Mini 346: 100 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Patrick]

I think more and more you are scummy... but nobody take notice of me Sad

Ever wondered why?

I voted for eye or mordor after wolfsbane, so what? If he had voted after me, you would still accuse of us being scummy. I voted after him, because I was online after him. And my reasons for voting eye of mordor were far better than any reasons you had to vote for me. I already gave my reasons, and nobody else has said they were no good. He was lurking, and needed to talk.
What were your reasons for voting me, BEFORE I voted eye of mordor?

[Joker]

That would be a good point wolfsbane, except that I unvoted you in #99 after you explained yourself in #88.

In other news, Brutal Assassin's vote on me was right out of the gate for poor reasons and he's still there. Call it OMGUS if you want:

unvote

vote Brutal Assassin

[Rathyr]

mmmm Reading the post: 140 144 147 148 I take advice of Patrick, Wolfsbane and Sprontalic had scummy behaviour. And int the post 180, 181 Rathyr had scummy behavior too.

They maybe be pro-mafia players, I think.

And what is scummy about posts 180 and 181? I voted TEOM because he was lurking and not helping, and then I unvoted him because I saw that while the other votees had one vote apiece, TEOM had four. I thought that if he replied and proved his innocence, he would be safe from me even if the deadline came before I could unvote him. (Which it did) And if he replied (or didn't) and proved to be scummy, he would die without my help.

[wolfsbane]

Let's see who jumps off the BA wagon...

Unvote, vote: Brutal Assassin

[Asperis]

Brutal Assassin won't have an internet connection until Sunday (tomorrow) around midnight EST. I've been in contact with him via phone, and i was reading this thread. I spoke to him about it, and he wanted me to post on his behalf seeing as it is a timelimited game. All he asked me to say was that a current bandwagon on him is taking advantage of his limited posting ability and would appreciate it if it was slowed some. He is sorry that he lost his internet connection, as the computer he was using was finally moved to a new location without internet access.

That is all I am going to post. So any questions you have for him will have to wait until tomorrow, unless you need clarification on what I just wrote.

[Patrick]

Thanks for letting us know I want to say that although I'm not on that wagon, I think it's wrong to say ppl are trying to take advantage of his limited connectivity. He has not been posting like someone with limited connectivity.

[Pink Princess]

Vote Count

mikanoff : 3 (sprontalic, Patrick, Rathyr)
Joker: 2 (Brutal Assassin, wolfsbane)
Brutal Assassin: 2 (Romanus, Joker)
Patrick: 1 (mikanoff)

Not voting: spectrumvoid, lordy

[sprontalic]

I'm fairly convinced that Mikanoff's scum now.

1) He has always accused Patrick of scumminess without good reason. Not only that he also continues to accuse Patrick of this while being completely oblivious to other behaviours that are many times more scummy than what Patrick has done.

2) Guess what? I vote him and then he comes up with 1 vote and 3 other FOS. He votes Patrick probably hoping to set himself up as a stupid townie and look like he's just trying to be consistent. He FOS' Wolfsbane probably because of his prior weak suspicion on him. FOS' Lordy because of a prior arguement (make by Joker, possibly to make himself look like a townie by siding with someone who is yet seen as a suspect.) He also FOS' Rathyr for a reason that is based completely on his unsubstantiated accusation of Patrick.

3) He's always targetted Patrick and no one else before, but when we start pressing him for answers he starts naming a list of people who he NOW thinks might be scum. These (excluding Patrick) are:
Wolfsbane
Lordy
Rathyr
Me

The latter three being just during day 2 where we've had only about 2 pages of posts.

Could it be coincidence that he NOW sees more scum behaviour that he's pressed to look protown? Possibly. But somehow I think not.

4) Your intuition of Patrick disturbs me. Since all protown players yesterday had no information only scum would have intuition about other players. You might not call it intuition but seriously, you can call your points against Patrick true accusations...yet you still continually attack him. To me it looks like an intuitive attack.

