Micro 102: Mainstream Mini-Mafia [END, CULT WIN]

[Human Destroyer]

...was that a hammer?

I said it looked like she was setting up town v town, not that she was.

(Also when I said townread sheeping I meant I was sheeping my town read lol)

[JacobSavage]

Yes, yes it is

[Human Destroyer]

Yeah I think it was

Only read change is Majiffy is probably town if Mollie is scum.

P-Edit: Why the hell would you hammer when I'm having a quote war with Mollie? It's rude, ya know?

[Human Destroyer]

VOTE: HD

Fine have my vote Majiffy... seriously Mollie is town I don't think anyone can argue with that.

No she probably isn't, you're just being a mindless sheep

[Human Destroyer]

Well that or scum

Yeah scum is more likely

Rach, Jacob, Mollie are scum/cult

I'm still a VT

And yeah I guess that's it

RIP me

[JacobSavage]

Wait I don't think it was....

[Human Destroyer]

Oh wait

I thought it was 4 to lynch for some reason

Seems like I'm not dead yet!

Replies to mollie coming after school.

[Voidedmafia]

walls of texts

Ah, thank you.

okay so you think they are scummy. why. I am asking the same thing of hd and you both are just saying, "they look scummy". which is shit reasoning and you well know it. if you are not going to back up what you are saying with solid reasoning then you are no better than the people you bitch about who do not give reasons at all, although I can think of town motivation for not always giving a reason just not one for "oh they just look scummy" unless it is coming from lazy/sloppy town which you are not.

I thought I answered this already? Well, if not, I suppose I have time to go over it again.

pick out the specifics as to why you think I am scummy tia

Most of this revolves around your interactions with Thor on D1 and your little spat soon after he replaced in.

1.) Question or not, Thor still talked to you about sheeping him onto the HD wagon, a line directed toward you that you kinda ignored. I don't know if you honestly missed it or if you saw it and didn't address it, but the way you reacted to Thor's pressure to get you to respond did not look townie.

Actually, what makes this slightly more damning is that you DID reply to the post where Thor asks you to sheep...only, you don't actually address the "Sheep me or explain" part, but instead make a joke about schrodinger's cat. I don't see why you'd be so apprehensive of addressing the growing HD wagon at this point, as I don't remember you having a townread on HD at this point, so unless there's another option I'm missing this leads me to believe that you have non-town reasons to not want anything to do with that wagon--like, perhaps, he's your buddy and you don't want to get your hands that dirty?

2.)

you did not ask me a question thor, you made a suggestion.

scumtell #1

This is not a scumtell. Again, just because a statement does not have a question mark at the end doesn't necessarily mean it's not something you have to address. I think it's pretty clear that at the time Thor was trying to get you to express agreement with sheeping him, or to hear why you wouldn't, the lack of you doing either ties back to #1

3.) Following 449 where he asks you what your read on HD is (which is a pretty natural follow-through from asking for your vote. "Sheep my vote onto HD! You won't? Okay, so what is your read on him, then?"), you instead...vote him. You don't explain what you think about HD, you don't try to say why you wouldn't sheep (or even continue the question-dodging angle), you just vote him. Nevermind the huge

non sequitor

this is, it also reveals that for some reason or another you're not very keen on discussing HD, which is something a townie should be able to do (even if it's just a curt, "No, I'm not voting him cuz he's town/null/whatever"). There's no real town motivation behind it--but there is scum motivation. Namely, that you don't want to talk about your buddy because you're trying not to make associative tells or something along those lines. However, being unwilling to speak about the wagon creates such tells just as much as talking about it.

4.)

you then dismiss what my response was to your accusation with a lack of response to what I actually said. scumtell #2

This is slightly more doable as a scumtell, I suppose. However, given that Thor never actually dismissed your accusation but instead was asking you where he was deflecting after you accused him of such, the usefulness of using this as a scumtell is greatly diminished.

5.)

Remind me again how bad of a scum player you think I am

? <-- this is a question I want answered.

^ loaded question

there is a presumption in it.

