A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Tyene Sand]

No one is doing that, thus my confusion as to why he's playing the pity card when no one is pushing him on policy (though yes, he deserves it).

[Dolorous Edd]

So it’s much better right now to create pressure than really having to believe in your vote. I’m not saying just bandwagon or something, but you don’t really necessarily have to believe with all your soul and heart that someone is scum to be voting/choosing them at this point. At least, that’s the way I see it, because otherwise, scum can easily slip by.

Ok. Fair enough. Now, can you tell me how did you intend your vote on Hyperion to cause pressure if you did not state any reasons for it?

I really did not feel the need to add reasons. Simple enough. But for an explanation, I guess I can go into a boring explanation.

Sometimes I vote simply because I do not really have a read on that person. Just forcing a reason out of me will not really

help

. Sometimes I just need the person to sweat, have my vote on that person, because usually when I do, I tend to pay attention more to their actions, etc, so I know if my vote is good there or if it should be moved else where. But this can only obv work when there is already a fairly somewhat big wagon on that person. Obv the early voters on that wagon had a reason to be voting. These are the people, as I already mentioned previously, are the "passion" voters. They're the ones who are really voting because they have something. They are not voting to start a wagon or something because they are pulling stuff out of their ass or they are trying to add pressure or something. Usually, if somewhat later in time those people still have a vote there, then I tend to go back and look at what their original argument is again, and actually evaluate it more in depth. Then if it makes logical sense, and I more or less can see where they're coming from (note, this does not necessarily mean I

believe

in it, just that they are making a logical argument) then I look at if the actual person being wagoned has responded well, even to the little pressure. Initial reactions to early accusation, while sometimes hard to get a grasp on, because even scum can respond well to little pressure since they're no where near eating rope, can sometimes actually be clear. It really comes down to 3 options. i) The person responded logically to the accusations, and if he made sense. By making sense, I really apply Occam's razor, esp in early stages. That means if I can see where you're coming from, and it is more likely that you believe in what you are saying and that you are being honest and genuine, and your reply makes fair sense, then I usually leave that wagon be for now. If the "passion" voters still want to pursue that, then they can go ahead. ii) The person responded rather poorly, in which case I would just add my vote, though this scenerio is rather slim at this stage, since if he responded poorly more people would've jumped and prob I would've noticed it earlier, and iii) which is the category hyper fits in, is the one where the person doesn't really respond to the pressure and/or respond very vaguley and still needs more pressure. At this stage, me adding my votehelps to create neccesary pressure. However, I really can't

come up

with different reasons, nor do I really want to force reasons. The main point is to just add pressure so the person can respond to early accusations and/or so the person can be in closer range of rope so they know people mean serious.

As I said, he started the game out strongly, jumped right in, wasn’t really cautious, and really started scumhunting at an early stage. I think the majority if not all of scum would start the game on a cautious note especially in a game this large. You know, if you put yourself in a scum shoes, would you just really come out and start posting a lot and interact and stuff, or would you lean more towards the side of cautious?

Can you point at the posts that make you feel this way?

It just the way he starts it without really a cautious or fearful approch. For example, he jumps right into questioning in post 27. Also, for example his tone of post is more of "this is what we're going to do" rather than the "I think" etc. This shows he is not afraid to show his opinion and start out the game on a strong note. For example posts 17 and 35. You know, just by ISOing him you can feel the difference in his tone vs someone who is cautious or something.

That’s why upon reading Regfan’s post first, my mind clicked right away “town”. Upon assessing it, however, it really didn’t strike me as town as it did the first time around, and I realized that someone can easily begin the game like that and look strong while merely just writing a lot of words summarizing and putting tiers and stuff.

Ok, so something in Regfan's post is rubbing you off wrong. Can you give me some insight at what you think is iffy about Regfan's summary post in this game as compared as what he's done in other games? Or, can you just tell me what you find off in his summary?

I really don't know what you expect more. I feel like I just say something and then you just keep replying to it with "show example", "why", and stuff. I already game insight into why I find his summary posts scummy, and yes, it is mostly based on gut. And as I already stated before, I am not too familiar with regfan meta, so I really can't compare and contrast.

