Newbie 1441 (Game Over)

[Montosh]

Please do look this over guys, ns was way too eager to lynch on so little evidence. He created a bandwagon, and I got lynched because people were worried that there would be a no lynch day 1 and so jumped on the largest bandwagon to avoid a no lynch.

So in essence: ns is the scummiest of all. Jacob ranks just below ns on the scum radar.

[notscience]

Little evidence?

He's trolling twilight, because I had a metric fuckton of evidence.

Pardon my french.

[Montosh]

@notscience You might want to look over your definition of evidence.

[Zaicon]

Final Vote Count - Day 1

Montosh (5):

Drake Crusader, Nominull, Spaces, Tigris, notscience

TRG (1):

JacobSavage

notscience (1):

Montosh

No Vote (2):

SecondEngineer, TRG

Montosh,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched!

It is now Night 1. The deadline is Saturday, November 2, at 12:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-11-02 12:00:00).

Also, Brian Skies replaces TRG.

[Zaicon]

No one has died Night 1.

---

►►Day 2◄◄

Vote Count 2.0

No Vote (8):

Brian Skies, Drake Crusader, JacobSavage, Nominull, notscience, SecondEngineer, Spaces, Tigris

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Saturday, November 16 at 2:30 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-11-16 14:30:00).

[notscience]

Hm

[SecondEngineer]

If no one died, does this mean our mafia could be inactive? If they had decided who to kill, wouldn't the Night have ended earlier? These questions are mostly because I'm new.

[notscience]

If no one died, does this mean our mafia could be inactive? If they had decided who to kill, wouldn't the Night have ended earlier? These questions are mostly because I'm new.

Mods keep nights open the entire time to prevent accidentally revealing roles. So no. this is more likely a successful BP, JK, or Doc.

[Nominull]

Welcome to the game, Brian Skies! Get owned, scum!

VOTE: notscience

Terrible town is a good cover story for you to use, but it was a bridge too far when you denied Montosh's claim during twilight citing "a metric fuckton of evidence". Nobody is

that

senselessly hubristic.

[notscience]

Welcome to the game, Brian Skies! Get owned, scum!

VOTE: notscience

Terrible town is a good cover story for you to use, but it was a bridge too far when you denied Montosh's claim during twilight citing "a metric fuckton of evidence". Nobody is

that

senselessly hubristic.

lol

[Spaces]

@NS, Why are you laughing at Nom? He makes a good point. Are you even

remotely

phased that Montosh flipped town?
At first I thought you might be bussing your mafia pal, but now I wonder if you're just bluffing your role. Part of me feels like there would be NO WAY you would go so viciously after someone you KNEW was town if you were mafia, but if your play style is brazen and brash, then it's not inconceivable that you might try that tactic.

[JacobSavage]

To be honest getting someone's alignment completely off isn't that weird, and doesn't mean that you are scum. It often means that you made a good case on what you had and either you convinced town or scum jumped on it. Given how slowly it actually took off I wouldn't be surprised if one of Drake / ns was scum.

Personally I'm reading much of their interactions as town on town, scum would have tried to give themselves more wiggle-room after the lynch went down and it was becoming clear that they were scum. Scum would have know this and would have slacked off.

So

VOTE: Drake

[Spaces]

To be honest getting someone's alignment completely off isn't that weird, and doesn't mean that you are scum.

I agree that getting alignment wrong isn't grounds to be scum. It's more how over the top NS is being. When someone is doing something SO MUCH that the only thing one could say is, "Well there's no way that he could be mafia with that attitude," then it very well could be a mafia strategy to play it up. It's the entire concept behind bussing. But I would like to see what NS does this phase before analyzing further.

Concerning Drake, his posts at the end of last phase were suspicious, but also confusing. I still want to hear what was up with the Montosh/Jacob jumble, because I've read his posts several times over, and I still can't figure out what he was saying. From the way he phrased it, it sounded like he knew Montosh was mafia, and was trying to get Jacob killed instead? But since Montosh turned out to be town, he wasn't defending Montosh.

For now NS and Drake are at the top of my list, and I'd really like to hear more from the both of them about their actions at the end of D1.

