Newbie 1444 ~ Game Ovah ~ Mafia Win

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:51 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 499, cxinlee wrote:@Thor: why did you call burn scum without looking at other perspectives? Like talah said, it is possible he thought you were scum for trying to push for his lynch early in the game. Not the pressure. The lynch.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that because it feels like a very silly question.

I take a bite of a hot dog.
I declare that I don't like the taste of it.
You ask me why I didn't consider that I like it.

I feel like that's what just went down.

Burn did something.
I asked him about it.
He answered.
I asked him some more questions.
He answered those.
I asked him a third set of questions about the action.
He answered those.
I declared that his belief system doesn't appear to hold water and that I find it scummy.

Please clarify for me how you think I showed *lack* of consideration.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:49 am

Post by burn_209 »

Can we get a vote count please?

I still dont like how Thor gives half ass answers and has honestly hasnt added anything. Its like he is sitting back and is taking it all in, calculating, and not letting us know what he is thinking. If you are town you would want your thought process out there so that you can work as a team with us and get other peoples opinion. The town is supposed to and normally does work as a team and I dont see you doing that. Its going to take something drastic to change my vote as of right now. I just think he is the scummiest player right now.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:07 am

Post by Malakittens »

Replacing Montosh who didn't respond to the prod.

Also for the record -- I try and put a VC at the start of every page. You don't have to ask for one as they will come when I get the next avaible chance.

2.07With 8 alive it's 5 votes to lynch

Voting for:


*Kytoxid -
*Montosh -
*Cxinlee -
*Zipperflesh - Thor665, Cxinlee [2]
*burn_209 -
*1baldeagle1 - Kytoxid [1]
*Bulbazak -
*Thor665 - Zipperflesh, burn_209, 1baldeagle1 [3] [L-2]

Not voting: Montosh, Bulbazak [2]



Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-11-21 16:12:00)
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:39 am

Post by burn_209 »

Man people just keep replacing out...

in the mean time Kyto and Zipper where is your list at?
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:48 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 501, burn_209 wrote:I still dont like how Thor gives half Smurf answers and has honestly hasnt added anything.
I have added and created multiple wagons and reads - indeed, most of the major wagons are based off information I brought to light one way or the other.
Also, what questions am I still not answering? I feel like I keep offering to do o and you keep evading saying what isn't answered.
In post 501, burn_209 wrote:Its like he is sitting back and is taking it all in, calculating, and not letting us know what he is thinking. If you are town you would want your thought process out there so that you can work as a team with us and get other peoples opinion.
Riiiiight, so I'm "sitting back" when I was trying to lynch you yesterday? I was "taking it all in" when I opened up today with a strongly stated desire to lynch Zipper?
What are you even talking about?
In post 501, burn_209 wrote: The town is supposed to and normally does work as a team and I dont see you doing that.
Specifically how are YOU doing that? I need to know so I know what it is I'm not doing.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:44 pm

Post by burn_209 »

How am I doing that? By giving my reads and cooperating with the rest of the town. When have you cooperates with the town. Cooperating with the town isn't your strong suit is it
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:57 pm

Post by Kytoxid »

In post 495, 1baldeagle1 wrote:Also, can you explain your vote on me please? Not sure why you are voting for me, so I want good reasons to justify the vote.
In short, your position on burn has me very confused. I won't post a wall about it like talah did, but post pinged everyone's scum radars, not just mine. I'm trying to pull out more reasons for the reversal, but not much is coming out. The slot wasn't very helpful before you joined either.

That, combined with the L-1 vote that I felt was weak in reasoning is basically why I'm voting you.

