A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Tierce]

Vote: Scumhunter

You were in GvE, Nacho. You know activity and prod dodges aren't remotely indicative of alignment when it comes to Feysal. It's frustrating, yes. Very much so, and I wish he'd keep to smaller games when he clearly doesn't have the free time to be participative. But it doesn't mean anything and I seriously distrust the way you seem to be pushing it as relevant.

Yes I was, and for some reason we have two very, very different memories of Feysal prod dodging. I seem to remember him pushing a BBMolla wagon like hell for a while, I remember he was convinced Typo Incarnate was scum for a while, he also had a lot to do with defending the shit out of me in MyLo because I lurked so fucking much.

Here, he's been prod dodging, but his reads haven't been changing at all as I'd expect town-Feysal's to, and he hasn't been frustrated on days when there wasn't much chance of lynching this scumread that has been so strong he's been pushing it from Page 3.

My read on Feysal is wavery. I wasn't in GvE, but I read along for a good part of it. I also followed Chrono Trigger even after I replaced out, and there he was scum. Yes, you are right about one thing: his insistence/consistence on this one Starbuck/Scumhunter wagon is distressing, and I'd like to see him address your slot's points. What made red flags come up was your focus on the prod dodging, which is typical Feysal, without bringing these other points up.

Then there is Plumamma. What the hell? Recently you keep calling my Starbuck vote stupid, but have you ever even commented on my case? I also remember hearing how meta should not be a shield, but a sledgehammer, or words to that effect. I don't give a damn how lazy Scumhunter is as town, my case is not about him anyway. I looked up meta on Starbuck too earlier in the game, and what I saw from her as town had nothing in common with her woe is me attitude in this game. And you talk as if no one ever caught scum on page three. Neither Starbuck or Scumhunter has ever done anything to make me reverse that read.

I have called your case stupid, yes.

You're essentially saying that Starbuck got an isolated Aegon goon PM, and decided to get herself chosen so she could shoot someone town?

The "woe is me" attitude you refer to is a bit off-base; she never says "I'm a liability, choose me", she says "I'm a VT, choose me".
And sure, people have definitely caught scum and page 3. But do they update their case when it is page 102? Usually, yes.

This

is actually an excellent point. I really can't see someone like Starbuck, who just got out from an hiatus and is still very much uneasy with the current site meta, pulling that move as, say, an Uninformed Aegon goon. It would be a terrible idea--she could shoot one of her own buddies. This is not to say she can't be Informed Aegon or Stannis, but why would a member of a fractured scum faction sacrifice herself like that if she were Aegon, Informed or Uninformed? And Stannis... I still don't think so.

I mentioned kortul earlier from Doctor Who Mafia. Starbuck was there too, and there she was just as eager to jump in and make a difference and botched it. As town. This is a player who thinks a 1-shot Commuter can make a lot of difference in a Mini. Come on--her D1 self-Choose is a level of naivety and comfort with the role she claimed that she would not show if she were scum.

I'm not lynching this slot. Period. It makes no sense as scum, and it is just a huge lynch magnet that doesn't need to be. Scumhunter is trolling, yes. I'd love to see him replace out. But unless I have clear-cut evidence of him deliberately fucking up a LyLo for his team, I am not going to lynch his slot. Like Katsuki, he's way smarter than he paints himself, and that is all a gimmick. Stop looking at the attitude and look at the alignment.

It doesn't make sense as scum.

[Tyene Sand]

Whelp. Keep all body parts inside the correct account at all times.

Vote: Scumhunter

You were in GvE, Nacho. You know activity and prod dodges aren't remotely indicative of alignment when it comes to Feysal. It's frustrating, yes. Very much so, and I wish he'd keep to smaller games when he clearly doesn't have the free time to be participative. But it doesn't mean anything and I seriously distrust the way you seem to be pushing it as relevant.

Yes I was, and for some reason we have two very, very different memories of Feysal prod dodging. I seem to remember him pushing a BBMolla wagon like hell for a while, I remember he was convinced Typo Incarnate was scum for a while, he also had a lot to do with defending the shit out of me in MyLo because I lurked so fucking much.

Here, he's been prod dodging, but his reads haven't been changing at all as I'd expect town-Feysal's to, and he hasn't been frustrated on days when there wasn't much chance of lynching this scumread that has been so strong he's been pushing it from Page 3.