Umm, not really sure. I really can’t speak for Alek, but for me, I really don’t take “I suck” or something along those lines as you’re not getting lynched. Sorry I can’t really expand on this. But me and Alek are really two different people <_<

This isn't addressed to us, but touches on a point that has been bugging Pless. You seem to assume that players should discern which Hydra head has said what? Not everyone here is familiar with either of you, and

Plessiez can't distinguish you for his life

some of us aren't that good at noticing posting quirks in people (unless you of course are Mina and CES, in which the difference in

the gargantuan verbosity of Mina is obvious

posting style is rather evident, --well unless Mina takes vow of silence, which she could but it then would be boring and we'd be yelling at her for it?--). I would appreciate if from now on you would make clear which head is saying what, and, for the sake of everyone's sanity, at least

try

to start acting like a single slot. Also,

this is why Hydras should sign their posts

.

~Zar.

Umm, I'll try? But it pretty obv to tell us apart, esp since Alek

does

sign his posts. He kind of makes clumps of posts and then signs them, so I don't see why it's too hard...

~ Arthur. Or is it

Umm, well this is awkward. Esp ruins my joke at the end

~Post on Ser Arthur Dayne account deleted

[DCLXVI]

No one is doing that

, thus my confusion as to why he's playing the pity card when no one is pushing him on policy (

though yes, he deserves it

).

Minimum has basically made it know I'm a completely acceptable Policy lynch

There are a lot of inconsistencies here. At least from my POV right now.

Also, still re-reading stuff. Dolorous is def town though, she is legitimately scum-hunting.

[Tyene Sand]

Stop skimming the latest page and go read the game. You'll understand the policy stuff when you're through.

[Dolorous Edd]

No one is doing that

, thus my confusion as to why he's playing the pity card when no one is pushing him on policy (

though yes, he deserves it

).

Minimum has basically made it know I'm a completely acceptable Policy lynch

There are a lot of inconsistencies here. At least from my POV right now.

Also, still re-reading stuff. Dolorous is def town though, she is legitimately scum-hunting.

Umm, 2 things here.

1) That is a post

by

MoI interpreting what another person might've said. That doesn't actually mean that person means that (not that I'm saying they don't, but you can't just quote something by someone and take their word for it.)

2) I'm a dude. Both me (Arthur, which is a dude's name...) and Alek (which is also a dude's name...) are guys (not to consider Dolorous Edd is a dude... I thought you said you're familiar with the books? )

[DCLXVI]

I am, but I'm terrible with names You have no idea how many times I have to skip back to the appendix to figure out who is who. I didn't take the time yet to figure out who you are yet.

Ok, so MoI thinks people are trying to Pl him but they aren't? But some players are saying that MoI would deserve to get PLd?

[Tyene Sand]

The fact that he deserves it does not mean it's happening. Seriously, go read, this is among of the tiniest things you could have poked at and the fact that you're going at it without all the context makes it all the more frustrating to see. You have 29 pages to go through, please get started instead of interjecting about this kind of thing.

[DCLXVI]

Um the reason I commented on it was because it was the latest post right as I joined. I am going to comment on other stuff. You do realized I have 25 pages to go over.

[Tyene Sand]

I do realize that. That's why I've asked you to

stop commenting on things you have no context for

and

please go read

, which appears to be something you're not giving priority to.

I may have a bit of a short fuse with you, but my identity should clue you in as to why's that. So please, just go do your catch-up and get back when you have actual reads.

[DCLXVI]

Yes, I know who you are.

[Lyanna Stark]

Okay so, new semester starts tomorrow and I'm covering another instructor's courses in addition to my own this week. I never know how the first week is going to go, so my activity probably won't be that great this week. I'm not v/la or anything, just might not be very active for a few days.

I originally liked Shinori's entrance to the game because he seemed relaxed. He's a bit nervous as scum, so I think he'll be easier to read as he posts more, but I'm not a fan at all of Post 636

I'm waffling a bit on minimum. I still feel like their posts are off, and while I don't know if I want them lynched I don't feel comfortable moving my vote at this moment. I need to think about this a bit. I'm not sure if I'm paranoid about that slot because right now I'm just paranoid of the slot or if I legitimately think they're scum here. I'm not a big fan of Post 641 because some of it felt off. The "thanks now you've guaranteed we'll get lynched" didn't exactly sit right since it was at complete odds with her earlier acknowledgment that she has a tendency to start awkwardly but is able to let her obvtownness shine through and was confident that she wouldn't end up getting lynched. We're a week from deadline, 5 people have replaced out, there are several others who are lurking or providing little content who are raising suspicions and enough people voicing opposition to the minimum lynch that the guarantee statement seems off. And I agree with Pless/Zar (?) who said that the unedited version would have had a better impact maybe. Her Post 643 similarly felt a bit off but does come far closer to what I would expect from Mina-town who's frustrated over suspicion and a possible lynch. I don't know if I'm being fair in thinking that these two posts feel off though because I keep thinking to myself that I know Mina's capable of channeling her town outrage and I worry that that is coloring my view of them. Anyway, I need to think.

