A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Benmage]

SnowStorm you should claim.

[Tyene Sand]

I won't, Regfan. StefanB has fooled me once as scum, I don't intend to let that happen again that easily.

SnowStorm, please list the following according to town/scum:

• BBmolla
  Benmage
  Feysal
  Jal
  kortul
  MagnaofIllusion
  Pandora
  Plessiezarus
  Regfan
  Shinori
  Tyene Sand

[SnowStorm]

SnowStorm you should claim.

You should change your vote.

[SnowStorm]

I won't, Regfan. StefanB has fooled me once as scum, I don't intend to let that happen again that easily.

SnowStorm, please list the following according to town/scum:

TOWN
Regfan
Tyene Sand
Plessiezarus
Pandora
MagnaofIllusion
Benmage
BBmolla
Feysal
kortul
Shinori
Jal
SCUM

That, more or less.

[Dolorous Edd]

Oh crap, there is actually a decent wagon on bvoigt.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bvoigt

Much much much more comfortable pushing this counter wagon.

bvoigt

/

Feysal

it is for me.

[Benmage]

No 4 votes is not a counter wagon. We don't need a 60 page d1. HEAD OUT OFF ASS... lets end today.

[Benmage]

SnowStorm you should claim.

You should change your vote.

There is no legitimate counter wagon. To drag out today would be detrimental to the game. If you were town you'd go willingly at this point and simply yield final reads.

[bvoigt]

Snowstorm unvoting Benmage at Post 617 without actually re-voting really is dinging my scumdar. The whole point of his “my Town read on Benmage nullified my vote” stance was that Benmage wasn’t in any lynch danger and thus his vote was no danger. So he has no reason to unvote in that post given he doesn’t have someplace he wants the vote to go.

This is actually a good point. SnowStorm is definitely a better lynch than Minimum, though obviously Sala is my first choice.

I think the motivation was to "manufacture," if you will, a towntell. Again, there's no direct scum motivation to selfchoose. But the way that you pointed out that scum wouldn't want to do it as soon as someone questioned you makes me think that it was a move deliberately calculated to get towncred.

Well given that you (and several others) have had this same reaction I frankly find your “You did it to get Town-cred” when it has netted me none and I don’t really care anyway to be pretty ludicrous.

@Bvoigt

– so did you stop ‘back-mining’ the thread because I called you out on it?

The irony of you attacking Sala for “going after easy mislynches” in Post 613 is not lost on me. Sala has the biggest VI rep in the game by far.

Um, no, I simply got caught up.

The thing about Sala is that

every single one

of his scumreads is an "easy" choice. It's not a scumtell to have a case on a VI or popular wagon if you actually explain the scum motivation behind their posts...but Sala hasn't done that.

@Plum/Nacho in #746:

1. Opposing a nameclaim was far from a "useless side conversation" as you said. It would have been anti-town for Starbuck to nameclaim, so it was important to bring it up. As far as the question to BBMolla, it was dumb and didn't lead anywhere so I dropped it. Some questions always end up like that.

2. Yes, I've been lazy in regards to Minimum. I have to admit it's bad play, but...(shrug)

3. Yes, Sala is the only case I've really pushed in this game, because he's by far my strongest scumread, and MoI and Feysal haven't really done enough scummy things that I could make a full case on them. More scum reads would be nice, but I've also acquired some town reads that will hopefully help with PoE at some point.

I was unimpressed by Feysal's #796. As Tierce said, he seems to be focusing on stuff that isn't really important.

DCLXVI's #804 is townish. The townread on Shadow and scumread on Tierce read as sincere to me.

-I think MoI and shadow are also town. The selfvote from MoI and the sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)

-Not liking benmage much, mostly for his first two posts, he makes a silly RVS post and immediately follows it up by...chiding everyone for not taking the game seriously...

What's this? You like my Self-Vote while not liking Benmage's first two posts which also contain a post 1 Self-Vote?

This looks to me like you're twisting his words. He mentioned that Benmage's choose was just RVS (was it? doesn't really matter, I guess). It makes sense to me that someone would discount an RVS self-choose but find a serious one townish.

Actually, despite white I just said about DCLXVI, his posts since then have been pretty scummy. This is an interesting quote:

Was just planning on just reading this thread before bed, but this needs a response.

So he wasn't planning to post, but since Regfan called him scum, suddenly he decides it's too important to wait? This pretty clearly shows that to him, defending himself takes priority over scumhunting. Yes, he also called Reg scum in that post, but it was more of an afterthought than anything. (As town, I think defending oneself and scumhunting are both important, but at most, they're equals. Scum, IMO, might place more of a priority on defense.)

@Edd in #896:

1. I don't know

how

exactly scum could use that information, but I know that giving them more info is never a good idea. A nameclaim would not be helpful to the town unless we were close to actually lynching Starbuck.

2. He...wasn't...the top Choose wagon at the time. Right?

3. As you can see from #510, I had already had reasons to suspect Sala. The case I posted later just presented those reasons more clearly, and added a couple of other things that I had noticed. Clearly, it didn't work out, but my intention was to convince others to vote him.

