Mini 352- Saints and Sinners Mafia - Abandoned

[ibaesha]

I vote for who I currently think is most suspicious and probable scum. Not whoever is looking like they're going to get lynched.

Different mindsets indeed.

[Yosarian2]

And the 4 people that jumped onto Yellow's wagon aren't guilty of this same infraction?

Not in the same way, no.

[Pie_is_good]

I vote for who I currently think is most suspicious and probable scum. Not whoever is looking like they're going to get lynched.

Different mindsets indeed.

I think everyone else votes wherever their vote is

most likely to end up getting scum lynched

. There's a big difference between that and your mindset.

Staying on a dead bandwagon is perceived as noncommital.

Speaking of which, I forgot to

Unvote

.

[ibaesha]

I'm committed to my belief that Kelly is scum. But you and Yosarian are not far behind her.

[Yosarian2]

I'm committed to my belief that Kelly is scum.

Ok. Why?

I don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other about Kelly right now. She's done a few things I don't entirley understand.

But you and Yosarian are not far behind her.

You find me suspicious because...why? Because I'm not voting for Kelly at the moment? Because some other people followed my logic on the yellowbounder bandwagon and because I'm not going to attack them for agreeing with me, as I would like to think I'm making sense?

[ibaesha]

I've already stated why. Everyone can ignore it or brush it off if they like, but I'm not going to. Kelly behaved strangely. Yes, it could've been dismissed as a joke at first, but she continued on that course. She's even gone on to say it was a joke, but then not really a joke, which is the sort of backtracking that shouldn't be ignored. I think people are WIFOMing themselves out of believing she's scum for it, which is exactly what I stated earlier. She stood on the sidelines of the toki wagon, pushing it, but not committing to it herself. Then she turned around and hopped onto the next big wagon that came along and hasn't contributed much of anything otherwise.

Yos: I do find you suspicious, if not hypocritical, for your recent behavior. You are attacking Yellow on the basis of his reasoning not being original enough and parrotting others yet you are ignoring those who did the same thing in regards to the Yellow wagon. Yes, it's nice when people agree with you, but that doesn't mean they're not scum. If one scumtell is sufficient to use for your vote, certainly the same scumtell shouldn't be dismissed when applied to others. Yet you are.

My perspective here is that Yellow is a fairly inexperienced player who has been run up by 5 (very) experienced players based on ONE reason. And that one reason is a 'scumtell' that four of those experienced players are essentially guilty of themselves. I find the wagon to be weakly founded at best and opportunistic and possibly scum-propelled at worst.

Also, while all this is going on, mikanoff and Patrick are sitting off to the sidelines not bothering to do a thing. That is noted as well.

[Patrick]

Apologies. I really don't know what i've been playing at. I've been posting actively in my other games and somehow whenever I get to this one I just procrastinate and decide that i'll read it over next day or whatever.

I think there is some oppotunistic behaviour going on with this yellowbounder wagon. What is hard to tell is which of his voters are scum taking this oppotunity and which aren't. I think Yos was following a valid enough lead, and can hardly be blamed for what followed.

First we have Yos. His reasoning was pretty sound I thought, but I don't think the evidence he gave against yellowbounder was so damning that 5 votes were needed. If yellowbounder is a new player then I can easily see why he might make that post in the way he did. Even as town.

We then have MOS and Bacde jumping on the bandwagon while offering no original reasoning. In my book crappy reasoning (what yellowbounder used to vote kelly) is hardly worse than no reasoning. So the pair of them are no better than yellowbounder at this point. Worse in fact because they're experienced.

The 4th vote by Alk seemed excessive. Kelly's 5th vote was definitely excessive, though i suppose I can see why she would want to advance a bandwagon that is rivalling hers.

I don't lik pie is good much in this game either.

Pie post 147

Anyways, I think the Kelly wagon was dumb, and most people jumping on were just shooting at the easy targets.

I think yellowbounder is by far an easier target than Kelly.