My read on Feysal is wavery. I wasn't in GvE, but I read along for a good part of it. I also followed Chrono Trigger even after I replaced out, and there he was scum. Yes, you are right about one thing: his insistence/consistence on this one Starbuck/Scumhunter wagon is distressing, and I'd like to see him address your slot's points. What made red flags come up was your focus on the prod dodging, which is typical Feysal, without bringing these other points up.

Then there is Plumamma. What the hell? Recently you keep calling my Starbuck vote stupid, but have you ever even commented on my case? I also remember hearing how meta should not be a shield, but a sledgehammer, or words to that effect. I don't give a damn how lazy Scumhunter is as town, my case is not about him anyway. I looked up meta on Starbuck too earlier in the game, and what I saw from her as town had nothing in common with her woe is me attitude in this game. And you talk as if no one ever caught scum on page three. Neither Starbuck or Scumhunter has ever done anything to make me reverse that read.

I have called your case stupid, yes.

You're essentially saying that Starbuck got an isolated Aegon goon PM, and decided to get herself chosen so she could shoot someone town?

The "woe is me" attitude you refer to is a bit off-base; she never says "I'm a liability, choose me", she says "I'm a VT, choose me".
And sure, people have definitely caught scum and page 3. But do they update their case when it is page 102? Usually, yes.

This

is actually an excellent point. I really can't see someone like Starbuck, who just got out from an hiatus and is still very much uneasy with the current site meta, pulling that move as, say, an Uninformed Aegon goon. It would be a terrible idea--she could shoot one of her own buddies. This is not to say she can't be Informed Aegon or Stannis, but why would a member of a fractured scum faction sacrifice herself like that if she were Aegon, Informed or Uninformed? And Stannis... I still don't think so.

I mentioned kortul earlier from Doctor Who Mafia. Starbuck was there too, and there she was just as eager to jump in and make a difference and botched it. As town. This is a player who thinks a 1-shot Commuter can make a lot of difference in a Mini. Come on--her D1 self-Choose is a level of naivety and comfort with the role she claimed that she would not show if she were scum.

I'm not lynching this slot. Period. It makes no sense as scum, and it is just a huge lynch magnet that doesn't need to be. Scumhunter is trolling, yes. I'd love to see him replace out. But unless I have clear-cut evidence of him deliberately fucking up a LyLo for his team, I am not going to lynch his slot. Like Katsuki, he's way smarter than he paints himself, and that is all a gimmick. Stop looking at the attitude and look at the alignment.

It doesn't make sense as scum.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Not just a policy vote. He has a

decent enough

chance at flipping scum, and

is someone I wouldn't care less if didn't and moreover don't want anywhere near LyLo.

He's contributed absolutely nothing besides calling MoI a scumlord and saying Regfan's probably scum for LOLsuspecting him. I just finished a game where he contributed extremely little as scum and pulled this lazy crap. He doesn't even have to read the entire thread. Regfan and I have suggested for him a place to start that didn't entail reading a 100 page game and he still refuses cuz lollazy. He could absolutely pull this off as scum.

And if town, he's not going to be nightkilled, so if this game goes to LyLo, he'll likely lose it for us anyway. Totally not opposed to his lynch.

The bolded are the important bits. You know he probably won't flip scum. And it frustrates you, I understand.
But you also should understand that there is going to be a big ol' target on my head today if not tomorrow, so our time in this world is a little short. I understand that the beginning was a bit underwhelming, but I'm back in the saddle now and I'm ready to lynch scum, not disgustingly lazy town.

What Pandora said. In GvE (and other games) I remember Feysal being a lot more active. But his interactions with the flipped scum so far lead me to believe he's probably town, so I still think he's a bad lynch.

Which interactions make you think that he's not Stannis aligned?

DCLXVI staying on the Feysal Choose wagon instead of the equally viable Greenknight wagon...also I find it unlikely that we had 4 competing wagons on scum D1...Sapo/bvoigt for votes and DCLXVI/Feysal for chooses...

lynches were StefanB and Bvoigt, ultimately.
scum did not seem so sad about being chosen, and I could easily see a DCL/Feysal crossbus in the chooses and not in the voting.

[Tyene Sand]

By all means, go on. Show me where I'm wrong--if nothing else, your words show that I'm not imagining this kind of behavior in your not-recent meta, so I'd like to see this evidence of you making an effort as town recently.

You can check out Always On (where the mod just gave me an award for best use of mechanic) or The Reckoning II (where I had to pretty much single-handedly save the game after Fate and a bunch of quick-lynching dumbasses nearly handed scum a win), and there's another ongoing game that I'm dead in where I was also fairly proactive as town. I've been somewhat turning a corner on my play lately (got bored of being bored, I guess you could say), just depends on how much people annoy me or piss me off. That said, I can't say with 100% certainty that this change wouldn't also apply to my scum game, as I haven't had any scum games recently to compare to.

