Open 529 -- Picking Simplicity -- Game Over

[Svenskt Stål]

Aaaand aptil is posting elsewhere.

Can we hardcharge?

[Nobody Special]

Albert B. Rampage replaces elleheathen effective immediately.

[Nobody Special]

JacobSavage and aptil have been prodded.

[Maenara]

*ALERT* Incoming Wall

Okay, first off,
UNVOTE: Loranthaceae

They're town.

Now, as a preamble to this post, I'll say this: I start, in this post, by responding to people's posts, primarily those directed at me, supplemented by those I believe to have valuable things to add, or which I find need attention they have not received, in chronological order. I will thereafter, in a new post, attempt to summarize my views of various people, and evaluate whether or not I think they're scum. Following this, I will suggest a plan of action based on this, as well as on other people's reads, and which wagons are likely to get sufficient traction in the time we have left. However, in spite of the fact that I will finish up with a conclusion, I'd like people to look at the wall, too, or at least CTRL-F for their own name, that they may answer questions that I pose.

Without further ado:

Maen: what's the case on Lora?

Skelda: I would like to look at BP, but he was an early town read of mine due to his reactions to me. can you point out where he is ignoring things and maybe one or two of these "blind" votes?

The case on Lora, such as it was, was an argument based on playing style. His initial posts consisted of what seemed to me to be a combination of attempted signalling and insincere data gathering aimed more towards finding out who to please and how, than at determining people's alignments. His defense, when I confronted him, did little to convince me otherwise, and so he seemed like an ideal candidate for a lynch: With sufficient pressure, he'd either continue to flunder - as scum - and net town one less person to worry about, or he'd have to actually get a grip and start providing some content.

That aside, I'm worried about the vagueness of your statements with regards to BoroPhil. Vagueness in general is bad, and I cannot see how BP in particular has done anything to merit being read as town.

@BP - What pointless questions? You say that when you call somepony "scum from the start" it means they weren't scum when you said that, but you don't unvote him for about four pages after you make that comment.

Also yes I still don't think your comment on Wake is joking. Unless around the time that players were getting annoyed with Wake you suddenly decided to make your first joke of the game... not a joke.

Lora wagon is bad in large part because Manera is on it and they are scum for the really awkward way they are treating Wake with a very "im not sure how this is going to go" push on the policy lynch that just reeks of scum who is afraid they are going to take flack for it. Whenever his attacks get countered he just keeps ending up there as well and dismisses the entire push on him from Lora as "OMGUS" without actually responding to it.

The only semi-decent point on Lora is the odd push on Titus for "faking towntells" but when you consider HGH was probably town its a wagon that wont happen. Ive seen enough games to know that even when vocal players push a wagon it actually has to have merit or another vocal (me) will just tear it down. There is no merit here.

With regards to the Wake deal, I'm still in favour of lynching him. I just see no point in wasting everybody's time screaming in their faces instead of scumhunting. Had everybody followed my suggestion and made their stance on a policy lynch clear in their following post, in the proposed format, we'd already know whether or not we were lynching him, and it'd be a done deal. As that wasn't happening, however, why would I stick around instead of applying myself to something more useful?

Her interactions with Wake. Either it is ridiculous whiteknighting or RBD is town. I can't see scum being that melodramatic in defending others. Plus, if Wake flipped mafia scum, the target on RBD's back would be huge.

Funny how you mention that other game. In context, you had made a half-serious, half-not serious joke. I still don't quite understand it. I would have moved on if I was town but I figured I had a good chance at getting you lynched with it. Too bad Jennifer Nked me. It seems like a subtle meta manipulation, when I never asked for it. Scummy.

I don't see the link between Wake and RBD. Mind you, I'm pretty sure RBD

is

town, and Wake is a VI no matter what his alignment, but your logic is flawed.

Last few BP posts have me wondering a bit, it makes it seem like he did something without even realizing it so im not as sure on him being scum. He just reacted badly to me saying he wants a policy lynch without knowing what one is (which is odd to start).

Yeah looking at replacements I probably wouldn't even touch the Loren wagon to have a lynch happen, its at best null-scum players. Same reason im a little wary of SS wagon although he is kinda scummy.

@Titus - Wake lynch is bad. Most of the time a "slip" is overblown. When there is basically a zero change (which if I listed all players Wake would be dead last) for him being mafia, its just a bad lynch given that if the slip is wrong we are lynching town.

Vote Manera

BP can backburner for a while.

Better wagon go.

BP not knowing what a policy lynch is is BS. He's played this game for long enough to know; he has to. "Did something without realizing it" is possibly the worst excuse for doing something scummy I've ever heard.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wake88

Him or BoroPhil. I've narrowed it down to those two.

Narrowed it down in what fashion? I don't disagree with either lynch, per se, but it's for radically different reasons, and you seem to be equating them.

[BigAssWall]

Okay, so, all of this is so incredibly fake. I mean, I can't even described how forced all of this seems. You're not actually going in depth, you're just making sure that you have a wee bit to say about everyone. That's not pro-town, that's so scummy it hurts. I mean, are you even putting in effort? Have

read

any posts? I'm not saying that any of what you wrote is false, as such, as much as it's just incredibly useless. There's no content, here. It's just noise.

Also, regarding mae, I think her lack of giving a fuck, in terms of others feelings and her own perception, puts her donw on most lists. Disregard that and try to look at what she tries to do.

Like how she insisted that we cant use any reads (which were scum) on who she replaced attacking whoever mentioned that, then pushed for a policy lynch, when that wasn't working backed way off and she got attacked backed off, then tried again in a very subtle manner saying "so who would want one" such that she gets far less heat for trying to push it?

Those things which she is trying to do and make her scum?

Well when you say it like that...

Althou I cant belive she told you not to use reads, and that it would be scummy.

I can see motive for the policy lynch...

Alot of what you typed I cant understand. But clearly we are getting two seperate signals from what she does, could it be that she is bossy? I mean everything she does you put in a bad light, or that the feeling I get, and I cnt see how anyone can come to that conclusion objectively.

Its that's she is trying to push the policy lynch in a way that town would not push it. She is afraid of the perception of herself or she would have pushed the policy lynch instead of trying to see what type of suspicion she could drum up for it.

Plus TNE who she replaced WAS scummy. All she has done is come in and tried to push a policy lynch ignoring my reason as to why Wake is town. You don't policy lynch town. I have stated why Wake is town, there has been no case counter, just continued pushing of policy im going to call that scummy.

Blue.

Green.
To me she come of as constructive. She didnt get enough traction on a wake lynch, abandoned it and moved to something else. In fact she is telling us not who to vote, but how. She has repeatedly asked us to not stray vote but instead get major wagons going. There is some frustration in there which I feel is genuine aswell.

Red.
While one should not completly disregard previous player who played the same slot I do feel that ifyou take it into too high account it limits the success of the read. Its like saying, X is kinda town the last 1000 posts but X was

really

scummy the first 100 posts. You are constantly given more information and the more you get the less you can focus on a bit of the past.

I have never played with Mae but I think that if she is town then she will be a huge source of contribution and that town will lose alot of value in an early mae lynch,

Chance of you joining the jmo wagon?

