Mini 1446, Generic Mafia (Game Over)

[T S O]

Vote: Fegelein

Who the hell is Hordak?

[T S O]

ok hoopla is town

HD might be scum

lets get more votes on horus wooo

seems like soft omgus there

[T S O]

Except I'm voting him when Palmar gives me a valid explanation.

Both your cases are silly, so there's not really a 'valid explanation', but the way you say 'when' instead of 'if' really feels like you know Palmar's alignment.

Doubling down on your read of me when called out also feels overdefensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fegelein

As opposed to what? "If Palmar gives me an explanation" implies there's a chance he won't. If he doesn't then he will probably be lynched. That's ridiculous semantics.

[T S O]

You can only judge a player on his own actions? Not really. If I give you as a townread and I flip scum, we look at you. And I have to say, Horus's wording is hilariously bad in that, it sounds manufactured as fuck and makes him seem like he wants to give the vote and is just waiting for an opportunity.

[T S O]

Scum

Zhero
T S O
Horus

Ok with lynching

Zhero
T S O
Horus

What a stupid post, you just try to reaffirm it by posting it twice. If I'm going to be called scum, at least say why.

[T S O]

I could see CES scum, but I'm pretty sure TSO is like definitely scum

Why?

[T S O]

ok hoopla is town

HD might be scum

lets get more votes on horus wooo

seems like soft omgus there

See I'm not sure where the fuck he gets this OMGUS thing from and he never explains it even when asked to.

It was bad oversight on my behalf. Bacde said "HD might be scum" and I read it as a soft backlash to a vote or something like that.

Except I'm voting him when Palmar gives me a valid explanation.

Both your cases are silly, so there's not really a 'valid explanation', but the way you say 'when' instead of 'if' really feels like you know Palmar's alignment.

Doubling down on your read of me when called out also feels overdefensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fegelein

As opposed to what? "If Palmar gives me an explanation" implies there's a chance he won't. If he doesn't then he will probably be lynched. That's ridiculous semantics.

I agree with this point actually, Zhero's push here is kinda bad, and if he's scum I don't think TSO would call out his scumbuddy so blatantly on it.

You can only judge a player on his own actions? Not really. If I give you as a townread and I flip scum, we look at you. And I have to say, Horus's wording is hilariously bad in that, it sounds manufactured as fuck and makes him seem like he wants to give the vote and is just waiting for an opportunity.

Scum

Zhero
T S O
Horus

Ok with lynching

Zhero
T S O
Horus

What a stupid post, you just try to reaffirm it by posting it twice. If I'm going to be called scum, at least say why.

I'm not sure if this is town genuinely frustrated by the fact that he's being called scum for no discernible reason or scum frustrated that they've been caught for no discernible reason.

I just do not understand where Bacde's assurance I am scum is coming from, though his insistence on drawing it back to me every time is really beginning to raise my suspicions.
"hd what do you think of TSO?"
after a post which doesn't hammer me as Bacde would like
"hd are you scum with TSO?
He seems to be sure I'm scum from ....nearly nothing at all.

I seriously don't think Zhero is his partner though, at the very least. I could see a TSO/Horus team though? Third could be Palmar or Fegelein at this point.

I could see CES scum, but I'm pretty sure TSO is like definitely scum

Why?

See above

Scum

Zhero
T S O
Horus

Ok with lynching

Zhero
T S O
Horus

Bacde gives 0 reasons why these are his reads, and just writes them twice for no reason. How on Earth could that look town?

@Bacde: why, in the above post, was I scum?

[T S O]

Nah, that wasn't what I asked. Why was I on the scum list in the first place?

[T S O]

Sorry mang, I'll do it in future.

[T S O]

Unvote, vote: TSO

The naked vote.
Bacde, that seems coincidental and tacked-on. Not town =/= scum. That's a basic definition, and one you know. Not buying that at all.

[T S O]

Unvote, vote: TSO

The naked vote.
Bacde, that seems coincidental and tacked-on. Not town =/= scum. That's a basic definition, and one you know. Not buying that at all.

what is tacked on and coincidental?

I don't even know what you are talking about

You didn't see me as town, so you said I was scum. Would you not put me as null? It seems tacked on because it's a very handy answer. You couldn't seem to find any scummy posts so you used that response instead.

Fegelein and IFM, please contribute.

