Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd link you to the Scummies Winvitational if it hadn't been swallowed up by the site crash as why I disagree with your assesment of Ftf.

That's not exactly helpful to me, you understand. Nor do I see why you feel the need to defend Fishy at this point.

Because I think he's more useless than scum; I'd rather if you're going to have a pointless wank fest it at least be focused on Rhinox or SA; someone I think is much more likely to be scum.

DDD is similar, but with less posts. Has more reads, but a lot of his posts just ring false to me, particularly in regards to some newer player like Macrophage doing something newby-stupid and DDD going for cheap shots rather than understanding. A lot of unhelpful sarcasm. Yet I know from sad experience that DDD does that shit as town, so I'm more just aggravated than wanting to hammer him at this point.

Macrophage has admitted to being an alt with approx. 15 games under his main’s belt. If your town read if based on a Macro-noob read you need to recalibrate because that simply isn’t the case.

[Magua]

also if you don't mind me asking... you haven't really taken a stance on me, voided, kortul, or sa? I understand focussing on ddd and macro since they are the top wagon; but why focus more on fishy, hiplop, rhinox and dcl than the rest of us?

Because I have reads on them and I don't have reads on the others, including you.

Re: DCL: Fishy scumread, Rhinox townread, Macro townread, null on DDD

Macrophage has admitted to being an alt with approx. 15 games under his main’s belt. If your town read if based on a Macro-noob read you need to recalibrate because that simply isn’t the case.

Link plz.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Macrophage has admitted to being an alt with approx. 15 games under his main’s belt. If your town read if based on a Macro-noob read you need to recalibrate because that simply isn’t the case.

Link plz.

Link.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Debonair Danny DiPietro (6) - rhinox, fishythefish, Sleepless Assassin, DCLXVI
Macrophage (4) - Voidedmafia, hiplop, Debonair Danny DiPietro, 4nxi3ty
DCLXVI (2) - kortul, macrophage
fishythefish (1) - Magua

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is May 3rd, 6PM PST

[kortul]

DCL: Fishy scumread, Rhinox townread, Macro townread, null on DDD

Hmm, did you finish the reread? This is DCLXVI latest version:

The people I'm leaning town on are rhinox, fishy and macro

Scum, DDD most of the people on his wagon are town I think so I am sheeping them by being on it. not sure about 4nxi3ty either but I can't back that up. Otherwise I have no idea about anyone's alignment despite having read through the thread twice now. Which takes forever with how long it is.

[DCLXVI]

@kortul, I didn't think that magua was quoting me. I thought he was saying me and fishy were scummy. maybe I read that wrong...

[Rhinox]

OK well I've read through the last 10 pages or so, so I guess I'm officially caught up. But I really don't have anything grounbreaking to say right now. DCL and alice now magua are still townreads for me. From the last 10 pages, I'd add SA and fishy to my stronger town reads as well. fishy's posts after he came back seemed town, and SA for the way he was vocal against the macro wagon. I mean scum can say town is town for cred if/when they flip but I just feel like SA genuinely believes his argument.

I think its obvious only at most 1 of DDD or Macro can be scum. Choosing between the 2 I still prefer DDD but its not as strong of a belief as before.

The rest: {Kortal, Hiplop, Voided, 4nx} - so there's at least 2 and maybe 3 scum in this group if both DDD/Macro are town. I don't think any of them are getting lynched today though.

Mainly I just got very frustrated with the game a week ago, and I kinda checked out. I felt like nobody was getting my cases so I started doubting everything. I kinda feel like I'm reading a different game than everyone else at times. I'll try to be better from now on.

[Fishythefish]

Rereading my play, the above looks like a pretty big exaggeration to me. But I suppose the core's not totally wrong - I agree I've changed my mind a fair amount this game, and that I've not had any really firm scumreads I've been happy to push for a long period of time. Why are either of those things scumtells?

Because they're not how you play as town (see: Last Will III). You're not a noncommittal town player, and here you are. See also: Trader Mafia, where scum-you throws your vote around willy-nilly and in general tried to spread mud everywhere. That's what I'm seeing here.

