Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[Edosurist]

VC 1.8

LnGrrrR

(1): Candillan

Candillan

(2): LnGrrrR, Syryana

mkfuba07

(1): RachMarie

Syryana

(2): homertve, imkingdavid

RachMarie

(1): Grimgroove

Not voting

: mkfuba07, Bane

Grimgroove is V/LA until Sunday.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2013-06-07 22:43:00)

.

[LnGrrrR]

Ok, so we still have some time before the deadline, but it will likely approach quicker than we think. I've already laid out my case on Candy, and I would like some pressure on him if possible. Right now there's no wagon whatsoever, and I don't think we want to be a day or two out with no good lynch options.

If you guys don't want to pressure Candy that's fine, but it would be nice to get your case out here so we can examine it and if we agree jump on it.

[Candillan]

Shrug
I mean I might be lynched anyway because I'm most people's #2.

[imkingdavid]

@mod

- Syr voted Candi in #198. Unless I'm missing it, I don't see where he voted me after that.

VC 1.6-1.8 have been changed to reflect this. Thank you.

Regarding Syr - His whole tone seems to be very subdued, rather than accusatory like it had been, since he realized that the scum slip wasn't actually a scum slip. It's also been almost 2.5 days since his last post. After having a couple of days to think about it, I don't know what to think about the situation. He could very well be scum that was caught fabricating a forced, fake case; on the flip side, he could be a townie that actually did make a mistake and tunneled too hard. So I'm having second thoughts. I can't decide whether his tone, combined with how his reaction was worded, makes him scummy or townie in my eyes. I will continue to think about how I feel about it. I'm leaving my vote on him for now, for lack of a better place to put it, but I am planning to look at other people more in depth.

I don't like the lack of input from mkfuba and bane. They both promised input and neither has really delivered. I hate to lynch lurkers because that effectively forces a lynch (potentially a waste) based on no information and gives the scum a free kill at night. However, I don't think it's helpful to go into LyLo or MyLo with someone who hasn't participated in the game. Regardless, I'm not sure that either of these should be our Day 1 lynch unless one of them does something particularly scummy between now and then.

I really can't get a read either way on Rach because her posting style seems to average about 1 line per post and doesn't contain much analysis at all. About 23 hours ago she said:

meanwhile moving along to ISOs and giving my reads.

She then proceeded to quote all of shaboo and mkfuba07's posts and say she's happy with her vote on him. She hasn't added anything since. I'd be happy to hear her thoughts on other players.

Candi posts a lot (not recently, I notice). Other than that, I need to actually take a closer look at his posts, as well as LnG's case on him.

Homer has done nothing to really suspect him so far and has provided his thoughts fairly consistently. I'll take a closer look at him as well to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Same goes for LnGrrrR.

As for Grim, I am still only able to see him as obv town given the logic I posted before (still unable to see it any other way).

-----

Currently by my count Syr and Candi have the most votes, but there are 3 people with 1 vote as well. There's no general consensus on any one player. We really need to start discussing this a bit more so we can figure out a common suspect and have consensus on a lynch candidate by the deadline.

-----

EBWOPreview:

@candi - that could be taken as an appeal to emotion, which is not helpful. Do you have anything of your own to add to the discussion?

[Candillan]

I would add more, but I'm not home yet.
I have a policy of not making lengthy posts on my phone.

[Candillan]

Okay, so I haven't been posting a lot lately because I've been away from computers a lot as of late. Didn't think it was that significant, but might as well let you know since you brought it up.

It could be taken as an AtE, but I'm just stating the facts as is. I'm not sold on a Syryana lynch, as I would prefer a LnGrrrR lynch. As for a case, I'll make one in the morning. I just got home and bleghtired.

My question for you all is what makes LnGrrrR seem town?

w.r.t lynching a lurker, again, I'd prefer to lynch LnGrrrR. I'm fine putting pressure on those slots, though. I hate the idea of lurkers being alive, as they don't add much to the game, and they're keeping a potentially useful slot taken.

