A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[kortul]

I realized do have one question about this claim though, to

those who have deep knowledge of the theme

- is Little Walder Frey being a mason makes sense from roleplaying point of view?

[kortul]

I am too tired to ISO my second strongest suspicion atm, and even if after the ISO i will believe he is also scum, using CHOOSE on him would be more sensible, therefore i will do the ISO tomorrow.

"I haven't read someone, but I bet you after I do, they'll be scum!"

Hmm, i thought that anyone who plays mafia should know the IF clause and some kind of formal logic (even without proper education), so interpreting my words like this means that comment was done without even thinking on the meaning.

[Tyene Sand]

@Feysal:

I don't like Tammy's playstyle and think she's too emotional, but it ends there and I wouldn't grudge-lynch on it, as she reads Town and is a decent scumhunter. The Winterfell v. emotional bit was playing at the fact that the Starks live in one of the coldest locations in Westeros and still have some of the most fiery tempers in the series, though nothing compared with some of the tempers among the Martell/Sand bloodlines.

I thought you had meta on me (and I thought you knew the series--how dare you not); the way you address me in games seems to suggest it. If I'm wrong, yeah--things make more sense. I thought you had been in an informed position and distorting things, but you apparently haven't much read me in games to begin with. That does away with a good chunk of the suspicion.

---

Been mulling on it, and I agree--mason partner claim now is unnecessary. My initial point in it was that I've recently changed my view on masons; they're more valuable as confirmable roles than in any power they might have through good reads and convincing arguments. Players who are naturally scummy make great vanilla masons, as scum are forced to decide whether to kill solid townreads or the conftown that isn't doing much. Anything that throws a wrench in scum plans like a confirmed mason set is a good thing--but yes, we can wait, there's no need to deal with it Today. Had a rush of blood to the head for wanting things out in the open, but upon reviewing it there's no need to push for that claim.

And yes, kortul, it makes sense for Little Walder Frey to be a mason.

[Tyene Sand]

This is actually a good point. SnowStorm is definitely a better lynch than Minimum, though

obviously

Sala is my first choice.

While I have hardly paid attention to bvoigt so far, I really dislike the smug wording in this line. (

Emphasis

mine.) And it's by far the least awful of the main wagons.

Someone saying obviously is indicative of smug wording?

So this one night I completely failed at Englishing

Smug

is not the right word, actually, but I was trouble finding one that did until just now--

posturing

fits much better. It's like bvoigt is saying "I could go for this other lynch, but

this one

is so perfect and

just look

how I've been trying for it for such a long time." It could be playstyle, and he

has

been going after

the ridiculously easy lynchbait

Salamence for quite a while, but it feels like an unnecessary turn of phrase.

[Plessiezarus]

I really picked the wrong day to take off from the game . Still need to properly catch-up, but since I've seen the claim...

UNVOTE: SnowStorm

Will probably switch to bvoigt (almost certainly, in fact) but I need to talk it over with Zar first.

Re: Greenknight - I remember thinking he was scum during the beginning of day one in the game we played together, and he's kind of reminding me of that here. As I said before, I'm not a big fan of his posts, but I'm not reading him as scum either.

Link? I've only seen greenknight in Feast... we're pretty confident in that scum-read.

Someone saying obviously is indicative of smug wording?

Obviously.

(That was pretty smug, right? I was going for smug.)

I still want a partner claim, but there's no point in stalling this and give time for one of my town reads to get wagoned.

If you're SnowStorm's mason buddy, this is your time to claim. Otherwise your Frey friend eats rope.

This makes no sense though. Unless the game isn't multiball (and not even Edd is pretending to think it isn't), a mason claim this early means SnowStorm has definitely ensured his own death, whether he's town or scum. No need for a partner claim today at all.