[Romanus]

Mod: I think the vote count is wrong. Wolfsbane switched his vote to BA.

This would put a tie on Mikanoff and Brutal Assassin. I could live with a coin flip between the two of them.

To those with some experience. How often have you seen scum partners go at each other in a game. I mean with fire and brimstone. I've seen it before, done by very good players. It has to be done well, but if it is, it can be deadly to the town. More often, especially on day 1, a battle that is heated is between townies, scum don't like the exposure that early, especially since they know they are wrong. Day 2 is different.

All of that is to indicate that both Patrick and Mikanoff appear scummy, but not like scum partners. I'm really not sure what to think of that. Not completely sure why I posted it. I do find it good to think out loud, sometimes, especially for others to see or hear. I just really don't know what the deal is there. I want to be inclined toward the townie vs townie. Anyway, it is the most likely. I still like my vote on BA, if you were looking for me to jump, you crazy, especially without another post by BA. I will not feel the least bit bad if he doesn't get to post again before his death. A claim is really not worth much. There is also no defense for the things he posted, only smoke and mirrors, distractions and misrepresentation. You can't defend it without looking more scummy. Every post by BA only makes me more convinced. I hope he posts again, a lot. It ought to be good.

[Patrick]

All of that is to indicate that both Patrick and Mikanoff appear scummy, but not like scum partners.

You'll need to provide reasons for why I'm scummy.

To your stuff about arguments, I'm not quite sure what you're saying. You say two scum rarely argue on day 1 because they don't want the attention, but that day 2 is different. This implies you think the thing between me and mike is staged, but then you go on to say that you don't think me and mike are scum together. I'm reading in a rush so may be misunderstanding.
If you are saying scum stage arguments on day 2, then your little thing with BA could fall under this category.

[mikanoff]

Yes, we could be scummy, but not like scum partners. And when you see I am not scum, I hope you will lynch Patrick

I think Patrick, Sprontalic, Rathyr, Wolfsbane and Rathyr appear scummy, but one of then is a pro-town player, probably Rathyr, who is a "stupid scummy friend" lol

[Romanus]

I just thought I should let my opinions be known about the Patrick/Mikanoff thing. Especially since Mikanoff is tied for the lead now. Also, you are absolutely right about the the thing with me and BA, except that it really started at the end of day 1. I don't know if you were trying to mislead there or were just careless, I tend to think the latter.

Also I did not imply, but rather said that the argument could be staged. The earlier in the game it is, the less likely it is that 2 mafia are staging an argument. <Interesting that you chose the word 'stage> The later in the game it is, it becomes more likely, but still it does not happen frequently, at least in my experience. Therefore, Day 2 being later than day 1 means that there is a higher chance of a 'staged' fight going on. However, it is much more likely that you two could just be townies going after each other. What I believe is going on is that one of you is scum. The both of you are acting too scummy for me to decide which one.

Hope that clears that up. Feel free to ask further questions.

[mikanoff]

I'll have to get used to die today... but I would like you will lynch the players who voted me when you'll see I am pro-town player....

[Patrick]

Mikanoff is still acting the same as usual. He's either scum or a very bad town player. It is hard for me to decide which.
Now Romanus,you still haven't actually given any reasons as to why you find me scummy. I find it suspicious that you drop these little suggestions about without explaning them.
Mike - I will take some satisfaction in forcing you to eat your words about me after the game.

[mikanoff]

Mike - I will take some satisfaction in forcing you to eat your words about me after the game.

If you really think I'm scummy, you wouldn't say it. You know I am a townie. Even so, you vote me. You're scummy!!!!!

[spectrumvoid]

I believe mikanoff is a lousy scummy person, not a lousy townie. Either way, his tactics don't seem to make much sense. His main defence for himself is: vote for me, and if I die, you'll know I'm not scummy. That's illogical.

@Romanus/Patrick: it is common to have a staged fight on D2. I myself have used it when I was mafia in many games.

