A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Eddard Stark]

Day 4, Votecount 18

Thor665 (5) - 4nxi3ty, Minimum, Zdenek, Tyene Sand, Lyanna Stark

Timeater (4) - Magua, Feysal, kortul, Regfan
Feysal (4) - Plums Yo Mamma, BBmolla, Pandora, Benmage
Zdenek (1) - Thor665
Lyanna Stark (2) - Timeater, AurosVox

Not Voting (1):

Shinori

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: 9th October at 19:30pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-10-09 14:30:47)
kortul is V/la

Prodding Pandora

[Lyanna Stark]

Look at me...double voting like a boss.

[AurorusVox]

The point that you lambasted him for leaving Feysal for Thor, when that's exactly what you did. You're sitting on a wagon that you believe has little chance of going through, compared to a wagon that you have left yourself. And let's not forget you also said that

Feysal has some really good points against him, and much of his play doesn't sit well, so it's the lynch I'll be joining again when I leave your wagon, unless someone makes a really good case.

which to me certainly sounds like you're supporting the wagon.

[Minimum]

Replacements are making this game surprisingly easy.

Anxiety, Thor, AV, scum the lot of 'em.

[Lyanna Stark]

When did I lambast him for leaving feysal for Thor? As far as I'm aware, he never voted feysal.

You should read back a bit. I've made it very clear that I feel ambivalent about feysal, that there are aspects of his play that don't sit we'll and there are good points against him but that I don't have a strong scum read on him either. I also conceded the fact that plum was right on day one about a wagon I had similar issues with and didn't join and am willing to follow their lead on this one.

So, do I support the wagon? Sure, it's not on a town read. I also supported the timeater wagon, it's yet to be seen whether I will continue to support it. I also support the Thor wagon. In fact, I happen to be siting on the wagon of the person I've expressed the most doubt about and whose entrance into the game didn't do anything to alleviate that doubt.

Pedit - addressed to av

[AurorusVox]

should I hammer feysal???

Timeater shows readiness to lynch Feysal

Hey, Tim, stop sucking up to Thor whose wagon has very little chance of going though anyway, and read through feysal whose wagon does actually have a chance.

errdeerpah

My mistake. I thought you well telling him off for pushing thor. You're telling him off for buddying thor?
But that brings a whole new question. Why should he stop sucking up to thor if his wagon has little chance of going through? Do you mean, "stop defending him, he isn't likely to get lynched anyway"?
If so, why the heckles are you voting him (thor)?

[Thor665]

That's because your back and forth with Zdenek reads as incredibly fake. "Vote permalocked." It's like it's trying to jump up and down and scream "I'm a reaction test! Isn't that townie of me?"

You don't think his reaction might have twigged me? To ask it again in a roundabout manner - you find his reaction normal, more or less? Because that would make me scummy.

Replacements are making this game surprisingly easy.

Anxiety, Thor, AV, scum the lot of 'em.

Still waiting for you to explain how I look like scum in any way. I know this is a Mina and CES slot and that neither of them like to explain their reads ever...oh, wait, actually I believe the opposite, but, hey, I'm probably wrong.

[Lyanna Stark]

should I hammer feysal???

Timeater shows readiness to lynch Feysal[\quote]

Yes, and I unvoted him and voted Tim to ensure there wasn't a hammer early.

Hey, Tim, stop sucking up to Thor whose wagon has very little chance of going though anyway, and read through feysal whose wagon does actually have a chance.

errdeerpah

My mistake. I thought you well telling him off for pushing thor. You're telling him off for buddying thor?
But that brings a whole new question. Why should he stop sucking up to thor if his wagon has little chance of going through? Do you mean, "stop defending him, he isn't likely to get lynched anyway"?
If so, why the heckles are you voting him (thor)?

Thought feysal was at l-2 at the time, also thought it was weird that rather than read the iso of someone who he had offered to hammer and was likely to be lynched, he isod Thor's slot. Read to me as sucking up.