@ the Stark-Girl:

We have a fairly strong read on both ScumStorm & MiniScum (I've been wanting to use that name for a bit xD), the former being in the OMG-SO-SCUM tier for both of us, while the latter I have a weaker confidence about (mostly because Mina's annoyance reads as legit to me, and I don't feel confident about hypo-MinaScum going about poking MoI as much; my opinion on CES' remains unchanged, though). Anyway, your comment "still can't get to town on SnowStorm" in 710, seems to imply there's something about him making you hesitant about considering him obvscum here. What is it?

~.Zar

Nothing I can put my finger on and if his claim is a real claim then hmm... There are several reasons why I could tell you why he's scum, but there are little flashes of the SnowStorm Post 484 that I know who gets intimidated and tends not to contribute much at times and becomes easy lynch bait. He hasn't given me any good reason to think he's town, but I also get caught up on calling him scum, and it could just be as simple as him seeming genuinely baffled that people think he's scum. By logic he's scum, but it just feels too easy somehow.

I know that it's past this question, but what do you think about his mason claim?

First instinct is to doubt it, but ... meh. Might be enough to explain his slightly off behaviour, I guess (town-mason SnowStorm would want to avoid giving away his connections to a partner for the same reasons scum SnowStorm would).

Anyway, more to follow later.

~ Pless

[Lyanna Stark]

Tierece - LOL

i can sympathize after I failed at Englishing several times while teaching earlier today and it's my first language

. That makes sense. I need to re-read through bvoigt and see if I can be objective about his alignment. I should probably wait a day or two though.

[Lyanna Stark]

Will probably switch to bvoigt (almost certainly, in fact) but I need to talk it over with Zar first.

Re: Greenknight - I remember thinking he was scum during the beginning of day one in the game we played together, and he's kind of reminding me of that here. As I said before, I'm not a big fan of his posts, but I'm not reading him as scum either.

Link? I've only seen greenknight in Feast... we're pretty confident in that scum-read.

I happen to be the huge dork who is laying in bed playing mafia on my iPad and avoiding sleep for some reason, but not dorky enough to know how to give you a link. The game I'm referring to is the good versus evil game thou. It's here in the theme park.

Someone saying obviously is indicative of smug wording?

Obviously.

(That was pretty smug, right? I was going for smug.[/quote]

When aren't you smug :p

[Tyene Sand]

Good v. Evil, Law v. Chaos

[kortul]

Thanks, Tierce.

Have some time for reading now, planned to continue reread, but with 4 days remaining and claim of Snow deciding on a vote and choose is more important atm. Those not voting (or sitting on wagons with 1-2 votes) should make a decision as well, compromise if needed.

Without the finished reread ISO is the way to go, so i will check Salamence20 and bvoigt (two leading wagons for Vote); Feysal, greenknight and Shadow1psc (wagons for Choose). Based on finished part of reread i don't like Shadow1psc and Salamence20 (weaker read), have weak town read on Feysal and seen like one or two posts from bvoigt and nothing from greenknight, so both are null.

[Dolorous Edd]

Ahahah. Told you Snow was town. Now we just wasted a claim

Also, can the choice please be Feysal? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?*

*And I think the Choose has to be locked in before the lynch, or am I wrong? If a lynch happens before a choice, does it automatically go to the highest choice wagon?

[Eddard Stark]

Ibben (sometimes called Ib) is an island nation, located north of the Dothraki Sea, in the Shivering Sea, which is the polar sea north of the eastern continent. The Port of Ibben is the chief city of Ibben. It is a cold, mountainous wasteland region where mammoths are said to roam.

Day 1, Votecount 33

SnowStorm (5) - Regfan, Feysal, Jal, Shinori, MagnaofIllusion
Minimum (2) - Salamence20, Hasdgfas
Salamence20 (5) - Amrun, Minimum, bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Shadow1psc
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (1) - Staeg
Shadow1psc (2) - StefanB, Lyanna Stark

bvoigt (7) - Plum's Yo Mamma, greenknight, SnowStorm, Dolorous Edd, Benmage, Tyene Sand, Pandora

Jal (1) - DCLXVI

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, BBmolla, kortul, Plessiezrus

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• MJ may be V/la for a hurricane.

