A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Eddard Stark]

Varamyr, better known as Varamyr Sixskins, is a diminutive wildling and a skinchanger who participated in Mance Rayder's assault on the Wall. He controls three wolves, a snow bear, and a shadowcat. He was known as Lump until he took his new name.

Day 2, Votecount 5

bvoigt (7) - Dolorous Edd, Staeg, Benmage, Shadow1psc Mastermind of Sin, Shinori, kortul

Not Voting (17):

Minimum, Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Tyene Sand, MagnaofIllusion, Plums Yo Mamma, Magua, Regfan, Zdenek, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, Feysal, Pandora, Saporerint, Starbuck, BBmolla, Jal

With 24 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 22nd September at 00:39am Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-21 19:39:47)
  
• MagnaofIllusion is V/la

[kortul]

Since i proposed the idea, i am ok with Shinori request, obviously. That gives us the perfect way to preserve the information he got until tomorrow.

[Tyene Sand]

Okay, I might be dense or something, but why do we want to preserve Shinori until tomorrow via jailing? Wouldn't it be a better idea for him to claim his result

now

and then we act on his results tomorrow?

It just seems a waste of a mechanic that might help us avoid a night-kill, because if we decide on it in public, scum will just kill someone else. And for what? Shinori reads townish, and that "I have something important to talk about" seemed townish as well, but frankly if the alternative is for him to be the jail target, I'd just rather he outed his info now and the jailing be kept private.


Zdenek--I'll come back to you; I'm starting a game session at the moment.

[Tyene Sand]

...except our DM is the slowest thing that ever slowed and it will probably be 40 minutes until my turn. So.

Explain how me being suspicious of you is scummy, how your read on Feysal developed and, while i asked this in one of my longer posts I'll repeat it here, why you thought bvoigt was town at the end of the day.

Because the way you're talking about your suspicion of me (and other people) seems to have skips of logic that don't make sense as something that is not deliberate misrepresentation. I might get back to you with more detail.

My read on Feysal changed somewhat after I checked his meta and I realized that he doesn't know my play as much as he appears to in the way he posts--there is a lot of conviction there that "this is how townTierce would act" that is then not reflected in his actual knowledge of me--we've played together only a few times, and while I have read a few games of his, the reverse hasn't apparently happened. Knowing that he doesn't have this meta-info tones down my scumread on Feysal, because I originally thought he was deliberately misrepresenting my actions.

As for bvoigt, no matter how useless, this felt pretty honest at the time:

You seem to be one of the few people, if not the only person, to suspect Starbuck. What makes shooting her a better idea than shooting someone who you have a weaker scumread on, but also is more of a consensus choice as scum?

He's only saying this so people can stay away from his wagon.

But it doesn't really matter, since he's scum, etc.

Also, how do you feel about being lynched? Since you know, there is no wagon near yours, and there is a very very high percent that there won’t be in the next 2-3 days.

Ignoring suspicion won't just magically make it go away.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I asked if anyone had questions for me, and have been trying to contribute. But anyway, there seems to be enough support for a Shadow lynch. I'm not really convinced he's scum, but....

UNVOTE: Saporerint
VOTE: Shadow1

It had a sense of genuine frustration. Yes, I was pissed off that this post shows a complete lack of contribution, but the bit about

admitting

he didn't think the Shadow-wagon was right and yet voting it felt pretty honest.

[Minimum]

Okay, I might be dense or something, but why do we want to preserve Shinori until tomorrow via jailing? Wouldn't it be a better idea for him to claim his result now and then we act on his results tomorrow?

It just seems a waste of a mechanic that might help us avoid a night-kill, because if we decide on it in public, scum will just kill someone else. And for what? Shinori reads townish, and that "I have something important to talk about" seemed townish as well, but frankly if the alternative is for him to be the jail target, I'd just rather he outed his info now and the jailing be kept private.

Shinori has already suggested that whether to share the info wasn't such an obvious decision. I don't particularly feel like making that decision for him. The jailing thing isn't that good anyway.

[kortul]

Well, Tyene, we have no idea what exactly Shinori is talking about, so i have just two practical questions.

First, how do you propose to force him to talk? (aside from obvious "we won't jail you")

And second, if we will act on results tomorrow, isn't it better to hear them tomorrow, to prevent scum from possible discussions on this information during the night, and from altering their night actions based on the information.