This has been explained already, but this isn't a loaded question. If it was, there should be some way that he could turn your answer into an attack against you, and I don't see how asking you how good or bad you think he is at being scum can give him a response he can turn around and call you scummy for. I can see him telling you how stupid your are for the opinion, sure, or how it's wrong, but not how it's scummy.

Oh, yeah, it's answered right here.

Oh gawdz.
Here's a clue - did you ever call me a bad scum player? Ever? Anywhere?
Here's my question spelled out for the slow in class, and is what the above question is really asking;

"Mollie, you appear to think that, when I'm scum, I would play really badly. Is this true, and if so, why do you have this idea in your head? If it is not true, then why are you suggesting the things I'm doing are scummy when the only way you're suggesting them in being scummy is if you think I am rather lackwitted scum unable to answer an accusation - which, as I believe from your experience with me, you would have no basis to believe."

You answered by calling my question scummily loaded and kind of weak backing off from opinion of my play skills and also not addressing how weak the accusations you're soft slapping me with are.

I like the way I phrased the question.

6.) This does seem to sum up your reactions with each other up to this point:

No...you keep calling them *scumtells* because i "haven't".
And then i say "but I have, and you're dumb"
And then you go "baaaaaw" and suggest somehow I'm being mean for finding your posting terirble and drop hints that you also find *that* scummy.
Instead of maybe, y'know, isoing me?
Or, y'know, crazy thought, demanding I provide a post number to prove I've done what I've said I've done.

But you don't want to do that. You want to suggest I look scummy while not caring about finding answers.

8.) re: 547 and 572, the reasons why I like Thor's responses more than yours are because:
A. they're clear, thought-out answers as opposed to one-liners or answers that more belittle the person (or their argument rather than addressing the argument itself.
B. Said thought-out answers are reasoned out and I can follow what he's saying in them.
C. Certain answers (like to the 1st quote and 4th quote in his 555 that responds to your 547) look very much like responses that have won the arguments on these fronts, and you continuing these arguments despite this does not ring as true to me.

9.) Many of your later responses (such as in 627) are too filled with vitriol toward Thor that it looks less like you're trying to disprove his arguments and more like you're trying to discredit him.

Anyways, that's what I got through this hour, and I got another class to go to. Cya in an hour or two.

Regarding the apparant misread of the L-1, HD feels more town that before, but I'll need to look at it when I have more time.

[Human Destroyer]

if this were a larger game with more players or a different set up then you

might

be able to push this idea. but in what started out as a 9 player game with 2 possible factions I highly doubt that!

My cult knowledge is iffy, but don't cults start out with 1 person only? And (going by Newbie setup) aren't there usually two scum in a game of 9? That would make 6 townies (without recruits obviously), now 5 with one nightkilled. So, uh, yeah, this is actually very possible.

okay. so what you are saying is that you are more likely to talk to thor than some other person whom you should probably be talking to and this somehow relates to thor's tunneling on you and his reputation. tunneling is a town tell btw, scum just try to get town lynched. I prefer the term trolleytracking myself cos that explains what actually happens when you are so focused on the puck you get blindsighted by the opposing team. but anyways I

think

I see where you are coming from although that would put thor into your town pile not your null one cos you are assigning town motivation behind what he was doing.

I suppose this is true. Well, except for the fact that tunneling can be scum too. So still null.

and this makes me wonder if you are even keeping up with the game cos I addressed it with thor. and I addressed it in what I said to you. thor asked me why my town game looked like my scum game. we have played 1 game together where I was scum and he was town. so he is implying that he thinks I am town in this game. if you would iso my posts you would see where I pointed this out.

Except he explicitly stated he had a scum read on you; saying your scum and town games look the same doesn't mean he has a town read on you; it doesn't even imply it.