Anyways, the only reason I'm not voting the Bounder is to give him a little breathing room for the claim. Waiting on that.

Not liking this too much either. You may not be voting for yellowbounder but you're furthering the wagon if you're asking for a claim. I don't think yellowbounders one or two bad posts are enough of a case for him to claim. It would be good to hear from him again on this issue.

I can't decide which bandwagoner to vote for. I think the worst two in this case were Mos and Bacde, with pie not looking good either. I'll pick one and

vote: MoS

[Kelly Chen]

She's even gone on to say it was a joke, but then not really a joke, which is the sort of backtracking that shouldn't be ignored.

I didn't say it wasn't really a joke.

I think people are WIFOMing themselves out of believing she's scum for it, which is exactly what I stated earlier. She stood on the sidelines of the toki wagon, pushing it, but not committing to it herself. Then she turned around and hopped onto the next big wagon that came along and hasn't contributed much of anything otherwise.

I think I've contributed about as much as anyone else.

It strikes me that you're putting a lot of effort into making me sound as bad as possible.

[ibaesha]

My bad. First it was a joke, then it was a trap.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: You are attacking Yellow on the basis of his reasoning not being original enough and parrotting others yet you are ignoring those who did the same thing in regards to the Yellow wagon.

That's not at all why I'm attacking yellow.

There's nothing wrong with agreeing with someone else. If no one did that, then we'd never get anywhere. The scummy thing about yellow's post was how he parroted a bunch of lines he had gotten from other people's posts but never really went anywhere with them, and didn't really make any sense; he presented it as if it was his own reasoning, but it seemed more like an excuse put together in such a way as to sound like what everyone else was saying without actually making any real sense.

If someone said "Ok, you're making sense, vote kelly", or "Oh, I see what you mean, that is hypocritical, vote Yosarian" would you really attack them for that? I highly doubt it.

[ibaesha]

Perhaps. Except if I saw 4-5 people doing it, I'd start to get suspicious about it. You aren't at all? Seriously?

[Pope Pius IX]

VOTE COUNT

5-yellowbouner (Yosarian2, Mastermind of Sin, Bacde, al_kohaulec, Kelly Chen)
4-Kelly Chen (Ibaesha, mikanoff, nonny, yellowbounder)
1-Mastermind of Sin (Patrick)



Not voting: tokiyoh, Pie_is_good

With 12 alive, it still takes 7 to lynch!

[mikanoff]

Hi.

Sorry, I am not posted because I have been out 3 days.

About Kelly, i will keep my vote on her. I have already explained my reasons. I agree with Ibaesha said about Kelly in the post #155.

As Patrick, I don't like Pie_is_good playstyle. He don't contribute much to the game. Maybe, he want to go unnoticed because he's scummy...

About yellow's bandwagon, I think there're at least one mafia among the people vote him. I will be oberved each one, because this bandwagon seem me absurd.

[Patrick]

Yos it is strange that you're defending the ppl who jumped on. If Yellowbounder is a newb then bandwagoning behaviour is more understandable from him then it is from 4 experienced players. 5 even if you count pie who is pushing for a claim.

I'm not saying we should completely ignore yellowbounder but I get the feeling there are some double standards going on here.

Quick question yes or no. When the votes on yellowbounder racked up quickly, did the thought enter your mind that possibly this was too quick? I'm interested.

[Yosarian2]

Quick question yes or no. When the votes on yellowbounder racked up quickly, did the thought enter your mind that possibly this was too quick? I'm interested.

(shrug) Not for the most part; it really dosn't and shouldn't require more then one half-decent scumtell to bandwagon on day one. I was wondering about Kelly's 5th vote, as it seemed a bit OMGUSy and overly agressive (with the way she made a big deal about how it was "LYNCH -2" and all that), and I was thinking that if yellow did turn out to be town I might take a closer look at Kelly tommorow. However, there wasn't anything I was interested in persuing until yellow either got lynched or convinced me he wasn't a good lynch.

