A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Saporerint]

Oh. I had thought it was daily. Nevermind, then.

- Iec

[Benmage]

This reads town to me:

And the languagebarrier is only my fault, not yours.

If it is to difficult I will replace out

. (Yes that was about her scumread on me)

Vote shadow now.

[Starbuck]

Unvote
Unchoose

I'm sorry for being so far behind and working press for Dragon*Con did not help one bit.

I'm not sure when I'll be able to catch up, so I think its best to ask for a replacement.

[Lyanna Stark]

Contributing day one is subjective. Consider: we've made the same number of votes this day. Just because you feel like wall posting doesn't give your posts any more weight than mine. Also, nice fishing.

So so so tired of Shadow doing nothing but sniping from the sidelines. Like really, I suppose according to Post 724 he's got some magnificent ~role~ he knows will keep him off the lynch/choose wagon but does that mean we have to be subjected to an entire game full of sniping/cutesy gifs/gloating type posts??? Like seriously, can we just lynch/choose him and be done with it? Please???

This shoulda been quoted in the last post*

I'd like for you to point out a couple of things for me.

1). When did I ever make a claim that the amount of votes a person makes in a day is important, or that voting more is contributing more (hint: you can't...so this was a pointless rebuttal.)

2.). When did I ever say that wall posting is more contributing than not wall posting? (hint: you can't because it's not even something I implied.).

Your contribution has been lacking not due to lack of words in one post but because the majority of your "content" has been in the form of sniping from the sidelines with a very strange affected attitude that I've often see scum take, include cutesy gifs that appear more to antagonize the people you're responding to, and defense of your non contribution.

I've also noticed a trend of yours to instead of just answer for yourself to make comparisons like here, Ina weird stretching way. I didn't say anything about votes or walls, but talked about what I didn't like about your contribution, and you tried to turn the attack around on me by adding elements I didn't consider. The "how can you say I've been doing xyz, so have you...I have more posts than you do, etc" is something I've often see scum do to try to make the attacks appear inaccurate.

Oh you're good, you caught me, that was a total role fish. If you actually believe that you should feel offended that I thought you were so insanely stupid that you'd out your potential role to me because of that post. But since I don't think you're a moron, and since I haven't treated you like a moron in the games we've played together, then I know you know that wasn't role fishing and was just more of the sniping you've been doing during the game.

[Lyanna Stark]

Note for the record how Minimum's activity (specifically the Mina half) has dropped off since the pressure on them abated.

In the sign up thread Mina said that a large game wasn't the best idea for her right now and that ces would be doing most of the posting.

[Pandora]

Oh man are we actually doing it? Are we making it hapen?

CHOOSE: DLCXVI

Let's save Faraday some of them replaccement blues! HAHA QUILFORD THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR SLEEPING

Re: Sshadow1 asfdgk but he's TOWN. He has the attitude, it just doesn't feel right!

[Lyanna Stark]

What does asfdgk mean? I googled and couldn't find it

[Pandora]

Did you seriously google it >_>
It means I am bashing my hands on the keyboard hitting random letters out of frustration for not being able to explain FEELINGS

[Lyanna Stark]

Ah...I can understand that as I can identify with it quite well. And yeah, I looked it up. I don't use much IM speak so I'm often a bit lost when people do. :p

[Benmage]

Re: Sshadow1 asfdgk but he's TOWN. He has the attitude, it just doesn't feel right!

The bvoigt lynch is terribad.

[Saporerint]

40 pages done.

Short version:

I think Plum's case on bvoight was a misrepresentation (e.g., accusations of active-lurking). That said, later on I think bvoight stuck to his Sala read with more tenacity than I'd expect given, for example, DE linking Kingdom Hearts with intent to show SalaVI. DCL is overly defensive. Shiori/Hyperion seems more interested in reporting reads than in explaining them clearly. MoS seemed to get a little more into things toward the end of the day, and I read him a little more positively.

It's a little goofy that the lead wagons became bvoight, because he pushed SalaVI, and the Sala wagon itself. XD

NOTE SET 3 -- FROM PAGE 26

Shinori's entry post does nothing to change my read of Hyperion's slot (636).

MoS finally does something productive, votes Shinori. Don't remember whether he made any comments about Hyperion, though (638).

HYDRAS SIGN YOUR POSTS GOD (643). This felt all wrong until I realized it probably wasn't Mina.

Kortul used to be...Baelish, who never did anything.

I guess Tyene's "embarrassing slip" is referring to a deleted doublepost (659)?