[notscience]

@NS, Why are you laughing at Nom? He makes a good point. Are you even remotely phased that Montosh flipped town?
At first I thought you might be bussing your mafia pal, but now I wonder if you're just bluffing your role. Part of me feels like there would be NO WAY you would go so viciously after someone you KNEW was town if you were mafia, but if your play style is brazen and brash, then it's not inconceivable that you might try that tactic.

If you're curious in how I act as town and scum and want to read games of both just ask. I laughed because it's predictable as fuck.

Now, of course I'm phased. But, being phased is a null tell in and of itself. Why? Scum hardpush a ML- oh man I was wrong. What does town who does that say?

[Brian Skies]

Hi! I have a bit of a heavy game-load and I can't be bothered to wrap my head around this game right now, so I probably won't be able to get a full catch-up until Monday or Tuesday. There are only 14 pages, I know, but you guys talk a lot in those posts (and it's not always coherent right away). And my attention is currently being pulled elsewhere.

modus operandi: Wall-posts, general inactivity (I don't flake, at least not too hard; never replaced out so no need to worry about that).

VOTE: SecondEngineer

Anyhow, you guys are coming at notscience pretty hard. I really want to know what he's done this time.

[notscience]

Hi! I have a bit of a heavy game-load and I can't be bothered to wrap my head around this game right now, so I probably won't be able to get a full catch-up until Monday or Tuesday. There are only 14 pages, I know, but you guys talk a lot in those posts (and it's not always coherent right away). And my attention is currently being pulled elsewhere.

modus operandi: Wall-posts, general inactivity (I don't flake, at least not too hard; never replaced out so no need to worry about that).

VOTE: SecondEngineer

Anyhow, you guys are coming at notscience pretty hard. I really want to know what he's done this time.

Brian I think SE is town

And I hard pushed a ML D1 on someone who was scummerific

[Drake Crusader]

To be honest getting someone's alignment completely off isn't that weird, and doesn't mean that you are scum.

I agree that getting alignment wrong isn't grounds to be scum. It's more how over the top NS is being. When someone is doing something SO MUCH that the only thing one could say is, "Well there's no way that he could be mafia with that attitude," then it very well could be a mafia strategy to play it up. It's the entire concept behind bussing. But I would like to see what NS does this phase before analyzing further.

Concerning Drake, his posts at the end of last phase were suspicious, but also confusing. I still want to hear what was up with the Montosh/Jacob jumble, because I've read his posts several times over, and I still can't figure out what he was saying. From the way he phrased it, it sounded like he knew Montosh was mafia, and was trying to get Jacob killed instead? But since Montosh turned out to be town, he wasn't defending Montosh.

For now NS and Drake are at the top of my list, and I'd really like to hear more from the both of them about their actions at the end of D1.

I clearly thought that JS and MON were a scum pair. I was under the impression that the way Montosh played and the careful convincing from NotScience that he was defiantly mafia. Having him flip town really does mess my whole thought process up. The was jacob was playing I still believe he could be scum. However , the chances of that are slim since the whole idea relied heavily on Montosh being a scum flip.
I still find it odd that JS did indeed vote on me while it was known that only me and montosh were posting about him. SecondEngineer is also a little shady however, I need to remake my list and read this stuff over. Lynching a town on my first game when I was dead set on his demise is not what I wanted to achieve.

[Nominull]

You "clearly thought"?

[Tigris]

Had to work all weekend and a lot to think about in regards to this game, so will post tonight after get a chance to sit down.

[Brian Skies]

Brian I think SE is town

Why do you think he's town?

SecondEngineer is also a little shady

Why do you think he's shady?


My catch-up post will come sometime in the afternoon or tonight.

[notscience]

Why do you think he's town?

Look a lot like that town newbie mislynch bait.

[Tigris]

So, no kill last night. Best case scenario of the three methods of protection (discounting no night kill since find unlikely) would be if jailkeeper without bulletproof or doctor with tracker.

Rethinking my stances on a few people based on the montosh flip.

Given how slowly it actually took off I wouldn't be surprised if one of Drake / ns was scum.

