Newbie 295: Mafia own the town!

[IH]

vote:Germy

Cause I know what long and frequent posts he likes to make.

= D

[IH]

unvote

Speed lynching is not good.

vote:Per

You don't want to reach a majority on the first page, because then you have NO info going into day 2. Scum want to speedlynch, because no one is close to lynching them.

Look at it this way. If we lynch wrong today, then we have NO MARGIN OF ERROR tomorrow, or town loses. We want the most out of today before we lynch.

If we lynch scum today, hooray, we're at three days! Alright!
If we lynch town today, oh no, we're at lylo!(lynch or lose)

= D This should be known as soon as possible. Longer days=Better for town

[IH]

Wrong, I've put a second vote on you. = D That will be the most informative I believe. We've only got two scum, correct? IF they hop on and speedlynch, BAM, we got em. Both of them. = D

[IH]

= ( I think that a page one speed lynch is all but justifiable for lynching. Seriously, if anyone hammers, they are most definitely scum. Don't forget this is an inexperienced game Germy.

[IH]

unvote, FoS:Per

Like I said, this is a newbie game, and I'm not willing to see someone lynched this early. So he made a bad play, but he was looking at it statistically I believe. I buy it anyways, and am willing to cut him SOME slack.

Bertrand, Miyu, Kaos, what are your thoughts on this?

[IH]

Indeed = D That's why speed lynching is so bad. We'd just as likely be MORE likely to lynch a townie, but if we can let the day progress with some discussion, we'll be closer.

[goodposting]

[IH]

Alright Bertrand, a one page lynch thats a bandwagon speedlynch. we have a 5 out of 7 chance of a townie being lynched, but the odds are sent even higher, because scum are not picking at random.

But that matters not.

The point is

Long days=good
short days=bad
lylo=HARD

[IH]

But I believe that a "third vote," in and of itself, is not suspicious: the timing of that vote, and the reasoning behind it, must be taken into account.

A third vote on the 1st page is suspcious.

But I'm going to ask you one question: why would scum put a third vote on someone this early while he knows that this is very suspicious and might get him lynched?

Now I hope this won't put even more suspicion on me because lynching me would be a mistake...

This is actually wifom (Wine in front of me). It means that it's a circular argument.

"Scum woldn't do it because it's so suspicious."
"Scum know that so they must not have done it."

and so on and so on.

[IH]

I agree to your comments and I understand your vote for me now. Still, it was a very dangerous situation for me nonetheless.

For you, or for the town?

I agree to your comments and I understand your vote for me now. Still, it was a very dangerous situation for me nonetheless.

[IH]

Sorry. Didn't copy and paste right it SHOULD say.

Reasoning for this? Or just more following what others do?

In other words I was repeating your question.

[IH]

No, he's actually at lynch -3.

vote:Per

oops. Now he's at -2.

Miyu. Anything to add?

[IH]

Pretty much I thought you scummy, but don't want you at minus 1 yet. It's too early, when you weren't at minus 1, or even minus 2, I don't want you to think that you're off yet. You're still in danger of being lynched.

Also the "It's a very dangerous situation for me" is called an appeal to emotion I believe. It's like saying "Don't lynch me, you'll be sorry!"

How will we know though? Sounds like a last ditch attempt to not get lynched, which sounds scummy.

Also, Me, Bigal, and Bertrand are the technical IC's I believe. Germy is a person who's played on another site, but I dunno if he's approved as IC. Kops has been talking, and I believe he's a newbie.

Seriously, don't take offense to it. Everyone has to learn.

[IH]

If you ask me and look at the contents: neither of them. Everyone would say town is in danger so actually I don't think such an argument would persuade anyone.

Also, it's a game. Seeing myself killed, would be an end of the fun.

This is true, which is why we're trying to tell you WHY it's bad. If you die as town, true you hurt the town's chances of winning.....
but if you're scum, it's even more dangerous for you to die, because you are already outnumbered, and give the town an automatic extra day.

unvote

for now.

[IH]

And even if he is pro-town, I don't know whether he's any use for us. Then again I haven't played a lot so I might be wrong on this one.