I'm voting for him because I don't have a town read on the slot. Was leaning scum on the first inhabitant and his entrance didn't alleviate that. I also don't have a town read on either of the other two larger wagons and will vote them as necessary.

[Lyanna Stark]

Why exactly were people voting Jal

Whats the case

Why didn't you ask this question about feysal?

[AurorusVox]

Ehh

Vote: Feysal

[Regfan]

Timeater, just want to make sure I have this right, you didn't read my post to you properly the first time (The one mentioning that SH/Starbuck had claimed), then stated you have an ace up your sleeve, then read my post, then realized Scumhunter claimed Jaime so you posted as such? Oh and TammysTown.

I want everyone who has a town-read on 4nxiety/Timeater to explain it in their next post and if they don't I want them to explain why they're not for his lynch today.

Regfan you did this shit about 5 days too late.

There's enough time to get anything done so don't pull this 'oh too late to help' card.

Timeater is probably town. I would be fine with a blitz hammer that ends the day.

Would like you to explain your town-read on him for me, would also want you to explain why you were happy with a blitz hammer that ends the day on Feysal when you move on to call him 'obv.town'. Also your push on Zdenek is really stupid. He never said "This isn't like Feysals scum meta, therefore he could still be scum that changed meta" at all, in fact he stated he thinks his play here matches his scum meta (He's wrong, and I'll go into why later tonight when the cricket winds down but his stance isn't contradictory or scummy at all). Want to hear your other reads at the moment as well / how much of the thread you've read.

[Thor665]

Would like you to explain your town-read on [Timeater] for me

Early VT claim and beard.
Why is he scum?

would also want you to explain why you were happy with a blitz hammer that ends the day on Feysal when you move on to call him 'obv.town'.

Okay, when I said that I didn't have a town read on him, so it's an inherently slightly derp question unless you think I did have a town read on him when I said that, and if that's the case show me where I said or implied that.

Also your push on Zdenek is really stupid. He never said "This isn't like Feysals scum meta, therefore he could still be scum that changed meta"

Okay so reviewing Feysal's play here, it doesn't actually look all that different from his play in AFFC. The only thing that stands out is posting rate.

Here he says his game here looks like his town play.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4386533
Here he says that he changed his meta from his scum play.

What am I missing?

in fact he stated he thinks his play here matches his scum meta

Quote or link?

Want to hear your other reads at the moment as well / how much of the thread you've read.

I've already expressed the reads I have and also explained how much of the game I've read - which parts confuse you?

[Pandora]

I thought I looked at this yesterday <_< I think I fell asleep mid-post. Oh god who the fuck are these people

[4nxi3ty]

The main reason I find you scummy is, ime, you are much more objective with your reads as town. Here it feels like you are much more concerned with portraying someone's actions as scummy rather than looking at the motivations behind them.

Where do you see this specifically?

In Regfan's attacks against me, mos, and tim.
His overall tone is "this is scum!" and I am not seeing much of "is this scum?" from him; It is like every single argument we make is automatically wrong and scummy, If that makes sense.
Also, tim is correct with his overdeveloped attacks feeling contrived. It feels like Regfan is over-justifying his stances.

Another thing that bothered me is there are times when it looks like he is actively trying to appear the most pro-town -- "everyone we need to be more active" "yeah lets extend deadlines for the replacement"-- stuff that he doesn't neccessarily need to say.

tbh I would prefer a Regfan lynch over Thor at this point yet there has been zero momentum.

Thor, explain your thought process from being okay with a feysal lynch to thinking he is obvtown.

[Regfan]

Early VT claim and beard.

Both his predecessors claimed VT at some point before replcing out so I don't see how that's a town-tell at all. Also your beard is fake.

Okay, when I said that I didn't have a town read on him, so it's an inherently slightly derp question unless you think I did have a town read on him when I said that, and if that's the case show me where I said or implied that.

