A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Salamence20]

salamence, chillin at the bottom... care to play a game?

Nope.

Some opinions:

MoS's play is lol. Why vote and choose shadow? Seems redundant.

I would like to hear an answer from shadow. His vig targets are townreads, so I am not willing to choose him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Cogito Ergo Mum: Call me paranoid maybe.

1) Choosing someone that you call a bad lynch (as Mina pointed out)
2) Calling out redFF's scumminess, but then neither choosing nor voting him, instead Choosing someone else for a shit reason
3) The little joke flipped off at the end about CES's record of not getting lynched doesn't sit right with me either, but that's more of a gut thing.
If redFF ever flips scum, I'd bet money that this is Tierce as a scumbuddy here.
That said, I'm bored, so baaaaaaaa. Wake me up if we ever get back to Tierce-scum.

1) My Minimum read, for the nth time, is the-power-of-sheeping-Regfan. And yes, I Choose differently than I Vote and I've explained why.
2) redFF was V/LA, and

I was voting him at the time.

3) So... why do you have a problem with me making jokes here, but never had an issue with me and Vi chatting each other up in Otherworld?

Yes, that was tremendously convincing. You're not even reading my posts, since you're blatantly ignoring this:

Blatantly?

Maybe I'm not the only one who isn't paying attention...

I couldn't tell you much about what else Tierce has done b/c she's playing under a stupid alt and I have trouble connecting that on the fly. Can't really remember what else she has said, nothing else stood out to me.

That one post, though, has several things VERY wrong with it.

This pretty much answers 1) and 2) for you. No, I wasn't aware that you'd explained your dumb idea about voting and choosing differently. No, I wasn't aware that you decided to sheep Regfan. *shrug* It's not like I felt strongly enough about my read to still be voting you.

As for 3), I didn't really notice you doing that in Otherworld because I largely tune out everything you say (which is why I didn't even notice the original post until Cow quoted it to point it out. It's not like we even really interacted very much in Otherworld, either, and I didn't see what you and Vi were doing as "chatting each other up". Hell, I'll even prove it for shits and giggles:

Tierce - Null read,

haven't really paid attention to her much

although the

fighting between her and Vi has been more annoying

than constructive

There is a difference between being lazy and just pushing shitty cases, which is what you were doing, given that you had no awareness of who I was voting.

The implication that I had no awareness of who you were voting is that I was being lazy, yet instead you accuse me of purposefully pushing shitty cases. Which is it, Tierce? Did I not know you were voting redFF, or did I purposefully ignore that fact? You can't have it both ways.

MoS's play is lol. Why vote and choose shadow? Seems redundant.

I don't see a good reason not to vote and choose the same person, since they should both be scum, and thus the options are equivalent to me. Once one is selected, I simply move my other vote/choose to a new person.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS is a good player when he deigns to pay attention to the game. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't throw a vig shot away on a bad target just because he's lazy when alive on D1. His laziness has several reasons, and while I disagree with them, I understand where it comes from and it's characteristic of his D1 play.

There are several things wrong with this statement:

1) You're assuming that if I get chosen I'll have paid enough attention to D1 to be able to make an informed decision about who to vig.
2) You've clearly never seen me with a vig role. I'm awful at it, usually because I spend so much time second-guessing myself inside my head.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Do you really think this is that viable a tell in a game you think is Multiball? Scum have every reason to scum-hunt in a Multiball environment. Personally I find it to be a “Not used to the noise” tell in Large games for players with no MS experience.

Who decided this game was Multiball?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Okay umm how about the hydras started acting like one slot instead of two mason/scumbuddies
This is mostly @DEdd, but also a bit about others

+1 to that, although I'd rather we just didn't have any hydras at all. Oh, what a life that would be. They can go right after the lame alt accounts.

[Dolorous Edd]

Pandora (1) - Dolorous Edd

@MOD: My vote should be on Hyperion. Umm, I think?

[Dolorous Edd]

Do you really think this is that viable a tell in a game you think is Multiball? Scum have every reason to scum-hunt in a Multiball environment. Personally I find it to be a “Not used to the noise” tell in Large games for players with no MS experience.

Who decided this game was Multiball?

Apparently it's obv *

*Not that I don't think it's multiball. But I

think

. Which is why more people should be jumping on Feysal...