Rach's posts are fluffy. I don't think I've seen much else from her.
Nice catch on how Syryana hasn't been here since his 180. I didn't really notice, but that may just be because it's the weekend. Almost no one posts here anyway. I wouldn't expect much from the weekend, lol.

6 days, guys. We can come to a consensus by then, right?

[Syryana]

Nice catch on how Syryana hasn't been here since his 180. I didn't really notice, but that may just be because it's the weekend. Almost no one posts here anyway. I wouldn't expect much from the weekend, lol.

I actually have been around and posting on site. I've just been deliberately avoiding this game; as I said in my earlier post I wanted to leave for a bit and come back with a clear head, as my game before I left was pitiful and frankly unacceptable. I needed a few days to air out and get a fresh perspective.

I'll be rereading the game more in depth later tomorrow, but I can say just from looking at recent posting that RachMarie is getting very suspect. She still hasn't done anything except pressure another lurker slot; no reads, no desire to move the game along, nothing. Heck, she didn't even comment on the large mess that was me vs. Grim. That said:

VOTE: RachMarie

Furthermore, I can now say with nearly 100% certainty that both Grimgroove and Candillan are town. Here's why:

I somehow find Syryana's defense strangely convincing, despite the lack of actual arguments. It just sounds very genuine. Not really sure what to make of that.

The things that made Syryana go Town-->Scum were the Slip Grim pointed out and the sudden 180 on Grim.

It could be taken as an AtE, but I'm just stating the facts as is. I'm not sold on a Syryana lynch, as I would prefer a LnGrrrR lynch.

In the above quotes, you can see both Grim and Candillan are expressing reluctance towards my lynch. There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy" etc. Both Grim and Cand know what a pain in the butt I can be, both from this game and the previous one. Here they both have a golden opportunity to mislynch me and come off smelling like roses, yet Cand outright refuses to lynch me (though he now has a scumread) and Grim expresses reluctance and doubt since he believes my departure posts were genuine. I do not believe either player would pass up this opportunity to lynch me if they were scum, not when both have fairly ironclad reasons to see me strung up. Therefore, both are town.

[Candillan]

MAH BEARD
IT HATH BEEN STROKED

Uhm but in all actuality you can't confirm us as town just because we're against a potentially easy mislynch. In fact, one of the reasons why I lost 1335 was because I saw someone as being town due to them not wanting to jump on a mislynch wagon.

[Syryana]

A couple of things I noticed from homer:

First, you mean "if", not "when".
Second - Well, I do have other suspects as I already said before and there are other players to consider, such as shaboostein / mkfuba07, or rach, that didn't answer to what I asked her on 136 for example. Also, she almost didn't say anything about anyone except david.

I meant "when". It may be an "if" for you, but it's a "when" for me. Who are your "other suspects" and why? I'm assuming you are not including {shaboo/mkfuba, Rach} in the list given the structure of the sentence.

Ok, I think you are referring to the "I was town that game" scumslip, right, Grim?

Well, I can see how they both scum, and one of them (Syryana) is trying to buss(*) the other one (Candillan). It wasn't a great attack to begin with ("I was town that game" as opposed to "I was town that game too") and he did thought at that time he caught you in another scumslip, so he would have the chance to divert his vote to you. I'm not saying they both have to be scum together, but IMO it is a possibility. Is it too far fetched?

--------
(*) - I hope I'm using the term "buss" in the right context. It

is

only my second game on this site.

You are using the term "bus" correctly, homer. It means that one scum partner is attempting to get another lynched in order to gain town cred. However, I ask you this: Assuming I am scum and Candillan is my partner, why would I attempt to bus him on Day 1, particularly when he's not in any particular danger of being lynched?

[Syryana]

MAH BEARD
IT HATH BEEN STROKED

Uhm but in all actuality you can't confirm us as town just because we're against a potentially easy mislynch. In fact, one of the reasons why I lost 1335 was because I saw someone as being town due to them not wanting to jump on a mislynch wagon.

You don't have a beard. Besides, the very fact you would even bring this up proves my point, at least about you.