In this game in particular, however, I mostly just needed to do something to get my head back in the game because the last few game days have not really been productive for me to get a grip on things, since bvoigt was an obvious lynch Day 2 and you guys killed my main suspect, Sala/Sapo, before I even had a chance to check out the game thread Day 3. Hasn't really helped me get a feel for who else might be scum, so I needed to go back and look at things fresh with as little pre-existing prejudice as possible. Hence my analysis posts (duh!). I'm planning to take a look at a few other things in this game eventually, but that becomes less and less likely to happen the more I have to spend my only free game-posting time responding to retarded people in this game saying I put no effort into my analysis.

Obviously I'd expect to put effort into scum games, otherwise you'd be creating deliberate town meta. Worry not, that's not what I'm asking.

I'll go through these games tomorrow and mull this over. Thanks for answering.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

What made red flags come up was your focus on the prod dodging, which is typical Feysal, without bringing these other points up.

That post was me specifically calling Feysal out because I saw him reading at the bottom.
I did not want him to proddodge again.

[Tyene Sand]

EBWOP:
"Obviously I'd expect

you

to put effort" etc.


Also, I'd like to present this. This was a Mini Normal in which Scumhunter acted perfectly normal, used his role well, helped town win.
Please, Scumhunter? No one really has fun with the pointless trolling and this is just a stupid wild goose chase. Instead of antagonizing each other, just participate actively or replace out. I know you're capable of contributing, so I'd love to see that slot do its best, we're really close to deadline.


PEdit: That makes sense. Honestly, though, I doubt that will do anything with Feysal. I'd know, I've tried. This is a player who doesn't even defend himself much when being wagoned because he's always so freaking far behind and doesn't choose to ditch the older pages and deal with what's important

right now

--that lead to his lynch, as scum, in Chrono Trigger. (He might have been doomed by PoE anyway, but he was so far behind that by the time he got to posting he was hammered.)

[Tyene Sand]

Goddammit Nacho I really hope you're town. I hate this paranoia and the waiting because there's nothing to be done about you.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Goddammit Nacho I really hope you're town. I hate this paranoia and the waiting because there's nothing to be done about you.

I hate the paranoia too, trust me.
Luckily if I live 'til the morn, it will be all gone.

[Tierce]

Not quite. It's only at the end of D5.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Whoops.
Guess your paranoia is keeping me alive until then.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Obviously I'd expect to put effort into scum games, otherwise you'd be creating deliberate town meta. Worry not, that's not what I'm asking.

For months I tried creating a deliberate town meta of being incredibly lazy...and it never worked. I finally give up on that and change my play around and someone finally decides to use my previous meta...to paint me as scum for not following it anymore. *sigh* >.<

[Eddard Stark]

Day 4, Votecount 10

4nx3ty (2) - Minimum, Regfan
Pine (1) - 4nxi3ty
BBmolla (1) - Benmage

Scumhunter (5) - Magua, Feysal, kortul, Lyanna Stark, Mastermind of Sin

Magua (1) - Scumhunter
Feysal (3) - Plums Yo Mamma, BBmolla, Pandora
Mastermind of Sin (2) - Zdenek, Tyene Sand

Not Voting (2):

Shinori, Pine

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: 6th October at 19:30am Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-10-06 14:30:47)

Prodding Scumhunter

[Regfan]

MoS, see when you have your only stated in-thread scum-read being kortul, go into an analysis come out with a vote on Kortul and no statement of what you think is scummy or not scummy from any other player then yes you're just making the anaylsis to look as if it's a 'contribution' with no intent to solve anything from it at all. Again I'll repeat it since you ignored it 'voting on the same wagon as scum' is not a scum-tell, don't understand how you can ever attempt to justify it as one unless you're stating with 15 to lynch scum believed 2 of them voting together was super effective and more likely to drive the lynch through which really isn't the case. The fact that you're attempting to 'analyze' people off things like that which have no real relevance to alignment without looking at peoples motivations or actually looking at peoples posts and content show that you're not scumhunting. Not even close to it. The fact that you haven't stated any read on Jal/Scumhunter/Mocking and a bunch of other people including Benmage at all nor do you look like you're trying to read them or state your thoughts on their posts means you're not looking at everything, just the one person you went into this with a scum read on. And no, I'm not arguing with you because you're voting Kortul specifically, he's probably one of my weakest town reads at the moment, it's the fact that none of your posts show thought process that resembles in-depth consideration.