[If the above is not 100% faithfully replicated, I apologize; editing this post was hell on wheels]

Like I said earlier, I pushed the policy lynch the way I did

because

I was risk-averse. I won't deny that. But the risk in this case is the risk of a no-lynch, which is, I'll have to say, a fairly worrying proposition. I made it plenty clear that I think we should lynch Wake, and I explicitly asked for everyone to corporate in determining whether or not it ought to happen. Assuming that everyone actually read the post, which I find to be a fair assumption, I'd be hard pressed to see how they could've missed the bloody lime green. And yet virtually nobody opted in to the scheme. With that little interest amongst town, trying to sway anyone to lynch the guy was futile: Working hard to convince your audience is one thing, but it's a fair bit harder when the audience ain't listening in the first place.

And gee, I'm not too happy with people attacking me for what my predecessors did, no freaking kidding. How exactly am I supposed to respond to that? "Well, I imagine he behaved like scum 'cause he was a bit of a freakin' tosser, honestly"? I doubt that'll go over well (And it'd be ableist to boot, but you get the point).

and yeah this might all come across as a bit OMGUSy so I'm happy for people to tell me where I'm going wrong. but it just smells off to me.

btw what was interesting from my big post was 2 people who either don't have 2 votes atm or aren't voting for one of those, so are flying under the radar somewhat: aptil and Brian.

Trashpost trashpost trashpost.

I would like a lynch of Manera, elle or BS.

I would vote the other null/slight scum reads to stop lynches of town reads (like Loren/Wake) though. Not voting ER either, would aptil falls into the "kinda okay" votes but is town if BS/Manera are scum so don't really love that lynch.

Can we seriously kill elle who has just completely stopped posting as of late? She is scum to start then comes the massive lurk move when stuff starts happening.

What exactly

is

your problem with Brian Skies? I haven't been able to find a summary. To me, he seems like just another inactive.

VOTE: BoroPhil

I really don't like your accusations of RBD here. Nothing of her play reeks of desperation at all.

Shouldn't you have more to say about this guy? This seems like such a laughably small part of his posting to focus on.

and like I said, if policy was the reason then why me? there was plenty of people advocating it. Skelda still is ffs

Trashpost.

I don't see anything Skelda has done as misrepping. When he first game in, we had an interesting dialogue where I had to be sure Skelda wasn't just saying what was easy. He passed. Skelda's town. There's just no way to mirror a process as warped as my own.

BoroPhil, just because my vote is on you doesn't make it odd. From my perspective, you have been pushing my town reads for reasons that make no sense. So I voted to apply pressure and I wasn't getting my Wake lynch (despite my firm belief it would be for the best).

Skelda, I understand that. For some reason, people like to make up stuff about me when I am town (doesn't happen much as scum though). Easy on the buddying though. :S

Please cease to engage in pleasant dialogue with scum. A good offense is the best offense.

his avoidance. I've asked pretty simple things of him. I can't remember where or when he posted any of the things he claims to have posted. if someone said to me: hey dj, where was your case on so and so? I would say "post 76" or whatever. not be like "i'm not answering and you're bothering me." it could be a playstyle difference, but couple it with Tcold's "easyrider" wagoning and it says scum to me. all sven has to do is engage, but he refuses. I see no town motivation not to engage.

Dude, Stål is actually generating content. I'm well aware that nobody is guaranteed town, but he's actually taking stances and provoking people. That's, like, the epitome of towniness given the current situation. Pick another target.

Sven, what do you think of BoroPhil? Don?

If you were king of the town, who would you lynch? Why? Where have you pointed out their scumminess previously.

No prob with boro

Don has brought nothing of value since I subbed in and his latest contributions have all been sobfests couse he got told no. I think his lack of participation speaks badly for him, so its lack of content and not the content itself mostly.

Right now if I was big boss i would create thee strong wagons, and i would aim them at people i know little or nothing about. Aptil, skelda and don.

If i had to nuke someone i would nuke aptil based on a crossedfinger, 6 pack gut read.

You have no problem with BoroPhil?

You have

no

problem with BoroPhil? Excuse me, look, you've been willing to go for Lora when I'm doing it, and Boro is doing the same, only a million times worse. Don, yeah, alright, not generating the best content, but like I said to him about you, it's still content, and that's what matters right now. Gives us something to work with tomorrow, when we try to catch up after this positively abysmal day. BoroPhil has done no such thing, and yet you're fine with him.

Look. Re-read his iso. Please.

Sven, what do you think of BoroPhil? Don?

If you were king of the town, who would you lynch? Why? Where have you pointed out their scumminess previously.

sven. in the post two posts ago. before that I mentioned my thoughts on the VCA in post 344. see how easy that was?

oh and look. ad hom attacks from sven.

skelda: what behavior? since when is asking "hey, what are your reads and/or please point them out to me any type of "behavior"?

read on BP: I would have to go back and reread a bit. seemed town to me from our initial interactions. if someone wants to direct me to the case on him I will gladly read it.

Dude, how can he possibly seem town? What has he done that is town-worthy? He does the exact same thing Lora did earlier, only he hasn't actually improved since!

Sven, the reason for aptil is why it looks like Don has a point. Even then, your biggest King of the World target is a lurker. Your posts seem to have the goal of not antagonizing. The one person you should want to lynch is a scum read someone you'd want to have information on. For instance, mine would be Wake because I think he's the SK if I'm in a self-centric mood. If I was feeling more community minded, I'd probably do BoroPhil or Loran. Yours seem to be self-centered with no real evidence to back them up.

Why is Aptil a worse lurker than other lurkers?

I know how the game works, and i find the active posters more or less towny, that makes me want to get inactive players into the discussion to create a more complete picture.

No I am refusing stating things that I have allready stated, especially to someone who contributes as little as you.

if you have a question for me, just ask. currently I am contributing what is shaping up to be a pretty damn good case on your slot. i'm not even asking you to restate things. you can just give me post numbers to read if you want. I am pressuring you to explain yourself. instead of standing up for what you claim to think, you are folding under that pressure. I guess you just really want my vote.

Lol.

The reason you have to ask about stuff is because you are disconnected from the thread, you leave no constructive thoughts instead you ask useless questions.

Yes your pressure is fierce bro.

Listen, you've misunderstood something.

Severely.

Activity isn't town. Yes, yes, it signifies town, but it's not by its own merit that it does so. Content-generation is what makes you pro-town, and activity is usually a good indicator thereof. Usually is the key word, though, and in cases where people are outputting solely noise, thus keeping their activity high but their content low, they're not just being as bad as inactives: They're actively

trying

to give themselves a false appearance of towniness, and moreover, they're sabotaging town's ability to get reads by cluttering up the thread. That's definitely not pro-town.

So, I started catching up like 9 hours ago. Too many players to analyze. I need to visit this thread more often.

It's a giant Wall-Post and some players might hate it, but I did warn you:

Also, I'm in a bunch of games right now so I will post infrequently and in walls. Also, Day 1 isn't my thing, but it might be this game. Who knows?

Spoiler:

I'm confident the scum is HGH and that Aptil was a counterwagon. HGH is ignoring questions inside the thread. The wagon on A appears out of nowhere and takes off while HGH's stagnates.

Anti-hero started the wagon. Did you think he was scum at this point? Did you think anyone else on the wagon was scum, and who?

I'm fine with a Skullduggery wagon here. Skull seems to be hostile and trying to manipulate the conversation to his whims rather than reality. Not sure if he's scum or town but I'd like to know relatively quickly.