Personally I'm reading much of their interactions as town on town, scum would have tried to give themselves more wiggle-room after the lynch went down and it was becoming clear that they were scum. Scum would have know this and would have slacked off.

notscience is either town or playing the 'too aggressive to be mafia' type. Still leaning more towards the first. So, I agree with the second half, curious what you mean by the first. Think I understand it, but can be taken differing ways.

Am also curious to see brian skies' views on things as often a replacement will be able to see things more clearly due to lack of bias.

For now, going to have to re-read the posts from when montosh replaced in to the end of the day. Still suspicious of drake, but perhaps it was misplaced. With fresh amount of time, can more easily examine and think about things.

[Drake Crusader]

You "clearly thought"?

From looking back. I believed he was scum from his defensive actions and just asking to be lynched for a period of time. That and with the blinders engaged on NotScience I felt that he was scum. NotScience kept him edgy and I became convinced he was scum. Then the talk of lynching himself which I gathered was not a town thing to do. However, I see that I must of overlooked something.

SecondEngineer is also a little shady

Why do you think he's shady?

My catch-up post will come sometime in the afternoon or tonight.

He seems to be hiding. He came out of his shell when the Montosh NS scene was in full swing for about 2 posts. Then he just dropped back off the radar. I guess shady isn't the best word. It would be seems odd instead.

[Brian Skies]

Page 1

14 I like this post. Finds something odd and comments on it. Discussion is good.
17 This is generally a good response.
19 Of the posts on the first page, this one is my favorite. Nom lays down a naked vote and Drake immediately pounces.
24 I think my predecessor has misconceptions about the RVS stage. Ambiguity might be anti-town. But promoting discussion and trying to move us away from RVS is pro-town.

Page 2

26 I can see a player of both alignments saying this. A town player might see it as a reason to push something they think is suspicious. A scum-player might use it as a reason to jump on the wagon. I'll leave it as null.
29 Sounds frustrated. TRG wants a solid response from Nom about the vote and Nom keeps skirting around it with his SE interactions.
33 The push here is just okay. I don't see Second's justification to be that big of a deal.
34 This post is good, but it's not alignment indicative. I can see any experienced player making this statement.
35 This is a good post and something that should have been addressed. Probably the only thing that points to town in this little clutter of posts.
37 Still a solid defense.
38 Interesting chip-in by JacobSavage. I don't know how to appraise it because I thought he was just a hardcore lurker. Must be his IC responsibilities.
39 This person has been fairly disappointing so far. A lot of fluff and talk about rust. I hope it gets better.
41 Interesting observation that should have led to him making or discussing reads.
43 I like the discussion in this post as a whole. I feel like Drake is actually trying to piece this out. It feels genuine. My general rule of thumb is RVS ends as soon as people start pushing each other and try to form reads. You can read more on it here.
46 This is an interesting response from Nom that I don't find alignment indicative, but only because I think it could have been faked.
47 The explanation for the vote is pretty sound here and the discussion that was generated from said vote was pretty good. I like the timing of when he decided to give his reasoning. Any longer and the responses he would have garnered would have been weird and probably not usable.
49 Oddly enough, I actually like this response. I can see how the two posts between Second and JS could be comparable.

