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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 3:13 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

it's not at all improbable to set yourself to waffle on your read and try to vote somebody else to shift attention. Saying you STILL think he is town doesn't prove you did anything at all to evaluate your reads.

Interesting points about post 540.

1. you don't mention Huntress like you claim you did (in fact the only time Huntress appears in your iso during that time is post 514 when you explain you are re-evaluating your reads and the next time the name appears is all the way in post 753) -
Lie much?
- oh wait, you will just say you were "mistaken" right?

2. You say in post 540 that veggie wasn't voting anyone which is also a lie as shown in the vote count in post 542 where vegie is absolutely voting someone, and I am pretty sure you know he is voting someone because in that very same post you accuse him of
"and it makes me think he is just trying to push through a lynch once and for all
If he isn't voting someone how can he also be trying to push a lynch through?


Also why did you not vote Havingfitz? Thor even asked you why you thought fitz was town in post 541, but you never answered him. The fact that you mis-repped veggie (now confirmed town) only shows scum motivation not town motivation.

the fact that you claim you re-evaluated your reads and even claimed that you posted them in a post where you actually didn't, is not town motivated either. It's just bold face lying. You didn't re-evaluate shit.

I also want to point out this quote from you in post 514
his Day Three opening post ("my suspect died, what to do?") which is something I think comes from scum more often than Town,
if you HONESTLY felt that, why no pressure on havingfitz? Why question Thor's vote on havingfitz? why not join the Havingfitz wagon or at the very least QUESTION him?

you have soft defended havingfitz for most of the game leading up to that point

post 238 - attack hiraki for voting havingfitz
post 254 - soft defending him by asking Hiraki why he isn't understaning havingfitz's posts
post 299 - sticking up for havingfitz cause you feel hiraki is attacking his grammar instead of substance
post 353 - defending yourself/hiraki/mert from mike's false accusation of TV
post 514 - you basically question both people voting havingfitz
post 575 - This is a weird comment "They are points to be made against you, but seeing as I have asked Thor665 to elaborate to see if there is a better case and I did not vote for you" (The reason why it is weird is you seem to have no problem putting Rach at L-2 yet you wanted a more concise case on fitz before you were willing to put him at L-2)

I see you defending a lot of other players still alive and attacking a lot of players who are all dead and were town.

vote: pj


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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:32 am

Post by havingfitz »

Mod...I know you said there is no deadline but that's not going to work.  Please provide a deadline.  We need to agree to a lynch (on scum) a a no lynch would = scum win.  A deadline will ~help keep us focused.


Since the game seems to be in the doldrums at the moment I'm going to look at PJ because of Jake's push on him combined with some things I've noticed in PJ's posts that make me go hmmmmmmmmmmm??

is the first explicit mention from you of DCL being a townread that I can find.  Unless the numerous previous issues/suspicions (41, 55, 242, 353, stemming from other's actions wrt DCL could be interpreted as your town read on him. 

Also, the only explanation of why you think DCL is town that I can find is you think he is "lynchbait" and because he suspects Llama (and scum would never do that)...which is essentially the same logic I applied to suspecting Thos after his entrance.  Scum wouldn't keep him a live = scum wouldn't continually go after Llama. 
If you think that logic is a why isn't it a strike against DCL? 

In you reiterate that DCL is your town town read but that
you can't explain it well.


Then...in you tell Jake you have explained why your read on DCL is town several times.  Are you referring to your infrequent mention of him being town because he is lynchbait and as scum, would not go after Llama?  Or was there other reasoning explained several times?  I will agree you have been giving DCL townread treatment the entire game but you have not explained why IMO as you affirm.

Other points I found interesting:

I do not care for PJs repeated broaching of the "taboo topic" of nightkills.  Especially with as odd (as I assume the general consensus would consider them) our NK's have been. 

In you use meta (against your own wishes) to address something with mikeburnfire.  I find it funny that in your 1st point to mbf you use the fact that your play has changed over the last six/seven years to answer something and then immediately proceed (in the 2nd point) to undermine something mbf had said by saying if your play was drastically different in this game from a game you played with mbf as scum...how does that make sense?