[Mastermind of Sin]

If Feysal were scum, he would be more likely to be careful in the first few posts of the game to not speculate on something that he had inside knowledge of. That he talked about the possibility of multiball doesn't mean he for sure slipped as scum. And people who are claiming that it's bs that people are calling it a scum slip don't have to be scum either.

This makes sense, although I might have to go back and read Feysal's post for myself.

(probably won't, though)

[Dolorous Edd]

If Feysal were scum, he would be more likely to be careful in the first few posts of the game to not speculate on something that he had inside knowledge of. That he talked about the possibility of multiball doesn't mean he for sure slipped as scum. And people who are claiming that it's bs that people are calling it a scum slip don't have to be scum either.

This makes sense, although I might have to go back and read Feysal's post for myself.

(probably won't, though)

He mentioned it in a big post where he could've easily slipped and not payed attention because it came natural since he already knew there is more than one scum team, and it escaped him that it's not common knowledge (underlined is mine):

I just would rather put my Choose vote on someone that could be trusted to follow through on the action rather than give it scum or a policy lynch.

Do I understand right? You don't want to choose either scum or a policy lynch candidate, but you would rather send a town read in the hopes that said town read vigs scum?

I know we can gain info from the Choose votes, but I still question those who immediately Chose someone because, again, it should not fall into the hands of the scum.

First of all, the likelihood of someone getting locked as the assassin during RVS is no higher than someone being lynched in RVS. We have 28 players in game, most of whom have not even posted yet. You can't seriously be worried that someone would suddenly be chosen at this stage.

Secondly, you don't want to choose scum? Are you out of your mind? If we choose scum,

in the best case said scum misses town and cross kills rival scum

, and in the worst case he kills town, resulting in a one for one trade. If we choose town, in the best case said town succeeds at killing scum, and in the worst case he misses and kills town, resulting in two town members lost. On night one, working from limited information, the worst case scenario is far more likely too. When the best case scenario of choosing town is the same as the worst case scenario of choosing scum, it should be obvious what we should do.

UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion
VOTE: Starbuck

At this point

no one

speculated at anything relating to multiball, so coming off like that and saying it without saying something like "assuming" or something, yes, it's suspicious.

[Tyene Sand]

MoS--so you're attentive enough to see you're placing a vote and choosing Tyene Sand, but utterly incapable of ISOing that account to see what it has posted so far before deciding to vote it?

And then making a case without ever reading it

, which is apparently what you are claiming to have done?
All the posts I have in this thread are under the same account, it's not like it would be a lot of trouble to pull it from the drop-down menu. Call me Tyene, call me Tierce, whatever, but that is a magnificently shitty excuse for not even looking at who I was

voting

before making a case that passes judgment on who I was

voting

. It's sloppy, it's scummy, it's not going to fly.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

And you're bad with a gun? Boo-hoo. If you're town and get Chosen today, if you're that incapable of reading the thread to see who's scummy, pick a wagon and flip that person. Wow, how difficult.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Uhhh, who actually bothers to ISO a person before placing a vote? You kidding me? LoL...

That said, I did actually look at the vote count to see if you were voting redFF, but I just looked at the most recent one in 552 when I was responding to Mina. Didn't really think about you changing your vote, meh.

At this point no one speculated at anything relating to multiball, so coming off like that and saying it without saying something like "assuming" or something, yes, it's suspicious.

Hmm, yea. That's a little different from out-and-out speculating multiball, which is what I thought Tierce was referring to. Could be a scumslip, hard to tell with Feysal only having 7 posts, though.

[Shinori]

Just subbed in, anyone wanna give me a general overview of what's happened? Other than that I'll probably re-read and get fully caught up tomorrow.

##Unvote:

##Unchoose:

[Tyene Sand]

Uhhh, who actually bothers to ISO a person before placing a vote? You kidding me? LoL...

I don't know, who would bother making sure that their 'case' is not total bullshit? Who would do check their facts when asked about it, instead of just making up stuff and hoping it sticks?

What a nonsensical notion, that town would bother checking their facts when scumhunting, while scum makes up fake reads.

"I looked at a votecount from 250 posts later, didn't bother checking back!" Except your post

where you voted me

, when you should be aware of the reasons you were placing that vote, was the following:

I find it curious that you have null reads on three of the weakest players in the game.


How sad that this thread would ignore redFF's scumminess. Minimum is a bad lynch and, moreover, we wouldn't want to ruin CES's record of not getting lynched, now would we?

UNCHOOSE: Feysal
CHOOSE: Minimum

This is a really bad post in pretty much every respect.