Originally thought Regfan was town, cause his vote looked like he was still paranoid from the last game we played where I fooled him as scum. Recently, His continuing to call me his top scumread yet not really questioning the motive in my posts is giving me scumvibes. I suppose I could say the same thing about CES yet I get the vibe that he genuinely believes I am scum.

Has nothing to do with 'paranoia of you from a previous game' in fact I don't even remember you being scum in the other game (Assume you're talking about Magician game by DDD?) and if you've read through the thread you'd know as much; the scum-read on you is mostly revolved around Mockingjayes posts and the fact that she fits perfectly with post scum-teams. And your posts haven't shown anything other than tid-bits of conversation here and there that add up to little and the turnabout 'had town-read on him, now scum-read on him' about me is just a pre-emptivish omgus given that if scumhunter gets lynched today you know you'll be on the block tomorrow and need someone to push back at and you're Jal/Now pine push is going nowhere.

so yeah, biggest thing is laziest = scum, but the not giving a shit laziness here is far less like his scummeta than it is elsewhere. So I am still not happy with this lynch.

The games you linked (At least the one where he was in a hydra with me) wasn't him lurking at all, we spoke on AIM during that game daily for 30 minutes - 1 hour on average about our reads, who we thought was scum, the only reason he didn't post so much was because I was doing the posting at the point. As town he actually gives a shit, he enjoys it and puts in effort. As scum he hates the game and lurks it out. The only thing giving me pause from joining Magua on shooting me (lol) is that I think as scum he'd flat out replace out to not harm a scum-team or at least put something that can be construed as content forward but then again it's entirely possible he doesn't know what to content-post. Either way for him it's legitimate scumhunting content before deadline, replacing out or death. Now I still have questions you haven't answered and they'll only take you a minute so no 'fuck busy sorry guys!' bullshit. 1) List in Post 2336 is about what? 2) Explain the kortul is scum, not scum, stannis scum from Post 2340 to Post 2342 for me and 3) Explain the Feysal = Stannis scum in Post 2346 for me.

[Regfan]

The only thing giving me pause from joining Magua on

shooting

sheeping me (lol) is that I think as scum he'd flat out replace out to not harm a scum-team or at least put something that can be construed as content forward but then again it's entirely possible he doesn't know what to content-post.

Fixed.

I don't buy Feysal-scum. Do agree his town meta is to be more active than this and his play here meta-wise now is moreish towards his scum meta but don't think he fits as either scum-team and there's been quite a few points he's put forward that have read as genuine and that I've agreed with. If anyone wants specifics of why he doesnt' really fit as either scum-team I'll go into it later tonight (8ish hours from now) but Sapors and DCLs interactions and mentions of him don't read partners.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

List doesn't matter, and I was wrong about the kortul read.

Explain the Feysal = Stannis scum in Post 2346 for me.

Their interaction reading notscum is bullshit. DCL rarely addressed Feysal twice, and was careful to draw attention to the fact that they were crossvoting. This is unlike kortul's choose on DCL where he states that he wished DCL could post more so he could refine his read but he supposes he could trust him with a gun if he was wrong because that doesn't get any towncred. The Feysal/DCL cross-choosing business clearly was meant to.

I don't buy Feysal-scum. Do agree his town meta is to be more active than this and his play here meta-wise now is moreish towards his scum meta but don't think he fits as either scum-team

For one, I think that it's stupid that people are pulling out the "doesn't fit as either scumteam" card when we have one stannis scum flipped by choosing. It's a different mechanic then lynching so it's harder to garner associative tells from, and it's also hard to draw such strong associative tells when Feysal is lurking up a storm. Do I find it scummy that he hasn't been active? Sort of. What I find scummier is that he could care less about his strongest scumread of the game, one that he has pushed since very early on but hasn't felt the need to update for 100 fucking pages.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Choose:Feysal

VOTE: Jal I'm tired so I'm going to blatantly sheep Dolorous on this one.

and yes, I'm aware I'm joining two of the bigger wagons. It's not my fault they got caught before I joined.


Townreads: Dolorous, MoI, shadow
null leaning scum: Tierce
Scumreads: Jal, Feysal

I'll have more later but this is a good starting point for a game this big.

read how he feels obligated to shirk responsibility for the jal vote (which should be his stronger scumread), and yet doesn't for the Feysal read. it's almost like he knows Feysal is gonna flip scum, and thus doesn't need to be worried about voting him.