Pless already responded to this, but it's not just at game's start, it's based on activity level and contribution over the course of the days (and can't even really be broached until near deadline of the first day)

AND most importantly it applies when everyone is aware that it's multiball.

Umm, objection? I think it applies even better when only scum know it's multiball, no?

Wait, so what you are telling me is that you want to apply a theory of scum detection in a multiball game to

this game

before we actually know that it's multiball while at the same time thinking someone is scum for saying it's multiball? A theory, which as you've described and applied it, demonstrates that you don't have a really good understanding of the theory, how to apply it, or how it takes more far more work to determine who does or doesn't fit the profile?

Regardless, it can't be applied right now anyway, so this is unproductive.

I’m really not understanding why not. It’s a simple thing. Those who began strongly are more likely town than those who began weakly. For example, say you were scum (not to say you’re not ) and got a PM with 2 other partners, thus assuming in a 28p game that obv there are other scum teams, would you begin the game strongly that benmage? Or just try to fit in the crowd and/or lurk or something? Depending on your answer, it might be different, but for me, I would def pull a Jal, Sala, Plum, Mockingjay, or Hyper.

This isn't actually true though. How someone begins a game can largely be a personality thing. I've begun games strong as scum and have been aggressive then tapered off. I've begun games as scum weakly and remained that way. I've begun town games weakly and gotten more involved over time. I've seen scum start a game very aggressively and remain that way. So, while I think, it might give you a working read on someone; I don't think it's something you can ascribe to very strongly. It's like the time you decided that scum were more likely to begin a game having fun and joking during the rvs stage because it would help them get a better handle on how to manipulate people in the serious stage, which led to you trying very hard to lynch a very innocent me for exhibiting that behavior.

Looking at how they began the game is fine, but don't drop it there because it's their behavior over the ensuing days that will solidify if that theory of your town reads can be applied to those people.

Dolorous Edd is very very likely to be town. His Post 14 is far more likely to come from town him than scum him, especially with the follow up "What do you guys think?"

I understand why some people have suspicions of him, but I haven't seen anything from him yet that raises any alarms

, and between him and his hydra partner, I'm pretty confident in my ability to get an accurate read on them in time.

Lyanna

, as far as i understand, that means that reasons, why some players suspect Dolorus Edd for, you don't see as suspicious. Can you list those reasons and explain why do you those suspicions are wrong? (ie you can read him better, so your input may help others)

Sure, Regfan and I have both discussed his meta in Post 425 and Post 436

---------------

Feysal

Can you explain for me your town read on MoI? Are you not the least bit paranoid?

Don't like that Amrun seemed really excited to replace in on Wednesday, but hasn't found time to say anything other than "need to catch up."

Likewise, Starbuck seems to be lurking out the early pressure on her by giving promise to catch up soon posts.

I'm pretty neutral on Greeknight right now. I don't

like

his posts but haven't found anything really alignment telling in them.

Still can't get to town SnowStorm. If I do move off the minimum wagon, this is the wagon I'll most likely join or choose.

Coming around to seeing Sala-scum. I thought earlier that he was just making some efforts to improve his play but there's a tension when he posts that doesn't feel town.

My town read on Plessiezarus is strengthening to a strong town read. I can sympathize with their leaning scum read on Tyene as I think I've read Tierce as scum in every single game we've played together, even when others are calling her obvtown, and I think the read they gave on her was well thought out and sincere. I don't know that I agree with it as I'm leaning town on Tyene right now, but I believe that they believe it.

That's it...gonna go pass out now.

[Starbuck]

Unfortunately a massive amount of stuff has been going on, between school, cars breaking down, impromptu girls night last night (where I ended up getting pretty damn drunk), hurricane preparedness today. I did want to give myself a day or so to simmer and be over the overdefensiveness, but then real life took over and kicked my ass. Apologies, I haz them.

My first order of business to find what I need to reply to then I plan to give a thorough re-read.