Really? I can see how you thought this on the first read-through. But what do you think of the conversation now? I'm leaning towards Elle manipulating the conversation. Skull is just being abrasive. Not hostile though.

I also do not like her case on Elle, and she seems to be twisting things around to suit her.

Same question to Titus from above. What do you think of the conversation now?

However, I do love his 172 since I thought precisely the same thing when I saw the Aptil wagon. Yup, town thoughts! His Skull vote is fine, too, but I still like HGH better.

Same question to Titus from above.

Anti-hero started the wagon. Did you think he was scum at this point?

(Answered in Post 253) Did you think anyone else on the wagon was scum, and who?

I want to see your antihero read to verify you aren't sheeping popular opinion, but the mirroring in thought processes really siggests town.

This was a good catch against Skelda's entrance reads. During my re-read, I felt Skelda could have been a parrot. +Townpoints.

The stupid argument between elle and skull is making me think one of them is scum. But atm it's just a gut feeling.

Looks town v town to me.

I'm leaning this way as well. I didn't like Skull's initial approach to the anti-town thing in the beginning of the game, but I'm liking his defense against Elle. I like Elle's argument thus far for the most part, but there are some word choices and arguments that feel out of place. These include the "you don't seem to like questions" and "definite townreads" arguments. She's generating discussion and pushing Skull. I'm leaning more town on Skull up to this point.

Willing to bet at least one out of tcold and aeronaut are scum. Anyone follow?

Still liking this point. I'm leaning towards Aeronaut being scum between the two. Possibly both.

@Skelda, I have to disagree with the no motivation to cut the day short. If the town is aligned and agrees upon a plan, scum can manipulate to cause disagreement. Also regarding Anti-Hero, if you tried to twist your read of him, that's VERY hard to do. If you had just agreed with popular opinion (which you did) you would have at least commented with some hostility that I was suspecting you might sheep your reads. Objecting about being ignored by someone other than your scum read is a town indicator to me which both Wake and Anti-Hero displayed so I'm putting them as town tentatively.

I'm not comprehending this. Please clarify what you were thinking at the time.

Back.

I didn't do a good job of reading through all 10 pages (the first 3 were all a crap load of RVS and somewhere in there was a typo and arguments about it; was it jmo or someone who people tried to beat up for it?), so I didn't pick up anything I liked. I did ISO the lead wagon of Skulldudgerry and I don't know other people's reasonings for being on it, but for me:

What's your gambit going with "if you think I'm scum, vote me?" Who, honestly, as any town, invites that upon themselves? To me it's just an excuse to try to buy town credit.

Vote: Skullduggery

UNVOTE/VOTE:Skullduggery

I don't like either of these two votes. At least one of you is scum.

I also don't think Skull is scum. The interaction with Elle makes me think town v town and the way the wagon grew.. I think it's likely we have a town-skull than a scum-skull.

Which one do you think is scummier? Why?

Boro is also an awesome scum pick here.

Why?

sorry. been busy. I don't think skull is town. she disappeared as the wagon grew. maybe trying to shed the pressure? I don't know. i'll have to go back and read a bit more. skimming most of these longer posts. here's where i'm at:

townie:

Aeronaut

aptil

BoroPhil

elleheathen
Rainbowdash
Titus

RachMarie

JacobSavage

TCold

null:
Evil Regals

HGH7193

jmo16mla

Skelda

thenewearth

Antihero

uctriton00

scum:
Wake88
Brian Skies
Skullduggery

not necessarily seeing these three as scum together, just each a little scummy in their own right. I don't like brian skies post from atop this page. wake, well, that should be obvious. and skull. well, they are my top suspect at the moment. I see no reason to diffuse the wagon on them. the players running around yelling "skull is town! what is happening!" are making themselves look worse regardless of skull's flip. I see no reason to whine about an existing wagon on day one unless the accused is obvtown, which no one seems to be saying or proving. the best argument made yet is that the argument was town v. town, but that's sketchy and no one has explained why.

I will try and stay active a bit more often, just got a lot going on right now. those of you who know me know I am rarely prodded.

This reads list from Don_Johnson still stands out to me. I've bolded the ones I feel are off. I feel like some of the reads in the town list conflict with some of the reads in the null list. Some of them are similar to me and I don't understand how some got town reads over others.

Not saying he's scum for it, as he does explain his thoughts later on. But I'm going to point it out now for later reference.

But I could see why you wouldn't want to see a Skull flip, regardless of alignment considering the assocative tell:

This is exactly why I find your town read of them to be fabricated, not only because I can't see at all what is town about the two things that you quote but because it looks like a scum throwing out bogus town reads just to look town.

Has Ranawey flipped yet? Do you know his alignment already?

What does this have to do with Ranawey flipping? Are you saying that Ranawey's flip will prove that it

is

fabricated? Just because I think you've made a fabricated town read on Ranawey as scum, doesn't mean that I necessarily think that Ranawey is scum because of it.

The defense and misrep by Ranawey in 185 strikes me as a subtle attempt to discredit what I was actually saying about a read being definite. So this whole attempt here is festering that. And because I at least want to say this before we even get close to night falling. Whether it is today, tomorrow or whenever - when Skull flips scum, look into this, imo.

Hmmm? Maybe. I'll just keep this here for later reference.

first thing which stands out to me is that brianskies is on both early HGH, then aptil, hasn't voted skull, but seems to be fencesitting the wagon. i.e. refusing to take a stance on skull's alignment, but calling the wagon "scummy" irrelevant of the alignment of the target. this may change, but its the first thing which stands out.

Tcold is on all three.

that's all that stands out in a cursory glance. this does not include any votes in context either. might be worth looking into it further.

Does this make TCold scum or town?

Answered with a vote and pushed lynch on Page 19.

/I talk about jmo's scummy behavior
/no one cares

Not 100% (because there are no absolutes), but pretty close. There's way some major scumlord candidates floating around (jmo and don, just to name a couple) that I would rather vote for than Skull.

Okay, I admit I was ignoring you, even on this re-read. I'm not going to iso Jmo right now (especially since it would require ANOTHER re-read), but I've been reading his actions as town. Is he scum? Possible, but I'm leaning town on him. I also think there are better lynches to be had up to this point in the thread. You have beef with Don_Johnson - care to explain?

Alright, I'm here. And I am not liking Don's recent posting. Firstly, his reads list in 299 is seriously a bunch of random names, and his defense of it in 301 isn't much better. That does nothing for the game, and his logic is seriously horrible. He's like, "this one is obvious, this one has a wagon already, this one has a post that annoys that I refuse to specify or tell what annoys me about it". It is ridiculous! And, when he says, "I only lynch out of my null pile if neccesary." shouldn't the nulls be the people leaning neither way who you are on the fence about? Not the players you just personally haven't played with before? Also his, "I'm not going to waste time or energy Day 1" seems like excusing lack of anything, which is just stupidity.

And don't even get me started on 319, that is illogical! What kind of person stops posting on the whole site for one game? I'm starting to think Skull is town because of how quickly the wagon sprung up and Don's horrible logic against her.

So, I'm going to VOTE: don_johnson. My favorite wagon of the game, hands down!

Good argument. Pretty much what I was thinking regarding the reads list. +Townpoints.

It's still barely even a wagon. Two votes. How many have joined the wagon since? One. Hm. Sounds like it stalled out. Possibly because he's scum.