CHOOSE A MAMMOTH

Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Jal

Feysal (8) - Salamence20, Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori, Mastermind of Sin, DCLXVI, Dolorous Edd, Benmage

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Minimum (3) - Regfan, StefanB, Lyanna Stark
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
Shadow1psc (2) - MagnaofIllusion, Mockingjaye
greenknight (6) - Plum's Yo Mamma, Minimum, Tyene Sand, Pandora, Plessiezarus, BBmolla

Not Choosing (3):

kortul, Amrun, SnowStorm

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.

Any mistakes, please point them out.

[Plessiezarus]

*And I think the Choose has to be locked in before the lynch, or am I wrong? If a lynch happens before a choice, does it automatically go to the highest choice wagon?

The "why is everyone else so dense?" attitude you and Alek have decided to affect in this game would be more convincing (though hardly less irritating) if you actually bothered to read the thread.

A simple majority will lock in an assassin, however if there is no majority then the person with the most votes shall be chosen. Should two or more people have the same number of votes

then they will all die and become assassins...no wait that'd be terrible

then an assassin will be randomly determined.

Somebody will be Chosen when the day ends, majority or no majority.

~ Pless

[Dolorous Edd]

Null pile re-reads incoming. I wanna squeeze these in before end day, and since I will be V/LA from late Fri till Wed for Labor day weekend, I need to try to sort out my reads.

For not, I re-read kortul, and I wanna put him in the leaning town pile, but I'm just not too convinced. He does seem though like he is trying and doing his best to figure out the game, I'm just unsure yet. Will keep him in the null pile for now, but he's slightly leaning town in my mind. Though I caught this:

If anyone interested, right now my town reads are (S->W) Lyanna Stark, Regfan, Plessiezarus, MoI, Tyene Sand, Staeg, Plums Yo Mamma, Feysal, and hesitating on Minimum and Dolorus Edd. I know, that there are some cross suspicions among them, but that doesn't mean they can't be

town

together.

I'm guessing you obv mean scum here, not town?

Also, can you please explain your strong town read on Feysal please?

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Snowstorm

He’s claimed Mason and given a name. I can actually see someone with a Mason role thinking they could derp around knowing they were confirmed Town. I have little flavor knowledge (outside what I have picked up from playing these games and a few episodes of the HBO series) so I will assume the Freys make sense as members of the Lannister Alliance.

Suffice it to say I’m not 100% accepting of the claim at this stage. Anyone who knows Eddard Stark games knows there should be a Neighborhood in this game (I alluded to this earlier) but that doesn’t outright make the claim invalid. I myself think knowing the name of his Mason partner / partners (flavor name specifically) would be helpful long term but don’t care enough to absolutely push on the issue.

VOTE: Bvoigt

My next most viable scum read.

Choose: Minimum

– I don’t favor a Feysal choose currently so I need to consolidate on a viable alternate option among my scum reads.

Not really liking the immediate “Partners should claim” stance from either Benmage or Tierce. Both are experienced enough to know that only helps scum out this early. Later on if there are questions (or conflicting claims) it can be handled then.

--

Um, no, I simply got caught up.

So you felt the need to comment on Page 1 – 5 posts but more or less didn't comment on the 20ish pages afterwards to comment on recent happenings then?

This looks to me like you're twisting his words. He mentioned that Benmage's choose was just RVS (was it? doesn't really matter, I guess). It makes sense to me that someone would discount an RVS self-choose but find a serious one townish.

Um, whut? You think Benmage just ‘randomly RVS’ chose himself? That’s a pretty weak stance to take. The rest of your argument is predicated on this and I don’t think Benmage has said “yeah, I RVSed myself” anywhere to support the premise.

--

Ahahah. Told you Snow was town. Now we just wasted a claim

You do know who is in best position to make Town calls on non-scumhunting derps, right? That being said – why are you so certain it isn’t a fake-claim without any independant confirmation? Because scum have never claimed Masons before, right?

