Newbie 1252: The Other Game Town Wins!

[TheHossaim]

Do I really have to go through you're posts and pick out witch ones are anit-town or scummy?

God this people ask a lot.

VOTE: RoboCopter87

^This was anti town. Selfvoting does not help get discussion going ( the purpose of the RVS), and brings unnecessary attention to yourself.

A wild Thor appeared!



BRING IT.

(Also, Majiffy is so totally definitely having the IC jitters. His post was non-indicative because you could tell it was pure IC info. )

Though actually Post 32 is why Hoss is obv. town.

We're out of RVS now, everyone can sheep me.

I ALREADY AM SHEEPING YOU. Seriously, you aren't even in thread and I'm voting the person you want me to vote.

Seriously if you didn't have a title I'd vote for you to be The Shepard.

@Fujiko: So what is it? Was my self vote scummy or not?

Fuji - votes are one of the most powerful assets a townie has. Don't be afraid to use them, even in the early game.

/nod

Was it scummy? I'm not sold it was, actually. But I want to see what happens if...

Vote: RoboCopter87

I don't insta-die, you need to get 2 more people to vote me to kill me.

This felt like you were trolling and being a bit of an sarcastic asshole. Anti town.
quote="In post 74, Robocopter87"]

Please do, before someone decides to speedlynch Robo.

No. We want that to happen.

RXK? Not much to go off of, but Post #60 is definitely interesting. However I can definitely create scenarios in my head that he does the same thing as either alignment.

Not that much. I'm still impressed at Robo's ability to not give a f*ck about the votes of others over him. However, his gambit is basically useless now as it was already pointed out as that: a gambit (and a gambit needs to keep occult in order to work). I still think he's not scum, however.

So, Thor is qualified as experienced? Sorry, I still need some time to grow accustomed to this site's nomenclatures. Also, his reasoning about Hoss being townie seems consistant.

And yeah, we need actions from zabriel and Iknal. I considered myself inactive but those two together have posted less than me.

If I'm town then why would votes bother me? If I'm scum only votes would bother me. However what if I'm scum posing as town by doing things scum wouldn't do? This is WIFOM. (IC can elaborate on that)

Thor is not your IC, yes he is qualified and very good at it. I'm qualified and don't do it because I am not very good at it. This is Majiffy's game to do it though. He will. If you need help, ask Majiffy, if Majiffy leaves for quite sometime then me or Thor or Iknal will be around.

Not that much. I'm still impressed at Robo's ability to not give a S*rf about the votes of others over him.

Pssh - we haven't even remotely got tat fire burning yet. You should vote him and see if he stays cool as a cucumber.

Could work. I will give it some thoughts

Also, [Thor's] reasoning about Hoss being townie seems consistant.

Consistent with what?

Probably badly worded from me. I was trying to say that reasoning didn't look flawed to me.

And yeah, we need actions from zabriel and Iknal. I considered myself inactive but those two together have posted less than me.

Do you find that scummy of them?
Do you find anything scummy yet?

zabriel hasn't posted anything and that can't be qualified in any way. Iknal could be lurking, however, as he has effectively posted but not really contributed. That could be considered scum activity. I will wait for his next post, assuming it happens anytime soon.

Please do, before someone decides to speedlynch Robo.

That would bother you? He's even voting himself, so he agrees with the case on him as well.

As I was saying before, I still think Robo is townie. However, yeah, he doesn't seem to care about his own life. I won't vote him yet, but once again, I could end up giving that a try.

Please never do that again. Don't write inside quotes. Just quote and respond, please. Its more of a ease of reading your posts. I didn't even realize what you had done until I looked closer at it.[/quote]

So you wanted to be speedlynched? Way to send clear messages. Anti town.

So you are saying that the fact that I was willing to retain my vote on myself in the effort to get myself killed means I'm scum? That I only unvoted once it became apparent I would not be killed?

I understand that what I did appears to have no town motivation, but does it have any scum motivation?

I also understand that I appeared to be quite worthless and thus was a suitable policy lynch. However, do you think that I still am useless?