More pushing on HGH, and I'm liking the logic. There's a possible 3 person scumteam here, but calling out scumteams on Day 1 without a flip is ambitious and bad, especially for me. Also, I'm reading two of them as town up to this point, so I'm not giving it any weight right now.

@elle - Yes or no, there is nothing apart from the fact that Skull said "This is town" that you think he is scum for.

Also you entire missed the fact that you originally say "the SK comment came from town or SK" intentionally eliminating mafia. Then when I come in and attack you suddenly you start talking about interactions and how I should not be paid attention to because if he is scum you think I might be.

Why are you implying that her reads can't change? You're chainsawing Skull up to this point and it does make you suspicious by association. Especially since Skull gave your predecessor a townread for two posts that I don't think deserves a townread at all.

I suspectTitus, Elle, and Skelda.

Interesting. Reasons?

brianskies: I can agree to move on. your posting style is difficult for me to decipher. every time you post I feel like you are contradicting something you said earlier, but then when I go back to look, you just aren't. if you're scum, you're doing a great job.

Or I'm town and there's no reason for me to contradict myself to being with.

*Seems to be coasting with an easy vote on Aptil. (140)
*Unvotes Aptil. (192)

*Aeronaut scolds Skullduggery. He did consider putting Skull at L-1. (214)

*Points out that Skull doesn't like questions much. Votes her. (219)

*Makes an odd post that doesn't make much sense. (241)
*Mentions how Jmo voted for HGH in response to my claim to hammer Skull. (273)
*Potential misunderstanding/slip by Aeronaut regarding Jmo and I on reactions. (277)

*Says in response to Uct that he didn't like putting Skull at L-1 because of how quickly her wagon formed. (361)

Serious contradiction here on Aero's part.

@Wake, that's a damn good wall. Where is the vote?

Where's yours?

It seems you don't want to go into detail. When I ask for people's reads of me, I'm gauging their responses. Providing very little context, instead of going into detail, well, sends mixed signals.

You too, Skelda, Antihero and Loranthaceae.

Why?

I think you demanding people to read is either town or cocky scum. But you don't seem cocky. Other than that, I find you somewhat difficult to read. I don't know what it i, but I noticed it when I was making my introductory read list.

Also, I don't like your unexplained suspicion of me, but I don't like being suspected in general. I swear if I could be an Innocent Child every game I would...

Why not just answer the question?

Titus - agreed with him at 191 (as above), but then his vote states that we need more content from DJ. bit bizarre this as DJ has been pretty prominent (and posted reads for everyone)

It's not bizarre. Don_Johnson posted reads and people had issues with his reasoning. Some people still think he's scummy. It's already been said before, but posting is not the same as content.

WTF? Where have I been all game? I'm barely halfway through and I'm still missing.

Players who deliberately ignore my direct posts are automatic lynchbait. Throughout the game I'll be gunning for those on the Lynch List. If that's the way it is, then that is the way it will be. Meaning, don't fucking ignore me. I encourage everybody to go after those on my list for being anti-Town.

Lynch List:

Aptil
Borophil
Jacob
Don
Skelda
Aeronaut

Respond to me truthfully and thoroughly or I'll lead your lynch!!!

Please read through the thread, Maenara.

Who died and made you king? If anti-hero used the same logic, we'd be lynching most of the players list.

You do acknowledge that not contributing by means of engaging in theory discussion is anti-Town behavior, Wake88? You DO want people to give reads and not activeLurk, right?

Cases. Please.

Oooh. I was kind of liking your predecessor, but this post screams town to me. Please be town so I can win a game on this site.

Seven, point out my supposed anti-Town behavior, please.

Too many gambits, not enough discussion on other game events. Plus, you tend to push lurkers and people who ignore you. It seems too easy.

Can't tell if Aptil is bad town or...

The whole Wake, Boro, Aptil, Maenara escapade makes me laugh, noting this for future reference

Now it seems to me you are really asking how i could not have free time last week. i think that is personal question and i had a good reason for doing that i am not going to answer that at all.

Okay, so when are you going to generate content for us?

Since Maenara has apparently gotten off on the wrong path, I'm hoping everyone remembers her initial vote on me. She has the guts to try to twist my words against me as Scum. If she were wise, she'd go with the flow and actually answer questions. I'm now 51% sure she's Scum.

Really? Where? I'm reading the slot as town right now.

What does everyone make of Maenara's vote and my Scumhunting?

Maenara's vote is most likely caused by irritation. Your scumhunting is alright, and I don't mind looking at all the reactions you're netting.

Way to ask a loaded question.

What do I think, I think your full of shit personally.

I think maera's vote is justified and her reasonings are pretty soild.

Hell, I can't believe I didn't do this already.

VOTE: Wake88

How the hell do I not read this as opportunistic? You even push a fake policy lynch later. Soooooooo scummy.

RainbowPony gets townier and townier

The fact you claimed early to help town doesn't help town. It hurts town in a way actually because it lessens the playing field for scum to find PRs.

For those of you who care, the current chances of scum finding a PR increases from 2/15 (13.33%) to 2/14 (14.29%) by Day 1's end. The chances of scum finding a PR increases with increasing days, but early on, the difference is pretty negligible.

Lora: Questions questions polite interrogation setup speculation scum

VOTE: Loranthaceae

You redeem the towniness you lost during that policy lynch business.

Ugh! My townreads are pseudo-lynching one of my townreads. You will not have my support on this pseudo-wagon of yours.

I find wake a distraction, unreadable and just generally useless.

Wake you are spamming, you need to understand this:
Too little content allows scum to dominate.
More content allows town to scum-hunt better
Too much content overwhelms town

Its a U shaped curve.

Your falling into the latter catagory. See NY 161 for an example of this
So stop it.

And where does your content fall into this U-shaped curve of yours?

Side note BS just crashed and burned out of my town read column in a single post.

Yeah, it was pretty bad. But +more townpoints for RainbowPony. Regarding the Aptil comment, the issue I had wasn't so much the vote, but that the person wasn't going to be able to defend himself based on what the previous person did. It sounded a lot better at the time. I'm not going to defend the rest of it though, because it was what I was thinking at the time.

In other news Skull and Don are still both town, and Lora still needs to die. They've been way too cautiously probing the situation, trying to avoid attention intentionally.

The Don_Johnson case keeps popping up and I keep forgetting what it is so it's not coming together in my head. I'll need to re-read later to figure it out. I do agree with the Skull and Lora reads though.

JS is scummy as shit up to this point. Why is he not up for a lynch?

Lora is a bit over-defensive and it doesn't look town to me.

Also lost in the post : Why did people not pursue this further ? (this means the questionable decisions of TNE at the start).

I read it as town. TNE was giving his analysis on someone else's opinions regarding a wagon. I don't have a problem with his vote.

I don't like Brian's lack of lack of analysis. He usually posts a lot more content. His recent posting lacks this.

I didn't take you for a meta person. Anyhow, I'm linking (again) my only completed game thus far: Mismatched Mafia.
I had a heavy game-load and my play-style has been somewhat adjusted. It's kind of reverting back though.

Starting to see what Anti-hero is saying about Jmo only talking about surface-level stuff.

^ What spot, the early-game asskissing spot? Deja vu. I told you then and I'll say it again. Townies have scum reads not townreads. SCUMREADS!

There are players who townhunt and find scum through PoE as well. I kind of use this strategy.