Lurker hunting=Bad

it's more likely you'll catch a townie more often than not. I believe the best course of action to get a lurker if they don't respond to pressure is simple.

Mod, can we have a prod please?

For those of you who don't know....

Votes=Suspicion. You think they're the best candidate for a lynch right now.
HoS(Handof suspicion)=(Rare) Step down from a vote, supposedly more drammatic. Nobody reall uses them.
FoS(Finger of Suspicion)=(Common)Step down from a vote. Used alot to express suspicion.
IGMEOY(I got my eye on you)=You're watching them closer. It can indicate suspicion, or the need for more information to draw a conclusion.

[IH]

1.A scum directed lynch?
2.It puts us at lylo with no info either way = (

[IH]

Also Meme doesn't just prod. Meme gets results, cause she's that awesome of a newbie mod.

(Waves)
Digesting these posts currently.

[IH]

....I need to go over the thread. Post by tomorrow.

[IH]

Yeah, longer days are good. However, I don't think that scum want a speedlynch. The best thing for scum is that there's no lynch at all, and believe me, I have seen games with no lynch on day 1.

That hurts town even more than lynching a townie because if you don't lynch on Day 1, you will still be with more around on Day 2, increasing the chance to make a wrong lynch again.

But taking another look at it, you might be right that we don't need a quick lynch. We do need a lynch, but it shouldn't be quick and I didn't think about that. However, I'm not going to change my vote (yet) because at the moment, there's only 2 votes for Germy and he's not in real danger.

By the way, IH, haven't you done exactly the same thing I did? You put a third vote on me, which might be causing a speedlynch.

And I'm not scum, just unexperienced.

You've seen plenty of games where scum want a no lynch, but you're not scum just inexperienced....

While I agree a speedy lynching is bad for the first page, I also think that a lynching needs to occur if possible.

The only people I want lynched are the mafia. If we lynch townies quickly, then we will be setting ourselves up for destruction. Quickly rushing for a lynch is always a bad sign. My vote was purely for discussionary purposes.

Per makes me think Mafia, but it could just be inexperience.

Wishywashyness IMO. Trying to satisfy both sides by "I agree speed lynching is bad, but we have to have a lynch" along with the moot statement "I only want people lynched who are in the mafia"

Seeing as picking at random the odds are in favor of the mafia, especially without them random voting, we really need to get long days with lots conversations to tip the balance in favor of the town. This means anyone who tries to quick lynches is probably either an inexperienced townie player or a scum.

So I will keep my vote where it is, as it isn't really affecting anything, but I point a finger of suspicion at both germy and Per, putting three votes on someone seems unusual.

Sorry if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, this is my first game...

A little bit of good posting from somneone in their first game, but the FOS seems like it's kind of arbitrary and just feels like he's following.

Actually, this statement is somewhat misleading.

Every Day that ends with a lynch (which is the goal) has had a "third vote" placed at least once.

In fact, one could argue, the only way to lynch scum is to place a third vote.

Granted, there is an appropriate time to place that vote. Certainly, Per's vote was not one of those times.

But I believe that a "third vote," in and of itself, is not suspicious: the timing of that vote, and the reasoning behind it, must be taken into account.

GOODPOSTINGGOODPOSTING!

But Germy did clearly state that it was lynch-1. Which I didn't and still have to apologize for.

But I'm going to ask you one question: why would scum put a third vote on someone this early while he knows that this is very suspicious and might get him lynched?

Now I hope this won't put even more suspicion on me because lynching me would be a mistake...

Wifom, as I already said.

For that matter, why would anyone do anything that is obviously suspicious? Whether or not someone is scum is largely irrelavent since both pro- and anti-town players want to avoid suspicion.

Now it seems to me that since you did do something so suspicious, it was obviously a beginner's mistake [but that's what these games are here for - learning]. Now I've got to ask myself, is this the type of thing that a scummy player or good player would be more likely to do?

Good posting.

When I placed the third vote on Per, I was doing more than generating discussion. bigAl's "random vote" was first on Per, and I have often seen mafia place their first random vote on their partner. By putting Per at three, I wanted to see if bigAl would immediately unvote. He didn't, which means I need not suspect bigAl and Per of being scum partners.