@roflcopter: does it make a difference to you that ces has nakedvoted 3 times this game? eg. it's a thing he does?

[T S O]

"hey guys I'm T S O and I'm scum and i'm not gonna post anything in the thread because pretending to be town is tough work"

basically you get the idea

feg/beastcharizard I'm choosing to ignore your useless interaction until later

if you want to be objective, sure. relentless tunnelling is fun.

Yeah, let's lynch TSO.

subtle one there!

[T S O]

Spoiler:

Hooplawagons are boring.

Vote: Ankamius

Zhero knows what's what.

You're never going to be as cool as Hoopls, Ank. Sorry.

I think it's more like third best on average.

Vote: Bacde

Why were you busy wanting to not get lynched, hmm?

Rephrase: why are you busy being scum?

The moment's gone. We're just going to have to buckle down and scumhunt.

That seems like a scummy misspelling.

Unvote, vote: Horus

Hoopls, want to switch over to beastcharizard with me?

(See his justification for voting in #77.)

I am pretty sure people have been getting on each other for not giving reasons for votes and then you do this?

That's not really happening, just fyi.

Unvote, vote: TSO

Uninspired.

Scum pretend to scumhunt or try to look as if they are scumhunting, yes. It's definitely possible to tell the difference.

^thats a stretch, and now you're answering for zhero why exactly?

I wasn't answering anything.

Why were you a bad wagon at that time, bearing in mind this was before you explained? Also, just because Zhero is reading the game in detail does not make him Town. It doesn't make anyone more Town. In fact, scum are far more likely to be immersed into the game itself instead of lurking. Scum love to manipulate.

Scumhunting (which involves reading in detail) is a town tell.

"You were answering, ergo you were answering on Zhero's behalf." I don't have a clue how you're coming up with this stuff; how is Zhero even a part of that conversation?

Boring town tells are the best town tells, just fyi.

Aren't you supposed to be a good player, 'copter?

Aren't you supposed to be a good player, 'copter?

look everyone! such a clever ad hom.

I could've been wrong. That would've been nice to know.

Was I not supposed to take a look at TSO when you "marked" him? I'm not really seeing where the scum intent is supposed to be in any of the things you mentioned.

Fegelein and IFM, please contribute.

TSO-Fegelein looks too good; this is such a classic.

And I'm waiting for you to give reasoning on me that has any depth, 'copter.

JS, I've played a game with scum Beast (although he was new), and he was playing very much like this (attempting to act reasonable and pro-town)

What is this in response to?

And you addressed the Mod because?

What a dumb abbreviation. Oh well, your explanation did seem to make too much sense for an accidental post.

Why not TSO, Hoopls?

HD, it makes more sense to sheep me. Rofl's stuff is a pretty good example of reasoning that fails the "Is X the kind of player that would actually do this as scum?"-test.

Yeah, let's lynch TSO.

i'm coming around to the reasoning about you. you've been lazy and shoot down a lot of things, but don't really contribute much yourself, despite saying you want to see scumhunting.

I'm being a bit lazy, yes. That's a town tell for me. I'm also being somewhat hypocritical (although I rarely post as much content as I produce as you know) but that's not a scum tell.

you haven't given much reasoning on tso, so you're going to need to drop some knowledge to convince me to switch.php?p=4930960#p4930960]post 266[/url], Cogito Ergo Sum

The #1 tell you use for newbies is whether they're scumhunting. TSO is decidedly not. He's still on his post 1 vote, not pushing scum, trying to be objective, his use of language suggests a detached perspective. Dude's scum.

Explaining things is very unnatural for me.

You're right, I am a newbie. So me being "detached" is acceptable. You joined in 2005. You have Town awards. So why in your ISO is there not one post which is actually scum hunting? After seeing it's between us for the noose your last 3 posts have been tunnelling my vote, when you haven't even made a post about my play, you simply sheeped Bacde and naked voted me. You make one good point at least: my vote has been on Fegelein for too long.

Unvote
Vote Cogito Ergo Scum

S

p

o

i

l

e

r

e

d

f

o

r

P

e

o

p

l

e

t

h

a

t

d

o

n

'

t

l

i

k

e

s

c

r

o

l

l

i

n

g

.