What the hell? Wake practically admits he is the sk and everyone ignores this? No reasoning why I am wrong or right? Major scum points for everyone above me.

There's no guarantee he's the SK, and if he is, he's dumb. There's no reason to keep him to Lylo without a clear and Mafia should be targeting him if they think he's the SK. The gambit makes me think he's more likely to be town than scum, and he can be dealt with later.

sven: mae+skull+me+you+rainbowdash sounds like a solid townblock to me. now, a big part of the awesomeness of a townblock comes from the fact that they vote scum together. I say we vote for BP or jmo (for reasons that RBD and I have already stated). I would also roll with a jacob wagon. But what does anyone else think?

I think you have a good townbloc assuming you and Sven are town. I think you all could be town, so I don't have a problem with it currently.

I prefer the JS wagon personally. A BP wagon is alright. I'm going to need a case because I can't remember what he's done up to this point. I'm still conflicted - leaning town on Jmo. Make a case and I might consider it.

Maybe I should replace out and I will if others want me too, but I was excited to play this game. I have no problem playing it when my RL calms down which should hopefully be in a few days

If you want to play this game so bad, then do your best to create content and stay in. I don't see you as a possible Day 1 lynch up to this point, so I think you're fine for now.

Svenst sounds town with that "you can't earn my trust that easily" tidbit.

JS throws down an RVS-style vote onto Svenst. Like, seriously, how is this not lynched yet?

Ignoring Titus at this point.

Except that post is not begging the mafia to kill him. Rather, it suggests alignment with the mafia. Keep me alive mafia and I'll find discrepancies. It seems like he'd lead their mislynches. Why not direct anything at the SK? Either he is the SK or he absolutely wants us to think he is. I'm thinking the former as I can't see any rational player wanting the town to think he is the SK. He was likely trying to communicate that to the mafia. The problem is he wasn't subtle enough.

Mafia, you tempted to kill me tonight? You'd be unwise to write me off as detrimental to Town. If there are anomalies throughout the Days, I'll find them.

Okay, I lied. I couldn't help commenting on this.

Wake is explicitly egging the Mafia on to kill him tonight. He is literally asking them to shoot him or risk being caught by him.

I find Titus to be a little illogical at times, so the misrep is a null-tell for me right now.

Skipped Wake's wall-posts right before my prod on page 29.

No one currently with votes attracts me, but wake, jacob and jmo are in my eyes acceptable. Wake because i dont understand him, jacob seems to be in troll mode and jmo is inactive.

People I would be willing to vote

aptil, utcitron, don_johnson, antihero, jmo

hmm i guess you can add boro and lora aswell.

What happened to

Wake and

JS? Out of this list so far, I'm liking Lora and JS the most. Maybe boro or Aptil.

Do you find it odd that, after I mention and vote for Uctriton, you then post three seperate reads on various players? It seems like a diversion.

Noted. But Uct is in his voting list, so I don't think it's that weird at all.

I would vote Sven or Manera (preferably Manera who is actually up to about my third pick for scum) here in a heartbeat over Loren and Wake.

This is interesting.

Is there a particular reason or is it because they're blatantly buddying?

Also, Wake might as well be temporary-confirmed town at this point, so that part makes sense.

Rach iand Maenara are town. The rest of the clowns on my wagon are scum, imo.

Sven makes the most compelling case of the game on antihero and yet he votes for his scumbuddy only to jump off him at the fist occasion.

How did you get a townread on Rach? The second part is interesting, but it just looks like Sven settling on a wagon he likes. What makes you think Jmo and Sven are scumbuddies?

I would also love an elle or BS lynch at this point. Both are aggressively avoiding this game.

Um, no. Pretty sure Elle asked for replacement. And I haven't been aggressively avoiding this game. I took on a heavy game load and put this one on the back-burner based on deadlines.

And why are you pushing lynches on inactives instead of scumreads? How is this different than your push on BP's policy lynch on Wake?

Apparently Elle and I are scumreads.

BP's wagon analysis is pretty good. I'm kind of sad I'm never mentioned, but seeing as how I haven't voted anyone and have been inactive, it's understandable. The only problem I have at a quick glance is him voting the scumread with the smallest wagon.

Actually when I went to pull the quote it was BS defending her (which is why I think they are both scum in part)

I tend to defend people when I shouldn't. Kind of like you. If you think that's scummy, then it's just whatever.

Plus TNE who she replaced WAS scummy.

Eh? That's not how I feel about TNE. Difference in opinion I guess.

Skelda, why do you say scummy things? I'll sort you later.

Nothing else up to this point has caught my interest.


Other thoughts:
Elle - Post 181 feels wrong. Continues to push the "definitive read" argument against Skull in 217.
Wake - Using too many gambits early on when discussion is already being generated. Comment on the discussion. Stop baiting people to earn slimy towncred. Still liking his analyses and whatnot, so he's still town for me.
Jmo - Ignored him for the most part the first time through.

Looks succint and towny on the re-read.

Starting to see what Anti-hero means about Jmo only touching surface-level stuff. Still like him for town, though.
Uctriton - Seems to pop-up in weird spots for me (as in, I can never remember what I'm thinking of the slot before he comes in). But his reaction to Wake's VT claim and other posts read town for me. His reaction to Wake being an SK does not.
Skull - The more people push this slot and misrep him, the more I think he's town.

Voting List
Aero - The "you don't like questions" argument against Skull in Post 220 feels wrong. Wake has a pretty good argument against this slot in Post 399.
Aptil - I'm a bit wary because I think this slot could just be badtown. But there hasn't been any content generated.
Loran - I've liked the cases brought up against this slot.
JS - This slot is scummy.

I'd consider but I need a case
BP
DJ
Uct
Jmo
Maybeeeeee Anti-hero


Anyhow, of the people from my voting list, Loran has the most votes.

VOTE: Loran

THIS PEOPLE

THIS THIS THIS

That's content. That's bloody content. Tomorrow, the day after, the day after again, we can go back and look at this post. We can look at all the things he said, weigh 'em up against his later actions, weigh 'em up against the flips, and actually USE it. THAT's content, and that's what we bloody well need.

That said, two things. First of all, you need to summarize better. Reading the post is hell, and while I realize the sweet irony of saying this halfway through a wall of my own, user friendliness is the name of the game. If we want town to work, we need to all have stuff that we can actually make each other read. Secondly, I think you're focusing overmuch on the inactives. Like some of the very people you're saying are voteable, inactives have a tendency to get replaced. Even if they don't, we can always lynch them on a day when we need a filler kill, and trust me, in a 20 player game, we will. At the moment, we need info, and voting for outright inactives is just not going to get us that.

Votecount 1.14

BoroPhil - 3 - Rainbowdash, Antihero, Skelda
Loranthaceae - 3 - RachMarie, Maenara, Svenskt Stål
jmo16mla - 2 - Evil Regals, Loranthaceae
Skullduggery - 2 - elleheathen, Aeronaut
Svenskt Stål - 2 - don_johnson, JacobSavage
Wake88 - 2 - Titus, uctriton00
elleheathen - 1 - Skullduggery
JacobSavage - 1 - jmo16mla
Maenara - 1 - aptil
Rainbowdash - 1 - BoroPhil
uctriton00 - 1 - Wake88

Not Voting: Brian Skies

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-11 11:43:19)

V/LA: Evil Regals through Monday October 7; uctriton00 through Monday October 7; don_johnson through Sunday October 6

A few people are making the most of the noise here.