I am so thrilled by Plessie's use of the term "proper subset" (677).

DCL is pretty null so far (705).

OK, now we're getting into bvoightWagon. It looks like Plum made a big, hyperbolic case (746). I can kinda see where she's coming from on the Starbuck question, but I that's a much more trivial point than she's construing it to be. I had the same WTF response when I read the Staeg post in question, and I think the basis of suspicion of our predecessor was fine, though I'm maybe disproportionately sensitive to weird things Salamance did as I read through. I find Plum's various "bvoight was just trying to put out content" claims disingenuous, though. Bvoight's posts have been clear and concise, unlike the unreadable walls put out by most of the active players in the game. I'm pretty null on greenknight as I readthrough (I know he's likely town from the Mason claim, though), so that mini-case doesn't bother me as much.

Minimum joins the greenknightCHOOSE wagon without elaboration/discussion/SIGNATURE. UGH.

Shinori suddenly has a scum read on bvoight "without going into detail." If Plum ever flips scum, I would look extra hard at Hyperion/Shinori (750).

Plessie's post responses to Shinori's listed reads (760). It shows why the bvoight read seemed to come out of nowhere to me -- Shinori (with lots of confusing pronouns) says that Starbuck (I think? even though Starbuck is a female)'s scumflip would make my predecessor town and bvoight scum.

Tierce likes Plum's post for some reason (770). I guess it did show some close, but I'm surprised she didn't find the direction off-putting. It looks like she only joins greenknightCHOOSE, though, so maybe that was the part she liked.

DE's meta-scum post on Jal is worth my revisiting, but probably not until tomorrow (794).

DCL's first real post has really funky reads (804). Shadow and MoI are town, Benmage and Tierce are suspicious, Feysal is scum for having a "neutral playstyle" (???). It's hard to evaluate it because we only get little mini-explanations of the reasons. He sheeps DE on Jal meta-scum.

Is this mockingjaye's first post (EDIT: 2nd)? It looks like she was near the hurricane....It looks pretty null to me, I guess. It's not clear why Shinori gets on the scumlist (EDIT: Hyperion got a big section before), but I suppose it doesn't bother me much.

I'm guessing the crazy Lyanna-BB back-and-forth is what makes Lyanna town (863ish)? I'm not convinced it says anything about her alignment yet.

OK, 876 reads town, though.

RegFan disputes DE's meta scumtell on Jal (877).

DCL is overdefensive (881). EDIT: Tierce picks up on it (882).

Don't think DE responds to RegFan's meta scumtell dispute...

Feysal's inactivity is getting really noticeable.. O.o

Hmm. Bvoight's 957 is the first one that makes me feel a little shaky. After everyone has pointed out how Sala was a VI (e.g., DE's direct link to Kingdom Hearts), I might have expected a little reflection from Bvoight here. I also don't like his take on DCL's catch-up post, which I thought had REALLY bizarre reads. It looks like he dislikes DCL's subsequent posts, though.

SnowStorm claims Mason (972).

MoS has shown flashes of towniness toward the latter part of the 40 page readthrough.

I like Feysal's comeback post (991), but I'd prefer more scumread information. All we really get is Shinori and DE.

I'm going to go ahead and hammer out the last 10 pages, make an updated list, and go to bed.

@ Benmage -- I'll consult with Sapo, and we'll make a decision. I think offering to replace out is pretty null, though IIRC Stefan wasn't under much scrutiny back then, which does make it hinge town a little IMO. Shadow had a little burst of activity in the first 15 pages somewhere that I remember getting some vaguely positive feelings from, but it came after scrutiny related to his playstyle, so I'm ambivalent about those positive feelings, and the rest of my Shadow impressions have been negative.

[Lyanna Stark]

Can those who vote bvoigt explain,

why he is more scummy than Salamance20 (or why Salamance20 is town for you, if that's the case)? If this is meta based, are there clear examples of bvoigt!scum or Salamance!town that you can link to?

I don't do meta research on people, so I don't know about sala scum, but here's an example of a recently complete scum bvoigt game for reference if you like meta http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22540. (in case that didn't paste properly, it's leprechaun mafia in little Italy.

[Lyanna Stark]

I realize you're looking to get a read no me, but feigning ignorance just annoys me

How ironic.

[Feysal]

Another mason. Oh great. Well, it adds up. My problem with SnowStorm having been too passive and not even sheeping or supporting his partner is easily explained by his original partner having gone AWOL.

Unchoose: greenknight

Feysal, could you give me an overview of your reads?

