A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Eddard Stark]

Day 4, Votecount 23

Thor665 (5) - 4nxi3ty, Minimum, Zdenek, Tyene Sand, Lyanna Stark
Timeater (3) - Magua, Feysal, kortul

Feysal (6) - Plums Yo Mamma, BBmolla, Pandora, Benmage, AuororusVox, Timeater

Zdenek (1) - Thor665
4nx3ty (1) - Regfan

Not Voting (1):

Shinori

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: 9th October at 19:30pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-10-09 14:30:47)

Prodding BBmolla.

[kortul]

@Thor665

- you do realize that chances that you will push Zdenek wagon to the lynch stage today are really small? Are you going to settle for a compromise lynch? Have you seen case(s) on Feysal and Timeater slot, what are your thoughts?

The top three wagons are me, Feysal, and Timeater. I have expressed interest in lynching Zdenek and Minimalist.
I know I am town and think the other two are likely town - where do you think I am better served placing my vote?
If I could think of something, I'd be there.

Ok, i got the Timeater part. But in 2747 you said "Also, if this is multiball, it doesn't matter except insomuch as I might be wrong on Feysal", that's why i've asked. What IS your opinion on Feysal now? With some explanation, since "Zdenek pushes him" doesn't really shows Feysal alignment, just reduces the possibility of both of them being in the same scum faction.

Regfan, i really doubt you will be able to roll a wagon on 4nx (take a look at one of my previous post with counts, nothing much changed since that time). Since there's lot of talk about Feysal meta, but opinions are different, skimming his games to get my own impression of his play.

And my questions to

Zdenek

and

Timeater

are still open.

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor

[Magua]

God, this game.

Really sad at what happened to the Timeater wagon, because of Tim-spam.

[Minimum]

It's not like Timeater's going to live very long if he is scum.

Now vote for Thor, get a scum flip and rejoice.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

"Feysal having one scum read = Scum".

No. It brings up the fact that Feysal only having one scum read that he has not added to since PAGE FUCKING 3, which is not a meta point that tunneling = scummy because that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that he is pushing and pushing for reasons that are sorely fucking outdated, which is scummy. Not that he is tunneling. I never said or implied that he was scummy because he was tunneling.

confirmation-bias

You were saying that they were in no way partners. I was pointing out that they COULD BE. I was not talking about confirmation bias, I was trying to fight yours.

So all up I think the case is horseshit. Lynch Timeater or 4nxiety over Feysal anyday.

And you got it fundamentally wrong.

@Zdenek - this is how your last post reads to me;

I did research on Feysal's scum meta.
It doesn't match his play here.
I would like to lynch him here.
Therefore I'll say the meta doesn't matter because he could have changed it.

Unvote: Feysal
Vote: Zdenek

>.>
you know that this is not the time to be starting a new wagon at all.

So I should have revised my case over the past days? Way to ask for the impossible. There are only so many novel ways to phrase that Starbuck and Scumhunter spent their time doing absolutely nothing, and since the only time anything happened with the slot was early day one, then it is early day one I must base my case on. What the hell do they expect? I am not Moses, and I cannot draw water from stone.

Timeater's done a fair bit.
Scumhunter did do things, and you didn't comment on them.
It doesn't take Moses to add to a case, sorry. Interactions with flipped scum, things like that?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I am also immensely frustrated in this game day, so expect this last flurry of posts to be my last for the rest of the game day. No, I probably won't be switching my vote. If a no lynch occurs because everyone pushing vanity wagons causes everything to fall through, then I most likely will be replacing out because honestly there is no excuse for that happening with this playerlist.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nevermind, I actually just don't have it in me.
People pushing Thor for posturing: This is what Thor does, it's sort of his playstyle. He's not scum, and will not flip scum.
People pushing Tim for whatever the fuck: No, not at all.

4nxi3ty and Zdenek votes are terrible votes even if they are scum, and even if every other wagon is on town.
Regfan, you should especially pay attention to this vote unless you already forgot the StefanB lynch.

don't think Shadow faking what essentially is a guilty on Bvoigt here as scum at all, it'd be suicidal which unfortunately means that my town-read on Bvoigt is wrong and even worse it means that Nacho wins a round.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

oh hey, feysal's at the bottom, he's just gonna lurk the fuck out.
hate how he's disgusted with my play, yet he's the person who is putting absolutely no effort in the game whatsoever.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

actually fuck this, not letting this wagon die just yet

[Zdenek]

Had some time during lunch to start reading through the pages, got some questions.

@Zdenek

- have you seen any comments/discussions/etc during or after ChronoTrigger, that the absence of solid suspects "was the main reason that Spyrex was suspicious of" Feysal? Ie is it your own opinion, or there is anything that indicates that Feysal also thought it was the reason for his failure as a scum? And another question, not related - what is your opinion on motivation behind Thor665 attack on you?

It my opinion based on quotes like this from Feysal's ISO:

The one that annoys me most is SpyreX, who called me suspicious for not having strong reads

and the fact that in reading his ISO, it's pretty clear that he had no strong suspects.