I'd like to hear more from:

Rach, don - your votes are on replaced players. what do you think of their replacements?

Skull, jmo, aptil, wake, Brian (and I think uct now?) - you have votes on people with 0/1 votes. are you planning on moving these somewhere else; if not you must have a great case against those players? let's hear it.

SEE THIS HERE? See it? That's exactly what I've been talking about the whole time! He's trashposting, asking questions, throwing out vague, non-committal statements, and never ever making a stand on anything! This is what we need to get rid of.

VOTE: Uct

Please follow.

Nvm.
VOTE: Loran

I mean uct is just coasting. No concerns about who is voted or any thoughts about the game, says he will post tommorow, good vote

What the hell was that?

My case on JS? He hasn't provided any content. Pretty simple.

He hasn't provided noise either. Chances are, voting for him won't change anything rapidly enough for our needs.

@Stål's UCT thing, yeah, UCT needs to shape up, but he's not our main target ATM.

yes, it is quite ironic that sven's only contribution is being upset because people are "not contributing".

vote sven. you won't be disappointed.

brian: don't ever do that again.

Dude. DUDE. Stop it. You're supporting the diametrical opposites of what we need.

Back and skimmed the pages over the weekend.

My honest impression of this game: this game has a lot of people in it, and there are people calling us "the lurker queue" in some manner. I was on VLA so that's my excuse, not sure what everyone else's excuse is. For me it's personally hard to keep track of all these votes.

Here are my own personal thoughts that I have going on in my head about people I voted in this game:
Wake = terrible gambiting and is not helping anyone with that approach. It basically tells scum to leave him alone (which is terrible in itself because he basically tells the game "well i never die at night because scum don't want to hurt me"), and he buys himself a town card by claiming himself as VT Day 1. Yeah I've done that before when I was a new player back in the day, but I never EVER told anyone to vote for me before. I was willing to let him slide just to see if we could get a better picture of him, but then I think it was either DJ or Titus who said that an SK role can clearly benefit from this strategy. I'm willing to roll that dice that he is an SK, or if not, it calls him on his own damn bluff of "hey guys vote me out!".
Skull = that was my early vote which was spawned from sheeping. The game went by so fast (I didn't even get to read the game before it was at several pages). I went to ISO the lead wagon and it looked good. But my gut says a Day 1 mislynch would be way easy to get in a big game, so we should stop.
DJ = After feeling that Skull was thus town, I sheeped the Skull read on DJ. It looked good (I was vague about it DJ but I can point out sentences in detail about what posts I found suspicious). The vote came off because the SK Wake theory came up and I like it way more.
Titus = My impression of him will depend greatly on it.
Sven = I have ZERO clue what that vote and unvote was for on me. Tell me, Sven.

I've only played with a few other people in this game but haven't picked up on anything yet.

Pretty sure I'm going to get **** on by the "active" bloc in this game but these are honestly my opinions right now.

Too little, too superficial. Add more input on people who are less prominent. Add more depth to the people who are this prominent. Add something that hasn't been said before.

And now Uctriton lies again by saying I'm angry.

When people play dishonestly,

routinely

, they earn my vote.

DUDE SHUT UP

Wake, this discussion will continue when more evidence appears. If it is evidence of you being the sk, we will discuss further then. If you are magically cleared, then I will apologize. I doubt the latter will happen. It is important to catch scum first. I am fine moving to my less certain reads for now because you are not likely to be lynched.

No, you can argue it right now regardless of new evidence, and continue doing so when new info comes up.

There's no need to apologize for Scumhunting, either.

If you feel so damned certain I'm the Serial Killer, then go for it. You've got time. I think you should put your time and effort towards the one you're most certain about,

regardless

of what the majority thinks.

Normally, I'd agree with this. However, with the division in the town, number of players and lack of any major trains forming suggests I don't have the time to do that.

This guy gets it. We're running out of time.

Dashie I have you as a town read but why are you pushing on Elle who is not playing any more instead we are waiting for a replacement for that slot and one more? It is not like you to push on low hanging fruit instead of trying to find out who else is more scummy amongst those who are active and actually playing.


Brian could you not do teeny font please? I had an impossible time trying to read a chunk of your wall post under the spoiler because it was so small. I already have my browser way zoomed in since I am 70% blind, so that is not really a possibility to do again.

So far I have not seen a lot to want me to change my mind off of HGH/Loran

So I have been focusing on getting some town reads to by PoE make the potential scum list smaller to find more scum.

Excuse me? You read this thread closely enough that you've actually

read

Brian's post, and yet you still can't add more than this? Yeah, fair point on Ellie, but really? We need activity so badly, and you're not even trying to pressure anyone. Fix that.

How is uci lying? And Sven is starting to irritate me, his lurker suspicion doesn't feel justified.

Brian, you reminded me about the DM read list thingy? Why didn't that wagon take off again? I'm still suspicious of him and BP.

Loran, I'm sort of unsure about. I'm not convinced, though. Can someone explain why she is so much more scummy than DM and BP? And Titus, I do think if you really feel strongly about Wake, go for it. Changing your vote because of pressure is a scumtell for me.

They were equally scummy. Then Lora shaped up and started providing actual content, without it being solely for the sake of self-defence. That makes them less scummy.

I'm really sorry about the lack of activity guys, I promise that whatever happens, I'll post

something

of relevance tomorrow, once I'm done being out of my bloody mind over everything, and I'll respond to everyone who's said something to me, there are just too many people for me to have been able to do a half-assed job of it.

Objectively speaking, is there a correlation between activity and alignment in your game?

Current games aside, my meta - what little of it exists - is half a year old. I tend to have a problem with activity in general; it doesn't really matter if I'm town or scum. Generally, the less of a clue I have of what to do, or the more work has piled up in front of me, the less I post. So, pretty typical there.

Wow the wagons chilling at even votes makes me think that scum aren't in danger currently or else the votes would look a lot different. I'm still reading or read the skull slot town.

Stal's response the last one looks Crüel to me to Titus. With that in mind without reading what I missed I don't think I would shed a tear if you got rope.

Do you still exist? Why are you here? Should you not be replacing out, or, I don't know, posting?

Please pick one.

Me.

And thats the problem with some players, you vote with feelings, not reason

Again, you are implying those who are voting for you are unreasonable. We ask you for reasoning. You refuse and call us dunces. That's not an effective strategy regardless of alignment.

There is zero resoning to vote me if you are a analytical town player, i am active, i post my thoughts when i have them.

I dont agree with your reasonings and your cases, that does not mean i cant belive that you nelive in them, you are one of my strongest townreads and i agree with about zero of your conclusions

Voting Stål is bad. This is not to say that I agree with him on everything - obviously - but he's a really bad vote right now.

Dashie I have you as a town read but why are you pushing on Elle who is not playing any more instead we are waiting for a replacement for that slot and one more? It is not like you to push on low hanging fruit instead of trying to find out who else is more scummy amongst those who are active and actually playing.

Never realized he was being reaplaced until it was pointed out. Replacing or not they are still by far the scummiest slot in the game though.

jmo and sven both looking like very good counters to Loren right now.

uctri would be nice if we had time as well.

vote jmo

While I get more caught up. Somewhat shameless joining of the wagon town reads like.