You don't ask little things, do you?

TOWN

Lyanna Stark

I should not even need to explain this, but she strongly reminds me of her town play in the game we played.

Mockingjaye

I remember some people voicing suspicion of her, but I don't see why. She also reminds me of past town games, and she made a strong entrance post. She has been missing, but that is understandable due to the hurricane scare.

MagnaofIllusion

I think I've said before that he is never obvtown, since I've seen him called that in every scum game of his I've been in, but I think he is town in this game. I don't expect him to live long enough that I'd have to second guess myself.

Plum's Yo Mamma

I've liked their contributions, and seen a glimpse or two of the inner workings of their hydra, and they looked convincing. I would like to know the status of their Shinori read though. They had a scum read on Hyperion, but that sort of disappeared after Shinori replaced in.

Regfan

Strong entrance and good thoughts, which I've come to expect from him as town.

Plessiezarus

Reads as strong town for scumhunting and questioning other players.

Pandora

Simply put, I agree on the hydra dissonance making them town. In addition, I liked how relaxed Shadoweh sounded to me.

BBmolla

Relaxed town, seems very unlike his scum self, seems unconcerned with what others think of him or his ideas.

SnowStorm

greenknight

Masons.

LEANING TOWN

Minimum

Not obvtown, but not suspicious to me either. I'm content to wait and see how their play develops.

Tyene Sand

I think our disagreements are settled now, and I ended up with a town feel from her responses to me.

Dolorous Edd

I had them as null very long, or as possible scum by process of elimination, but their response to my desire to kill them seemed clearly town to me.

kortul

He seems to be progressing systematically at reading and establishing reads, and I like that as probable town.

Shinori

I liked the point about them becoming a hydra, and especially admitting the new head had played mafia before and offering meta.

StefanB

He looks like confused town, and him catching and correcting his own mistakes indicates that he is trying to figure things out.

Benmage

He seems to be acting like his usual, undeservedly arrogant self. I don't like how he once called me town and later called me a good choice, but sadly that is nothing new to him. I remember the incident where he deliberately voted one of his town reads.

Saporerint

I know Salamence was suspected for the way he jumped on me, but I've seen him do the same and flip town cop. I also had a thought about his walls - they are neither in alphabetical or signup order, or any other order I could determine. That suggests he would have been moving the names around trying to work out where they belonged, which would mean scumhunting. On Saporerint I have nothing yet.

NULL

Staeg

Apart from his questionable vote on kortul, I don't remember anything he has said or done this game. Need to look into.

Albert B. Rampage

Neither he or his predecessor has done enough to base a meaningful read on.

Shadow1psc

I don't actually find him all that suspicious. He has been attacked all day for not scumhunting enough, and he has not made any effort to appease the town, nor has he reacted aggressively, like I would expect from him as scum.

Seraphim

I liked pappum's entry post, but that is pretty much all the content we ever got from this slot.

Mastermind of Sin

I have no idea how to read him when he is acting like this.

Jal

He is pretty much a non-entity to me, as nothing has caught my attention that I could remember.

LEANING SCUM

bvoigt

He has twice attacked my case on Starbuck, and me through it, which does not please me in the least. I still need to finish that ISO though, I haven't been able to do that yet.

DCLXVI

I view redFF as a village idiot and basically unreadable. As for DCLXVI, I hated his choose on me for being too neutral. I don't even know what he means by that.

SCUM

Starbuck

Not going to explain this again now, I've done so often enough.

@

Feysal

- so what is your opinion on current Vote wagons (you mentioned you are going to ISO bvoigt)? And what wagons are you willing to support?

I have the bvoigt ISO still on my to-do list, but I am inclined to vote him rather than the Sapporo Ice Rink.

Choose: DCLXVI

[Saporerint]

FINALLY DONE GOD CHRIST.

Short version:

Major reads recapitulated. I think I'm town on Kortul now -- I was suspicious of his requests for players to re-explain the bvoight wagon, but his eventual personal effort on that front dealt with my fears a little, along with his subsequent content. Shinori has become my wet-dream D1 lynch. Feysal's iso on greenknight was awful; I take back everything nice I said about him. I still think the original wagon on him was bad, though.

NOTE SET 4 -- From page 41

Note to come back to Benmage's SnowStorm wagon in a big way (1033). Jal and Shinori look like likely scum, and Jal-scum would basically clear DE.

Jal does the comprehensive self-meta thing to answer DE's meta scumtell claim (1045).