@ Thor: What I'm saying is, why do you believe me to be scum?

Saying having no town intention doesn't mean you have a scum intention so you can continue to do absolutely nothing useful for the town.

Look at the attention it drew. He's been here since 2009, and played a plethora of games. I'm sure as scum he would know it's a bad idea.

Actually no, this is quite wrong.

Regardless of alignment,
Do you notice the amount of newbies believing I'm null-town? They know I acted stupid. Man, if I was scum I would be in a perfect spot because only Thor believes me to have scummy motivations from that selfvote. He'd be my only real threat. However, I had no idea how the self vote would pay off, thus I don't think that this would be valid reason to vote me.

Who knows, maybe I just pulled an awesome scum move without knowing it.
Or maybe I just pulled a stupid town move.

Making sure it dosen't look like you're jumping onto the IC. Clever scum move.

Umm, can you tell me where I was like, "Woe is me?" Because frankly, regardless of alignment, that never happened.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4134539
I need to keep my vote on myself, as town, for the good of the town, because of the state of the wagon...think well of me!

BullSmurf. What was that gak?

I genuinely believed that I was doing something that would result in a nice outcome for the town. Thats what that gak was.

Sprang onto other wagons? Pfft. I voted Hossaim, gave reasons, and I was the first person on him. I did not jump on an easy wagon. I created one on a scummy player.

Eh, you claimed to want to vote RXK and voted Hoss due to pressure from Nham.

No. I said I didn't really mind if he was lynched. I said I had seen the evidence and that someone hammering him would be justified.

Hoss was the scummier of the two. Due to pressure from nham? That is questionable and unprovable. I don't think that nham pressuring me made that much of a difference. It was a more of a "get off your smurf and do something."

Again, you thought I was useless because I was trying to force my own lynch. You wanted me to be lynched due to this uselessness. BUT then I unvoted and I believe I've actually contributed to the game. Am I currently useless?

If town - yes.
If scum - no.

More explanation.

Kill it with fire.

No, we kill stuff with ropes. Jeez. Get it right, beardy.

Robo I want reads (and subsequent references to posts to support those reads) on every player of the game in your next post.

Robo, I want reads. Robo, I want explanations. Robo, order the pizza. Robo, take out the trash. Robo, wear some pants.

I'll have you know that you'll only get half of what you want. Giving a full set of reads with total evidence gives scum stuff to coast on. Which i will not do. I will give you my reads though.

Pfft.

Here.

194 - Null-Town
Fujiko - Null-Town
Thor665 - Null
nhammen - Town
RXK - Null
TheHossaim - Scum
Iknal - Null
Robo - Sexy
Majiffy - Town

As you can see I'm missing a scumread. That scum read was RXK, but hes looking better now. Still a few problems but he sifted into null range for me. I'll get a new partner for Hoss.

Finally

, after he was asked to do so he gave some scumhunting, after being lazy the whole game. But, thinking he needed 2 scumreads on D1 made it seem like he was trying to hard, and in general this looks a little forced.

Wow. Look.

There is this thing.

Its called explanation.

You use it when you say something to enforce what you said.

You just said, "The selfvote was a definitive slip in my opinion."
You also said, "This seems to me like fake scumhunting"

Use Explanation.

Asking for explanation after I gave a clear explanation.

wut?

I clearly presented a case on Hossaim. I showed my reads on other players. Because I didn't go super in depth doesn't make me scum or a dolt. (Whatever that means.)

Scumhunting implies more than one scum read, thanks.

You're a dolt for other reasons.

No it doesn't. Scumhunting is the process of finding scum. There isn't anything regarding the amount you are attempting to catch at once. The actual possibility of me nailing both scum on Day One is ridiculous(Though I have done it. However it was total luck.)

You can just stop saying I'm a dolt now.

This is me ending a conversation with a brick wall, is what it is.

No its not, its you not knowing how to respond and reverting to being a total jerk.

Nice deflection? You realize votes can be used for more than just lynching, right?

Well obviously, but if you are voting someone, it means you think they are scum. Regardless of how you are using it, you are furthering a player to their death. I mean, there are rare cases where you would need to vote somebody you didn't think was scum but definitely not in a Newbie game.