Stål is still a bad wagon. JMO is just... I don't know, lazy? I mean, okay, he's pretty far down on my list, but I don't think he sinks below a null. What is wrong with him, specifically?

Gut read said aptil, now i wanna hard charge uctrriton.

Vote uctri

Your move. Change your vote and he is tied for most.

Come on. Look at his posts. What is voting him going to help right now? He's already defeatist. We can't change that in this few days, and he's not scummy enough to merit a lynch for anything other than inactivity.

oh hey!

i'm being called scum for sharing townreads with someone (one of whom is me, and one of whom I said was town before)...

that's just... great

i'm going to go smash my head against a cinder block wall now, i'll catch ya'll later...

Oh, you're also here?

POST.

Gut read said aptil, now i wanna hard charge uctrriton.

Vote uctri

Your move. Change your vote and he is tied for most.

I am one of your two likliest scum, and now we are cooperating?
VOTE: Uctri

Guys? Guys. No.

This is the wrong way to go about things. He won't provide you with info, and he's not sufficiently scummy on his own. Or at least provide a bloody case saying that he is.

Stal, why the change though? It seems as if you're in favor of whichever lurker wagon is best.

Hmm look, an innactive player is someone i cant have much of a solid case on... So it becomes more of a flavor of the month, one post can tip the scale.

Now say that it was an active player, then it would take more because i would have a more solid case and suspicion.


And uctritons post was god awfull.

Yes, yes, it was awful. But you're still looking wrong at the activity deal. It's not the activity itself that matters, it's the content. Consider that, and everything changes.

I want to vote someone from here

Antihero
Skelda
jmo
Jacob
uct
Aero

I'm happy with jmo as it stands but uct is also a good lynch. Ridiculous really that some of the others have had no attention on them, but there you go

Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaashpost.

Actually he had thoughts.

Sven if I go down, can you pleeeeeeeeeeeeease go down next? Anyone? Scum if you're listening, can you seriously take him down hard? Or at least town take him down hard next round?

Seriously you think you're running the game and think you have it all figured out.

And you don't like my vote on Loran? Here's my thought process:

- As pointed out, we are running out of time
- ISOed the largest wagon
- Found something that's scummy
- Latched onto it

As for everyone else voting me (or at least putting me in a lynch pool), my flaw is that I haven't been active in this game because it just went TOO ******* FAST for me and I never got caught up or into it. That's seriously why I've done a crapload of sheeping and tunnelling.

I'm going to take a stand for my "lurker" block, and say that the case Sven puts out of all active people being town is either a naiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive as **** town, or a scum who is scratching himself as he chuckles.

I'm not going to be anti-town and vote myself or advocate people voting me, so here is my lynch pool:

Sven, for being ridiculous and saying "everyone active is town to me, so let's kill off lurkers"
Wake, for his terrible anti-town gambits.
Or my current vote,

Loran

, because it's the most lynchable pool, and my theory is that he "read up" on his predecessor slot because he needed to carefully see how scum laid it out his story so that he doesn't get caught up in any inconsistencies. My guess is that as town, you just go into the game and not care what your previous townie slot said. By going back and reading back what HGH said, he is trying to be careful and calculative.

Okay. This is good. I don't actually agree with all of it - the 'read up on predecessor' thing is flimsy at best - but yes, Sven needs to reconsider the lurker thing. And this is content. That's good. Continue like this.

I would gladly lynch anyone who (stackable):

Ever had a townread on someone who wasn't in danger of getting lynched.
Brought up the speed of a wagon build-up as a valid argument for scumhuning, and whoever reponded to it without calling out for the bullshit it is.
Who failed to provide good reasons for voting someone who has a fairly adequate amount of posts.
Made a list of people who he wants to lynch consisting of easy targets.

I have yet to add up everything but I'm looking at Brian Skies, Titus, jmo, Sven, RD, BP

I suggest everyone proceeds in this manner because listing people, flip flopping, massive-catchup-posting and such are not productive.

This is a good post. I don't agree that people should

only

do this, but they should definitely do this too. It's necessary. You can be town for now.

[Svenskt Stål]

holy shit

[aptil]

I am sorry for not posting here . this is my first time in such a large game and i am still trying to find it hard . All these huge posts do not help .

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.16

Loranthaceae - 4 - RachMarie, Brian Skies, Svenskt Stål, jmo16mla
jmo16mla - 3 - Evil Regals, Loranthaceae, BoroPhil
Svenskt Stål - 3 - don_johnson, JacobSavage, Titus
BoroPhil - 2 - Antihero, Skelda
Skullduggery - 2 - Albert B. Rampage, Aeronaut
uctriton00 - 2 - Wake88, Rainbowdash
Maenara - 1 - aptil
Wake88 - 1 - Skullduggery

Not Voting: uctriton00, Maenara

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-11 11:43:19)

V/LA: ...

[Maenara]

So, what can we say about people, then?

Well, we have a block of contributing-enough-to-count-as-town-for-now: Stål, Rainbowdash, Skull, Don, Titus, and yours truly. Then there are the people who don't say enough, but whose posts have made me sincerely believe they are town: Brian, Lora, Skelda. That's a total of nine players. That's not even enough for a lynch. That's bad. I could comment on each of these players, and I will, in time, but they've been engaged in enough banter that I think it scarcely necessary for now.

Bearing that in mind, there are a couple of other groups:

BoroPhil stands on his own, and I'll just go ahead and vote for him immediately:
VOTE: BoroPhil
He has the third greatest number of posts, and yet he has contributed zero content. Like, at all. He's not gonna be town. If you look at my wall, you'll a choice few places where I've quoted him, and see that he does nothing but throw out superficial statements about who-knows-what, then vanishing back to the dark pit whence he cameth. He doesn't take a stand on anything. He doesn't try to pursue anyone. He's not playing to our wincondition.

Another category of his own is Wake. Wake is an idiot. He needs to die. Don't listen to him.

Then there are the lurkers. They are legion. Jacob, Aptil, Anti, Aero, Evil, Rach. The late Elle, but now she's replaced, fortunately. We can't use them for anything, but voting them is stupid. We won't gain anything from that.

And then there are the semi-lurkers. It is on these that we need to rely, which is sort of ironic, 'cause these are the people who are the most scummy. Still, we need at least two of them to get enough votes for a lynch - one, if we can get Albert in the active group - and that requires an unanimous decision amongst all the actives. The semi-lurkers, of course, are Uct and JMO. Neither has said enough to be active, but I don't think it's quite fair to call them lurkers either. Thus, we need to engage them. And they need to vote. Right now.

Personally, I propose three different solutions. The ideal one would be lynching Boro. He's supremely scummy right now, so he sort of deserves it. Of course, it also seems like half the town block have him as town, which I find a bit odd, so if y'all would be so kind as to explain why in the name of sweet Hastur he isn't scum, I'd appreciate that. The other solution would be to lynch Wake, because honestly, we need him gone. He's disruptive. He's top of the posting chart, and he hasn't done anything pro-town at all. But that one already fizzled. The third solution is to vote for one of the two semi-actives. That, at least, might stir them into action, and if it doesn't, well, they're refusing to act pro-town, and thus deserve the lynch.

As you can see, I've already chosen one of the three for myself, but I'm willing to do either one, and I suggest that everyone do the same.