Patrick seems defensive, but I think it's logical for a townie to be defensive in this 100MPH game, and he is really close to being lynched.

mikanoff seems to be responding mildly, especially for someone who's tied in the top spot. And, like Sprontalic in #257, people who counter accuse practically everybody else without any reason are usually scummy. And he does seem to be setting Patrick up just to get off the top spot. So for these reasons...

vote: Mikanoff

[Patrick]

Patrick seems defensive, but I think it's logical for a townie to be defensive in this 100MPH game, and he is really close to being lynched.

Eh, man I'm just asking Romanus for reasons as to why he thinks i'm scummy, so far he's just thrown that out without saying why. And how am I 'really close to being lynched?'

[spectrumvoid]

Patrick seems defensive, but I think it's logical for a townie to be defensive in this 100MPH game, and he is really close to being lynched.

mikanoff seems to be responding mildly, especially for someone who's tied in the top spot.

Thanks Patrick for pointing out the error, I meant to say:

1) Patrick seems defensive, but I think it's logical for a townie to be defensive in this 100MPH game.

2) mikanoff seems to be responding mildly, especially for someone who's tied in the top spot. and he is really close to being lynched.

My cut and paste went awry. As for you being defensive, I was referring to D1, when we were debating Patrick + Rathyr as a scum pair. But I did clarify that there was nothing wrong with that in my earlier post.

[Romanus]

Patrick, I am just responding to the arguments that have already been made. I have nothing more to add. I have read the accusations and responses. Don't get excited man. I haven't even Fos'd or anything. I think we are a ways from lynching you, not many, if any votes on you. I'm not advocating we run you up either. I'm just evaluating the whole situation.

Spectrum -- thanks for your input about staged arguments on day 2. This is what I was hoping some others would do. Also, do you think that is what is going on with anybody? I don't mind when someone says they have a gut feeling. As long as they say that is what it is. The only people I find get really nervous about unsubstantiated suspicion are mafia who don't like any light on them. Townies don't maind a couple votes coming their way, because they have nothing to hide.

[Patrick]

The both of you are acting too scummy for me to decide which one.

This is you post, 261. Talking about me and Mike. This is a suspicion on me without reason.

I don't mind when someone says they have a gut feeling. As long as they say that is what it is. The only people I find get really nervous about unsubstantiated suspicion are mafia who don't like any light on them. Townies don't maind a couple votes coming their way, because they have nothing to hide.

I'm sorry but this is garbage. Nobody should accept ppl just saying 'XXX is scummy' for no reason. Neither town or scum players like it. It is exactly what Mike is doing to me; he's saying i'm suspicious without reason, and I don't like it. I don't like the way you are doing it either.
I have no objection to votes coming my way, if they have a reason behind them, which I don't think Mike's has. Definite

FoS Romanus

for that strange post.

[mikanoff]

Patrick, I have gave you my reasons hundreds of times. I don't do it anytime more. You are lucky, the rest of townies believe in you, but the time put every player in his place... Mafia will win this game, I'm sure. And I won't be the culpable of this

[Rathyr]

Yes, we could be scummy, but not like scum partners. And when you see I am not scum, I hope you will lynch Patrick :)

I think Patrick, Sprontalic, Rathyr, Wolfsbane and Rathyr appear scummy, but one of then is a pro-town player, probably Rathyr, who is a "stupid scummy friend" lol

Hey mike, I'm amazed you don't think Joker, Spectrumvoid, Romanus, Brutal Assassin, Lordy, Pink Princess, and Arafax are scum too.

Also, do tell why you felt moved to list me twice.

And Mike, if you do turn out to have been a townie, which I doubt, all of us are just going to dislike you even more for throwing the game around like this and messing with us with your stubbornness, depriving us of the chance to lynch a real scum. It's not my fault, or Patrick's fault, or any one's fault but your own that you will probably be lynched.

Patrick, I have gave you my reasons hundreds of times. I don't do it anytime more. You are lucky, the rest of townies believe in you, but the time put every player in his place... Mafia will win this game, I'm sure. And I won't be the culpable of this

You have not gave[sic] your reasons even once. Quote me an example, if you can.