-do you know what a pressure vote is. it is pretty silly to vote someone and state that it is a pressure vote cos it pretty much negates the point of a pressure vote. or a vote to see what happens. the 2 may not necessarily be mutually exclusive except with regards to the motivation behind it in that a pressure vote can be applied to one specific person while a random vote may be to fishing to see what other people do with it. I am actually doing both right now, just to be clear.
-not really. this just tells me you have not iso-ed my posts and might not have any idea wtf you are looking at. your subsequent responses tells me you are unwilling to learn.
-I am sheeping a null possible town read in a recruitment game. this is not fucking rocket science.
-yabbut you have to state

why

. I never said that majiffy looked scummy I am sheeping ft (and he better deliver) cos of game design.

1) Except that's pretty much what you've done the whole entire game. If you have a read on someone, you usually have a reason; if you have a reason, you should be stating it. You've stated almost no reasons for any of your votes in this game; there's no way they're all pressure votes.
2) Yes, you do have a lot of fluff posts, don't start lying on me.
3) I meant I was sheeping my townread, it isn't scummy that you are lol
4) Voided explained this better than I ever could.

okay if you really are town be prepared for some blistering feedback postgame.

The difference here is that it looks more like an appeal; you're using Open 471 as an example to get me to follow you. I'm all fine and stuff with postgame advice, but during the game, eh, depends on context. I didn't like the context, so it makes me feel there's an appeal going on there.

thor is a poor choice for a recruit cos he is right he has to deal with the "why is thor still alive on d3" meta which I understand cos I have had to deal with that too (at ratskep).

Except you didn't address the WIFOM point which was really what was meant to be addressed here, I just used Thor as an example.

okay so let's look at that. why do you think I was asking the more experienced players who was a good pr hunter on here? the nk was a special so no, not that weird. plus scum could have thought he looked cultish. a cult, scum, and a pr will look the same to town cos each will unconsciously present more knowledge of what is going on in the game than vt.

This is possible I suppose, except as far as I can tell orc didn't really drop any PR/cult tells. Maybe I just missed them?

or he does cos he has inside knowledge of other players alignments cos of an anti-town role. just a thought.

Presenting another example doesn't change anything; I presented an example where you could be wrong, proving that your theory isn't necessarily right

[Voidedmafia]

4) Voided explained this better than I ever could.

This is referring to the post directly above yours?

Also, I've kinda got cold feet about the HD wagon due to that hammer stuff. Maybe I'm making myself overly paranoid (I have done a fake-hammer scenario before), but I don't want him to be lynched right now.

/inb4IgetThortosheepme

[Human Destroyer]

This is referring to the post directly above yours?

Correct.

[Majiffy]

Stay strong, town.

[Voidedmafia]

Stay strong, town.

...what?

[Majiffy]

HD's little "oh was that hammer" bullshit.

Stay strong, town.

[FourTrouble]

I'm town cop, majiffy is scum. You guys should just lynch him already.

[Majiffy]

That's adorable but unfortunately incorrect.

VOTE: FourTrouble

[Majiffy]

We can do HD tomorrow I suppose.

[Human Destroyer]

...why would you wait till now to claim cop?

[Human Destroyer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Majiffy

I probably only believe the claim because I want to, but whatever

[Majiffy]

Majiffy (2) - FourTrouble, pirate mollie, HD
pirate mollie (1) - Voidedmafia
Human Destroyer (3) - Thor665, RachMarie, JacobSavage
FourTrouble (1) - Majiffy

Should be accurate. 5 to lynch.
Also FT is probably HD's culted.

[Human Destroyer]

Even if I

was

cult, I wouldn't tell the person I culted to claim cop

It would be dumb as hell

[Majiffy]

If you're cult leader he needs to get you off the lynch options for the day.

But thanks for confirming my theory by denying something I never even implied.

[RachMarie]

wait that is 3 not 2 on you Majiffy. Sp you and HD are at L-2.

FT's claim seems kinda fake.

@ Majiffy If you think HD is the cultist, why switch to FT? I believe in what I read the cultists can't do much without the Cult Leader.

[Majiffy]

Sorry forgot to change the number next to my name.

Rach - Because I have a direct CC. And as much as I'm pretty convinced HD is the other cult, I'm going with the safer option.

[Majiffy]

Plus if FT is cult, that confirms my theory and we cut the dragon's head off with HD tomorrow 100% guaranteed.