Being happy with a blitz hammer means you're comfortable voting the person you are (Especially if they're the lynch that the blitz hammer is being talked about), I don't understand you saying that if you didn't read Feysals posts yourself at all at the time and if you had then I don't understand the change from 'happy with lynch' to 'obv.town'.

Here he says his game here looks like his town play. Here he says that he changed his meta from his scum play. What am I missing? Quote or link?

I'll bold what you're missing then:

Alright, so inspired by Regfan's defense of Feysal I checked Feysal's play in AFFC: Looking at what's left of AFFC, F

eysal's posting rate is something like half of what it was in that game. This already sends off warning bells.

Early on he gave a few town-reads, he attacked MoI and voting Magister Ludi for doing nothing. He continued to give town reads - one on the leading wagon and push Ludi and argue with MoI. He attacked Magua and MoI. So he had three scum reads: Ludi (that was early and later he voted him because of his gambit), Magua and MoI, with MoI being the strongest. He also thought that Plum and me were scum. Magua became town to him because of his interactions with MoI. Finally he voted Plum because of someone else's case. Looking at this,

I disagree with Regfan's point #1 about Feysal.

Okay so reviewing Feysal's play here, it doesn't actually look all that different from his play in AFFC.

The only thing that stands out is posting rate.

Now I have to go check out a scum game of his. In Chronotirgger, Feysal's posting rate was even lower than it is here. He starts off being confused by a flash wagon and not really sold on any of the current suspects. He gave out a town read on Tierce. He gave out scum reads on Spyrex, Staeg and Elmo. He switched his vote to Shadow Dancer. Then Drey. Without commenting I think on Shadowdancer/his replacement. He calls Spyrex scum again. He votes Elmo. I think without mentioning Spyrex. The rest of the game seemed to be mostly about setup spec/role interactions. One difference is that it seems like he only posted when he was caught up, rather than while he was trying to catch up. He also didn't have any solid suspects during the game. On the other hand I believe that was the main reason that Spyrex was suspicious of him, and it's an easy thing to correct for (and, for instance, ending up being overly focussed on one person). All this considered, I don't think that the meta on Feysal is relevant to his alignment.

So the bottom line is that he's playing like scum, so we should lynch him.

[Pandora]

Okay, recap for myself
Thor = Jal who was obvtown, check
AurorusVox = MoS who was looking charttown, check
Timeater = The VT town slot check

I'm sorry was someone else claiming all the replacements were obvscum? Minimum you just don't give up do you? Speaking of naive where's your emotional partner or did she catch the same disaster in Dreamland that Quilly got steamrolled under?

You know who I didn't see in the middle of all those pages despite being at at least L-2 at some point? It starts with an

F

and ends with an

eysal

. Stop acting like goddamn schoolchildren and forgetting everything else about this game because a new gang showed up in town. Stop fucking around with your votes and get thhem right back on this wagon children or I will smack each of you with rulers.

[Regfan]

His overall tone is "this is scum!" and I am not seeing much of "is this scum?" from him; It is like every single argument we make is automatically wrong and scummy, If that makes sense. Also, tim is correct with his overdeveloped attacks feeling contrived. It feels like Regfan is over-justifying his stances. Another thing that bothered me is there are times when it looks like he is actively trying to appear the most pro-town -- "everyone we need to be more active" "yeah lets extend deadlines for the replacement"-- stuff that he doesn't neccessarily need to say. tbh I would prefer a Regfan lynch over Thor at this point yet there has been zero momentum.

So let me get this right, you think I'm scum for having, explaining and pushing on scum-reads? Also activity is key to games, lack of activity and content kill games and thus constantly stating as much pressures people conciously to post more which is what's needed, also think I said similar things a lot in the newbie game we were in so you treating this as a scum-tell is just you attempting to prepare for a push back on me for upcoming days.

(This is scum!)

[4nxi3ty]

no not for explaining and pushing, it is the way you push your reads that I find scummy.

a newbie game where your IC is very different from a large theme game.
I am much more wary of someone who takes "Imma steer everyone in the right direction" route in this game.

what about what I said is scum?