@Regfan: How do you think I can improve my play, here and in the future? I think my case on Sala is "real content," but....

@Tammy: What do you think of Shinori? I ask because you just saw him as scum in Leprechaun Mafia (and I'm lazy).

[DCLXVI]

DCL, I still want links to games where you've replaced in as town and scum

Only have two games before this where I replaced in. (I haven't been around that long, and I don't usually replace in) Once as scum. Once as town.

Here are the links to that:

Open 402 (scum): https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22015
Mini 1316 (town): https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21282

Pedit: I'm seeing snow as town right now. Lack of claim seems more town motivated then scummy.
double Pedit: Yes, defending myself is important, especially when the claims against me were so fallacious.

[SnowStorm]

There is no legitimate counter wagon. To drag out today would be detrimental to the game.

If you were town you'd go willingly at this point

and simply yield final reads.

What? So you're just asking me to give up? Seriously? Is that how you do it here?

[Dolorous Edd]

No

4 votes is

not

a counter wagon.

We don't need a 60 page d1. HEAD OUT OFF ASS... lets end today.

Totally. You should also jump on. 5 > 4.

[Benmage]

There is no legitimate counter wagon. To drag out today would be detrimental to the game.

If you were town you'd go willingly at this point

and simply yield final reads.

What? So you're just asking me to give up? Seriously? Is that how you do it here?

Give final reads. If you are lynch now, or on pg 60... whats better for the town? (hint to be lynched now)

[Benmage]

DC

i guess you missed this:

-You didn't answer my question about your useless vote.

I don't view my votes as useless.

Whats your case against Jal?

What do you think is the likelihood of Jal being lynched today?

[Dolorous Edd]

Give final reads. If you are lynch now, or on pg 60... whats better for the town? (hint to be lynched now)

(Hint: A town person giving up is never

ever

a good idea. Snow if you're town, please don't give up. And benmage, I think you're overexaggerating.)

[Benmage]

When the inevitable is set... you give final reads, and you end the day. There will be no great epiphany... nothing will change... and the end of the day I will go "i told you so"... see you there in 20 pages of nothingness... gj being antitown.

[Benmage]

DOLOROUS! Everyone fucking capitulates otherwise lynches don't happen. RARELY do I ever get to lynch my #1 choice. I fought Snow's lynch for 38? pages.... Buts its done. its going to happen. Today needs to end. I think Snow will flip town. There is zero difference between me capitulating, ans SNOW capitulating to her own lynch. GEtfuckingbetter.

[SnowStorm]

When the inevitable is set... you give final reads, and you end the day. There will be no great epiphany... nothing will change... and the end of the day I will go "i told you so"... see you there in 20 pages of nothingness... gj being antitown.

Since when is my lynch inevitable? Since you added your vote and said so? and isn't lynching other town players anti-town too?

Is anyone else in a hurry?

[SnowStorm]

DOLOROUS! Everyone fucking capitulates otherwise lynches don't happen. RARELY do I ever get to lynch my #1 choice. I fought Snow's lynch for 38? pages.... Buts its done. its going to happen. Today needs to end. I think Snow will flip town. There is zero difference between me capitulating, ans SNOW capitulating to her own lynch. GEtfuckingbetter.

Ok, so you're the one giving up. If you think I'm town, why aren't you pushing for your scum reads?

Btw, I'm a "he".

[Benmage]

Lynching town as town is perfectly viable.

You're L-4... whose next? L-11....... Keep fluffing with me, totally not proving my point. (Hint to derailing selfwagon is attacking the shitty voters on your wagon.. providing a strong alternative suspect...getting the middle voters to vote alternative suspect

I'll help push you in the right direction...

bullet the bvoigt case.

[SnowStorm]

I already tried that, It didn't work.

[Benmage]

DOLOROUS! Everyone fucking capitulates otherwise lynches don't happen. RARELY do I ever get to lynch my #1 choice. I fought Snow's lynch for 38? pages.... Buts its done. its going to happen. Today needs to end. I think Snow will flip town. There is zero difference between me capitulating, ans SNOW capitulating to her own lynch. GEtfuckingbetter.

Ok, so you're the one giving up. If you think I'm town, why aren't you pushing for your scum reads?

Btw, I'm a "he".

Because I'm much more experienced than you. These games don't last hours or days... they last months... and wasting 60 pages on D1 is not beneficially to the town. So lynching you, and analyzing it afterwards and moving forward is the best bet for the town right now.... what can I say, the truth hurts? Ignorance is Bliss?

[Benmage]

I already tried that, It didn't work.

ty for already proving my point.

[SnowStorm]

...Yeah, you got a point.

Still, it's not fully my fault that we're in this stupid situation. If people weren't so lazy to realize at least half of the votes on my wagon are crap and so stubborn to admit that their read on me is wrong we could have avoided this lynch.

Well, I still got a role to claim. I'm a mason.

[Benmage]

Well fuck, lol if you're a confirmable mason... you won't be lynched.

I... guess... your partner ought to claim? Two confirmed townies.... its late maybe my mind sucks right now.... but that'll definitely avoid you being lynched.

[Benmage]

Oh nameclaim I guess cant hurt...