To summarize that last point...PJ infers his game has changed a lot in the last six/seven years...then uses the fact that he is playing differently in this game from a scum game with mbf SIX/SEVEN years ago to weaken a point from mbf.  :?

The last thing wrt PJ that made me go hmmmmm was his comment at the end of where he voted Jake.  PJ says he is happier to vote Jake (despite no previous suspicions I can find towards the Mert/Jake slot) than to vote me over DCL.  Here he is acknowledging he was "eventually" "going to have to vote" me because it was either me or DCL on whom he has had such a consistent (albeit not easily explained several times) townread.  So we're in LYLO...game on the line.  Prior to this post the only votes in play were me and DCL crossvoting...and yet your only option in your mind is apparently voting me over DCL because you don't want to have to vote DCL?  WTF?  Don't you have any real suspects in this game?  There are three scum left and you are resigned to "eventually" voting me because I'm not DCL?

Did you have a case on me?

Instead of compromising and "eventually" voting me...why not make a case on someone else?  I realize you recently have on Jake but you obviously had the DCL or me dichotomy already locked in.  Why resign to doing something (in LYLO no less) that you appear conflicted about when you could have tried to find scum that did not include DCL or I.  And as far as I can see...your only suspicion of Jake is due to his suspicions towards you (OMGUS <---buzzword alert) and DCL (your not easily explained several times townread).

Lastly...PJ...do you find Jake's push on you (if you were town) to be more likely to come from scum or town?  You categorize yourself with Llama in regards to noteriety but while you are willing to call DCL town for his suspicions towards Llama...why not a similar thought process wrt to Jake's suspicions towards you?  Surely scum would pick an easier target than you to go after?

So yeah, I can see PJ as scum.  He's another one who has been on every mislynch and I find the points I raise above very suspect. 

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Still prefer DCL but PJ would be my alternate choice at this point.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:35 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

I second implementation of a deadline
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:37 am

Post by havingfitz »

For what it's worth, I hadn't seen the last two posts prior to my last one.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:55 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

@ Thor - you claim you have done so much this day phase right?

Spoiler:
669 - VCA (this is null because I have seen scum do this before and it doesn't really prove anything)
670 - useless post
673 - responding to others
675 - a post
676 - respond to DCL and ask him what the case on llama was from the previous day cause you may sheep it(this right here is not what Town thor has done in lylo so this is an IMMEDIATE RED FLAG imo)
677 - useless speculation about pairings
679, 680, 683, & 684 - asking me a question about another game
690 - asks fitz a couple of questions, one of them sort of a softball question
692 - "so you wanna lynch llama?" - this adds to 676, town thor would be doing more to make a case on llama, you aren't making any case
714 - responding to people
715 - useless fluff post trying to discredit a player (scummy)
717 - responding to someone
734 - responding to people, still no effort for a case on anyone, especially llama
737 - usless fluff
738 - more trying to discredit a player instead of trying to find scum - this also implies you know I am town cause you are trying to insult my town play, if you thought I was scum you would not have said that comment (scummy and basically confirms you are scum imo)
770 - responding to me and the funniest thing ever "'I've done the most work" because 1. you haven't, I have done more "work" than you and 2. that implies "ooh I can't possibly be scum, look at me i am scumhunting and shit"


Thor is another acceptable lynch imo
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:33 am

Post by DCLXVI »

@mert, who do you think is NOT an acceptable lynch.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:34 am

Post by DCLXVI »

I mean jake... smh...
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:38 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

today?

I only want to lynch Thor or PJ so anyone else I don't really want to lynch
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:53 am

Post by havingfitz »

In post 719, Jake from State Farm wrote:I'm near 100% dC is scum though.
In post 782, Jake from State Farm wrote:today?

I only want to lynch Thor or PJ so anyone else I don't really want to lynch
:neutral:
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:00 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

It's almost like you haven't see my posts that explain why I changed my stance on DC and why I thought PJ/Thor are scum...
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:14 am

Post by havingfitz »

In post 784, Jake from State Farm wrote:It's almost like you haven't see my posts that explain why I changed my stance on DC and why I thought PJ/Thor are scum...
"you know being a dick doesn't help, if you are town."