I find it interesting that I am listed as null-leaning scum, and starbuck is listed as scum but Feysal puts his choose on me. still scum.

the only other Feysal interaction, despite choosing him for all of Day 1.

You might point out that the greenknight choose wagon was ripe for hopping right around when DCL jumped on feysal. But it only makes sense for him to bus his partner with his choose vote, especially since the wagon on him was pretty reasonless (fucking multiball slip? seriously?), especially since he's already concerned about jumping on easy bandwagons demonstrated by him saying so in his first post, his overreaction to Ben calling him out for the Jal vote, and his vote on you which is basically saying "look, I'm not jumping on easy bandwagons!"

so yeah, no clearing Feysal from this angle

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Choose: greenknight

Oh yeah, Feysal DID try to go for the juicier greenknight choose wagon before DCL. That's right!

Another mason. Oh great. Well, it adds up. My problem with SnowStorm having been too passive and not even sheeping or supporting his partner is easily explained by his original partner having gone AWOL.

Unchoose: greenknight

this post is cool because it reminds us that Feysal got his last choose wagon shut down by a mason claim, and the alternate wagon to him is DCL. As scum, what's he going to do? Put in additional effort and create a new choose wagon to save his scumpartner? Choose himself? Or bus?

Choose: DCLXVI

we have a winner.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Upon rethinking it and because it is 4:30 in the morning and I am generous, I don't think we can have a proper Feysal discussion without me answering your questions satisfactorily, which I guess I will anyways.
The first section of the list of townreads that I had and was going to do short reevaluations on, and the second list was people I specifically wanted to ISO because of fleeting scumreads and I hadn't read in a while. Feysal appears on that list twice because he was originally a townread for me until I actually read his posts and realized that what he was saying was actually a bunch of crap.
The kortul not stannis read was based on his choose on DCL, where the probably stannis read was how fake he treated DCL's flip "is Stannis related to Aegon Targaryan because I am totally willing to trust you guys instead of google". I've since decided that this kortul is not scum-kortul, after checking him against Last Will IV, where he had a few obvious tells he is not dropping here.

and luckily, while checking the game again to make sure what I am saying is not complete and total bullshit, I found this:

The choose does not require a majority, so please don't vote me under the fallacy that doing so is better than a no-choose. If you think me and feysal are both town just don't choose either of us.

totally not bussing, guys
totally

[Plums Yo Mamma]

and if you've read through the thread you'd know as much; the scum-read on you is mostly revolved around Mockingjayes posts and the fact that she fits perfectly with post scum-teams.

This is a problem. The fact that she fits with both scumteams probably means she doesn't belong to either.
This goes for you too, Mossy.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Also, I've decided that I am not okay with people not forming a read on me until the end of Day 5. It's good for me to get reads on people by the way they are reading someone who is clearly and obviously town, and it's better that scum can't wait to see how much of a threat I'll become by Day 5 before so much as expressing their opinion on me anymore, especially since I know I am a hard read for plenty this game.

4nxi3ty, Tyene, and Regfan all get townpoints for not just pushing me to the side and taking some effort to read me.
Magua gets a glare.

[Pandora]

Well just from the amount of death you're putting into the thread now you seem more townie then ever before. Apparently just being touched by Greyjoy makes you awesome? It's been hard to look at your posts and say anything besides 'I agree yo'. Either way you're at least not scum with someone so there's no reason not to take you at face value.

It's embarrassing actually that you're having to put that much effort into arguing that Starhunter isn't scum, this should have been an easy cleared up 3 days ago thing. Starbuck wasn't scum, Scumhunter isn't scum, and the only guy who holds that golden lynch apple to heart is Feysal. Everyone else is just voting with their annoyance. Seriously Feyal is a guy whose singular posts were something I liked to read for intelligent and insightful thoughts into the game and right now he's not just left behind, he's not even trying to change his point of view.

PEdit: That makes sense. Honestly, though, I doubt that will do anything with Feysal. I'd know, I've tried. :( This is a player who doesn't even defend himself much when being wagoned because he's always so freaking far behind and doesn't choose to ditch the older pages and deal with what's important

right now

--that lead to his lynch, as scum, in Chrono Trigger. (He might have been doomed by PoE anyway, but he was so far behind that by the time he got to posting he was hammered.)

