The Detectives (Game Over)

[IceGuy]

If the numbers go out of the chi square value then we'll know some rigging went on.

Or rather, we can assume some rigging went on. Which is worthless anyway since we don't know who did the rigging.

[Nuwen]

Randomization is bad.

Randomization is bad.

Randomization is bad.

There are certain roles that are better than others with regard to group play in this game. The gunsmith is receiving a lot of attention because, at face-value, it gives a lot of bang for buck in a vacuum. For a singular slot, it's probably the "strongest" hunting role because of scum's permagun status and relatively weak counterpoint w/ gun planting.

Janitors

are also an elegant solution to the gunsmith role, and I don't anticipate too many voluntary coroners from the posting attitudes I've seen.

But with a

group of strong players

, I think the VOYEUR is the strongest role

if the role sees all actions in addition to detecting ninja presence

. Unless Zoraster left out complementing clarification when clearing up the tracker resolution, a voyeur can confirm town very easily AND neutralize ninja presence.

For this reason I am asking for the following:

I ask that all the following players agree NOT to be Gunsmiths – Nuwen, Primate, MoI, CDB, Amrun

Immediate caveat comes to mind, and it's a lot more obvious and serious than "can be guilty via plant."

13p-5p -> 8p, or "very small deductive pool" for the purpose of rolestopping/redirect or other result manipulation. Plan "increases" the value of one role's result at the cost of most others and makes the game much easier to control. Information and role spread has a really positive feedback for scum during draft stage.

[Mehdi2277]

Why is randomization bad? If you want 7 voyeurs you can do randomization and get that on average (and generally give or take 1). It's the best way I can think of to have control of the number of roles without having people claim what role they'll choose now.

[quadz08]

Randomization is bad because then you can't apply player motivation to role choices, for one thing. Additionally, what happens if we do get that 1 in x shot and end up with 6 gunsmiths? That makes us screwed, and is far less likely to happen if people are picking their own roles. *shrug*

I'm not sure how I feel about MoI's "these people cannot be gunsmiths" plan. I just can't really see significant up- or down-sides to it, I guess.

[Nuwen]

It's bad, and he

should know better

is what everyone should be taking away from this.

[quadz08]

Who should? MoI? He didn't ever suggest randomization. >_>

[Mehdi2277]

Can you really apply player motivations to role choices if it was non random? I already said that.

[quadz08]

I think we can use it to possibly help determine scumteam role composition after some flips. I don't know for sure if that will pan out, but it's worth considering.

[Primate]

Er, MOI, Coron is the best player in the history of mafiascum with scumfinding powers beyond our ken. If it wasn't for this being pre-game I'd vote you for your impertinence of putting us above him.

[Primate]

Few things I think on reflection:

Any role based plans need to be incredibly vague to succeed. The scums are going to be able to select their roles after ours, so we need something than can hold up in the name of, say, three busdrivers, which I think is hard enough to not be a thing we can do (though feel free to try).

All protown roles are about the same power generally, with gunsmiths being flexy. Voyeur for clearing town. Trackers are nice for catching scum depending on the order of claiming results.

Tracked to dead player is a lot more damning than investigated player w/gun and the former should make him de facto lynch for the day whilst that latter be a relatively minor point in favour.

I'm kind of ok with randomisation. I don't think it should be forced on people, but, particularly the voyeur/tracker pair, I don't really think there's enough between them for me to begrudge someone flipping a coin if they wanted to.

[Klazam]

Just read rules again, don't think scum can choose the same mafia power more than once.

[Coron]

How can Voyeur confirm town?

You only see what roles targeted a person, and mafia can easily target other mafia in any case.

I am really confused as to why you think Voyeur is the strongest.

[Primate]

He can't really confirm town, but if I saw, say a crooked cop on a guy I probably wouldn't pursue him any more, and I'd need something persuasive to go after him.

Also, I missed mafia couldn't stack roles, but I don't think it matters too much with regards to my point.

[Amrun]

I ask that all the following players agree NOT to be Gunsmiths – Nuwen, Primate, MoI, CDB, Amrun

This is a good idea - I really hate the thought of Nuwen in particular being a gunsmith because i CANNOT read her with reliability.

Also, I'm against randomisation because not everyone is equally good at different roles.

[Amrun]

forgot - weekend v/la reminder

[quadz08]

Oh that reminds me. I will be on a plane in about half an hour, and may or may not be on again before we hit Night. I'll follow whatever plan, if any, is decided upon.

Semi V/LA until Monday while out of town.

[syndromeofadown]

I really hate to do this but:

unexpected emergency v/la till sunday

[Nuwen]

How can Voyeur confirm town?

You only see what roles targeted a person, and mafia can easily target other mafia in any case.

I am really confused as to why you think Voyeur is the strongest.

A couple mafia roles really only benefit scum -> town targeting, like the crooked cop/roleblocker.

Because a redirector/bus driver can sorta predictable resolutions (at least when all info is known), they can tip off a voyeur to a complex and planned series of events.

There's nothing in particular preventing mafia from targeting mafia, but the

roleblocker

is especially necessary to prevent dayplay -> getting nightplay confirmation if someone's reads are right. I see lots of specific examples like this, and all are much, much more useful than test-lynching through a sea of gun results.

[zoraster]

Night 1 Begins. Please make your submission AND your action for Night 1 by PM by 20:00 EDT on Monday

[zoraster]

I have not heard from Coron and his PM reminding him of the deadline is unread. I am searching for a replacement. For obvious reasons, I can't start the game without having all selections in.

EDIT: Coron responded and will be playing. Make sure you get all actions in on time, please.

[zoraster]

Night 1 Result

ChannelDelibird the Day Coroner was killed

Day 1.0

Amrun ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Coron ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

guille2015 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

IceGuy ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Klazam ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

MagnaofIllusion ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Mehdi2277 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Nuwen ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Primate ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

quadz08 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Robocopter87 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 7 )

syndromeofadown ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 12 )

Amrun Coron guille2015 IceGuy Klazam MagnaofIllusion Mehdi2277 Nuwen Primate quadz08 Robocopter87 syndromeofadown

Total Votes ( 12 )

Needed to Lynch [ 7 ]

Deadline: Sept. 28th at 08:00 EDT

[zoraster]

Day 1 Begins Now!

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD

- I don't see anything in the rules that indicates why we didn't get Channel's Role Choice with his flip. Am I missing something?

--

So I'm going to suggest we Pop-corn our Role Selections when we claim them (and ONLY them) this phase. And I think we should probably do so before any results claims are made.

Any objections to that?

[zoraster]

@MOD - I don't see anything in the rules that indicates why we didn't get Channel's Role Choice with his flip. Am I missing something?

Nope. It was my mistake, thanks! Corrected now.

[Klazam]

No objections.