Where does your stance on DCL change?
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:16 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.

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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:21 am

Post by greygnarl »

Deadline will be Sunday the 18th.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:22 am

Post by havingfitz »

All that does is point out you were mistaken in others' reads on DCL. Unless that is what your case on DCL was...the views of others...the post you link to shows no change in opinion from you that I can see.

Since I could very easily have missed it...could you quote the specific change of heart?

Pedit....
mod...any particular time or should we shoot for midnight on the 17th to be safe?????
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:26 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

When I replace in and we have a bunch of dead townies and no scum, I immediately look at who the dead suspected. 9 times out if 10 a pattern can be spotted as scum usually want to kill the people suspicious of them.

I still don't fully trust DCL but I don't think he's a good lynch today
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 7:46 am

Post by DCLXVI »

Really fitz, it didn't take me long to find this. like 30 seconds or so
In post 696, Jake from State Farm wrote:so going through a few ISOs, especially the dead (NK'd) people and I am pretty sure scum is DCL/Thor
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 10:21 am

Post by havingfitz »

In post 790, DCLXVI wrote:Really fitz, it didn't take me long to find this. like 30 seconds or so
In post 696, Jake from State Farm wrote:so going through a few ISOs, especially the dead (NK'd) people and I am pretty sure scum is DCL/Thor
What are you saying you found DCL? Was that the only reason he suspected you? IDFK if it is or not. His reasons for initially suspecting you weren't important to me because I already did suspect you. My point was to understand why his read on you had changed....which he claimed was evident in his reading...and IMO was not. Thanks for chiming in though.
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 10:54 am

Post by DCLXVI »

His reason for suspecting me was that he thought the dead people suspected me.
When he iso'd people he found that that reason wasn't true.
therefor he doesn't suspect me (at least not enough to want to vote me)

how does that not make sense to you? It seems straightforward to me.

vote:fitz
Thank-you for again making me feel fine with voting you.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 1:24 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Yeah ready for something that im pretty sure is unexpected?

Im not only NOT going to vote DCL, but im also going to lay down the first second vote.

Vote Fitz


I really think its him and Thor. Last one I really am not too sure on, basically "not DCL" is all I can come up with. This is mostly based on today though and the way the game has progressed which what im sure was expected to be a crossvote of me and DCL. Then look at the Fitz and Thor approach to the situation.

I think DCL nails it in this post:
In post 703, DCLXVI wrote:Fitz's backtracking on his supsicioun of thor solely for the purpose of making me look bad so he can try to get me lynched is extremely scummy. He needs to die today.
I really don't think that fitz expected not only me to hang onto my vote when the DCL wagon started, but also DCL to return the vote instead of try and argue him off or vote me. In either situation I would be the expected fail vote on a DCL-town lynch since I have been pushing him as scum since partway through the second day. Fitz starts calling Thor scum WITH DCL and saying he is far more interested in DCL wagon. On its own that's not enough really but then you factor in what Thor does when DCL and Fitz vote eachother.

Nothing.

Infact he starts trying to push action elsewhere but
wont vote elsewhere himself
. He had been calling fitz scum for a while, even voting him (granted when it was fairly likely RM was getting lynched over fitz) at the end of the last day. Now he has no interest in the lynch? Its me or Jake? When fitz is being voted by "townread DCL" and he is voting townread DCL? It does not at all read like the reaction of town with the reads he claimed to have.

There is even no attempt to pull the wagon OFF of DCL and that's the bigger tell of the two of them scum together really. Its a massive shift in reads that suddenly puts "good lynch" in a "yeah not today" pile and keeps him quiet with his town read getting a vote. Its scum all over.