Benmage

I wish. Faradays too much a jerk to give me that much.

You and me, both.

Plessiezarus

Starbuck is claiming VT and choosing themselves. There's no "magical determination" involved in that plan.

QFT

Dolorous Edd

I feel like this is somehow aimed to please me?

Nothing of what was going on was aimed to "please you" at all. I don't think our disagreement makes you scummy. You feel differently about that (as you have with everything else that I said).

Umm, no, before she had picked herself, she had it in mind to send a VT.

And I wonder where I would have gotten that idea and voted for myself because of it?


Da fuck?

Post 354

Obv I have a scum read on Starbuck.

Post 368

Starbuck is Null

As a hydra, especially if one of the heads is calling for my head, you may wanna get on the same page. I'm just sayin....

Starbuck- You said first (before you picked yourself), that you would rather the Choice vig go in the hands of a VT. How did you expect to determine a person who is VT?

I know that I am a VT and that all I am is lynch fodder. So I hoped to do something useful.

Lyanna Stark

Think the argument with Starbuck is largely unproductive especially considering that my original assumption for what to do with the choose mirrors what she's suggested and I can't understand how that's being painted as scummy. I think she's gotten caught up a little too much in defending her stance and think they should both drop the issue because it's going nowhere.

I agree 100%. I realized I was kinda useless if I was just overdefensive all the time. Now, it seems I'll be in a perpetual state of catch up.

Also, I think it's fun that we have a Starbuck and someone with a totally different name but an av of Starbuck.

I usually stick with Starbuck avs, but sometimes, I like something else.

Tyene Sand

It just hit me now that Starbuck was trying to make sure that not only would we have the 'less bad' outcome from the Choosing from her PoV by picking a known VT, but also that the suicide vig wouldn't take up a PR action. I am not voting that slot, period.

Hammer-Nail.

Staeg

I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.

I've read this book series inside and out and have watched the show. I will be on a panel about it while I am at Dragon*Con this coming weekend. I will nameclaim when it is deemed necessary to do so (at L-1 or during mass claim, if I survive that long). There's absolutely no reason for me to reveal that now. I only came forth about my role because I felt (and still feel) the Choose should go to a VT to see it through on the town's wishes.

Why do you want Starbuck to nameclaim? Until she's in danger of being lynched, it's antitown. If she was at L-1, we'd want to hear her name and flavor, but until then, all it does is give more information to the scum.

And to the town. Why did she claim VT? Because she volunteered to be chosen. If she was getting chosen, why not nameclaim, and if not, why claim VT? The thing is, even if her name gives us nothing, her doing so (or in this case, not doing so) gives us info.

I think you want to know because you want your team to know who not to fakeclaim as. That's what I'm getting from this.

mockingjaye

I disagree that Starbuck’s self-choose was a super-town tell, mainly because of the timing. There wasn’t that much pressure on her at the time and it seems superfluous to defend her stance with a self-nom, especially given that the move comes across as entirely defensive.

Also, when she first brings up the preference for a town-suicide vig, she says nothing about preferring that townie to be a VT; instead, her position evolves over time, and therefore, her overall explanation of her preference comes across as less genuine and more crafted in response to ongoing criticism.

So, Starbuck, I have a few questions: 1) Why did you self-nom when you did; 2) Why did you subsequently claim when you did; 3) What do you think of the other early self-nominations (MoI and Ben)? 4) With seven votes on the wagon, a few hours into D1 when not everyone had even begun contributing, were you really that worried about getting lynched? And, 5) this is the VC in Post 77, made immediately after you claimed VT.
Eddard Stark wrote:
Starbuck (7) - Dolorous Edd, Tyene Sand Staeg, Minimum, Plum's Yo Mamma, Feysal, redFF
Do you think it is town or scum-driven, and what do you think about the individual people on it?

I self-nommed because the whole time that I was referring to a townie carrying out the action. I was referring to myself. I am still perfectly okay with being chosen to carry out the mission.

I claimed because I felt that it was necessary to get my point across.

I don't think they have a good reason for voting for themselves. They didn't give any reason why we should choose them.

I wasn't worried about getting lynched at all. We're on Day 1 of a huge game, it takes what? 15 votes to lynch? I really wasn't worried, but I had hoped for some Choose votes rather than lynch votes.