Page 3

50 His vote on Frettory reminds me of me. I was destined for this slot.
52 On one hand, I'm scum-reading the push against Second because it feels out of place. On the other, she makes a good point that the statement didn't need the sarcasm tag. The interactions with TRG are pretty good though and I like how she's clearing things up. I like the part about her asking TRG why he just immediately assumed Nom's vote was serious. The one thing I don't like is Raven calling out a misrep against her.
53 Second's post actually kind of does compare to the post from JS. Neither one was meant to be taken seriously. I can see the issue Raven has with Second though, as it looks like he's trying to share blame. But it makes sense to me from his perspective.
56 First serious vote from this slot this game. It does worry me that it comes after Raven's push on the slot and it might be to hop on a wagon before it gains steam. I need to see more.
58 Regarding unvotes, it's better to take your vote off of someone you don't find scummy and move it to somebody that you do find scummy. I have a bad habit of leaving my votes on people too long because I don't know where else to put it. Everything else in the post looks town to me.
61 Another weird chip-in from JS. But I can see why he would be uncomfortable with Tigris.
62 Good response.
63 Who was your main suspect and why weren't you voting him? Montosh replaced Frettory and wasn't at L-1. TRG was at L-2 and I don't remember you scum-reading him.
64 I wonder what caused him to unvote and if a re-read had anything to do with it (looking at timestamps here).
65 This is an okay post. Good questions, but shallow.
66 What about it holds merit? I feel like this argument is getting way more credit than it deserves.
68 Some players can be very open as scum. Openness is not a town-tell.
69 This guy is still in full-blown SE mode right now. It feels genuine, but not town.
70 This is an interesting response that I don't find scummy. So this wasn't the reason he was lynched, or at least it shouldn't have been.
74 This is a very iffy post. Insider information isn't scummy as people tend to be more familiar with certain players. I also don't like the FOS at the end. He's not voting anybody, so I don't see a reason to not vote. And the FOS on Nom instead of Raven is a red flag. If anything got him lynched, it was probably this post.

Page 4

75 Interesting observation from JS. But the post that raises the red flags is 74, not 70.
79 I like this guy. He's the only person oozing towniness for me. Everyone else is sketchy.
83 Really? I don't see how this makes post 70 scum-motivated. He obviously saw something he didn't like and pulled his vote back for that reason. You're attacking the wrong post.
85 Good attack from notscience.
86 Another bad post from Montosh. He's not looking so hot.
87 And notscience revives the slot for me. Been scum-reading Raven up till this point.
89 This sounds genuine.
90 Not really sold on a town-read at this stage of the game. He hasn't really done anything. If at any point I'm convinced he's scum, I'm coming after him. You've seen this.
92 I'm really interested to hear why it's more likely to be scum-motivated instead of town-motivated. This jump feels wrong.
93 He redeems himself here though.
95 The logic here is pretty impressive coming from a newbie, but it's pretty sound. The only part I have an issue with is the "Montosh seems like a follower. Does that make him scum?" part. It feels like he's still trying to shed responsibility. It's still pretty damn impressive, though. Would have been nice if this wasn't the only person he tried to scum-hunt.
97 What have you been doing this game?
99 This is a pretty good post and it's kind of like the icing on the cake. It genuinely feels like he thinks he may have caught scum.

Page 5

101 Why do you think JS could have been a buddy with Montosh?
102 I'm extremely interested in the logic here, notscience.
103 I generally like the logic presented in this post. But there are no new lines of thought. Feels like you're going along with the flow this game.
104 This is an okay post. I agree that Raven was kind of suspicious, but not for the reasoning in 74.
105 I'd find it hard to believe that this is scum-notscience at this point. He makes too much sense.
107 This makes me sad because he is. Both town and scum can feel trapped. The trick is distinguishing the difference between the two.
108 I can see notscience thinking this. But I've given town the feeling of being trapped. My walls do that to people.
110 Being wagoned and up for a lynch puts you in a very good spot because you can try to pick out which players are most likely to be scum based on the way they're pushing you. I find notscience to be the least likely right now. I feel like notscience legitimately believes you are scum. The other people (with the exception of Second), not so much.
112 Pretty good argument, but I'd like to see more out of this slot.
114 I wonder what your opinion on said "not neutral" action was.
115 The gingerly argument is iffy for me because you're not applying it to Second as well (or Spaces, or Tigris). The part about voting you instead of Raven is good, but would have been better if notscience hadn't already pointed out.
121

And this is where I stop because TRG has a reads list on the next page and I need sleep.

Town

Drake
notscience
Nom
Second Engineer
Spaces
Jacob
Montosh
Tigris

Scum

[Nominull]

105 I'd find it hard to believe that this is scum-notscience at this point. He makes too much sense.

He's making

sense

, but if sense serves the purposes of the mafia they will freely make sense. It's clear that in this case Montosh blew it and let the scum sensibly lynch him.

As a general rule of thumb pushing to lynch a townie is not a towntell.