I have no idea how Feysal thinks this fact impacted the game.

I think Thor is attacking me for reasons along the lines of what Magua had to say:

Zdenek: God, I loved playing against him in War in Heaven III when I was scum and he was town, and he managed to just rub everybody the wrong way, and I see him doing it here. I do skip most of his posts, though, because my limit for quote-striping is about on par with a snail's limit for salt, but he's still town.

I see myself as being a pretty safe player to build a wagon on (at least in most games), and I think that Thor, being familiar with this from Mirror Mafia, was trying it here. That said he could very well be scum trying to deflect a wagon off of a buddy or just trying to get into the game by pushing on the first thing that catches his eye after replacing in.

All that said, Feysal is still the better lynch today.

Vote Feysal]/b]

[Zdenek]

Forgot to paste in:

But at least now I know what the case is, it's "Player X is too good to neener-neener-neener"

That's not the whole case.

@Zdenek - what is this "better" Thor you're familiar with...is it scum Thor?

I'm thinking of the Thor with the Best IC award and your join date, whose reading comprehension should be better than what you're displaying here. You've attacked me for bs reasons, had that pointed out to you, and persisted attacking me for those same reasons.

Oh wait, this gets funnier. Looks like in Storm of Swords Thor *was* town...with scum Zdenek, let's look at some interplay;

"Thor has not answered my questions about the "logic loops" that he's claimed that I've made, and yesterday he said that he thought I was town and voted me in hopes of preventing a Feysal lynch. "
Thor changes scum and town reads quickly and without explanation. Scummy Zdenek hops on this.

"[Thor] say

meh to someone who thinks that I am scum, which appears to agree with your feelings, and then you vote for me, providing no reason, when yesterday you thought I was town?"
Again, Thor with sudden reverse reads - look how scummy Thor is.

He also kept demanding that I explain how I saw holes in his logic.

That is, again, SCUM Zdenek responding to TOWN Thor.
Any similarities?
Any evidence of Zdenek expecting me to be "better"?

Knock my socks off everyone.

This is fucking ridiculous.

Me thinking that changing reads randomly is scummy, is not dependent on my meta.

I am not even arguing here that you need to explain holes in logic, I am saying that you are absolutely wrong.

Also, notice the cognitive dissonance:

Yeah, but you actually say you see this as in line with his town meta.
And then kept pushing him with that as the excuse.
After looking at one scum game.
It all feels quite fake and the logic doesn't follow through.

He criticizes me for just looking at one scum game, but when he wants to use meta, he only looks at one of mine.

Had some time during lunch to start reading through the pages, got some questions.

@Zdenek

- have you seen any comments/discussions/etc during or after ChronoTrigger, that the absence of solid suspects "was the main reason that Spyrex was suspicious of" Feysal? Ie is it your own opinion, or there is anything that indicates that Feysal also thought it was the reason for his failure as a scum? And another question, not related - what is your opinion on motivation behind Thor665 attack on you?

It my opinion based on quotes like this from Feysal's ISO:

The one that annoys me most is SpyreX, who called me suspicious for not having strong reads

and the fact that in reading his ISO, it's pretty clear that he had no strong suspects.

I have no idea how Feysal thinks this fact impacted the game.

I think Thor is attacking me for reasons along the lines of what Magua had to say:

Zdenek: God, I loved playing against him in War in Heaven III when I was scum and he was town, and he managed to just rub everybody the wrong way, and I see him doing it here. I do skip most of his posts, though, because my limit for quote-striping is about on par with a snail's limit for salt, but he's still town.

I see myself as being a pretty safe player to build a wagon on (at least in most games), and I think that Thor, being familiar with this from Mirror Mafia, was trying it here. That said he could very well be scum trying to deflect a wagon off of a buddy or just trying to get into the game by pushing on the first thing that catches his eye after replacing in.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Feysal

[Plums Yo Mamma]

THOR:

I absolutely hate hate hate hate hate hate hate to say this, but Thor has been obvtown since replacing in. He is a good scumplayer, and I don't see even the more incompetent people fucking up in the way that Thor would be if he were scum. The only thing that he really had to accomplish for his scumteam upon not replacing in, unless Feysal is his partners, is to not draw fire and to allow the town to continue being somewhat apathetic in the lynch. Thor replaces in, he draws a lot of attention, he polarizes the town somewhat. Then, after someone who is on the wagon posts, he stops sheeping and attacks them even though there are no previous votes on them which is obviously going to draw attention from someone since he has not read the game so far. Why, as scum, would Thor do this? No one gave him fire for not reading the game, no one criticized him for jumping on the Feysal wagon. Why wouldn't he stay on? He would be completely justified, and questioning elsewhere couldn't have been THAT hard, and even if Feysal wasn't his partner, the flip itself wouldn't really give him that much to defend. If Feysal was his partner, there really wouldn't be a reason for him to jump on without him having plans to jump off, so that situation is ruled out pretty handily. Then there's a bunch of votes on Thor for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON, and Thor continues being his normal thor self because he really doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't stop being cheeky (which scumThor can do, believe it or not), and he doesn't stop poking and various players even after he's called them obvtown (which means he's just saying that to adjust your position, but apparently I am the only one who can see when Thor is lying).

so yeah, thor's gonna flip town wheeee
if you disagree, post a case but no one will so I feel good in this

[Plums Yo Mamma]

except Zdenek*
but I would like to see others, first

[Plums Yo Mamma]

@Thor665

- you do realize that chances that you will push Zdenek wagon to the lynch stage today are really small? Are you going to settle for a compromise lynch? Have you seen case(s) on Feysal and Timeater slot, what are your thoughts?