That Trader Mafia comparison is bollocks. I was much more focused and consistent in that game.
- On Day 1, I pushed the VV lynch for the majority of the day (he was lynched).
- On Day 2, I had exactly two scumreads (NS and SK), and pushed both quite hard. NS was lynched.
- On Day 3, there was a guilty on Andrius, and I voted him, and nothing else happened.
- On Day 4, I only ever pushed on Zang (although I ended up quickhammering my scumbuddy... Day 4 was a complete mess, and trying to get a meta on me based on it would be foolish).
So, I pushed all my major scumreads hard, and I had 2 in the 2 days where things were normal. Yeah, that's really like my play here.

As for my town meta - sometimes I get the bit between my teeth, sometimes I don't. LWIII was one of my better games from that point of view - I had some pretty firm reads which I was happy to push. If you can be bothered, check out my meta. I'm pretty sure that (when in a game and active - I've had a few games where I've had crap access that probably aren't relevant) I'm usually more consistent than this as town, and

always

more consistent than this as scum. The feeling of being lost in a game and not being able to settle on any strong scumreads isn't one I've learnt how to fake.

[Magua]

DCL: Fishy scumread, Rhinox townread, Macro townread, null on DDD

Hmm, did you finish the reread?

No, it's D1, as I said. I'm going to try to catch up tonight.

Also need to reread Macrophage. I had missed the 15+ alt game comment.

As for my town meta - sometimes I get the bit between my teeth, sometimes I don't. LWIII was one of my better games from that point of view - I had some pretty firm reads which I was happy to push.

If you can be bothered, check out my meta.

I'm pretty sure that (when in a game and active - I've had a few games where I've had crap access that probably aren't relevant) I'm usually more consistent than this as town, and

always

more consistent than this as scum. The feeling of being lost in a game and not being able to settle on any strong scumreads isn't one I've learnt how to fake.

It's comments like the bolded that get me. Here I present two instances of your meta, and your response is an insinuation that I don't care to check instances of your meta.

Not a "Here's a game where I was crap as town," but "Meh, if you care, go look." That's what gets me about every single one of your posts. It's like actively trying to be as unhelpful as possible while still appearing to be helping.

[Fishythefish]

Really? Where else have I been unhelpful while still appearing to be helping?

I didn't mean to insinuate you didn't check my meta. Clearly you did, to some extent. I'm saying that your meta picture isn't accurate, and you should look deeper if you are going to base a read off it. By "if you can be bothered", I really meant to acknowledge that meta'ing people is a time consuming activity, and I understand if you don't do it.

As for finding you a game where I was crap as town, I'm sure I can find you a similar game if you want me to (actually, I'll go do that now), but I'm not claiming I'm usually this way as town. Really, the more important part of the meta is that this isn't at all my scum game.

[Fishythefish]

Reading all my meta from the last ages turned out to be surprisingly fun.

OK, have some meta. First, town games which to some extent show me having weak scumreads and changing my mind, usually early on.

Town

Open Source Mafia - I was inconsistent in my reads and unable to get into the game (although there was role craziness that may account for that).
Tech Tree Mafia - I replaced in on day 2, and changed my mind a lot for that day. After that, I settled down a bit more.
Elite Scumhunting Unit On day 1 I didn't do very much, and changed my mind quite a lot.
Town Hall Mafia I changed my mind quite a bit D1.
Camn's Temperamental Day 1 I went back on my scumreads repeatedly, in a way that seems similar to here. When people answered me, I changed my mind a lot of the time.

And all my scum games from the first page of my "View your posts" (the same period the above town games are cherry picked from). This is much the more important part for me; I think it's well worth following the links to see how much this is not my scum game. As scum, people think I'm town because I'm scumhunting convincingly.

Scum

Real Time Mafia - I was consistent and focused, leading the mislynches each day.
Trader Mafia - as discussed previously, I went after people and pushed for their lynches (which happened).
NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER - I hopped around a little in a D1 deadline situation. Other than that, I was consistent, had solid opinions, and pushed hard on my scumreads (on townies and scumbuddies).
Open 1084 - I wasn't in this game very long, and there was information which made scumhunting secondary.
Txt Mafia - the one scum game on here I'm not at all proud of. I lurked, could never get into the game, and had no fun at all. I didn't move my reads around a lot - I basically had no reads to move around.
Driving Mafia - consistently went after my reads, pushed hard.