I definitely think my wagon is scum-driven. The only person, right now, that I think is even remotely town is Tierce. Now, I can definitely say that this opinion will change when I start going over everything thoroughly.




That's it for now. My eyelids are drooping. If I missed anything directed towards me that you want answered, let me know.

[StefanB]

So now I understand why Min didn't want to explain the PL.
Tierce: This line of discusion doesn't help a lot. You should remember when someone else pushed me in a PL. (I was scum in that game) It was very easy to get angry, which left people with a townread. (since that was very real rage)
I now know that policitylynches have chanced. I remember them as posibility for really bad players, now it seems more like whoever you don't like.

Tierce: Which sandsnake are you. I remember one beeing a septas daughter...

[Tyene Sand]

Apparently you don't get it, though, if you're assuming I'd policy lynch someone merely on the grounds of 'not liking' someone. No, I really think MoI is a bad player, and that doesn't have to do with not liking his style in particular. You don't PL for the latter, but the former is a valid reason if you think doing so will further the Town cause. I don't think it'd help us here as I have a townread on MoI and can mostly ignore him, thus preserving my own sanity.
Anyway...

The Sand Snake thing is pretty evident, no? Look at my username. Tyene is a Sand Snake and is the one who is a septa's daughter. How is this relevant?

[Plessiezarus]

Was your scum-read on Plum a figment of our imagination?

Yes.

#458 is totes townish (although I remember thinking it was bad before, probably a first impression type deal, that, which might go some way to explaining the miscommunication).

Thanks CES?. Or did Mina really take that vow of silence ? If you didn't

and that was just CES trying to take you out of the limelight

can you (Mina) walk us through your train of thought, though? I mean, seems only fair since you took from us the joy of reading your breakdown.

~Zar.

[Plessiezarus]

their attempt to get me to explain my town read on Tierce and then progression to continue to think she's mafia elaborating on their reasoning is very townie even though I think they're wrong on her (Like really really wrong,

Zar you should trust me on this read

and her defending town-reads is her town-meta). Simiarily I like the way they're trying to get more out of Edd but fairly sure he's town too (His explanation over his paranoia about me actually makes quite a bit of sense so I think you're pushing a dead end now).

You know Regfan, given my history with you, I'd like to say I would want to trust your read, but tbh there's a part of me that doesn't. Not because I've withdrawn my opnion on you being town (I don't find any of your contributions so far suspicious, and find many of my thoughts mirrored in yours, plus your continued attempt to get us both to reconsider our reads based on what you've exposed so far only reinforces my townish read on you), but it's mostly because of experiences I've had in games we've both been somehow involved in. Setting aside the disastrous astray of the town in the WoT game in Westeros, I've seen you defend reads you deem strong for weak reasoning before. Back in the Scummies you had Gaoth/Magua build up suspicion around me based on you knowing I prefer playing Scum over Town. I kept following your case on obvTown Johhog on the TM Mountainous: it spun around a comment from Isa -from outside game- in which he had mentioned he was excited about playing the White Flag (and then you coming to find Johhog in his stead). So yeah, when I find that we either don't agree or we're not following along with your reasoning to a read, I prefer asking for an explanation to see where the difference is coming from, and then do my own discernment.

As far as Edd goes, the heads behind that Hydra are somewhat erractic and their logic is not normally straightforward, regardless of alignment. I'd advise you (and others) not to automatically shelve them as town just because the hydra is talkative and posting a lot. Arthur and Alek are both always chatty/high activity, overeager players and Alek has actually been lying comparatively low in this game. Him not having stepped up to the playground even when Arthur has claimed indefinite V/LA, and has done little to engage in the hunt leaving the bulk to Arthur is uncharacteristic of him.

~Zar.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sala: If you think MoI is scum then choose him. Who cares if he would shoot you if you catch a scumbag?

But I just said MoI is probtown, which is why I don't want him to shoot me.

Something about this post doesn't sit right with my gut. Hrmmm...

[StefanB]

Tierce: Okay, so we can agree that talking about PL someone you see as town can stopp, okay?
Sorry that makes me wary, because that is hurtful and somethink I general misstrust.
About the policitylynch I am still suprised, because I had MoI in my list of good players, so disagree.

About the namequestion: I am not that great with names, so I asked just out of couriosity and lazyness. (Yepp I could have looked that up, but don't have Crown at hand and follishly thought, that the glosar probably didn't have that much info) So yeah for gameporpuse usless question, that I thought couldn't hurt. I didn't know which of the snakes Tyenne was.
I thought that was obvious. So why the question back.
If you can find any other motive that makes sense, be my guest.