I just can't wrap my mind around how bad you are after 2+ games. (Side note: and with over 20, talk about terribad)

You haven't even described how I am bad.
You have started to just use the same argument over and over.
That argument being, "You are a dolt".

No, I'm not responding to your arguments because you

are

a dolt. There's a fine line, you should get some reading comprehension.

And now you are going to refuse to respond to my arguments.
And you are calling me the VI.

Swearing =/= being upset. I rather enjoy the aesthetics of several cusswords.

You want to vote me because I disagree with you? Typical terribad VI behavior.

Where the hell did everyone else go in this game?

So you are doing all this conversation with a clear head? Then you got your gift, I found my second scumread.

No, I want to vote you because you went from a logical, townie motivated player to an irrational uncooperative jerk. Which is very anti town.

And now you are asking where everybody went. Whats the matter? Can't handle this conversation?

He is arguing over the stupidest things and making really retarded points (If you vote someone you think they are mafia? Votes serve purposes other than pointing out maf)

Scumhunting also includes removing town-like players from the list of possible scumspects. You're giving me dumb answers, and you're either a dolt or you're intentionally giving me dumb answers. So which is it; are you being intentionally obtuse and anti-town, or are you a dolt?

Well no duh, but you are wrong in the fact that it has to be townlike players. I have multiple nulls that are leaning town. If I think they are null, I think they aren't really scummy and probably not scum. But they haven't done anything to prove they are town.

There is nothing wrong my reads.

Way to give me a question that can only be answered with me in the wrong.

The rest of your post is just pictures that don't even describe how I am wrong. You have run out of things to say to me. Are you doing this to provoke me or are you just out of arguments? If it s the first then its starting to work, if its the second then just stop digging a frikkin hole.

I'm getting tired of this Majiffy crap.

He hasn't even explained why I am a dolt/VI/dumbf***. He is just saying it over and over. Honestly I wouldn't care about tunneling if it wasn't such a huge personal attack. It makes me want to replace out.

That is not even what happend. He posted pictures because they described you're idocy of the above quote better than words ever could.

It's possible that 194 is bussing Robo, a common tactic as far as I know. But I doubt it. I don't really see the case vs.194. I think Robo is a better lynch today.

I'm a little uncomfortable being at L-1, so if those voting me could give me some reasons or ask for a claim or something feel free.

You have got to be kidding me.

I want this lynch to happen. So bad. He is "uncomfortable" being at L-1. He thinks 194 is bussing me. Just wow.

Claim if you want. I doubt it'll do much.

No fucking shit im uncomfortable at being L-1. I know im town and I think there is a better lynch

Why?

Nowhere in there do I see why being 20% scum is too much. Heck, in that paragraph you say I'm 90% town. You later changed it to 80.

I don't see it.

Here you are playing dumb, stalling, and fighting over a tiny fucking technicality.


Happy?

[TheHossaim]

[doublepost cleared by request]

[Majiffy]

Do I really have to go through you're posts and pick out witch ones are anit-town or scummy?

God this people ask a lot.

It's called making a case.

Also, in the future, try just doing links if you're going to post a thousand quotes. This is going to be a cunt to read.

Read it all. That case sucked.

[Thor665]

Lol. I know how to vote. You actually base part of your accusation over me on "he bandwagoned RXK and then jumped out of the wagon". As far as I know, I need to have a vote in order to bandwagon.

Gonna spoiler these for appropriate lulz;

Here is an attack I made on 194 about actions done and attacking her defense.

Spoiler: Easily missed post with no points that need to be responded to

Robo is town for pretty much Smurfing obvious reasons.

Then stop debating over nothing with him - one of you needs to take the high road before this game nosedives into even more back and forth I won't read.

Also, your defense of my attacks on 194's "town" posts is to say 194 seems busy...is that even a defense? That might explain the lurk, but I never even called the lurk scummy so...does not answer my accusations for me.

OK, given the fact that I seem to be the theme now, I think it's my time to defend myself.