[Kelly Chen]

I don't think it matters how quick if it's just for pressure. If he'd been lynched by now, then yeah, that was way too quick.

[Bacde]

Unvote

[Kelly Chen]

I'm pretty ok with yellowbounder's response actually.

unvote, vote: ibaesha

[Patrick]

I don't like that much. Which part of his response suddenly convinced you?

It looks like you tried to further yellowbounders bandwagon, and now when some ppl said they thought the wagon was oppotunistic, you're quickly trying to start a new one instead. I'm sure you think there are a few ppl here who would be happy to vote for Ibby.

Vote: Kelly Chen

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I agree. Kelly, could you clarify that last post?

[Kelly Chen]

Er... I thought Patrick's #156 was yellowbounder.

Scratch that last post. I'll keep the ibaesha vote however.

Patrick, I really doubt anyone else wants to vote ibaesha at the moment.

[al_kohaulec]

I'm pretty ok with yellowbounder's response actually.

unvote, vote: ibaesha

I was gonna wonder what post, because I haven't seen any yet, but I see it was just a mistake.

But do you have any special reason for the vote on Iba?

[ibaesha]

It's probably because I want her lynched.

[tokiyoh]

Back from my weekend trip. Since there's no PM or in-thread statements about me being replaced, i assume i'm still in the game? If that's the case, my sincere apologies! Thank you all!

I've read through everything that's posted after i was gone. The further i read on the more Yos's play is resembling that when he's scum. This doesn't have much to do with letting Kelly off the hook any more; it is the way Yos was stretching how Yellow was so suspicious in his follow-up posts. Yellow's mafiascum rank is townsperson. Which essentially means he's new - at least new to the site. I can't say that i know Yos's plays very well, but locating one easy target and aggressively but reasonably and firmly push to the lynch is typical scum Yos to me. It works so well because he is a great artist at choosing his words and convincing people. In this case, i agree that 128 the wagon starter was reasonable. However, personally i think 146 is overly stretching it. It is like chewing on the end of a tiny piece of straw and trying to make something big out of it. This is completely taking advantage of inexperienced player.

I will hopefully re-state and explain my suspicions/points in question in details tomorrow, since i'm currently exhausted from my trip. And again thanks for keeping me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hmm, I appear to have stacked up about five votes between this post and my last post. Now I now I don't post particularly often, but this seems to be honestly slightly quickly for my liking.

Okay, there was some critism of my last post. Fair enough, but the reasons I gave were ones that I had observed myself. Besides, does this warrant lynching me because I made a post?

How about I explain my post this time, because I did not just throw together the arugments, I looked at Kelly, and found suspisious things.

This post was in part a reply to a previous post.

I'm getting a protown vibe from Kelly today. I don't really see how she's acting that strange, but maybe I just missed it.

I then looked back at the thread, and observed that, Kelly is acting beyond normal towards tokiyoh, like they have some sort of running joke, or something along that lines. She has comfirmed that she was both serious and joking about the fake role claims, which are strange enough, and this is adding to the "insider joke impression" I'm getting from Kelly.

She has supported the idea of using a double lynch every single day, which suggests to me, I don't know about anyone else, that she doesn't mind excess townie death. Besides, she is playing strange, and just because it is day 1, it doesn't give you an excuse to muck about, which is the impression I got from one of her posts.

I personally think that the strange things about Kelly is her acting towards tokiyoh, I still don't understand about the fake role claims, she actually supported the idea of using a double lynch ability, every single day, and she justifies her behavior by claiming she wants to have fun during the easy going day 1.

In the light of this:
Unvote: Bacde
Vote: Kelly Chen

I don't see why I am being attacked, espically for agreeing with past arugments, which basically the second, third, forth, and fith votes have been about. I'm not one to be instantly suspisous of people who think I'm scummy, but I don't see where the basis of an argument is.

What I meant by the quoted post was that I didn't think Kelly was acting strange compared to normal. That's how it felt to me.