PEdit:
MoS:

Read 681 with it. Will probably not make your gut feel better, but it's part of it.

Sala:

Since I assume that you know that the one we give a vig to dies, why do you want to give it to a nullread and as second coice a townread?
The second point is perhaps just nitpicking is your town/scumlist in order of how sure you are they are town/scum
So you are most sure that MoI is town and Hyperion is scum?

[Minimum]

I almost cried when I hit preview and saw the length of this thing, so I'm breaking this up into two posts so I look less rambly. And this was supposed to be the post where I just went, "Okay, I'm back, and I'll respond to most of you in a bit.," too.

Plessiezarus, Mina didn't actually take a vow of silence, but she still hasn't discovered how to post on mafiascum when she sleeps (which she did when she got home last night). And now, Mina will stop referring to herself in the third person.

I'm not really sure where the confusion is. I called Plum null and possible competent scum, then she posted #458, and then I cryptically call her "no longer null." But I meant she was town, not scum. I explained why in the post you linked to:

2) Since people keep bugging me about it...my "null" read was changed to slight town, because although I found the argument itself nitpicky, her thought process and her reference to discussions with Nacho looked real. (I find I usually dislike Plum's cases--not so much that she suspects the wrong people, just that her reasons for suspecting whom she does always seem alien to me). But I wasn't confident on it, and didn't really want to give her a gold star immediately after she'd posted words. Just calling her town for posting a fairly generic post would be making her feel comfortable for no reason. And I don't know, I was kind of hoping it might provoke some reaction from the slot.

(CES is right that he initially disliked the post, but he never mentioned it in the thread, just discussed it with me on AIM.)

Also, why didn't someone tell me earlier that the most protown thing I could have done this game would have been to stop wasting my time scumhunting rationally and just throw temper tantrums and vicious personal attacks at people? I'd have had a lot more fun. Believe it or not, I'm not

always

an irrational screaming nutjob, and sometimes I make a conscious effort

not

to be so as to make the thread less unpleasant. Off the top of my head, "half" and "five times bitchier" were exaggerations, but what I deleted from that post was 1) a more strongly-worded version of the MoI grudge-lynching accusation, 2) something along of the lines of "Oh, I bet someone is going to vote me for being overdefensive or appealing to emotion for this. And someone else for looking 'too concerned with appearances.' And someone else will go, 'oh, you also faked being angry in the First Law game, so FOS: Minimum," and 3) a couple of variations of "go fuck yourself/ves."

However, right now, I'm feeling a lot more reasonable and composed than I did Saturday night, because now there are people in the game who don't hate me, so I don't particularly feel like being crazy and emotional just for your personal entertainment. Tell MagnaofIllusion to say something like "Minimum is scum because they'd never want to policy-lynch a player who won Best Newbie back in 2011!" if you want more

amusement

insightful glimpses into my alignment.

Actually, I'll probably regret this, but two questions for MoI. Do you believe:

1) Minimum's policy-choosing you right out of the gate, as well as not explaining to people

why

we chose you, was a scumtell? You seem to keep implying it was.
2) Tierce is scummy, given that you felt the need to chime in and go, "Oh, don't listen to people telling you Tierce looks town--you should NEVER trust meta on her."

[Minimum]

In other news, I have the overpowering urge to run off with Tierce and elope with her. Also, thanks for

insulting

interacting with MoI so that I don't have to. (The obvtown thing hit close to home, although it's a mix of that and "You can fake any towntell you're making as scum--but no, you still suck as scum, sorry--so why shouldn't we lynch you?", "These CES posts don't sound anything like town!Mina," "this throwaway question you asked on page two, which is possibly the nullest thing anyone could say, is so scummy that we need no other information than that for us to lynch you, and I'll spam the game with empty meaningless rhetoric pretending it was a meaningful scumtell," and just generic "YOU GUYS AREN'T ALLOWED TO MISLYNCH ME!" rage.)

I'll concede a meta point to Regfan/greenknight/Tammy (not to MoI, as my apology to singer--although I felt bad about it because I knew it'd make her suspect us less--was entirely sincere, because he WAS being a huge dick to her and Sevei for "strategic" reasons) that I'd make a "You all suck!" post as scum and have done so before, just because it'd be so out of character for me to casually accept being a D1 mislynch. Don't clear me based on the fact that I wrote one at all. I don't think my scum rage (genuine or fake) hits the same notes as my town rage, though.