But now, because of bigAl's vote and keeping the vote when Per was at three... has made me more suspicious.

This confuses me. First you use Wifom-y logic to reason why Bigal and Per AREN'T partners... but, by keeping his vote there, you are now suspicious of Bigal.... did you notice that either way Bigal was scum?

I agree to your comments and I understand your vote for me now. Still, it was a very dangerous situation for me nonetheless.

Unvote (Germy)

Vote: BigAl

......Why the vote on Al? = /

Bertrand's post 41 is protown imo.

Not sure how I feel about Bigal right now.

That's a convincing argument. I can't say anything against that.

unvote

.....

Quite frankly; I find everyone suspicious! I think kaos' not being here often and not saying anything often is a bit suspicious. Then again that could also be said for me. But I am making an effort to be here and have something to say. I usually don't say anything unless I feel it is important or that I have a strong feeling about it.
unvote: germy

At this point, no one really sticks out in my mind as being overly suspicious.

See, here's another wishywashy post.

Her next one, post 59, does make a stance... of following everyone on voting Per. Of course, it's only valid IMO because... he seems scummy.

Per is still somewhat suspicious for various reasons, koas has posted too little to judge anything properly, germy has been agresive but not overwhelmingly scummy.

So based on that, do you find aggresiveness scummy?

65 is another wishywashy Miyu

Vote:Miyu, FoS:Per

As scum many times (Many MANY times) one of my biggest mistakes is/was to be extremely uncomittal and wishy washy to avoid suspicion, which made me even more suspicious. = )

[IH]

Of course, instead of pushing it back, it's been brought to the fore.

Why?

[IH]

Yeah, longer days are good. However, I don't think that scum want a speedlynch. The best thing for scum is that there's no lynch at all, and believe me, I have seen games with no lynch on day 1.

Excuse me Per, I thought that said plenty. Would you clarify as to how many games you've played, and where? = ) This is for pure meta reasons.

[IH]

Sorry, I didn't realize that posting that would be a bad thing... I just thought that doctor would be worst to lose because cops and vanilla townies can be protected by doctors, but doctors can't... I meant nothing by it, it was a stupid meaningless thing to post.

Thats IF the doctor can guess who the scum are going to target. Nothing is stupid or meaningless in this game except for random votes....

unvote, vote:Kaos, IGMEOY:Miyu

I don't think it's a shame. It shows that no-one is making any big mistakes so there's simply no reasons to get voted for.

My FoS on Miyu still stands and I don't know why, but I don't like BigAl, but I can't give any evidence against him so it's not even worth an FoS.

Nope. The almighty bestness of MeMe is correct! Inactivity should have no excuse!

[IH]

Pheh, I believe I'll do a reread by this weekend.

[IH]

I've already explained. I don't like how wishy washy you've been.

It's time to quit playing around.

unvote, vote:Miyu

[IH]

Alright, now that theres a deadline (Which isn't that surprising) we have a decision to make. Town NEEDS to make a lynch today. Nolynch is not the way to go I'd say, because town automatically limits themselves to a LYLO (lynch or lose) situation I believe.

In other words, WE NEED A LYNCH. I suggest Miyu or Per myself.

Mememod

, could we have a prod on Bertrand? That'd beeee greeeeaaat.

[IH]

OK, so we have our deadline lynch. That's a little relief at least. Miyu, if you're going to roleclaim, this is the time.

[IH]

No Miyu, this is different.

Per roleclaimed when it was unnecessary on day one.

If you're at lynch minus 1 and this close to a lynch, THIS IS THE TIME TO ROLECLAIM. The time Per almost did was not. Look at most games on the site when it gets close to a lynch, especially a deadline. It's time to claim. If you're town, it's not smart to false claim either.

I cite newbie 275 (as always) as to why vanilla (plain) townies should not claim a power role (Such as a doctor or a cop).

Please claim Miyu. = D

[IH]

Ah, sorry. I've got this game mixed up with another one where someone claimed vanilla in like the second page.

[IH]

unvote, vote:Kaos

And that's why you claim = D

[IH]

I'm not really feeling the Per wagon, but I'll move over to it before deadline hits if no one else is on Kaos at the moment.