Between you and Zipper, the situation around his slot is still developing. I'm waiting for him to respond before deciding whether my vote would be better placed there.
In post 499, cxinlee wrote:And if you really want my list
Bulba
Burn
Kyto
Baldeagle, Montosh, Zipper, Thor (tie)
Bottom 4 are null
Getting close to deadline, going to have to resort to this to choose how I use my vote
VOTE: zipper
Why zipper over the other 3 if it's a tie? Wouldn't Thor be a better choice since he has a wagon on him? In fact, the only other vote on Zipper is by Thor, while your townreads' votes are elsewhere.
burn_209 wrote:Man people just keep replacing out...

in the mean time Kyto and Zipper where is your list at?
I'm losing a lot of motivation for this game because of all the replacements too. =/ Here's my list. Middle 4 are fairly close.

Bulba
Thor/burn
Montosh/cxinlee
Eagle/Zipper

I re-read your ISO and you didn't seem as scummy as I pegged you at before (just confused sometimes), so you're null-town for now.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:08 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

Bulbazak's Catchup Reads


Town


Kytoxid
: He's been actively scumhunting, and you can tell that he is actually trying to figure things out. Definitely town.

Thor665
: He's a strong player in general, and I agree with my predecessor's logic in relation to the night actions. Thor was more than likely targeted by the scum team, which suggests that scum do not want him in this game. This also makes newbie scum more likely, as most experienced scum know better than to aim at the IC n1 in a Newbie game. I like how he's trying to figure people's motivations out, and I agree with him in regards to Burn and Zipper. I also think that his interaction with Sakura during twilight of d1 is more likely to come from town than scum. Sorry, but I'm not lynching him under any circumstances today.

Null/Town


1baldeagle1
: I've recently come to understand how he thinks a little bit more, and he genuinely looks like he's trying to figure things out, although not effectively. He's probably town.

Cxinlee
: I liked Micc and got a general town feel from him. Cxinlee hasn't really done much overall, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for his predecessor's sake.

Null


Montosh
: Gale looked like he could have been a Newbie honestly trying to learn how to play. Sure, there were a few things that pinged, but that could have been the result of his newbiness. So overall, null. His replacement really didn't leave much of an impression either.

Scum


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: I thought it was funny how many people called Zipper town because of his catchup posts. That just goes to show that they really didn't read them. Many players will actually write off walls as coming from town, regardless of the content, simply because they hold the notion that scum wouldn't put forth the effort. However, that is not the case. Take Zipper's catchup posts, for instance. All they are composed of are a bunch of quotes followed by filler. There's no critical analysis from these posts, just throwaway lines. It's simply put together for appearence's sake, rather than to actually scumhunt. Not to mention his votes have simply been following the general flow of the game, i.e. where the majority was going anyway. Then there is the Thor push, which is probably the most opportunistic thing in this entire game, using the momentum from a dead townie's final reads, which even she wasn't 100% positive on since she interacted with Thor in twilight AS IF HE WAS TOWN. I'm really not seeing the town motivation here.

Burn_209
: Where do I start... His posts are not genuine, rather very calculated and manipulative, meant to look like a lot, but saying very little. He also hasn't had very strong stances, always keeping his options open. You'll see things like, "Well, she might be scum, but she might not.", or that 48/52 crap. It's all meant to keep everyone on the table as possible lynch targets. His play just doesn't feel natural. He's trying too hard to act like town, rather than just being town. A good example of this is all of his complaining about nobody posting. If he actually had a problem with that, then why didn't he do something to try to stir up activity. Complaining about it does nothing, except put on the appearance of being pro-town. The same thing goes with his recent push to have everybody post reads lists. He was the only one that was asked to post one, but he then thinks "Hey, this looks like a thing a townie would do. I'm going to do it as well, so that maybe someone will think I'm town.". It's not done naturally, i.e. it's fake. And did anybody else catch him commenting on the lack of the night kill at the beginning of the day? I'm surprised Thor or somebody else didn't try to nail his feet to the floor for that one. Last but not least, let's look at what he's pushing others on. We're talking about things like sheeping, tunneling, and "trying to get a lynch on page 2", which are mostly null tells, but can seem significant enough for scum to try to push mislynches on. Face it, he's done zero serious scumhunting. He's just repeated the reasoning on others and waffled a lot until it looked like that person's wagon might take off. This is not town behavior. This is scum behavior, through and through.