Kortul middle-of-the-roads Bvoight, requests additional explanation of Bvoight scumtells (1074). If Kortul is scum, Bvoight is not his scumfriend.

Kortul pushes Shadow...makes me uncomfortable in light of the above (1081).

I just realized that Nacho must be the other half of Plum. <_< (1089). Also, RegFan seems to have a very strong townread on Kortul. I don't share it, but it makes me feel less uneasy about 1081....

God, Shinori is so scum (1093). SO SCUM.

ABR is HASDFDSA (1104). I came a little.

MoS has really kicked the townie into high gear the last 5 pages or so.

Tierce thinks Kortul is town (1117).

Bummer about Amrun replacing out.

Stefan is so scummy (1050). This is just marginally less bad than Shinori's post.

Kortul's vote for bvoight is the least-bad of this set of votes for Bvoight (1152).

I agree with Benmage about Feysal's green-night iso. This REEKS of self-protection. This in fact overrides my leaning town read on Feysal altogether. It's probably the most egregious thing I have seen as of page 47 or whatever, and this has been a thread with egregious things (1165).

TOWN
Staeg
Tyene Sand (Tierce)
Kortul
RegFan
GreenKnight
Bvoight
Benmage
MoS
Plessie
MoI
Cow/ABR
Pandora
Saporerint
Starbuck
BBMolla
Snowstorm

AMBIVALENCE
Minimum
LyannaStark (Tammy)
mockingjaye
DolorousEdd
Plum's Yo Mamma
Seraphim
Jal

SCUM
Shinori
DCL
Shadow
Feysal
StefanB

Now I am going to sleep with my pouting boyfriend.

[Lyanna Stark]

For the choice: I am leaning

Feysal

at the moment, but for him and

Greenknight

: Who do you plan to shot at the moment, would you be okay, wich town directing you?

Does who they say they would choose a determining factor in our choice?

[Lyanna Stark]

Your choice*

Sorry..late...tired...ipad

[Saporerint]

I guess there's no use splitting hairs over it. Shadow is a viable wagon that I like. It's also a fundamentally non-tragic mislynch.

Unvote; Vote: Shadow

Choose:

Shadow

Feysal

My lynch preferences at this point are

1) Shinori 2) Stefan 3) Shadow 4) DCL

. I'm also no longer going to fight over Feysal as the Chosen wagon; I think his greenknight iso was terrible, and I think townFeysal would know better than to iso his alternawagon in a huge game like this, as it's just begging for confirmation bias errors.

I'll confer with Sapo to see if she disagrees with me in a big way about anything. I'll check the thread periodically to check for any 11th hour Shinori wagons.

- Iec

[Regfan]

I continue to dislike this growing Feysal choose wagon, him ISOing someone and stating reasoning on them before moving his vote to them even if it's the counter-wagon towards him is something he'd do regardless of his alignment really because he's not one for reason-less voting. I agree with nearly all of his town-reads and think his obsession with Starbuck is somewhat of a town-tell and actually do think there's a chance she's scum even after her VT claim. Really not getting the case or reasoning behind the votes on him at all DCL is a significantly better choose vote so those stating they have him as scum should be moving to him.

Benmage, I don't find Post 522 a town-tell from Stefan, he wasn't going to be asked to replace out and he would have known that much so it's an empty statement.

Right now I'm at about:

Strong Town Reads:

Pandora, Edd, Tyene, Pless, Lyanna, MoI, Benmage, ABR, Molla, Kortul, SnowStorm, Greenknight, Sapor.

Weaker Town Reads:

Staeg, Shadow, Jal, Feysal, MoS, Bvoigt, Mockingjaye.

Null Reads:

Shinori, Amrun, Starbuck.

Scum Reads:

Minimum, Stefan, DCL, Plum.

With the strong town reads being super super super strong. Please let at least one of the scum reads pool die at the end of today though.

[Lyanna Stark]

Side note: My read on Staeg has completely flopped and now I am leaning scum on him.

Still prefer the salamaence/whoever replaced him's lynch. And Choosing feysal is fine with me.

Why, why and why?

[Lyanna Stark]

I put BB in the town column on gut from his page 1 jokeclaim post and have stuck with it without any hiccups. Looking through his iso, the only other moment I remember standing out is when he posted constructively about SS's flavor-spec (195), and SS's response to that made me reinterpret SS's original flavor-spec more
- Iecerint

Why do you think tht giving someone a town read based on gut is meaningful, yet say that someone's reasons (ie...me) for voting someone because their posts make them feel twitchy is a lot of nothing?