Though, Shinori, if your information may be important for town roles to do something this night, maybe think again about revealing it.

[Zdenek]

Because the way you're talking about your suspicion of me (and other people) seems to have skips of logic that don't make sense as something that is not deliberate misrepresentation. I might get back to you with more detail.

This has to be the slipperiest wording I have ever seen. If you want to accuse me misrepresenting something, do it with examples. This Zdenek doesn't look like he's not misrepresenting people is bullshit. The fact that you are trying to paint me as scummy with this shit is another reason you need to die.

Knowing that he doesn't have this meta-info tones down my scumread on Feysal, because I originally thought he was deliberately misrepresenting my actions.

Which actions?

Reads, in no particular order within the categories:

Town:
Shinori
Shadow1psc
Plessiezarus (Zar/Plessiez)
Pandora (Shadoweh/Quilford)

Leaning Town:
Lyanna Stark (Tammy)
Dolorous Edd (Ser Arthur Dayne/bodean44)
kortul
MagnaofIllusion
Plum's Yo Mamma (Nacho/Plum)
Feysal
Mockingjaye

Null:
Starbuck
Jal - actually she looked pretty good on the last page.
Regfan
Benmage

Leaning scum:
Minimum (Mina/CES)
Staeg
Magua
Saporerint (Iecerint/Saporovirus)
BBmolla

Scum
Bvoigt - obviously at this point.
Mastermind of Sin
Tyene Sand (Tierce)

Some explanations:

Magna - the concerns that I had about him earlier are alleviated by his play and while I do not find him an easy player to read, I think he's town.

Benmage - meta puts him as town, but his actions clearly benefited scum.

Minimum (Mina/CES) - of their day one play, essentially nothing stood out to me, I find some of their actions weird (I'm thinking especially of Mina's sudden desire to lynch bvoigt right at the end of the day), and I find some of the more emotional posts overwrought.

The read on Saporient is because of Sala's play, and I'm pretty willing to evaluate that slot as time goes on with the new players there.

[Dolorous Edd]

I don't mind a Shinori jail. Think that this is better than just randomly trying to target people and not knowing who we might stop from using their ability, etc. I'm sending in my jail choice later today.

It just seems a waste of a mechanic that might help us avoid a night-kill, because if we decide on it in public, scum will just kill someone else.

No, you see the trick is to try and

preserve

someone we don't want dying at all costs. Even if it is made public. At this point, I want to guarantee that Shinori will live to tomorrow to share her info. And no, I would definitely not want her to share it now instead of tomorrow. I respect her discretion and think it is better kept secret till the actual day it can be useful instead of giving scum a heads up before.

Anyways, we should prob not prolong this day longer than it has to. I really suspect nothing much can come out of it besides all of us waiting for everyone to check in and make up our minds on the jailing and then piling on Bvoigt.

[Tyene Sand]

This has to be the slipperiest wording I have ever seen. If you want to accuse me misrepresenting something, do it with examples. This Zdenek doesn't look like he's not misrepresenting people is bullshit. The fact that you are trying to paint me as scummy with this shit is another reason you need to die.

Sit and calm the hell down. Are you just skimming or what? I said I'm in the middle of a gaming session and gave you the cliff notes--you seriously can't expect me to draft a wall while I'm hacking at Eberron critters. I'll get back to you on it, I'm not going anywhere.

As for Feysal, you can start reading my posts and his. I'm not going to rehash that discussion again, it's plenty evident, in our posts, where I changed my mind and I'm not going to phrase it again for your convenience. Go ISO or something while we wait for bvoigt.

[Dolorous Edd]

Mod, prods for the people that haven't posted since day started please?

I'm interested in what Bvoigt has to say (What

could

you even possibly say in his position?)

[Zdenek]

This has to be the slipperiest wording I have ever seen. If you want to accuse me misrepresenting something, do it with examples. This Zdenek doesn't look like he's not misrepresenting people is bullshit. The fact that you are trying to paint me as scummy with this shit is another reason you need to die.

Sit and calm the hell down. Are you just skimming or what? I said I'm in the middle of a gaming session and gave you the cliff notes--you seriously can't expect me to draft a wall while I'm hacking at Eberron critters. I'll get back to you on it, I'm not going anywhere.