Didn't see this before, but I pretty much agree with cow.

Vote: Tierce

Choose: Tierce

And do you know what was at the top of this page, from which you're saying that that vote was, in which you say I'm not applying the appropriate pressure on redFF?

This:

The Free Cities are a group of nine cities/states along the western coast of the eastern continent. They are Pentos, Tyrosh, Lorath, Myr, Lys, Braavos Volantis, Qohor and Norvos. (Fuck I had to look up Norvos, I am BAD)

Day 1, Votecount 12

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Mastermind of Sin (1) - sword_of_omens
Starbuck (3) - Feysal, redFF, Dolorous Edd
SnowStorm (2) - Plessiezarus, Regfan

Minimum (7) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, StefanB, Benmage, BBmolla

Petyr Baelish (1) - Mastermind of Sin
Benmage (1) - SnowStorm
Salamence20 (3) - pappums rat, Staeg, Minimum
Feysal (2) - Starbuck, Pandora

redFF (1) - Tyene Sand

BBmolla (1) - Hyperion
Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Bvoigt, Plum's Yo Mamma

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• redFF is V/la until Friday.

CHOOSE NAIVETY

MagnaofIllusion (2) - sword_of_omens, MagnaofIllusion
Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Hyperion

Feysal (4) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, StefanB, BBmolla

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc

Minimum (4) - Pandora, Regfan, Tyene Sand, Plum's Yo Mamma

Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
redFF (2) - Benmage, Minimum

Not Choosing (10):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, redFF, pappums rat, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Jal, Mastermind of Sin

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.

You're full of crap, MoS. When you voted me, you didn't even bother checking what you were doing, and now are making up stuff as to the reasoning of that vote. You're trying to use things that you 'failed' to 'check' later to justify a vote that was bullshit when you placed it to begin with. You made a crappy case a posteriori, got called on it, got busted.

Votes/Choices go here.

[Tyene Sand]

Oh, and if you flip scum, I'm pretty damn sure that Cow is not aligned with you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't know, who would bother making sure that their 'case' is not total bullshit? Who would do check their facts when asked about it, instead of just making up stuff and hoping it sticks?

Oooh, I know the answer to this one! Scum would do this!

And do you know what was at the top of this page, from which you're saying that that vote was, in which you say I'm not applying the appropriate pressure on redFF?

Who said my vote was based on the redFF comment? I certainly didn't. I only noticed the redFF thing later.

[Tyene Sand]

Then by all means, explain

what the hell

you were voting me for, because you're asking for explanations from others, saying what you saw suspicious on the

post you quoted as justification to vote me

, and yet apparently none of this is a reason for you to vote me. This is beyond absurd.

[Lyanna Stark]

So, uh, you guys just gonna get a room sometime soon?

[Tyene Sand]

I should stop arguing with my scumreads and go to bed.

Don't worry, Lady Stark, you'll get your rubies.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I pointed out 3 things I found wrong with your post. Not all of them came to mind when I placed my vote, though, and I never claimed that they had. You're just making all sorts of assumptions, and we all know what happens when you assume.

Anyway, it's not like I went and did some sort of detailed analysis before voting you, that would just be silly and require a whole bunch of unnecessary effort. Point #1 is the reason I originally voted you. Points 2 and 3 happened later when I was talking about the post with Mina.

[Tyene Sand]

None of that changes my points as to why you're scum. You've just added another--you're voting me for a disagreement in theory, which, as you well know from those "MoS is being lazy D1 = scum" reads every game, is in no way a valid reason to have a scumread.

Happy with my Choice.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not even voting you lol

[Lyanna Stark]

And the languagebarrier is only my fault, not yours. If it is to difficult I will replace out. (Yes that was about her scumread on me)

No, please don't. Your English is fine.

Page 1, I know, but it sounded like possible rolefishing. What were you expecting for an answer? "Yes, all the people with alts are using their actual rolenames from the game"?

It was more annoyance with the alts and how useless they are in this situation, simply causing me to have to keep checking the front page to remember who is who.

Pfft. You and MoS are no fun. It's not like you can't already tell who Tierce and I are by our posts.

Personally, I learned that posting alot makes me scummy, and I am trying to get better at my posting rate and scumhunting, most of which I haven't done much.

Posting a lot doesn't make you scummy Sala. I remember telling you that if you could take a breath and think before you posted in NY1352 that things could be so much better, but you had a *freeness* in your posting there that you don't really have here. It doesn't have anything to do with how often you post, but the feeling of your posts that feels off.