[Rathyr]

Mod: I think the vote count is wrong. Wolfsbane switched his vote to BA.

This would put a tie on Mikanoff and Brutal Assassin. I could live with a coin flip between the two of them.

To those with some experience. How often have you seen scum partners go at each other in a game. I mean with fire and brimstone. I've seen it before, done by very good players. It has to be done well, but if it is, it can be deadly to the town. More often, especially on day 1, a battle that is heated is between townies, scum don't like the exposure that early, especially since they know they are wrong. Day 2 is different.

All of that is to indicate that both Patrick and Mikanoff appear scummy, but not like scum partners. I'm really not sure what to think of that. Not completely sure why I posted it. I do find it good to think out loud, sometimes, especially for others to see or hear. I just really don't know what the deal is there. I want to be inclined toward the townie vs townie. Anyway, it is the most likely. I still like my vote on BA, if you were looking for me to jump, you crazy, especially without another post by BA. I will not feel the least bit bad if he doesn't get to post again before his death. A claim is really not worth much. There is also no defense for the things he posted, only smoke and mirrors, distractions and misrepresentation. You can't defend it without looking more scummy. Every post by BA only makes me more convinced. I hope he posts again, a lot. It ought to be good.

BA is a fool anyway. No lynch? I can't believe him.

At the moment though, I think my vote belongs with Mr Mikanoff.

[Patrick]

Ok, I might as well do my post of thoughts on all of the players. In no particular order:

Joker - doesn't post a great deal, but hasn't done anything too scummy that I've noticed so far. Bandwagon started on him early this day, seems to have died down and since then he seems to have gone. Probably should post more.

Mike - has basically repeated the same messages the whole game. Keeps referring me back to his prior reasons, which are crappy at best, non existent at worst. He is either mafia or bad pro town, but deciding which is difficult. A possible liability if he is pro town.

Romanus - A tricky one. My gut is telling me to be wary of Romanus. His last few posts have pinged my scumdar. In general he seems quite guarded about what he posts, but I see some small things which are adding up. End of yesterday he was at pains to make it clear that he was wary of the eye of mordor bandwagon. Today he has been involved in this debate with BA which I think its a distraction to the town. He has made a few odd posts about this Mike issue, for instance in his post 237 where he said that he found Mike's comment compelling when in fact it wasn't very good at all. I questioned him about that but don't think I ever got a reply. Now recently he seems to be subtly trying to get things away from Mike, by pointing to BA, and by saying that he finds me and Mike equally scummy (post 261) and that he can't decide between us. This almost seems like he is setting up a false dilemna. He gives no reasons for finding me scummy (which is in fact why we've been looking at mike), and he says that only mafia get jumpy when someone throws an unsubstanciated accusation at them. If we lynch mike and he is scum, I'll definitely want to look at Romanus tomorrow if i'm still around. If we lynch mike and he is town, I'm still not at ease with Romanus.

Rathyr - another difficult one. Has buddied up with me a bit, which I've already explained can be suspicious. I'm still trying to decide whether I think his defence of me is genuine or not. It's true that mike's posts have recently been taking the cake so maybe Rath is just getting annoyed at him.

Sprontanic - attracted some early suspicion, but for now I think that his no lynch idea is just his opinion and not an attempt to confuse the town.

Spectrumvoid - hasn't really caught my attention. Nothing much to indicate his alignment either way.

Wolfsbane - much the same as above. He seems slightly bandwagon happy though.

lordy - i'm not over keen on him in this game. He hasn't posted alot and has reacted overaggressively at times. His main posts today have been promising a reread. I hope he gets round to that soon.

Brutal Assassin - has been away past day or two. Seemed ok day 1 despite a pretty quick change of opinion. This day 2 I think his debate with Romanus is something of a distraction. They could be collabarating in this together but I doubt it. Awaiting his next post.

[mikanoff]

Keeps referring me back to his prior reasons, which are crappy at best, non existent at worst.

No, I don't want do it