[Tyene Sand]

Not really liking the immediate “Partners should claim” stance from either Benmage or Tierce. Both are experienced enough to know that only helps scum out this early. Later on if there are questions (or conflicting claims) it can be handled then.

It was a stupid moment on my end, and I can see Benmage being tired enough not to think things through.

The flavor name of the partner is evident for people who have read the series, so don't fret over it at this stage.

[Dolorous Edd]

Plum's Yo Mamma

start was actually pretty ruff and I can actually see it as somewhat scummy, but the latter half of their posts seems much much better. Leaning town for now.

Shadow1psc

- Wow. I didn't actually realize the amount of fluff in there. He has basically either fluffed his way through the game, or nitpciking here and there. Leaning scum.

Mos

- I really don't like some of his posts. His posts about not paying attention to the game, like voting Pandora for being a hydra alt, etc, seem really forced, and it just seems like he is trying to replicate his town play (granted, I've only seen him play town a few times). Post 578 is

very

late, and it just seems like he was stuck back in the dust while everyone moved forward. Leaning scum.

pappums rat/Amrun

- Leaning town, mostly based on gut, but there is some elements of the posts that strike me as coming from town-minded rather than scum.

greenknight

- Leaning scum. I don't really like some of the tone in his posts, and his pushing on people feels awkward and forced. And his defense to anything seems to lash back at them.

Yay! We're left with Minimum. Which I won't be doing yet :p

Soooo:

TOWN FOR EVER AND EVER:

Benmage, Pandora, Lyanna Stark, BBmolla, Tyene Sand, Regfan

LEANING TOWN (S->W):

SnowStorm, StefanB, DCLXVI, hasdgfas, Staeg, Starbuck, MagnaofIllusion, Plum's Yo Mamma, Amrun

NULL:

Minimum, kortul

LEANING SCUM (S->W):

greenknight, Mastermind of Sin, Shadow1psc, Salamence20, Shinori

IS SCUM:

Mockingjaye, Feysal, Jal, Bvoigt

Notes:
Shinori is actually slipping as a leaning scum, and moving up a bit. So is Sala in a sense. They both actually belong in that virtual tier between null and leaning scum.
It would be stupid to arrange the first, third, and last tier from S->W. The second and fourth tier is to just give an idea of who is most likely to move up/down where

[Dolorous Edd]

Ahahah. Told you Snow was town. Now we just wasted a claim

You do know who is in best position to make Town calls on non-scumhunting derps, right? That being said – why are you so certain it isn’t a fake-claim without any independant confirmation? Because scum have never claimed Masons before, right?

No, because I already

had a town read on him

.

The flavor name of the partner is evident for people who have read the series, so don't fret over it at this stage.

Oh, oh, oh! Can I say it? :p

[kortul]

With meetings/etc only finished

Salamance

ISO. I think he is leaning scum.

I really don't like his catchup post, since every single comment, question or observation, that isn't defense, is either negative or accusing. This isn't real scumhunting, imho, but attempts to cause dissention as much as possible. Some later posts are one the same wavelength.

His defense is bad as well. Like, in posts 384 and 393, of all the points of Minimum, he decided to address only the meta part, ignoring everything else, by deflecting on a basis that he and Ces "haven't even played a full game together, so I don't think that is enough for CES to get suspicious". This may be true (though he has the right to suspect anyway), but what about the rest?

His latest posts are about nothing. No efforts to even pretend to be scumhunting.

I have a funny feeling that he is trying to find out, is it possible to have fun, do nothing and get away with it. It isn't a scumtell, but not a town attitude either. Without his "catchup post" i would rate him as neutral, silly, slightly leaning scum, but that post, without nothing to balance it, sinked him lower.

Began to work on bvoigt, mixed impressions so far.

[Pandora]

Almost completed my giant reads list of doom, gonna post it tomorrow fo sho.