[Lyanna Stark]

Okay, I'm relatively new to closed or theme games here. I've read up safenames on the wiki, but I wasn't aware of mods giving out safe

role claims

. Is this common? .

I think it's relatively common. In mafia behind the maiden and kingdom hearts fake/safe claims were given. I've never played in a faraday-modded game here so I don't know if he does it differently, but I've played a game he modded elsewhere and he had the roles assigned randomly so that no one could be cleared solely due to role though. I still think this is an issue that will work itself out in time though.

[Lyanna Stark]

Read post 895. Stay away from the wagon.

I like your defense of replacement strategy, but you're applying what you would do to someone else and thats dangerous. I've seen s um replace in and jump in just like dcl, so it's not a great town tell. Heck in otherworld, I replaced in as scum, barely skimmed a couple pages and started talking.

[Lyanna Stark]

Sorry for the spam...caught up though. I need to ISo bvoigt, shadow, feysal and Sao tomorrow. Well I don't necessarily need to ISP sapo as I have some things to say about the replacement, but too tired to do it right now.

I think that's all though I thik I'm forgetting something...tomorrow though.

Would easily change to a seraphim wagon at the moment.

Choose dcl

[mockingjaye]

Minimum:

So, CES, why did you write Post 844, because those were all points I had addressed to Mina and I really would prefer to hear

her

response to at least the first two of them.

The answers to your questions in that post

:
1. Yes, I do. You both know MoI well enough to know he's definitely not emo, nor is he concerned with other people's opinions of him. Mina saying something like that reads more like she's making something up to try to justify disengaging from her earlier stance on him due to his self-nom.
2. No, I didn't read it as genuine. I took that up with her in my first post, though, so I'm not sure why you asked me this.
3. It was a little late, but it was still an attempt to undo or at least mitigate some of the damage caused by her outburst.

I'm not happy that Mina handed off responsibility for answering my questions to CES and never brought them up when she was posting again. I think it proves the point made by MoI in Post 1024 and confirms my scum read on them.

Edd:

First, you only got a whole post all to yourself because I broke up a much longer post into three to make it easier to deal with. The summary at the end of Post 811 is for all three of those posts, which I stated at the beginning of Post 809, so I wasn't just making a post about you and then choosing someone else out of thin air. You maybe should have read all of my posts rather than just the one with your name on it.

Second, I Chose Shadow rather than Voting him because his was one of three Choose wagons with a few votes on them at the time, and I was hoping his would pick up again. He was also the first of my suspects that I was done talking to, so I had no problem going on and Choosing him. It also makes no sense that I would wait to Choose a solid scum read just so I could cast that vote at the same time that I Voted.

Third, in response to your accusations, I read everything. It was the dissonance created by Alek's first few posts as well as your reluctance to answer questions that put me on your case in the first place, and while those were the reasons I said that I wanted to look at you in Post 514, they aren't why I ultimately decided you were scum.

Regarding my scum read on you, yes, I did reference certain things brought up by others via questioning in order to provide context for my points, but the

crux

of my argument against you (which you seem to have missed or ignored) in Post 811 is primarily based on Arthur’s

answers

to those questions because I think his answers reveal that he is way too worried about being perceived as town which is a huge red flag to me. I don't think someone who is town and who is not under pressure (and you weren't) is going to feel a need to keep telling everyone else they are town, but I do think someone who is scum would feel an underlying tension in trying to appear town all the time and could therefore feel some sort of compulsion to stress how town they are.

To add to that, since my last post, there have been a couple of times where Arthur has again asserted that you're town, and taken in context with the things I've already pointed out, I think those posts are just more examples of Arthur being worried about people thinking he really IS scum, especially given the "tee-hee I'm scum" included in each. For reference, those posts are Post 887 and Post 1189.

I also have some questions for you.

1) Why is Regfan now on your “Town Forever and Ever” list as of Post 885?
2) The last time you mentioned Minimum was Post 1015. Do you have a solid read on that slot yet? Please explain.


___________

I've been playing catch-up for most of this day, and for that I apologize. Circumstances have just been so out of my control and my mind has been everywhere but this game.

My strongest scum reads are definitely on Shadow, Minimum, and Edd, and as a result I've spent most of my time on them and a bit less time on Shinori and Starbuck. I'm still reviewing bvoigt, Feysal, DCL, and Saporo, but I have to get to sleep now. I know it's cutting it short, but I will get back to the game later today.

Unchoose: Shadow

Vote: Shadow

Choose: Minimum