The top three wagons are me, Feysal, and Timeater. I have expressed interest in lynching Zdenek and Minimalist.
I know I am town and think the other two are likely town - where do you think I am better served placing my vote?
If I could think of something, I'd be there.

if you vote Feysal, you can free me up to scumhunt elsewhere
if you vote Timeater, Feysal is actually forced to do things after he flips town
either vote is better than insufferable Zdenek vote

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Replacements and townreads: Thor replaced Jal/Pine, a slot I was reading as Town. Timeater replaced Starbuck/Scumhunter, and I've made plenty clear that this is a strong townread. Their actions so far aren't impressing me.

so why not trust your old townreads a little bit and vote for someone you find unreadable?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor

BBMOLLA YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THIS

Tammy, where have you gone? Why has the Feysal wagon lost its luster, especially when Tim and Thor are at least here while Feysal is doing jack and shit still and has pretty good reasons why he is probably scum? Don't you think it's possible you're having a shitty first impression with Thor because you aren't actually giving him the time to do anything?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Who is the scum on the wagon?

I really wouldn't be suprised to find Plum be Stannis scum with one of 4nxiety/Timeater and their push on Feysal being saving partner. Know 4nxiety/DCL/Nacho all fit really well as partners, don't know how Timeater fits with Nacho/DCL, might look at it later but we find out Nachos alignment end of tomorrow for certain. Mollas town, Pandoras town, Zdeneks town, Tammys town, AV I'm undecided on, was scum on MoS all the way until his replace out, not so sure now.

hold on, YOU brought up confirmation bias?
This scumread has held fast pretty much since day 1, god damn it
no wonder you won't find Feysal town, it's all thanks to the motherfucking paranoia
At least next time you read my case, read it correctly. I have explained the shit so many times and only you seem to think my case is Feysal is scum because he tunnels.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

okay, backing away for a little while.
feysal is down at the bottom, so he should be posting soon.
sorry for spam.

[Minimum]

I absolutely hate hate hate hate hate hate hate to say this, but Thor has been obvtown since replacing in. He is a good scumplayer, and I don't see even the more incompetent people fucking up in the way that Thor would be if he were scum. The only thing that he really had to accomplish for his scumteam upon not replacing in, unless Feysal is his partners, is to not draw fire and to allow the town to continue being somewhat apathetic in the lynch. Thor replaces in, he draws a lot of attention, he polarizes the town somewhat. Then, after someone who is on the wagon posts, he stops sheeping and attacks them even though there are no previous votes on them which is obviously going to draw attention from someone since he has not read the game so far. Why, as scum, would Thor do this? No one gave him fire for not reading the game, no one criticized him for jumping on the Feysal wagon. Why wouldn't he stay on? He would be completely justified, and questioning elsewhere couldn't have been THAT hard, and even if Feysal wasn't his partner, the flip itself wouldn't really give him that much to defend. If Feysal was his partner, there really wouldn't be a reason for him to jump on without him having plans to jump off, so that situation is ruled out pretty handily. Then there's a bunch of votes on Thor for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON, and Thor continues being his normal thor self because he really doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't stop being cheeky (which scumThor can do, believe it or not), and he doesn't stop poking and various players even after he's called them obvtown (which means he's just saying that to adjust your position, but apparently I am the only one who can see when Thor is lying).

OR he made a bad attack on Zdenek and has been doing damage control. The talk of motivation is dull and irrelevant since we both know Thorscum's going to be thinking about the long game and actually getting stuff done is very much a feasible approach in that respect. You have to assume Thor is playing badly here anyway, so why should we rule out Thorinadvertentlyobvscum based on him generally being competent scum?

[BBmolla]

BBMOLLA YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THIS

But Jal was scum

[BBmolla]

Meh

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Feysal

[Lyanna Stark]

Tammy, where have you gone? Why has the Feysal wagon lost its luster, especially when Tim and Thor are at least here while Feysal is doing jack and shit still and has pretty good reasons why he is probably scum? Don't you think it's possible you're having a shitty first impression with Thor because you aren't actually giving him the time to do anything?

I saw something shiny and got distracted . I said I'd be coming back and this would be the lynch today.

VOTE: Feysal

I don't buy Thor being obvtown though. And Thor, I'm putting off answering your question again. I'm exhausted and have to get early in the morning.

[Lyanna Stark]

Oh that's L-1 by the way.