Also, I'm not saying you're town purely because you're avoiding an easy mislynch, I'm saying you're town because you're avoiding mislynching

me

. After the events of last game I find it highly unlikely you'd pass up an opportunity to get me dead with no repercussions. Hence the townread.

[Candillan]

You're right about me not having a beard.
I just shaved. :<

[imkingdavid]

Besides, the very fact you would even bring this up proves my point, at least about you.

Also, I'm not saying you're town purely because you're avoiding an easy mislynch, I'm saying you're town because you're avoiding mislynching me. After the events of last game I find it highly unlikely you'd pass up an opportunity to get me dead with no repercussions. Hence the townread.

Last game has no bearing on this game. If someone were to want to jump on someone this game based on something (anything) from last game, I would find that scummy. However, just because someone doesn't jump on someone for something in the previous game doesn't make them town; it's just expected that that wouldn't happen. More of a null read IMO.

As for the first half of your quote, personally when I play I always try to point out both sides of a situation, whether I'm scum or not. If I'm scum I'd obviously try to do so in a way in which I still end up on top, but I don't see Candi as any more or less scum for doing this.

At this point, I've only really cleared Grim and for a completely different reason, which I stated before.

[Candillan]

~I see Rach dancing around MS and posting everywhere but here~

Fair point, David. Do you see me as scummy?

[LnGrrrR]

My question for you all is what makes LnGrrrR seem town?

I respectfull ask the other players NOT to answer this question until Candy presents his case on me. If he's scum and trying to come up with a case on me, giving him answers on why you think Im town will a) help give him a town mindset and b) allow him to work an argument around what people see me townie for.

I'm not saying don't answer: Im just requesting you wait until Candy makes his case first.

[Candillan]

Yeah, that's fair.

[RachMarie]

Kinda brain dead will post more tomorrow.

[homertve]

Who are your "other suspects" and why? I'm assuming you are not including {shaboo/mkfuba, Rach} in the list given the structure of the sentence.

I had to think about your question for awhile. I've come to realize that I

had

some suspects before, but now I can't be sure. At the beginning of this game I thought you and Grim are scums, but now I don't think Grim is your scumbody. I didn't like some of Crandaja's statements, but his successor (David) seems town to me right now. At some point, I had my suspicion about candi, but after rereading some of the things I didn't like and his recent posts I don't think that anymore.

Basically, there are only three players I have some concerns about them.

1. You.

2. Ravenpaw's slot. She wasn't involve in the game and when she did post, she did it perfunctory (155, for example). She did asked to be replaced and I guess she doesn't have time for this game and maybe it's the reason her answers where so insufficient, but her replacement didn't say much either so far.

3. Rach. She doesn't say almost anything. She doesn't answer to any of the questions that she's been asked over and over. She doesn't share any of her reads. She isn't scum hunting at all.

I ask you this: Assuming I am scum and Candillan is my partner, why would I attempt to bus him on Day 1, particularly when he's not in any particular danger of being lynched?

Good point, although I guess in this game things can change in a heartbeat, right?

[LnGrrrR]

This game is far too quiet.

@Mod, I believe it's time for some prods?

[Syryana]

Last game has no bearing on this game. If someone were to want to jump on someone this game based on something (anything) from last game, I would find that scummy. However, just because someone doesn't jump on someone for something in the previous game doesn't make them town; it's just expected that that wouldn't happen. More of a null read IMO.

As for the first half of your quote, personally when I play I always try to point out both sides of a situation, whether I'm scum or not. If I'm scum I'd obviously try to do so in a way in which I still end up on top, but I don't see Candi as any more or less scum for doing this.

You misunderstand. I'm not townreading them for actions they took this game; I'm townreading them for opinions they expressed in postgame w.r.t. threats to their scumgame. I find it terribly hard to believe that they'd pass up an easy opportunity to mislynch me in this current situation after admitting that I'm a big obstacle to them winning as scum.

W.r.t. second half of the quote, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think your playstyle really applies to Candillan. AFAICT he doesn't even have any completed scumgames and I don't think a response like that would have occurred to him so readily as scum. Perhaps I'm underestimating him, but I still think I'm right.

