Themed or not themed

[Dasquian]

Gay Mafia I didn't even see as being Mafia. The basic principle of Mafia is a large, disorganised rabble vs a small, empowered group of infiltrators. That just wasn't there in Gay Mafia - there was no town to appeal to, no "bad guys" to root out. I/D mafia I think was probably themed on balance. The rule changes seemed significant enough to not count as a Normal game, even though the setting was pretty vanilla.

I have a quick question though - how much leeway is there with original roles in a Normal game? I have one coming up, and there'll be no major depatures from the basic mafia framework but I want to know how far I can depart from the "standard" basic roles.

[Dasquian]

I guess it depends on the content of the game. I'm not in it or even vaguely following it, so I guess it's OK for me to comment - it looks like a normal mafia dressed up with a foresty sort of theme so I'd say that it's unthemed. Even though it's... um... themed.

I see "themed" theme games as being based on a specific set of characters, usually with a number of original roles and mechanics woven in to fit the theme, whereas Arbor is just a "flavour". I'd default to Norinel's definition of needing to know something about the game's chosen theme to play it optimally to determine themed-ness

[Dasquian]

I wouldn't call any of those "themed", as they're all easily describable in a single line with reference to basic mafia roles. I don't think they'd work particularly well though, and as such might be so far out of whack of the normal mafia game dynamic that they deserve to be shepherded away from the Normal Games section.

Half SK / Half Vig - this would be murder. I would be surprised if the winner/s won through anything but dumb luck. I suspect that it would not be a particularly satisfying game.
3 SK vs townies - this would work OK, but you're losing an important aspect of mafia games which is the "evil functions as a team" element. Also the increased number of opposed anti-town killers will probably count in the town's favour - I'm guessing it's very likely that one if not two SKs will be killed in the night.
4x three-man-mafia families - this idea is a common one and I don't think it works or is much fun. It tends to kill the basic mafia dynamic of appealing to a majority who are all pretending to be on the same side, and so lynches become a bit random.
2 SK, 2 vig, townies - could work fine. I think the SK's will be lucky to survive, but it'd make an interesting challenge. The biggest threat to this setup is the inherent randomness of four independent killing parties.
No cop/doc/etc - has been done, and works very nicely. See I think Mini 77

I think having an "uninformed majority" is essential for a fun game. This more than anything is the essence of Mafia, IMO.

[Dasquian]

I agree with Polarboy - although I stand by my belief that your games aren't "themed" in the literal sense of the word, he's right that "non-themed" also implies a certain standardness of gameplay that these ideas wouldn't have and, as such, should be classified along with themed games.

I suspect your idea of SK team vs vig town is unplayable... I'm certain there'd be some way for the SK's to organise themselves to wipe out the town in Night 2. In fact, it'd be dead easy. One SK would stand up on Day 1, and order the players in any way s/he sees fit. They'd then instruct the other SKs to kill their matching townie (ie, the first SK on the list would kill the first vig on the list, the second SK would kill the second vig, etc). The vigs have no idea who the other SK's are, but the SK's are fully organised and can mop up easily on Day 2, if there is one.

[Dasquian]

Vigilantes killing left right and centre tend to shorten the game drastically (even your standard large game, if there's one vig killing every night from Night 2 onwards, the game is probably going to be in end-game by Day 4). By shortening the game, there's less vocal discussion about how to proceed, fewer days in which to see new reactions, new bandwagons, etc. So vigs definitely should be more hesitant to kill as it isn't just about thinning numbers - the daytime discussion is the crux of the game.

That said I'm not sure I entirely agree that one-shot vigs are practically equivalent to unlimited vigs. While it's true that many good vigs do hold back and shoot only once or twice a game, I suspect that one-shot vigs are

even more hesitant

and hold back that one shot for a special occasion, knowing that if they get it wrong, they won't get a chance to make things better. This is just a gut feeling though, I can't actually back it up