[Regfan]

no not for explaining and pushing, it is the way you push your reads that I find scummy. a newbie game where your IC is very different from a large theme game. I am much more wary of someone who takes "Imma steer everyone in the right direction" route in this game.

I take charge or at least attempt to sezie some form of control in just about any game I play. It's better than letting everyone flail around, waste time and discuss or spend time focusing on people that are obvtown or less likely scum. And the (This is scum!) was mocking of your post but the fact that your scum-read that you were annoyed that people didn't join you on (Jal) is being voted (Thor) and now you're attempting to state that your preference vote or lynch is me comes highly highly highly across giving yourself something to push on tomorrow.

[Timeater]

I dont mean to pull a Katsuki but...

Reg's vote is still on me.

He's mafia. Thats a guarantee.

Only wagon right now that looks good to me is Feysal.

Vote: Feysal

[Timeater]

Timeater, just want to make sure I have this right, you didn't read my post to you properly the first time (The one mentioning that SH/Starbuck had claimed), then stated you have an ace up your sleeve, then read my post, then realized Scumhunter claimed Jaime so you posted as such? Oh and TammysTown.

Skimmed it, forgot, remembered

And no she isnt

[Timeater]

There are at least 2-3 scum on the Thor wagon

Guaranteed

[Thor665]

Both his predecessors claimed VT at some point before replcing out so I don't see how that's a town-tell at all. Also your beard is fake.

Yes, and his predecessors had an early VT claim. A town read on them transfers after a replace, same as a scum read does.

Being happy with a blitz hammer means you're comfortable voting the person you are (Especially if they're the lynch that the blitz hammer is being talked about), I don't understand you saying that if you didn't read Feysals posts yourself at all at the time and if you had then I don't understand the change from 'happy with lynch' to 'obv.town'.

I never read Feysal's posts - I've made that quite clear. React accordingly.

I'll bold what you're missing then:

I'll snip it down to respond. Quotes are Zdenek, not Regfan - but, whatevs.

F

eysal's posting rate is something like half of what it was in that game. This already sends off warning bells.

I disagree with Regfan's point #1 about Feysal.

He says the posting rate is different - yes.
He also said that otherwise the play was his town play, not his scum play...so...?
Disagreeing with Regfan's post #1 is saying that Feysal is *not* a tunneler when town.
He also says he doesn't think Feysal is tunneling here, so...?

Okay so reviewing Feysal's play here, it doesn't actually look all that different from his play in AFFC.

The only thing that stands out is posting rate.

This is to clarify that I'm correct above - again, he's saying it's his town play, not his scum play, though he is posting less (something he does attribute to his scum play (though saying it's even worse than here). Meaning he really needs to look at other games to get *any* sort of real baseline here.

He gave out scum reads on Spyrex, Staeg and Elmo. He switched his vote to Shadow Dancer. Then Drey. Without commenting I think on Shadowdancer/his replacement.

Totally a tunneler when scum...wait...

He also didn't have any solid suspects during the game. On the other hand I believe that was the main reason that Spyrex was suspicious of him, and it's an easy thing to correct for

(and, for instance, ending up being overly focussed on one person). All this considered, I don't think that the meta on Feysal is relevant to his alignment.

So the bottom line is that he's playing like scum, so we should lynch him.

[/quote]
No, the bottom line is he's playing like scum...with the caveat that he has changed his meta that I am looking at.
Which is what I said Zdenek said.
Are you still not seeing this? Because I don't see him saying it's the same, i see him hedging around it, and then saying something was obviously adjusted for and consequently he must be scum.

Clarify pl0x?

[Thor665]

Thor, explain your thought process from being okay with a feysal lynch to thinking he is obvtown.

I have explained this to around three people already - could you at least clue me in to what part of the explanation leaves you confused?
Because otherwise I'll just presume you're not reading.

@Timeater - I presume you believe one scum on me is Reg, who else, if any?

[Thor665]

Actually, Reg isn't even on me, so 2 or so scum on me would be tech.