now think and anyone with common sense should have gotten that error. And for the last time when I target you with a specific example, make sure you respond to that. I am in no way referring to you two being a couple. I said its more likely, not that it exists. What I was referring to was I am trying to find out why you took your vote off of me for no reason. You obviously wanted me at three votes and retract after nothing has changed. Your reasoning was that nobody needs a third vote on them now. Its been two weeks, so we should have more than enough evidence to make a vote. And if your going to keep making stupid remarks about my arguments its because nobody has said anything to prove them wrong, they just ignore and then say they are old. And I would appreciate it if you would back up your arguments with a vote rather then unvoting me but still acting as if I have done something wrong.

[viper0933]

Just because I don't vote for you doesn't mean I think you're town. I think Erotomachia is a pretty likely scum, and you are just bumping yourself up the ladder. I would appreciate if you think before you post. Plus, I just started suspecting you again, and yet you think I did since the time that I unvoted you. (insert big red X here)

And really, you didn't answer my question that I asked what, 3 times?

Why do you think Iammars and I are a more likely scumpair!!! You seem to be ignoring my questions too. So if you think that's a scum tell, it goes right back at ya.

You seem to want me dead for things that you're doing yourself.

I took my vote off of you because, like I said, "It wasn't doing much good". We were focusing on other things and you didn't seem like the right lynch anymore.

And look at this.

unvote: Arvadite
vote: Erotomachia

This has been something that's been boiling under the surface for a while -- but that last post puts him over Arvadite in suspicion for me.

1) He says that a fourth-vote on me would be from scum (post #38) and ignores the fact that he should be considering that I could be scum. I pointed this out to him (#39) and he didn't comment on his failure to consider that point when he responded (#47).

2) When he did respond (#47), it was to say that he was only "thinking out loud" in post 39 -- and to accuse me of getting "really defensive" despite the fact that I've explained how very valid that attitude is when being put one away from a lynch without reason and so early. He fails to comment on Arvadite's behavior OR to remove his vote from me, despite claiming that it was random.

3) Only after Arvadite's gotten up to three votes does he post anything about Arvadite's actions saying he'll "watch them both closely" (post #98 -- referencing both Arva & viper -- apparently, only deeming third votes worthy of mention when someone joins Arva in the behavior)

4) He misreads RA's post and looks rather eager to get RandomActs to explicitly say that he's naming viper and me as scum (#111). Despite the fact it's explained rather quickly that he's completely wrong, he decides not to comment on that.

5) In his last post, he completely misrepresents what I said (that I fight hard regardless of role) as me saying that I'm definitely town

because

I'm fighting hard. He calls it "hypocritical" to keep a FIRST vote on someone I thought behaved scummily -- as though that's the same thing as placing a third vote for no reason.

I think he's protecting Arvadite. That might mean they're scum together -- might not. Either way, it reflects poorly on Erotomachia.

You seem to think that MeMe is connected to me because she unvoted 5 posts after mine. She seems to have good reason. I think you're just being ignorant. You seem to want another reason to put the suspicion on me. I'm not buying it. You are just looking for a reason to keep the blame off of yourself, and you're only making it backfire.

Vote: Arvadite

I'd love to point out all the flaws in your plan, but seeing as I don't want that big of a post, I'll end it here. More later.

[Mr. Flay]

Eighth Vote Count of Day One:

Erotomachia - 2 (Kelly Chen, ChrisV)
Arvadite - 2 (RandomActs, viper0933)
viper0933 - 1 (Arvadite)

Not voting - 2 (Iammars, Erotomachia)

With seven players alive, four votes will lynch normally, although three votes would be sufficient under most cases to lynch at deadline (Saturday, May 20th at midnight US Central time).

Right now no one meets those criteria.

[Arvadite]

Stop misreading things that I stated. I already said in my post why I think you two are more likely connected than others, Iammars coming out of nowhere to defend you in his posts (read mine over again). Why didn't i seem like the right one to lynch anymore? Nobody had changed any arguments or anything. In fact, there was more evidence against me than when you voted. I was stating that it was unlogical. And what does "not doing any good" mean? That seems like your only voting to try and get someone lynched, not attack someone who you think is scum. If it wasn't doing any good how come you in fact voted for me again because I don't see how its doing any more good now than it was then.

[viper0933]

Tell me where I misread you.

And you never said that he came out of nowhere- wait a second. That's wrong already! He was saying earlier that he was going to post a large post, so don't pull that "he came out of nowhere" crap.

You didn't seem like the right one to lynch because I didn't think we needed a lynch right then.

You think I'm only trying to get someone lynched?! You are a quite logical vote, and when I had my vote on you a while, I retracted it. When you responded to Iammars's post, you used a bunch of crap logic and I only pointed it out. It does more good now because you didn't post good logic in your post.

So basically, I'm trying to get someone lynched rather than to find scum? (insert big red X here) I posted my reasons. You seem to be getting desperate rather than finding scum yourself. (the yourself means the "finding scum" part)

I don't like the way you're acting. Iammars seems to be most connected to me because I was arguing with you the whole game, and he posted his suspicions about you? If there's no agreeing/disagreeing, this wouldn't be a logical game.

So basically, here's your arguments and my reactions to it.

"Stop misreading things that I stated": Show me. Other than that "know" and "now" thing, I don't see much misreading by me going on.

"I already said in my post why I think you two are more likely connected than others, Iammars coming out of nowhere to defend you in his posts (read mine over again)": LOL! You're just saying that because I posted flaws in your logic. At least, it seems like it.

"Why didn't i seem like the right one to lynch anymore? Nobody had changed any arguments or anything. In fact, there was more evidence against me than when you voted": That doesn't mean that you were the only person who had evidence against you. Everyone seemed to forget you when Erotomachia posted scummy posts. I didn't know who to vote for, and I wanted there to be more discussion, because either you or Eroto might've exposed their scum partner, unless you both are scum. I have almost no doubt now that at least one of you are scum.