I agree, you've been soft defending yourself most of the game, let's get it in the open already.

First, yes, I have been inactive. However, that doesn't make me a lurker

Actually - yes, yes it does.

as far as I know. I already defined lurking and I think I do not qualify there.

You defined 'active' lurking, which is a different thing, and which you are not doing. Still, your quick response to my attack and your over-sensitivity about the lurking word even when I didn't call it scummy by itself just goes to show that, yes, you are lurking, and that you are worried of having that term stick to you.

Second, my strong opinion about Robo has been there since... forever? At most, this would make me his buddy if he was scum. But I would have to be stupid in order to buddy with my "suspicious" Mafia buddy in DAY 1, especially if he was L-1 during an important part of the day. In fact, if we were buddies, he would have already tried to throw suspicions ON me, becuase my buddying attitude would screw us, and also, throwing suspicions over me and then me resulting as scum would be an extremely efficient ways to throw most suspicions off him, givimg him time. He hasn't.

Okay, I don't actually care that you have longevity of your odd read - I never said that was an issue.
Second, I actually suspect the more likely pairing is 194scum and Robotown.
Third, Thank you for letting me know you'd distance from a buddy - so...RXK then? It might explain your odd vote pattern there.

Here is an off-hand joke comment made to Robo.

Spoiler: Deep case that requires IMMEDIATE response...via a lame joke.

And 194 hasn't figured out how to vote yet anyway, so how can that lurksack be bussing anything?

The pro-town mindset is to ignore the 1st and reply to the second with a joke remark that is active lurking at its finest?
Why isn't she dead yet?
@Majiffy - please justify this again with your gut, maybe you should add a consult with your epiglottis or something?

1. Why shouldn't he be "uncomfortable"?
2. He doesn't think 194 is bussing you, he seems to think 194 is town, or at least that the case is bad, so...?

1. Because if hes town then his death shouldn't be that big of a deal. His last posts should be geared towards reads. But unfortunately, its common newbies to want the person who pushed your lynch the most to die after you do.
2. What? What are you asking me?

1. How many games of town, newb and experienced, being unhappy with their lynch do I need to link you to in order to prove this as one of the worst (yet constantly repeated) tells on mafiascum?
2. I'm asking you where Hoss claimed 194 was bussing you? I can show you where he called 194 town (or at least not scum) so I'd be fascinated to see this.

I also can summarize the entire back and forth between Hoss and Robo;

Robo - I will be oddly pedantic!
Hoss - i will bleed newb awkwardness!
Robo - I will act like that bleeding is a scumtell!
Hoss - I will type the equivilent of putting my fingers in my ears and going 'nyah-nyah, can't hear you!'
Robo - I will return to pedantry and not even begin to pretend to understand the very reasonable case and accusation you've presented because it's worded awkwardly.
Hoss - I will refuse to point out things I find you did that were scummy, that might at least end this horrible back and forth and spare Thor's soul.

If either of you are town, you owe everyone an apology for this. I'm about ready to call 194 obv. town and you guys a badly distancing scum team just to end my headache. Stop this gak.

@Robo - why so pedantic? Please explain that? You SERIOUSLY don't understand what he's saying? You SERIOUSLY think he's scum because he went from a 90/10 to an 80/20 call?

@Hoss - Please just provide a couple of examples of what you think Robo has done that is scummy. I could give two figs about the numbers, just point and stuff you think is scummy and say in a few words why that is.

[Thor665]

Huh, I missed the new page.

@Hoss - thank you for the pro town act and pre-emptively doing my request.

@Majiffy - I haven't read it, and yeah, it probably does suck (any case that long always does) but...what's your read on Hoss now that he did that and what's your take on Robo being so pedantic about the accusation?

[Robocopter87]

Wow. Umm... Not only did you double post that. But you screwed up tags.

Holy Frick.

PEDIT: It's not that I don't understand him. Its that I want him to support it using quotes. He said I did a crap ton of stuff, but he never showed where I did it.

And now this case thing is going to be ridiculous to read.

[Thor665]

Wow. Umm... Not only did you double post that. But you screwed up tags.