-- Quilford

[Shadow1psc]

Contributing day one is subjective. Consider: we've made the same number of votes this day. Just because you feel like wall posting doesn't give your posts any more weight than mine. Also, nice fishing.

[Shadow1psc]

So so so tired of Shadow doing nothing but sniping from the sidelines. Like really, I suppose according to Post 724 he's got some magnificent ~role~ he knows will keep him off the lynch/choose wagon but does that mean we have to be subjected to an entire game full of sniping/cutesy gifs/gloating type posts??? Like seriously, can we just lynch/choose him and be done with it? Please???

This shoulda been quoted in the last post*

[DCLXVI]

is Little Walder Frey being a mason makes sense from roleplaying point of view?

Others have answered but I can also say that it makes sense.

[Plessiezarus]

I
You and SnowStorm have a similar sign-in date to Soph's board, and have been in basically every game played there since (looking back at the records, SS's first game was 82.75, and yours was 83). Given the many games you've played together,

something

in his play must be striking you as off to warrant a null? Right? What is it? (Here's an altless one for the curious). How are SS's reactions even remotely similar to what he normally plays like?

~Zar.

Ok, Zar, how are my reactions in this game different from the others and how does that make me scum? What scum tells have you on me?

My first game was your first game also and we've played some games together since then, but I've played more games with Arthur than with you, who modded most of them. What makes you think your read on me is more accurate than Arthur's?

And don't compare this game to games like the one you just linked to. It's completely incomparable.

Stuff like this post. Mostly. (For the record, my first game was 82.5, not 82.75).

Ever since Game 86 you seem to have made an effort into improving your game, which I'm not seeing here. As Tammy pointed out, most of the time you are playing, even when you do not have a suspect, you're in the discussion asking questions and being engaged in the discernment of alignment of players by expressing opinions or sharing thoughts.

Modding a game is evidently very different from playing one, which gives me a different perspective from the unspoiled one I get as a regular player. As a mod, already knowing your aligment, I get to see how you go about approaching the game and engaging the other players.

The way you seem to be pressing the few cases you made seems uncommitted and un-explanatory, coming from you. You aren't going over posts or being proactive. Except for calling Tammy town in 560 you weren't even invested the least in identifying players that you thought were town until called out for it. This is behavior I find disparing from somebody who's played more than 20 games (if my count is right).

I do not think you could be overwhelmed by the volume of posts in this thread. You've participated in large Westerosi games that require much more attention than this one, yet you strike me as trying to ride the wave here.

Now that you've claimed Mason, do you not accept you might have been acting differently from the way you usually do?

~ Zar.

[kortul]

Ahahah. Told you Snow was town. Now we just wasted a claim

You may be right, but we will know it only after the flip.

If anyone interested, right now my town reads are (S->W) Lyanna Stark, Regfan, Plessiezarus, MoI, Tyene Sand, Staeg, Plums Yo Mamma, Feysal, and hesitating on Minimum and Dolorus Edd. I know, that there are some cross suspicions among them, but that doesn't mean they can't be

town

together.

I'm guessing you obv mean scum here, not town?

Also, can you please explain your strong town read on Feysal please?

I said what i wanted to say. I have town reads, some of them are against each other, but i still believe they can be wrong, stuck in confirmation bias, and be town together. Or i may be wrong about someone, that's why i reassess my reads regularly. I do believe i can't be wrong about all (or most) of them.

As for Feysal, take a look on my reads again. They are sorted from strong to weak, and Feysal is in the weak part. I actually liked his post 47. Some players see a possible scum slip there, and i see just a good theoretical post on a new option, available to us. I may be wrong and it could be a slip, but the post is good regardless of it. There were some points in other posts that i liked, so i have a weak town read on him. Since i am planning to do an ISO on him anyway, as he is one of the leading wagons for Choosing, i will post the updated read after that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Note for the record how Minimum's activity (specifically the Mina half) has dropped off since the pressure on them abated.