Homer, thanks for posting your reads. I wanted to make sure you actually had reads and weren't just blowing smoke out of your ass

RachMarie needs death badly. She's been avoiding the hell out of this thread.

[imkingdavid]

Fair point, David. Do you see me as scummy?

After looking through your posts in isolation, I notice that you post a lot but don't have a lot of content. The majority of your posts are just answering questions without giving analysis of your own. You have a long conversation with Grim about whether or not meta can be used as for a scum read. You vote shaboo because he's been lurking and then 19 posts later you unvote him but don't vote anyone else despite having 3 people on your reads list next to "Scum".

As I and others have pointed out, you repeatedly say "I am town" as if you're trying to subliminally convince us to not look your way by having a pro-town sentiment associated with your name constantly. This is one of the main things I don't like about your posts. Anyone you ask here is going to say they're town, so it's really expected; there's no need to say it even once outside of a claim scenario, much less as often as you did.

In #262 you comment on the increased activity and say "walls incoming" but your following posts don't really have any more content than your previous ones. Not that I'm saying we need a bunch of walls, but when you promise analysis and end up just posting your scum reads list again with a couple of changes, that's not really analysis.

In #313 you comment (directed at Syr):

Pedit: What is making you reconsider your read on me? I don't think any of my actions warrant an epiphany-like reread of my slot.

This is right after Syr decides to take a step back from the game and promises to do a re-read, but not specifically of Candi. Maybe nothing, but you just seem like you'd prefer Syr didn't go back over your posts, as if you were hiding something.

You vote LnG for tunneling and for "not stepping on anyone's toes" but beyond that I see nothing to comment on.

In all, it appears to me like you're trying to hide a lack of scum hunting behind a large quantity of posts and hope that no one actually goes over them to see that you haven't really said much beyond answering questions/defending your actions, asking a few "what are your thoughts?" questions, and sometimes throwing out your reads list.

-----

As I mentioned in #353, I have been reconsidering Syr based on his recent behavior. I feel it is about time I move my vote, though I definitely still suspect Syr.
UNVOTE: Syr
VOTE: Candi

I believe LnG is waiting on Candi to present a case or at least a read on him. I will re-evaluate my vote after he does this to see if I feel he is actually scum hunting.

[imkingdavid]

You misunderstand. I'm not townreading them for actions they took this game; I'm townreading them for opinions they expressed in postgame w.r.t. threats to their scumgame. I find it terribly hard to believe that they'd pass up an easy opportunity to mislynch me in this current situation after admitting that I'm a big obstacle to them winning as scum.

W.r.t. second half of the quote, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think your playstyle really applies to Candillan. AFAICT he doesn't even have any completed scumgames and I don't think a response like that would have occurred to him so readily as scum. Perhaps I'm underestimating him, but I still think I'm right.

I suppose I understand what you're saying, but I still don't think that alone clears either of them, much less both of them. Keep in mind that you were never really in a position of an "easy mislynch".

At the time of #315, when Grim says he finds your argument "strangely convincing", he is still voting you. He doesn't remove his vote from you until #334, and not because he doesn't find you scummy but because he doesn't want a potential lynch situation while he's away if he can help it.

At worst,

with

Grim voting you, you were at L-2. If Candi wanted to hop on your wagon and get an "easy mislynch" he'd need to convince another person, and would need to count on the other three people not finding his eagerness suspicious and unvoting.

So I don't see them as necessarily passing up on an easy mislynch so much as 1) not having the opportunity, and 2) deciding not to tunnel you.

[imkingdavid]

In other words, I see it as a null tell at best.

[Grimgroove]

imkingdavid: What is your stance on RachMarie?

[Grimgroove]

Ok, I see you addressed it in 353, yet let me put it more concretely: Would you be inclined to vote for her during this dayphase?

[Grimgroove]

Have to read through what has happened during the weekend, but might join the wagon on Candillan, it's true he's on or near the top of a lot of people's scumlists.