Holy Frick.

Ah, yes, double posts and screwed up tags - SCUMTASTIC...wait...wait...whut?

PEDIT: It's not that I don't understand him. Its that I want him to support it using quotes. He said I did a crap ton of stuff, but he never showed where I did it.

And now this case thing is going to be ridiculous to read.

Read it then, and come back with a better reply to it then the above, because the above is nothing besides being rude, really. You got your reaction if you were reaction trolling (and, much like your self-vote, I am anxious to see ANYTHING come of it).

[Robocopter87]

I never said screwing up the tags and double posting was scummy. I was just saying its really hard to read. I skimmed it. I'll go in-depth tomorrow.

[Thor665]

It was a spam post Robo, you and his exchange could easily have been half the length.
Now, if you were *trying* to rile him up it makes sense...except I'm not sure why you'd still be doing so after getting what you wanted and reading it.
And if you were saying it simply because you had become riled up...well, step back and breath a few times and ask yourself if this is a scumvestigation or an attempt to lynch someone out of personal pique.
If you're scum - keep playing as is.

[Majiffy]

what's your read on Hoss now that he did that and what's your take on Robo being so pedantic about the accusation?

Bad case doesn't change a scum read. Hoss is still scum.
Robo being pedantic is just typical dolt being dolt. He's still town IMO.

And as far as 194 is concerned, he's staying town until I get heartburn and my gut is effectively cut from the equation.

[Thor665]

You seem aggressively immutable - whassup?

[Majiffy]

I just think you're wrong, and I haven't seen any real reasons for my reads to change.

[Thor665]

You look at all the interplay between Robo and Hoss just now and have nothing new to even mull upon?
You look at 194's dodge of me and don't even want to encourage her to at least respond to me or something, so I'll learn how town she is?
Nothing?

[Majiffy]

Robo and Hoss are acting exactly as they would given my reads.
194's "dodge" was probably less intentional than you prescribe it to be; I had just quoted that bit about not knowing how to vote in the post directly prior. 194 probably came on, saw that, and posted.

As for your "case that needed responding to", these are the only things I can discern were really brought up;

You defined 'active' lurking, which is a different thing, and which you are not doing. Still, your quick response to my attack and your over-sensitivity about the lurking word even when I didn't call it scummy by itself just goes to show that, yes, you are lurking, and that you are worried of having that term stick to you.

Second, I actually suspect the more likely pairing is 194scum and Robotown.
Third, Thank you for letting me know you'd distance from a buddy - so...RXK then? It might explain your odd vote pattern there.

The first, yes, could use a response. The second... ok?

I'm really not seeing your case whatsoever.

[Thor665]

I understand that you don't see my case, because you're trying to be think headed about it, even though my case is most assuredly up there.

However, what I'm asking is if you saw the attack in that post and have an opinion about why the attack wasn't responded to. I never said I asked her a bunch of questions, but that doesn't mean that the attack should not be responded to. I systimatically assaulted her on a couple of fronts and called multiple things she was doing scummy and explained why. Her response (n your mind) was not to read the thread, or to act kinda goldfish like, and only really respond to things you quoted.

Even on her response to things you quoted - do you see any meat there, or do you agree it can be taken as an active lurk style post?

[RXK]

Picking up prod, will post when I get back from jiu-jitsu class.

[194]

First of it all, I'm a he. Why did you assume I was a she?
Second, excepting my previous posts (where I made all my points), I haven't felt particularly needed for defense. In fact, how Maffijy has been supporting me is a bit uncomfortable.
Finally, I have classes to attend now. I will be more active during this afternoon.

[nhammen]

In fact, how Maffijy has been supporting me is a bit uncomfortable.

This seems to come from a pr-town viewpoint.
UNVOTE: 194

[nhammen]

EDIT: pro-town

[Thor665]

Yeah, I'm not sure I disagree with that call nhammen...but why no new vote?

[RXK]

Alright, I'm back. Remember when nu metal was still a thing? I found a bunch of CDs from like 2003, my taste in music was awful.