~

J

S

[T S O]

what I like just posted bs

anyway

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CES

sheeping rofl

and I already said stuff earlier and I don't feel like repeating go away

You know, I was just doing ISO's on random people and I found this. Looking through the game it's very easy to miss, but up until that point HD had not interacted with CES once, or "said stuff earlier". The bit at the end makes it worse - he's never even made a case on CES and to get round that, he says he doesn't want to repeat.

Also, looking through Hoopla's ISO, he seems to read Horus/Zhero as scum the whole game, I appreciate this is WIFOM, but it's still worth stating.

[T S O]

Infinity is probably town, and TSO is still the best vote. His CES vote was pretty opportunistic, and Ank's vote on him at the end of the day looks like a bus to me.

VOTE: TSO

This is pretty bad, as they go. "My vote looks opportunistic?" There were 2 people being lynched, and it was me and CES. I know I'm a Townie and I didn't know the alignment of CES, so it was a 100% chance to lose a Townie for me, as opposed to a lower probability to CES. I don't understand what you would have had me done - kept my vote which had been placed on the RVS and allowed myself to be lynched?

And then there's the good old CES town/Zhero scum CES scum/Zhero town tell. He flipped town, didn't he?

But then voting you would be putting you at L-1 so early, and I'm not a fan of L-1's. I'm going to place a vote after I re-read.

[T S O]

TSO's really being opportunistic at the moment, stating he'll jump on the largest wagon today, while also jumping on the largest wagon yesterday that wasn't him to save his bacon.

but up until that point HD had not interacted with CES once, or "said stuff earlier". The bit at the end makes it worse - he's never even made a case on CES and to get round that, he says he doesn't want to repeat.

VOTE: CES

No such thing as a boring wagon.

Sup Bacde

I'm rereading entirely and now I think CES looks kinda bad in his exchange with you

He just gives me that "I'm slapping on reasons to call you scum that don't really exist" vibe

Do you agree?

Would you like to try again, this time with something that makes sense?

I'll get you a medal for your RVS vote right after I laugh at you for pretending it's actually a valid in-game interaction which constitutes voting.
Your second point is admittedly valid, but it's all you've got. There were multiple wagons going on around you at that time yet you chose to hop in CES's, for one post where you felt he "was slapping things on?" If I was voting, I'd have a more concrete reason than that.

[T S O]

@Fegelein: it would be hard to be more wrong. I have deliberately

not

jumped onto the largest wagon of today, as I'm going to re-read. Point 2 was explained already.

[T S O]

Palmar, TSO is probtown. Join the horus wagon please.

Horus, do you hold that you've done nothing scummy all game?

sure I'm not going to be very productive anyway

UNVOTE: T S O
VOTE: Horus

So you vote me, and then blankly unvote and vote Horus, with no reasoningg either time? Come on Palmar, you're better than this.

Ugh, generally losing interest in the game. Someone present the case against Horus here.

The case was presented already, see above.

[T S O]

Intent to hammer. Claim, Horus.

[T S O]

Also I have to say that this feels ridiculously easy. Too easy. I know HD will probably bring this post back up later to say I knew he was Town/Scum, but no-one's offered tangible resistance.

[T S O]

Hmmm.

Remind me what a Neighbouriser is? Is it a Mason type character?

[T S O]

I can tell you, I'm not a 1-shot Vigi.

[T S O]

I see Fegelein as a person who's not afraid to put down decisive gambits. I wouldn't put that past him, especially since I'd already stated intent, so it's highly doubtful Horus would have survived.

Funny story. I was a PL in one forum game with him and Fegelein was the BG. Town was being massacred so Fegelein claimed neutral to try to root out some bads, though I didn't know this at the time. The two of us stupidly forgot Mafia was connected, leading me to PM him an excellent Beethoven claim. He then got me lynched in the thread and died the next night.

Point is, he's certainly not afraid to play riskily. If I was him, I'd have hammered too.

I doubt the serial killer would forget to send in a kill. Either we have a 1-shot Vigi or SK got PL'd/Jailkeeper made a nice play. You would assume that with us having an Odd-Night Tracker and Neighbouriser, we still have one or two decent roles (possibly an odd night Vigi?)

Sorry for set-up speculation but yeah.

Also, does anyone else think that when Horus knew he was gonna be lynched, he set up a Beast mislynch by saying Beast was "obv-town?"