[Maenara]

holy shit

I did say I would do something constructive today. Besides, my shrinks had given me the wrong time, so I've missed my appointment and won't get a new one 'till November. I have a bit of frustration to work with in the meantime, and it so happens that I'm channeling it here.

Please read it, though. I have a lot of things for you, in particular.

[Maenara]

Also if we vote for one of the semi-lurkers, it should be JMO. How does he even have 56 one-liners?

[Svenskt Stål]

Allright I´ll check boro

But you are understanding me wrong on my "lurker agenda". I AM WILLING TO LYNCH, but most of all I want them active, if there is no activity there is no added content.

See what we got from uct? I take about 100% of the credit.

Rest of what you had for me I forgot. But I really dont see how you can object to my lurker hunt. I am not saying that activity=town read and lurking=scum I am saying that activity is pro town, lurking hurts town. Yes there is good and bad content but i take that instead of nothing.

And yes it so happens that i in this game find no active player standing out. But i will be flexible come lynch.

[Svenskt Stål]

Everyone seems to thinik that who I vote is someone i want dead. That is not true, but the threat needs to be there. I want reactions and contributions to the ongoing discussion.

[Maenara]

Peh, I'm not gonna have much luck convincing you about it here and now. Remind me to discuss content vs. activity with you post-game. Theory-crafting creates too much clutter here.

P-EDIT: Normally, I'd agree with you, but given the time-frame here, we don't have the time for a reaction wagon. We need a lynch, quickly.

(And yes, three days is quickly in a 20-player game)

[Svenskt Stål]

Disguised hook up accepted.

And you are right, we need unity. I´ll check boro.

[Titus]

VOTE: BoroPhil

Not my first choice but Loran looks full of scum, so will vote Boro. Manera deserves a better response than this but my phone is about to die.

[Titus]

I am sorry for not posting here . this is my first time in such a large game and i am still trying to find it hard . All these huge posts do not help .

Large games are hard. Focus on reading all players. Take notes on each. Comment if something's off.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I read my name in pink and caps, and then I realized it was Alert and not Albert.

Now I am sad.

[Svenskt Stål]

I am sorry for not posting here . this is my first time in such a large game and i am still trying to find it hard . All these huge posts do not help .

Ask for replacement.

[Svenskt Stål]

I still dont agree on borophil but I dont have the stregth to make a large wall and i fear time is against me aswell. Making 10 players trust me and vote with me seems futile.


VOTE: borophil

[aptil]

I am sorry for not posting here . this is my first time in such a large game and i am still trying to find it hard . All these huge posts do not help .

Ask for replacement.

you do not learn by replacing out .

[Svenskt Stål]

So, what can we say about people, then?

Well, we have a block of contributing-enough-to-count-as-town-for-now: Stål, Rainbowdash, Skull, Don, Titus, and yours truly. Then there are the people who don't say enough, but whose posts have made me sincerely believe they are town: Brian, Lora, Skelda. That's a total of nine players. That's not even enough for a lynch. That's bad. I could comment on each of these players, and I will, in time, but they've been engaged in enough banter that I think it scarcely necessary for now.

Bearing that in mind, there are a couple of other groups:

BoroPhil stands on his own, and I'll just go ahead and vote for him immediately:
VOTE: BoroPhil
He has the third greatest number of posts, and yet he has contributed zero content. Like, at all. He's not gonna be town. If you look at my wall, you'll a choice few places where I've quoted him, and see that he does nothing but throw out superficial statements about who-knows-what, then vanishing back to the dark pit whence he cameth. He doesn't take a stand on anything. He doesn't try to pursue anyone. He's not playing to our wincondition.

Another category of his own is Wake. Wake is an idiot. He needs to die. Don't listen to him.

Then there are the lurkers. They are legion. Jacob, Aptil, Anti, Aero, Evil, Rach. The late Elle, but now she's replaced, fortunately. We can't use them for anything, but voting them is stupid. We won't gain anything from that.

And then there are the semi-lurkers. It is on these that we need to rely, which is sort of ironic, 'cause these are the people who are the most scummy. Still, we need at least two of them to get enough votes for a lynch - one, if we can get Albert in the active group - and that requires an unanimous decision amongst all the actives. The semi-lurkers, of course, are Uct and JMO. Neither has said enough to be active, but I don't think it's quite fair to call them lurkers either. Thus, we need to engage them. And they need to vote. Right now.

Personally, I propose three different solutions. The ideal one would be lynching Boro. He's supremely scummy right now, so he sort of deserves it. Of course, it also seems like half the town block have him as town, which I find a bit odd, so if y'all would be so kind as to explain why in the name of sweet Hastur he isn't scum, I'd appreciate that. The other solution would be to lynch Wake, because honestly, we need him gone. He's disruptive. He's top of the posting chart, and he hasn't done anything pro-town at all. But that one already fizzled. The third solution is to vote for one of the two semi-actives. That, at least, might stir them into action, and if it doesn't, well, they're refusing to act pro-town, and thus deserve the lynch.

As you can see, I've already chosen one of the three for myself, but I'm willing to do either one, and I suggest that everyone do the same.

Didnt read this the first time, I´d go 2 or just gamble on 3 before doing one, but I will not try to lead such action.

[Svenskt Stål]

I am sorry for not posting here . this is my first time in such a large game and i am still trying to find it hard . All these huge posts do not help .

Ask for replacement.

you do not learn by replacing out .

Then could we have some thoughts please?

[don_johnson]

first of all: reading isn.'t everything in this game.

sven: I think you and I are more alike than I first thought. my issue with phil is much like your town read on ucti. I base a lot of my reads on small snippets of conversations with people that give me impressions one way or the other. I firmly do not believe activity is necessarily a towntell, nor is large amounts of content. large amounts of content can be protown because they can be sifted through later on with more clarity after flips, so it is generally a good idea to let people who choose to blow up the thread with content do just that. but reading it all on day 1 is unnecessary imo. I get in fights with people about this all the time, but bottom line is I generally tell people: you play your way i'll play mine. that said, I was pushing you because I thought your requests were a bit hypocritical, but looking through your iso and listening to your response now I think we may have a personal issue. hopefully we can put that behind us. I prfer not to spar with folks on a personal level.(although if I have a scumspect in the crosshares I have been know to get a bit cheeky.)

aptil is not a good vote for lack of activity. just not.

ALBERT!!!!!!!!!! long time no see. looks like borophil is on his way to the noose. can you quick iso or something and give me your impression of him? I had a town read based on his initial reaction to my saltiness, but haven't been paying much attention of late and several players seem to have a beef with him.

guys, the walls are eye burning. I can truly only skim for the sake of not burying myself here when I have tons of other shit to do. and no, I don't replace out. I do just fine with my coasting style, so bugger off.

"He has the third greatest number of posts, and yet he has contributed zero content."

^^ this is the main push of the phil wagon? I will look into this soon. if anyone else has points against phil please post them short and sweet. at this time I loosely oppose the wagon.

unvote

[don_johnson]

also, jmo seems to be the most likely counterwagon here, so we should probably get some thoughts on and from that slot. will iso them as well.

[jmo16mla]

I still dont agree on borophil but I dont have the stregth to make a large wall and i fear time is against me aswell. Making 10 players trust me and vote with me seems futile.


VOTE: borophil

Are you intentionally wagon hopping or what?

Don, my slot really has no content. ISOing it probably won't give you too many answers.