I wonder if I'm going to look back at myself today and think what I listen to now is garbage.

I'm gonna go 4 pages back to pg 10, because I don't even remember the last time I posted, so I'm going to just start at post #227 and go on whatever sticks out to me.

You are willing to lynch town?

D1 with a useless SE when I'm likely to be NK'ed? Yes.

From a town perspective: this makes no sense.

No one right now is confirmed town (well, except me ), but let's say both you and Robocopter are both town and that mafia have decided to NK you after you have lynched Robocopter for playing stupidly.

Robocopter flips town: Town is now -1 player.
You get NKed and flip town: Town is now -2 players and go into day two with 5 players left.

If you think a guy is town, don't even entertain the thought of lynching him for poor play. Ignore him, consider him a wasted slot. Make fun of him for all I care, but willingly lynching him to put the town at a numerical disadvantage this early, or at any point in the game, is pretty much as anti-town as any VI can possibly be.

Click the link, read the post, and memorize why he's scum; no stance taken, jumps on an easy wagon.

no stance taken, jumps on an easy wagon.

jumps on an easy wagon.

That'll do 'er.

VOTE: RXK

VOTE: Hossaim
Let's see where this takes us.

hello officer this is dog i have contradiction on line 2


Most of the rest of that page was Robo and Majiffy slinging shit at each other. I'm going to make a new post for the rest of catching up.

[RXK]

my reads:
-robocopter: town that is relatively useless but still town
-RXK: LITERALLY THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE
-Rach: null
-194: null, though after rereading I am

not

too fond of his (lack of) play. either newbie town afraid to get into things or lurkscum. regardless of who we lynch today, we need to talk about

kevin

194.
-nhammen: leaning town. Sorry for OMGUSing you early game.
-Fujiko: null. Won't really know either way until she starts posting.
-Thor: town.
-Hossaim: Still sure he's scum. However, see below:
-Majiffy: unsure. However, see below:

-If Hossaim flips town, I'm retarded.
-And Majiffy's probably scum.
-If Hossaim flips scum, I'm significantly less retarded.
-And Majiffy's town.

@everyone not voting hossaim please explain why you feel 194/robo/whoever is more likely to be mafia than hossaim because we have 10 days to make some sort of final decision

I have a town read on Hoss for the inner thoughts he was willing to show with no prompting, if felt quite genuine. - why is he scum again?

gooby pls

@194: please contribute more or i will figuratively poop on you. and i assume you are not into conceptual-coprophagia.

[194]

Hmm, concept-coprophagia... interesting. But I will avoid it by now. You know, you should get me some drinks first.

Anyhow, I an growing suspicious on Iknal/Rach. Iknal wasn't active during his short-lived presence in this game. And now, Rach, his replacement, is even less active (she hasn't even POSTED since her confirmation in game). I would like to think this is a coincidence... but the likelihood seems low.

VOTE: RachMarie

I didn't vote Maffijy because I considered this issue more relevant and it hadn't been brought up by anyone. In fact, I was surprised after I noticed than Thor, who has been over my lurking during these last days, hadn't say a word about Iknal/RachMarie flamboyant lurking.

[Thor665]

Iknal replaced out, and therefore his lurk was honest.
Rach hasn't been back, and currently looks to be replacing out, so her lurk was honest too.
You continue to attack lurkers while trying to claim you're not a lurker or (at least) somehow a less suspect lurker - which is why you are therefore a more suspect lurker.
Your post, again ignoring my attacks on you, while trying to backhand slap away my argument by straw manning the heck out of it is substantially less townish than your last post.

Why do you think a lurksack slot (which you're practically one yourself) is likely to be scum, since you're town and are doing the same gak?

[194]

I acknowledge that my first posts and my overall activity (more precisely, the lack of activity) is scum-like behavior. I would have to be stupid to deny it (and worst of it all, I DID before, which probably set your suspicions higher over me). I won't anymore.

Ignoring your attacks on me? Pretty much you got me out of inactivity. If I were ignoring you, I would keep lurking.
And finally, you did accuse me of not using my vote. And now you accuse me because I used it.