"I was stating that it was unlogical": I can't change that, although I can state my reasons

"And what does "not doing any good" mean?": It means that I don't think we'd have much to go on if you were lynched.

"That seems like your only voting to try and get someone lynched, not attack someone who you think is scum.": I stated why it was wrong. Look near the top for this argument.

"If it wasn't doing any good how come you in fact voted for me again because I don't see how its doing any more good now than it was then." OMFG. You are just making things hard on yourself. You are acting pretty scummy with all those flaws in your logic, and it's definatly doing more good now with new evidence around.

Anything else I should state?

[Iammars]

Stop misreading things that I stated. I already said in my post why I think you two are more likely connected than others, Iammars coming out of nowhere to defend you in his posts (read mine over again). Why didn't i seem like the right one to lynch anymore? Nobody had changed any arguments or anything. In fact, there was more evidence against me than when you voted. I was stating that it was unlogical. And what does "not doing any good" mean? That seems like your only voting to try and get someone lynched, not attack someone who you think is scum. If it wasn't doing any good how come you in fact voted for me again because I don't see how its doing any more good now than it was then.

Why did I come out of nowhere to defend viper, because I don't see him doing anything wrong, so why should I attack him?

[viper0933]

Along with that, you have been acting quite scummy since what, page 3-5? It took a little break, but then you act real scummy again. I'd be surprised if he attacked me.

[Arvadite]

I fucking said he defends you out of nowhere in his post

[viper0933]

...and I said that he said he was making a post.

[Arvadite]

and I didn't say that you should attack him, I was stating that you defended someone who wasn't under attack for no apparent reason. And I'm not gettign desperate, I am just really getting tired of viper stating hes made flaws in my comments when all he has done is word twisting.

[viper0933]

Once again, tell me where I twisted your words! Stop ignoring that!

[RandomActs]

Arvadite has a point that in that viper0933 has been rather cavalier with his votes. This is how I interpret viper's actions: I think viper got caught up in the Arvadite bandwagon and voted without working out his own reasons. He probably had a gut feeling and went with it, encouraged by my own vote just before. Then when viper saw he could not "borrow" my reason for voting (#66 - based partly on anecdotal evidence from my own experience) he unvoted. Viper was right in saying that it "wasn't doing any good." But I think it's more accurate to say he could not adequately explain in logical terms what his gut was telling him.

I don't find this particularly scummy. It takes time for newbies to progress from acting on their guts to acting on their own reasoned analysis. Neurons or whatever get rearranged and it doesn't happen instantly. I could be wrong, but I think vipers actions can be explained by his noobishness.

I suppose the same could be said of Arvadite. Perhaps that early 3rd vote on MeMe was just a newbish mistake. But in the current conflict between them, I see Arvadite trying to exploit viper's lack of coherent reasoning in his voting pattern. That's a valid path for investigation, but I hardly think Arvadite has room to criticize when it comes to unexplained votes. Arvadite is attacking along a line on questioning that he hasn't fully defended himself, at least not to my satisfaction. I see, therefore, a serious lack on consistency in Arvadite's argument. So for that reason, I'm keeping my vote where it is - on Arvadite

[Kelly Chen]

I'm here...

I do think it was useful to see that Iammars' post only showed suspicion of Arvadite and Erotomachia.

I can interpret that RandomActs is trying to protect Erotomachia.

I am feeling good about viper being town.

@Chris - The 5 games thing only affects whether you play a newbie as a newbie or as an IC. This is only my third newbie. You don't have to play in any.

The game you linked to was pretty interesting, btw.

[Arvadite]

Iammars' post only showed suspicion on Erotomachia and I because he didn't bring anything new to the table. He just restated everyone elses arguments.

[viper0933]

Not always. He did about half the time or so, but he stated new arguments, which shed a whole new light in the situation.

[viper0933]

Oh, and he brought the argument against you up again.

[Erotomachia]

I'm here as well...I'm just a little tired of the game.

I still need to read Arvadite's and viper0933 recent lengthy exchange.

I was tempted to vote for Iammars because of how he has managed to maintain a low profile, but he hasn't done anything suspicious. I have difficulty calling his actions "scummy."

I've also thought of voting for Arvadite, but that would be a third vote against him and I still need to read his most recent posts before I make a decision. I've just realized I should probably read before posting, haha. Ah well.

[RandomActs]

I can interpret that RandomActs is trying to protect Erotomachia.

Really? Never mentioned him. If anything I was afraid of being linked to viper with that post, and I'm not at all comfortable with that. So how do you find that post protecting Erotomachia?

[Kelly Chen]

Erotomachia seems more likely to be lynched than viper.

[RandomActs]

Erotomachia seems more likely to be lynched than viper.

Ok, but that still doesn't answer my question.

[Iammars]

and I didn't say that you should attack him, I was stating that you defended someone who wasn't under attack for no apparent reason. And I'm not gettign desperate, I am just really getting tired of viper stating hes made flaws in my comments when all he has done is word twisting.

Last time I checked, you were accusing him and MeMe of being a likely scum pair. Sounds like attacking someone to me.


I am cuurently up for an Arvadite lynch. Anyone else who isn't already voting Arvadite up for it as well?

[Kelly Chen]

I can interpret that you are hoping to dissuade the town from lynching Erotomachia, by making your case against Arvadite. You don't have to actually talk about Erotomachia to protect him.

[Kelly Chen]

That said, I would vote Arvadite to avoid No Lynch. He's definitely worth voting.

[Arvadite]

fine then this should help you

unvote: viper0933
vote: Arvadite