Vote Zipperflesh
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:44 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 505, burn_209 wrote:How am I doing that? By giving my reads and cooperating with the rest of the town. When have you cooperates with the town. Cooperating with the town isn't your strong suit is it
So, basically you're saying I'm too convinced I'm right...and that it's scummy that I don't think I'm wrong enough to want to lynch people other than who I want to lynch.
I'm not sure that's actually scummy in any way, shape, or form.
In post 507, Bulbazak wrote:And did anybody else catch him commenting on the lack of the night kill at the beginning of the day? I'm surprised Thor or somebody else didn't try to nail his feet to the floor for that one.
Why should we think that is scummy? I agree that he's scum, but I see that sort of commentary from newb town as much as I do from newb scum.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:48 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 508, Thor665 wrote:
In post 507, Bulbazak wrote:And did anybody else catch him commenting on the lack of the night kill at the beginning of the day? I'm surprised Thor or somebody else didn't try to nail his feet to the floor for that one.
Why should we think that is scummy? I agree that he's scum, but I see that sort of commentary from newb town as much as I do from newb scum.
I've seen that tell come from scum more than town. You're right that it's probably more of a newb tell in Newbie games, but you can normally tell if it's based on newbiness or if it's an actual tell given the overall composition of the player's posts. With Burn, it's obvious that he knows what he's doing, making that not a newbie tell.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:00 pm

Post by Thor665 »

He reads more Newbie to me than to you then, clearly. What makes him feel more experienced to you?
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:08 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 510, Thor665 wrote:What makes him feel more experienced to you?
He has a confidence that new players generally don't have. Plus, he knows enough about the game to use the basic, but obsolete, scum tells that are sheeping and tunneling. I'm not saying it's a perfect scum game, hence the tells, but it is evidence that he's played before. I even think he said so himself.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:55 pm

Post by zipperflesh »

In post 507, Bulbazak wrote:
Bulbazak's Catchup Reads


Scum


Zipperflesh
: I thought it was funny how many people called Zipper town because of his catchup posts. That just goes to show that they really didn't read them. Many players will actually write off walls as coming from town, regardless of the content, simply because they hold the notion that scum wouldn't put forth the effort. However, that is not the case. Take Zipper's catchup posts, for instance. All they are composed of are a bunch of quotes followed by filler. There's no critical analysis from these posts, just throwaway lines. It's simply put together for appearence's sake, rather than to actually scumhunt. Not to mention his votes have simply been following the general flow of the game, i.e. where the majority was going anyway. Then there is the Thor push, which is probably the most opportunistic thing in this entire game, using the momentum from a dead townie's final reads, which even she wasn't 100% positive on since she interacted with Thor in twilight AS IF HE WAS TOWN. I'm really not seeing the town motivation here.

Vote Zipperflesh
1. I have to disagree with you. I pulled things that stood out to from each as I was playing catch up and followed each quote with an opinion and/or question. What makes you call this " throw away filler"?

2. Did you look at my votes? Obviously, my vote on burn could be construed as following the mob mentality, but I do believe I was the first to express a vote on Antagon. I also took a lot of flak from Thor who couldn't grok my vote switches day 1. If I wanted to ride the easy lynch, wouldn't I have just stayed on burn?

3. Nothing is 100% positive about a town players read. After seeing the flip, I went back and looked over her interactions with Thor and realized she had made a decent point. Which also was against the flow of the town, btw. As burn was still at the forefront of people's mind at day start.
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:01 pm

Post by zipperflesh »

Leaning town

Bulbazak
Kytoxid
Montosh

Null
Cxinlee

Leaning scum
Burn
Eagle
Thor
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:47 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 486, Thor665 wrote:
In post 483, zipperflesh wrote:I find eagle scummy for his sudden change in position. It has nothing to do with you, Thor.
And that the person he flopped on was a person you think is scum didn't affect your read at all?
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:16 am

Post by zipperflesh »

No, Thor it doesn't effect my read. Eagles flop was scummy and makes no sense to me. How many more ways do I have to say it? I'm starting to feel like you'll try to twist everything I say to fit into your case.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:19 am

Post by cxinlee »

The “lack of consideration” was that you weren’t looking at other perspectives.