Whee, I'm seeing

Wicked

tonight! (It's pretty easy to guess whether this is Mina or CES based on who would be excited by this and who wouldn't be caught dead in the theatre.)

*Cue fangirl excitement here* I saw

Wicked

in London and am going to see it in a few months on Broadway. I effing love

Wicked.

/fangirl excitement.

Please explain this bit, little wolf.

CES already explained it accurately. Both Arthur and Alek are rather impulsive. I wouldn't expect either of them to be communicating with each other and clearing their reads with one another scum or town.

If it's a bit of nervous posturing, you might want to stop as it's not doing you any favors and is going a long way to destroy the town vibes Arthur gave your hydra.

Why would you say this...? The way you deal with Alek is weird, it comes across as "watch it, I'm getting a bit of a scumread on you", and my brain just goes and tacks "stop it before I have to bus" to the end of your sentences. Why the kid gloves?

But, you don't actually think that do you? Because you have us both in your town reads. You should read everything I've said about the hydra. I've played with both heads since they started playing the game. Arthur's much more experienced that Alek, and I knew Arthur before he started playing mafia, so I can usually read him pretty well - that and I can be a bit protective of people I know. Right now I'm dealing with the hydra the only way I know how. If they were separate, I'd probably be town reading Arthur and be ready to lynch Alek because he's reading far more closely to his scum self than his town self. But they're a hydra, so it's a balancing act. Alek just recently won a scum game, which might be the reason for his strange cockiness or it could be the influence of the hydra and him adopting a bit of Arthur's personality, which is making him come across unnaturally. Honestly, I haven't decided which it is yet, but I think I can figure it out if given some time. So, the way I'm dealing with them is part me trying to read them the best way I know how and part me giving advice. (As far as kid gloves: I'm not sure of their alignment. If I had a strong scum read, I'd be going after them hard. Right now, I'm feeling it out.)

Cerywn's Bible anyone?

1. So, you've decided it's multi-ball? and 2.) A little too early to be pulling out the activity chart

No, it means I'll be able to read them better once there's more than meta to work with, like a lynch...

Your passive stance is out of character though.

Why aren't you questioning players? Isn't there anything that you have found odd this far in game?

Umm, it's not. I'm really not an aggressive player; I only get aggressive when more aggressive players aren't playing, like in smaller games and later game days (or when someone really annoys me...). As for odd things, yeah, I've found some but I need to do some re-reading. I don't want to start asking about things that have already been explained or that are from a different player, I need to make sure the odd things are really odd. And I'm not talking about anything specific here, just in general.

Snow, you might not be an aggressive player but you usually have opinions to offer. I've been holding off on voting you because I've been waiting on

something

to show me I shouldn't. I mean I remember one game where you weren't necessarily aggressive nor did you contribute a whole lot, but you read the game and voted for someone and claimed it was the scummiest group of posts you'd seen all game. You were right and were a big reason we lynched scum on day one in that game, so while I could understand you not being a big presence, I would expect opinions of some sort, which you usually have. That you haven't, at all, is what makes me so suspicious of you.

[Lyanna Stark]

Just subbed in, anyone wanna give me a general overview of what's happened? Other than that I'll probably re-read and get fully caught up tomorrow.

##Unvote:

##Unchoose:

Yeah, make this easy and tell us who your partners are

-------------

The MoS and Tierce stuff is a bit boring. Besides me a getting a gut distancing dance blaring through the thread, I don't know why he'd as scum make a terrible case on Tierce for no reason. I remember reading the scum qt from GvE and MoS was telling the others to calm down their crap cases because things like that was bringing them notice for no reason. He used as an example him giving obvtown me crap. I would think that scum him on day one would be a little more cognizant of that. (I'm not even sure if I understand what is going on with MoS and Tierce right now and should probably give up, NOT play mafia drunk, and go to bed.)

[Lyanna Stark]

I
Don't worry, Lady Stark, you'll get your rubies.

Yep, and you know it was my name that spilt from his lips that day at the trident and not you're sickly aunt.

[greenknight]

Checking in.

I read MoI as town and agree with his early posts regarding Minimum. Same with Lyanna and the latest page of Tierce/MoS. I think the attacks on Starbuck for thinking that Choosing town is correct policy are weak, and there's likely opportunistic scum in there. I'll catch up on everything in the middle later.

Vote: Minimum

Choose: Feysal