So basically you're saying he's acting like his scum meta? :V

[4nxi3ty]

Feysal is a strong townread for interactions with flipped scum

What is your opinion of:

I think the multi-scum slip is enough to go off at this stage, see how feysal continues to react.

I think he's voting Feysal and gassing up the escape pod.

scum jumping on a slip that isn't true.

The choose does not require a majority, so please don't vote me under the fallacy that doing so is better than a no-choose.

If you think me and feysal are both town just don't choose either of us.

scum don't talk about their buddies like this. This is what they do to tie themselves to somebody else.

Has nothing to do with 'paranoia of you from a previous game' in fact I don't even remember you being scum in the other game (Assume you're talking about Magician game by DDD?)

no, the much more recent newbie game that had to be rebooted because of a modslip. The game where you were IC; that had you, me, and scumhunter in it?

and if you've read through the thread you'd know as much; the scum-read on you is mostly revolved around Mockingjayes posts and the fact that she fits perfectly with post scum-teams.

I very well understand that mockingjayes' posts is why you and others have called me scum; Still doesn't explain why, up until now, there has been a lack of focus on my posts from you.

And your posts haven't shown anything other than tid-bits of conversation here and there that add up to little

don't like how you are, essentially, attacking my playstyle here and dismissing my posts as meaningless.

and the turnabout 'had town-read on him, now scum-read on him' about me is just a pre-emptivish omgus given that if scumhunter gets lynched today you know you'll be on the block tomorrow and need someone to push back at and you're Jal/Now pine push is going nowhere.

not following the logic of a Jal lynch going nowhere (which I don't get, iirc magua was the only one who had a townread) and scumhunter lynch combined with my read of you equaling a pre-emptive omgus.

[Regfan]

Nacho, thanks for the answers re; link/kortul, both make a lot of sense. I'll re-look at Feysal/DCL interactions again in the morning (Exhausted now) but still disagree that they're partners and 4nxieties post above sort of explains why. Do agree that the choose element changes what partners interactions is somewhat but don't think it's as massive a change as you're making it out to be; don't think scums aim and goal would be to have them crossing and think DCLs 'feysal is scummy but less so because of the multislip and moreso because of other things' isn't what he'd say to have them cross as scum and think he'd have gone for greenknight.

This is a problem. The fact that she fits with both scumteams probably means she doesn't belong to either.

Kind of shocked that you'd say something as stupid as this. Sure, someone fitting as scum with someone else doesn't mean they will always be scum but the fact that they fit with both parties as scum increases the odds they're scum not 'probably doesn't mean they belong to either'. Don't see any way at all you can even consider justifying the 'less likely to be scum' stance at all.

4nxiety, don't remember much about your play from the newbie that was cancelled but I'll relook at it later, didn't even remember it existed though. And there's been a lack of focus on your posts because there's nothing about them that needs massive responding towards, the case is significantly more Mockingjaye based than you and your lack of contribution isn't 'playstyle' at all, from memory as town you actually contribute useful stances and reads whereas this game you jumped in with a few questions that led nowhere really and discussion about greyscalling that was useless and rather stupid. Your vote on Jal comes mostly down to 'him not commenting on the trial by combat' which isn't much of a scum-tell at all and your reads come across as you avoiding standing on too many tip-toes. The Jal lynch 'going-nowhere' is relatively obvious; there's been little to no talk about whether he's a good lynch or not from a lot of people so the lack of stances on him in the room means that you can't bank on him being lynched over you, that means in the case of a Scumhunter lynch you'd need someone else to potentially push towards and slowly opening the door of pushing towards me is the perfect opening for you to do so.

[4nxi3ty]

don't really see how you can say I haven't been contributing when you kinda agree with my stance on Feysal.

well I think my point about Jal not commenting about here scumreads when they both were in a 1v1 is strong and lynchworthy, don't get why it is being ignored and I still hold out hope that people will realize this.

you've flat out avoided looking at certain people; Jal, Scumhunter/Starbuck, Mockingjaye/4nxiety and Plum to some degree other than slapping their names on your list.

MoS, *snip* The fact that you haven't stated any read on Jal/Scumhunter/Mocking and a bunch of other people including Benmage at all

what made you want to take out Plum for Benmage?

[Regfan]

Feysal-stance is about the only thing I agree with of yours.

And I went to re-read MoS, thought I remembered him having a town-read on Benmage, didn't find it in his ISO, tried Control + F thing and found no stance on him at all so included him and retracted Plum because while I hate people avoiding stating reads and stances on NachoPlum I can kind of see why it might happen; find out their alignment later = it can be wasted time.