[T S O]

* If I was his scumpartner, I'd have hammered too.

[T S O]

Hey, this is the scumgame of Beast.

http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthr ... pls/page10

I'm the partner of page 10 who came in and fakeclaimed. Still think my fakeclaim could have worked were it not for my cataclysmic mistake in not giving results. >_>
The guy who was the actual Cop, TIWSS, is possibly the best player I've ever played with in terms of not knowing his alignment. His town meta is the exact same as his Mafia one
Anyway, it went to LyLo and Fegelein (yeah, this current Mafia had 3 or 4 playing in that one) hammered the guy (braveswin) who I, when knowing I'd be lynched, breadcrumbed that he was Town, which when I flipped made him seem like my partner. Fun game.

[T S O]

Well, the good news either Bacde or Palmar should be scum/SK, as Bacde has said he's not Vigi.
Bad news is now we have to 50/50.
Was Infinity targeted last night?

Oh Beast, where was I answering for Feg?

[T S O]

actually I presumed that

let me check

[T S O]

TSO is town. Read his ISO and tell me that's noob scum.

Scum is in {palmar, Rofl, beast}.

Should we just massclaim? If there's an SK they will just claim vig and the info about whether there's a doc will help us determine if there's a vig or an SK.

If the vig claims, then yes we should massclaim

if not, then probably not, because that would indicate an SK OR that the vig doesn't want to out

the tone this is wrote in certainly suggests that he's not Vigi.

[T S O]

The whole giving the link to my awesome scum play when Feg was supposed to do it.

Well, it was just being helpful. I didn't say it was good or bad, I simply gave a link so Infinity could see it faster.

[T S O]

how the fuck

wait let me get my head round what happened

[T S O]

So no-one has claimed Vigi as of yet
Palmar claims JOAT
rofl claims E-N Watcher

Palmar is implicating Bacde
rofl is implicating Palmar

I cannot see possible motivation for rofl-scum to do this.

thoughts?

[T S O]

Well, it would appear we're all pretty certain of Bacde-scum

unless you guys were like cult masons or something I can't see how this would be co-ordinated, so it seems legit.

so rofl you're sure Bacde is scum?

[T S O]

unless bacde's lying. then we're fucked.

[T S O]

If Bacde tried to kill Infi and then it failed, then Infi either had a BG or is BF. He hasn't claimed BF, so he probably had a BG. If he had a BG then rofl is lying and Palmar is town.

Vote Bacde

Thanks for helping us but we're playing 50/50 shots here and you're a 100 shot. if pal really is JOAT then he can roleblock rofl and we'll know for certain. IN THE MEANTIME WE GET THE CONF SK.

[T S O]

I'm a VT btw. and we should really get Bacde, who seems to be fucking around with us right now. benevolent serial killer? lol

[T S O]

Bacde it's all semantics. You can't win and I just prefer to play it safe. I apologise, because you've sniped Mafia left right and centre, but I'd prefer to lynch an SK and ignore the AtE.

BeastCharizard and Infinity get your asses on this wagon.

[T S O]

BF - Bulletproof.

[T S O]

yeah but does it really matter for us as Town?

unless it's some sort of Mafia Roleblocker, we can't lose. lynch you - "joat" palmar rblocks "tracker/watcher" rofl - kill means palmar is scum, no kill means rofl is scum. strategetic no kill prolongs game a day. we don't lose anyway.

[T S O]

and it seems strange to me how palmar's role overlaps - 2 of the JOAT actions are also in the game.

[T S O]

..does this refute Palmar's claim? cbf to check.

Feg if Infi was targeted, you should be dead. Does this mean Infi wasn't targeted?

[T S O]

Bacde has said he targeted Infi - either Infi is BP (seems OP) or Bacde's fucking with us.

[T S O]

So, from what I can see, it's Palmar/Bacde scum. Let's get Bacde first.

[T S O]

also lol this fucking exploded with Palmar's claim.

same as feg, night guys.

[T S O]

You said you had a Roleblock. You apparently knew rofl was lying, so you should have PL'd him. Either he's some sort of ignoring-PL type character or you're lying, but we'll jump that bridge if we come to it. Hammer. let's see where this takes us.

Vote Palmar

should be gg.

[T S O]

[T S O]

Guys, would you have any tips on how to improve my play? Always looking for improvements