If you want to pull NKs too DCL is probably town for the CDB one. CDB was defending him, not sure scum takes a defender out like that especially with no intention of going after me who most of the game has some form of a scumread on.
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 2:34 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

In post 649, LlamaFluff wrote:Vote RM

By virtue of not being Fitz.[/
quote]
In post 693, LlamaFluff wrote:While I still instinctively want to vote DCL I really don't think voting early is a good thing.

Probably something like

One of DCL/
Fitz

Two of Thor/Jake/PJ

With Hunt left as town.

Going to read some over the next few days. While I think DCL is most likely scum idependantly... the fact that if im right about Hunt-town means it would be better to vote elsewhere. I dunno maybe im overthinking it.
In two back to back posts llama goes from anyone but fitz, to fitz has a 50-50 chance of being scum. Llama has not explained why this changed.

unvote:fitz
(in the off chance that he is town...)
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

The reason llama is voting fitz is post 702, which had not happened when llama switched from fitz must be town so we should lynch anyone but him, to he may be 50-50.

@llama, what changed between post 649 and 693 that made you drop your apparently very solid town read of fitz?
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 2:52 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

In post 795, DCLXVI wrote:@llama, what changed between post 649 and 693 that made you drop your apparently very solid town read of fitz?
The two of you voting eachother and the way that Thor played into it is the core part. I would readily vote either of them at this point since I think they are both going to flip scum. Really the flips are more of a minor part but its the thought process and actions that are displayed today which is why I think they are scum.

Despite seeming to call eachother scum for most of the game, they both immediately back out of voting the other at the start of the day. You pair that with Thor managing not only to completely ignore the crossvote situation (when he thinks you are "obviously town") and seeming to try and move votes elsewhere without actually throwing out the vote (ala PJ/Jake) I think they are scum together, and the reason we are both alive is so one of us mislynches the other. The play of the two of them doesn't make sense as town.

Really though its both of them. There are very basic reactions that I would expect town to make that are not really displayed by the two of them. While they are less congruent with what I would expect from Thor-town than fitz-town, Thor-scum wouldn't be trying to deflect things away from you vs fitz as he would if fitz was town. Why try and start dragging me and Jake into it unless one of you were scum as well.

Basically its Thor and Fitz or its you. Im increasingly sure of the former.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by havingfitz »

I'm town so that Llama vote on me looks fcuking scummy as hell. And Llama....DCL didn't nail anything wrt to my opinion of Thor. I suspected Thor yesterday and maintained that suspicion at the beginning of today. Since today has started he has faded a bit further behind DCL (and now PJ).
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 3:03 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

In post 796, LlamaFluff wrote:
In post 795, DCLXVI wrote:@llama, what changed between post
649 and 693
that made you drop your apparently very solid town read of fitz?
The two of you voting eachother
and the way that Thor played into it is the core part. I would readily vote either of them at this point since I think they are both going to flip scum. Really the flips are more of a minor part but its the thought process and actions that are displayed today which is why I think they are scum.
LIE
In post 703, DCLXVI wrote:Fitz's backtracking on his supsicioun of thor solely for the purpose of making me look bad so he can try to get me lynched is extremely scummy. He needs to die today.

vote:fitz
That could not have been your reason because I didn't vote fitz till after you made that post.

Have fun trying explain that llamascum

How could your motivation for thinking fitz was scum be a crossvote that had yet to have happened? I'm smelling a huge stinking pile of BS right here. I actually never said anything before 693 that would imply I was going to vote fitz over llama or that I was having doubts on my llama read.
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Thu May 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

In post 798, DCLXVI wrote:How could your motivation for thinking fitz was scum be a crossvote that had yet to have happened? I'm smelling a huge stinking pile of BS right here. I actually never said anything before 693 that would imply I was going to vote fitz over llama or that I was having doubts on my llama read.
He had voted you, which ment both of you were probably not town (not to mention meaning what it would leave). The ensuing crossvote basically affirmed that thought. My statement is exactly that, him voting you made it likely one of you were scum. Subsequent actions reiterated that assumption, and as I have said quite a bit its the way that Thor and fitz have played since that point which makes it most likely which even starts with 692 where Thor tries to guide your response vote my direction instead of to fitz.
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