As for Feysal, you can start reading my posts and his. I'm not going to rehash that discussion again, it's plenty evident, in our posts, where I changed my mind and I'm not going to phrase it again for your convenience. Go ISO or something while we wait for bvoigt.

First of all, calling that "the cliff's note version" doesn't change anything. To that comment looks like it was worded so that you could paint be as scummy, while avoiding actually accusing me of deliberately misrepresenting anyone.

As for this Feysal business, as far as I can tell the only thing that you could be referring to is this post of his:

You know, explaining that you would have Tammy out of the game before she had posted, and apparently Amrun too if she were playing, does not make any more sense to me. If you were not being whimsical or random voting, what was it? Neither of those players is one I would ever consider lynching on policy. And what was the point of post #237 anyway, since it reads only as being sort of dismissive of their ability as players? For the record, when I said I would have Tammy in LYLO if I could it was not just about her being obvious town, it was a vote of confidence that I would trust her with making the right choice.

That brings me to what I wanted to know in the first place. What is up with the constant jabs between you and Tammy? You act like there is an unresolved grudge or twenty that you are feuding over.

And your read on him changing as a result of you discovering that his meta on you wasn't as good as you thought it was makes no sense considering the other points that you raised against him.

[Eddard Stark]

Mockingjaye, Feysal, Starbuck and bvoigt have been prodded

[Mastermind of Sin]

It just seems a waste of a mechanic that might help us avoid a night-kill, because if we decide on it in public, scum will just kill someone else. And for what? Shinori reads townish, and that "I have something important to talk about" seemed townish as well, but frankly if the alternative is for him to be the jail target, I'd just rather he outed his info now and the jailing be kept private.

This.

[Shinori]

I have a question lets do it this way. This could be a bad way to word this but meh.

How many killing roles do you think are in this game? And how many do you think are scum-aligned?

How many protective roles do you think are in this game? And how many do you think are scum-aligned?

How many blocking roles do you think are in this game? And how many do you think are scum-aligned?

How many Investigative roles do you think are in this game? And how many do you think are scum-aligned?

How many miscellaneous(aka, anything that doesn't fall under any of the above roles do you think are in this game? And how many do you think are scum-aligned?



Answering these questions could help me, and my role.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't really think there's a good way to answer that question without more information from claims/flips...it's too early to tell.

[Shinori]

My point exactly. Which means my role could go either way. If i out my info then it could just help scum a hell of a lot more than town.

If people sincerly think it's better I'll out the small amount of info I have but I don't feel safe doing it because it could easily be me jumping to conclusions because the results point to multiple scenarios.

[Dolorous Edd]

Yea, okay. Jail Shinori, lynch Bvoigt, end day.

[Iecerint]

I assume I don't have an active ability, correct?

[Saporerint]

My point exactly. Which means my role could go either way. If i out my info then it could just help scum a hell of a lot more than town.

If people sincerly think it's better I'll out the small amount of info I have but I don't feel safe doing it because it could easily be me jumping to conclusions because the results point to multiple scenarios.

Sigh. Wouldn't it have made more sense not to talk about this at all until tomorrow then?

I don't think there's any reasonable way of speculating about the number of power roles/ how many are scum aligned and such. It's bound to be a huge cluster.

I think the only proper thing to do is VOTE FOR JAILING SHINORI and wait on this but Iec may not agree with me.

-sapo

[Tyene Sand]

I assume I don't have an active ability, correct?

I want everyone to stop and put their hands up if they think they see something here.

I want this dead. Badly. ASAP.

[Dolorous Edd]

I assume I don't have an active ability, correct?

?

[Tyene Sand]

Edd, that reeks of being a QT post misposted to the main thread.

[Shinori]

Yeah why was that posted here? >.>"

[Tyene Sand]

Or worse--it's a PM to the mod. That makes more sense.

And no one town would make that post. It's a mafia/SK question.

Haaaai there we have our lynch for tomorrow. \o/

[Dolorous Edd]

Or worse--it's a PM to the mod. That makes more sense.

Yea, the way I see it is he is worried that he might get investigated by Shadow or something and he wants to get his story straight if he needs to claim (obv, not like Bvoigt :p)