[IH]

= |

unvote, vote:Per

I still feel that Kaos would be a better play for today myself....


I'm not sure which is more suspicious. I know that Per is new, so his mistakes are either scummy or newbish, and I'm not sure which... le sigh.

[IH]

..... = |

There are now two possibilities at the moment(for me at least).

PerXMiyu

BertrandXBigAl

Rereading to see if I can confirm this.

[IH]

EBWOP:Yes. That should be Kaos. = \

Miyu, who did you investigate last night? Kaos?

[IH]

While I agree a speedy lynching is bad for the first page, I also think that a lynching needs to occur if possible.

The only people I want lynched are the mafia. If we lynch townies quickly, then we will be setting ourselves up for destruction. Quickly rushing for a lynch is always a bad sign. My vote was purely for discussionary purposes.

Per makes me think Mafia, but it could just be inexperience.

= | I don't like this post at all. It feels to... wishy washy for my taste. "It's bad, but it's gotta happen. I only want scum lynched!"

bad vibe, though I kinda wanted to cut her some slack at the beginning, because I had a lot of posts like this one in my first game. It was like... walking on eggshells I thought, but it's clearly not. = )

It seems a bit unusual that you keep following people Per.

= |

IGMEOY: Miyu, if Per comes up town. He's an easy target at this point, and it seems very convenient of you to lurk for a while and then place a vote for preveously stated reasons.

Your thoughts now?

Ahh; I see. Everyone needs to keep their eye on everyone else. Usually people die when they get too trusting and take their eye off of someone. I know.. it is happening to me right now in another game. I took my eye off of someone for a moment and had it in another direction. So they took the opportunity to attack me.

I understand the concept of placing a vote on your teammate to avoid suspicion. But I don't like that. So far in my game playing experience; the two times which I was on the 'evil' side; I only once placed a vote on my teammate. That was only because my teammate said that it was okay; and that if I didn't the Suspicious Eye would be turned in my direction. They only said it was okay; because they were already way past having a majority vote on themselves.

Here's another post, trying to appear as town as possible. "Everyone needs to keep their eye on everyone else", then she suddenly goes on a tangent about bussing. = /

I voted Miyu not because I found her to be specifically suspicious, but because I wanted to find out what the reactions of other players would be. Bertrand's, actually. I expected a particular play that I would normally interpret as scummy, and it did not occur.

However, something else did. Vote: kaos.

Despite being new, I think he is purposefully lurking. He defended my vote against Miyu, despite no defense to be had. I interpreted this as scum seeing a chance to lay the groundwork against a townie. He saw my vote, and bertrand's leanings, yet does not want to place a second vote on Miyu. At least, not yet.

My thoughts right now: Miyu and bertrand more likely Town. More suspicious of kaos.

Please look closely at the above post

Post 99, Miyu defends herself by saying that's how she plays the game. = / I'm always wary of people trying to defend themselves over their playstyle...

I guess Per's comment could be seen as that of a power role, but we shouldn't force him to address it, I'm pretty sure that could only be bad for the town, especially if he is a doctor.

Fishfishfish.

Pheh, he then tries to explain it away by saying it's meaningless. When I told him it WASN'T meaningless, he agreed, and it kind of dissapated....

FoS:Kaos

Thanks for adding a deadline MeMe; hopefully it will light a fire under people.

Even if we get a lynch, odds are not exactly in our favor.

*shrug*

I don't care if you vote for me. I'm tired of defending myself. IH, you remind me of another player. He is 98 percent of the time evil, but is always helping out the townies as his cover story.

1.Thanks the mod for a deadline (?)
2.Subtly discredits me after string of posts between the newbies.

Post 147 tries to rectify the discrediting, but I'm not convinced.

Umm, germy; you need to unvote kaos before you vote for me.

IH, if I roleclaimed now; I would be naming myself a hypocrite. That was mainly my reason for voting against Per. Even if it might save myself, I don't think I will do it. Because if I did, I am sure everyone would come down on me.

germy, people were attacking my playing style, and Per was saying there was no proof as to my claims; so I provided proof. If someone is going to attack me regardless of the subject which they are attacking me on, I will defend myself.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what I say; I will be attacked, and thought of as scummy. While the real scum hide in the shadows. So I could care less if ya'all vote for me, I am tired of being attacked. Sorry townies.