Honestly, what bothers me the least about greenknight is his stance on voting. Yes, it's a convenient vote for scum, but I can believe he thinks it's good theory to put his vote on me now and potentially move it later once the wagon sparks reactions (it did lead to reactions, in all fairness). What worries me more is that he'd devoted a lot of breath to saying no one should unvote me or treat me as town, when his vote on me was apparently just a bandwagon vote based on our page two posts (and he misrepresented those posts badly, as CES already explained--WTF does "muddying the waters" even

mean

?). Have you actually started catching up with the game, greenknight? Have you read any of our posts in the middle of the game? Who are your suspects right now?

(I think it's somewhat disingenuous of Tammy to claim that we weren't in serious danger, particularly because of a bunch of people who replaced out AFTER that post and who, if anything, would make the game stagnate more--fine, not GUARANTEED to be lynched, just really, really, really fucking likely to get lynched? I was more worried about the wagon than I was letting on, but thought people would eventually just see I was town--or at least, more likely to be town than scum--and move onto actual substantial cases because the original premise of the wagon was so silly and flimsy.)

[Shadow1psc]

(I think it's somewhat disingenuous of Tammy to claim that we weren't in serious danger, particularly because of a bunch of people who replaced out AFTER that post and who, if anything, would make the game stagnate more--fine, not GUARANTEED to be lynched, just really, really, really fucking likely to get lynched? I was more worried about the wagon than I was letting on, but thought people would eventually just see I was town--or at least, more likely to be town than scum--and move onto actual substantial cases because the original premise of the wagon was so silly and flimsy.)

Welcome to day 1. I like swords.

[bvoigt]

So after ISO'ing minimum, I'll state that I think he's most likely scum or lazy ass town. His first part of the game doesn't help at all. Starbucks vote wasn't that good, neither was the snowstorm vote that was then swapped in his next post to salamence who he appears to have been on all game. After he voted on salamence his posts seem small and not too helpful and he doesn't do much till about post #323 where mina specifically posts and then again at #446 and #455 where I guess he started to feel pressured by the votes to do something. I don't like the majority of his responses to players though.

This case reads as contrived to me. Actually, I'm not quite sure why most of the people on the Minimum wagon are voting them. They're still pretty much null to me.

Plessie's case in #653 didn't really convince me that Tyene is scum, but it did convince me that Plessie is town. Dolorous Edd is probable town, too.

Oh yeah, this game.

Time for moar updated lists!!!

Spoiler: Salamence's reads.

Town:
MoI
Pandora
Tyene
Edd
Cow
Lyanna
Molla
Starbuck
Pless
Stefan
Salamence20
Regfan

Null:
Benmage
Staeg
Plum
Jal
Feysal
Pappums
SoO
MoS
Mocking
BV
RedFF
Petyr

Scum:
Minimum
Shadow
Snowstorm
Hyperion

Yeah... nothing has really changed.

Literally, nothing has changed since #433? Out of 250 posts, not a single one has seemed like any sort of alignment-tell? I don't buy that. Salamence is not making any sort of effort to scumhunt. He's not asking questions or making cases. All he's doing is sitting on the sidelines. There's no town motivation to find the scum here; the scum motivation is that he's trying to avoid notice. He said himself that "posting alot makes me scummy," so he knows that if he stays in the background, he won't attract as much suspicion.

[Shadow1psc]

the scum motivation is that he's trying to avoid notice. He said himself that "posting alot makes me scummy," so he knows that if he stays in the background, he won't attract as much suspicion.

Serious question, not like, sarcasm or mockery ala my previous posts, but have you played with Salamence before?

[bvoigt]

Nope....

[Shadow1psc]

Mina, I'm not so afraid of a shitty vig shot if shadow is chosen to be the assassin. After he's chosen and before the lynch is reached, he will have plenty of players giving him advice on who to shoot, and I'm sure he will not stubbornly shoot Cow or MoI if we yell at him not to. Luckily it doesn't matter cuz he's scum, so.

I'm gonna go ahead and comment on this, but I'll say two things;

1) I'm not being chosen or lynched today.

2) Even if I was, with an unblockable vig shot, I would shoot one of the two of those players regardless of what anyone else said in thread.