[Fishythefish]

Deadline is in 2 days. DDD should be claiming.

[kortul]

Preview-Edited: Holding off a claim at 4nxiety’s request.

would like to see a post from rhinox before any sort've claiming/hammering happens.

Rhinox already posted, so holding off claim any longer is bad, DDD.

I really don't like today behavior and ignoring certain questions from DCL (still waiting for answers), but two votes ins't a pressure at all. I am back to Macro and content with lynching him, or hammering DDD on deadline if Macro wagon would be stuck.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Macrophage

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

My role name is that of a Secretary; I have a one-shot ability. I'm leaning towards it being better for me to not claim what my ability actually does though I'm sure some people will "hurr durr" at me until I'm forced to claim it anyways.

[Fishythefish]

Oooo, a non-standard role.

UNVOTE:

Because DDD being at L-1 doesn't seem a great idea right now.

I probably want a claim today. Some questions before I decide for sure.

1) Is your role one that would make no sense at all for scum in a one-scumteam game? To give you an idea, I'd count miller, cop, vig, mason among standard roles here, and no others that I can think of.
2) Will you use it tonight (or by halfway through tomorrow's day phase if it's a day action)?
3) Is it confirmable, in that when you've done it we'll know?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

1) Is your role one that would make no sense at all for scum in a one-scumteam game? To give you an idea, I'd count miller, cop, vig, mason among standard roles here, and no others that I can think of.
2) Will you use it tonight (or by halfway through tomorrow's day phase if it's a day action)?
3) Is it confirmable, in that when you've done it we'll know?

1) No, it could be an ability that could be useful to scum as well as town; though I think it would be a bit broken to give to scum.
2) I can use it at any time and I'd want to get it off before I die so that depends on how likely I think scum are to kill me for having a currently undefined power role.
3) It could be confirmable under certain circumstances; in other circumstances it would not be.

[Fishythefish]

Is there any restriction on when you can use your power (as in, "odd days/nights" or "not day one")?

[Fishythefish]

Finally: if you use your role in a confirmable circumstance, and don't say anything about it, would we know something had happened? Would we know you had something to do with it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Is there any restriction on when you can use your power (as in, "odd days/nights" or "not day one")?

No.

Finally: if you use your role in a confirmable circumstance, and don't say anything about it, would we know something had happened? Would we know you had something to do with it?

Mmm, sadly the confirmable and not saying anything about it are mutually exclusive as far as I can think.

If I claim explicitly and X then confirmed.
If I claim explicitly and Y then unconfirmed.
If I do not claim explicitly then it depends on a couple things whether or not it'd even be obvious I acted.

[Fishythefish]

OK. I think I know approximately what is going on with DDD's claim. I don't want to lynch him today, because I suspect he's town. OTOH, I want to see his power used and claimed as soon as possible - preferably by tomorrow, and if possible confirmably/so that it's pretty obvious.

I'm still totally uninterested in lynching Macro - I'd rather DDD. I need to check out DCL more carefully, to see if he's an acceptable alternative. I'll vote him unless I get a townread there.

[Rhinox]

Fishy did you type something wrong in that post? first you say you don't want to lynch DDD then you say you'd rather lynch DDD??

I don't really know what to think about DDD's claim.

I'd be up for lynching voided/4nx but I don't have good reasons why. gut/POE.

[Fishythefish]

Rather DDD than Macro. Both are bad lynches, but Macrotown I'm more sure on.

Oh yeah, I remember. DCL was the one who made the me-LS link, and so is probtown for me. Scum rarely hunt for multiple scum day 1, and probably if they do they connect a townie to a buddy, not two townies. OTOH, I think his push on Macro isn't great, and funky was scummy. Pretty mixed feelings (sorry Magua ), but I think I prefer this lynch to either of the others.

VOTE: DCL

I'd also be up for voided/4n - but I don't really think there's long enough to get it going.

[Rhinox]

DCL was the one who made the me-LS link, and so is probtown for me.

<snip>

VOTE: DCL

??

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DCL was the one who made the me-LS link, and so is probtown for me.

<snip>

VOTE: DCL

??

You snipped out the portions that gave it needed context.

[4nxi3ty]

danny, what is your current read of fishy?