Relcutance to claim. Laments people attacking her on her "playstyle" while the "scum lurk in the shadows".

Post 170 I see some scummy things from Kaos. The statement he doesn't want to bring attention to himself. He didn't post for a while until

this

post

unvote

Exactly.

vote Per

I think he's probably out best choice today.. but kaos' lack of being here annoys me.

Which makes me think he was purposefully lurking.

Post 176, Kaos uses process of elimination, saying he believes Germy and Bertrand are the most suspicious.
I also don't like this part of the post.

As for why you shouldn't lynch me, I think the main reason for my lynching is my lack of posting and good points, but I don't think any of you have given major reason for me being suspicious (if you have can you please point them out, thanks). So it is either a matter of lynching lurkers or suspicious people. I think its more beneficial for the town to get rid of scummy players. Both times you're risking lynching a townie, but one time you have more chance of getting a hit.

Looking at my post, my reasons for voting Bertrand don't seem all the obvious, so here they are:

-

The thing I explained in my previous post (giving reasons to vote others while voting for someone without giving reasons for that)

- Inactivity (4 posts in 14 days) which is not enough for voting by itself, but it does add up. I didn't explicitly state this in my previous post.

Important reason bolded by me. Bertrand did explain his reasoning, but.... It is a very good point that Per had brought up.


SUMMARY
Al-Towniest
Miyu-scummy, offset by cop claim. Under closer inspection tomorrow.
Bertrand-Townish. Few offset vibes, not much though.
Kaos-Scumscumscum

I'm confident in this, when I

vote:Kaos

[IH]

Sorry Al, I'm just confident enough to vote for Kaos at the moment. I'm pretty sure that KaosXBertrand/Miyu is scum.

[IH]

Seeing as how I'm sure I'm not scum, IH probably would have to be, or else I'd be dead right now (seeing as how everyone has seen the vote).

Fos: IH

Seeing as how I'm not sure you're scum, it can also be said that since everyone else has seen the vote on you, you're most certainly scum, can it not? = ) Why are you reluctant to vote for me Kaos? If you're that certain that I'm scum (as I am for you) then why wait?

[IH]

Alright people, just because Meme is gone doesn't mean we should slack. Lylo deadline is NOT good at all.

[IH]

....I feel very suspicious of Bertrand at the moment, and I still can't shake suspicion from miyu. Not only did her target convienetely be the one who was night killed, but her post afterwards was as if the scum knew who she was going to target. I don't see how she could get that kind of logic unless she was in amongst them, and trying to find an excuse.

I feel like Bertrand is riding out for a lynch...

[IH]

Miyu, the only way you'd have contact is if you were scum.

[IH]

Actually, he's saying that I'm throwing suspicion on people, just to clarfiy Kaos.

I believe this is fallacious though, as I think I've cited posts for most of my points against people... unless you mean lack of activity.

not only that, I want Bertrand to point out where he thinks I am doing this. = )

[IH]

If you didn't notice Bertrand, 209 was a reread.

Miyu is offset by her claim.... I'd personally say she's a better day 3 lynch.

I have hardly seen anything scummy from BigAl. He's inquisitive and scum hunting.

#9:This was a speculation. I believe I said YOU were more on the lurky side, seeming to try and ride out a lynch.

[IH]

I also have evidence suggesting he is mafia (me not being dead and me knowing I'm not mafia). So I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I can also say the same about you Kaos.

[IH]

Anticlimatic, or climatic?

[IH]

See Bigal, there was a doc! pheh, we messed up in our calculations and such the first night though, we were talking like Kaos got lynched. It messed me up, which is one reason I think I got lynched.

[IH]

Nah, I would have gotten you lynched Per. That's one reason I got lynched on day 2 I think, because I lacked a decent case against anyone, and I was tired of the game stalling.

Al, sorry, I should have attacked you more, but the majority of the town was so sure you were protown that I just didn't risk it = D

Probably we could have gotten Kaos to join in with you and me Al, but I figured Bertrand would have been easier to convince, since Kaos had made more mistakes and such. Bah. Oh well, winnage. Good game all!