You taste the hot dog
You don’t like it.
You conclude that hot dogs are horrible.
I say what if it was just poorly cooked? Maybe it was burnt? Maybe you're sick?
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 515, zipperflesh wrote:No, Thor it doesn't effect my read. Eagles flop was scummy and makes no sense to me. How many more ways do I have to say it? I'm starting to feel like you'll try to twist everything I say to fit into your case.
Do you think it's possible that Eagle and I are scum together? Because if his flop was so bad as to make him a scum read for you and yet you're still voting me it looks like either you think we are scum buddies or you are hoping to set up a lynch for tomorrow after I flip town.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 516, cxinlee wrote:The “lack of consideration” was that you weren’t looking at other perspectives.

You taste the hot dog
You don’t like it.
You conclude that hot dogs are horrible.
I say what if it was just poorly cooked? Maybe it was burnt? Maybe you're sick?
It still doesn't make sense - if I was sick I would know that could affect how I feel, if it was burnt I could see that, also, I concluded that *that* hot dog was bad, not that all hot dogs are bad.

But, let's walk with this a bit - can you show where I showcased how I *hadn't* considered his action? As in, the instant I saw it I called him scum as opposed to trying to figure out if maybe he was town? Because I think it is quite clear that I considered he was town, why don't you explain how you figure I didn't.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:49 am

Post by cxinlee »

Well I apparently can't see the obvious (or I just can't fucking read). Would you mind explaining it?

I saw that your conclusion was one-sided, and how it did not add any other possibilities.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:23 am

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 512, zipperflesh wrote: 1. I have to disagree with you. I pulled things that stood out to from each as I was playing catch up and followed each quote with an opinion and/or question. What makes you call this " throw away filler"?
In post 106, zipperflesh wrote:
In post 4, Sakura Hana wrote:/confirm

Hi Antagon, Hi Thor, Hi Talah, nice to play with people I know
Can you elaborate on your past experiences with these players, and why say hi to Antagon first?
In post 5, talah wrote:/confirm

Hi there Sakura!
Highly unlikely you and Sakura are scum mates, however, either of you could still be part of a different scum team.
Seriously, there's no way you'd be trying to draw conclusion from pre-game contentless confirmation posts as town. This is just useless filler meant to make it look like you're scumhunting. I also wasn't impressed with any of your other "conclusions" either, since they were mostly rehashes of things that had been said.
In post 512, zipperflesh wrote: 2. Did you look at my votes? Obviously, my vote on burn could be construed as following the mob mentality, but I do believe I was the first to express a vote on Antagon. I also took a lot of flak from Thor who couldn't grok my vote switches day 1. If I wanted to ride the easy lynch, wouldn't I have just stayed on burn?
Antagon was starting to get some attention when you switched to him. Besides, I think you and Burn are buddies.
In post 512, zipperflesh wrote: 3. Nothing is 100% positive about a town players read. After seeing the flip, I went back and looked over her interactions with Thor and realized she had made a decent point. Which also was against the flow of the town, btw. As burn was still at the forefront of people's mind at day start.
Sakura was going full on last minute paranoid. Those points didn't hold any water, as Thor later pointed out. Plus, the way she interacted with Thor during twilight showed that she still trusted him enough to do some last minute scumhunting. There's no way you do that with a scumread. You played on a dying player's final stated read and used that to push a lynch on a strong player, who you likely failed to kill during the night.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:48 pm

Post by 1baldeagle1 »

Prod dodge, I was planning to post here tonight, but unexpected things came up.

I will post here tomorrow morning.
You can find my meta on my wiki.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:59 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Notscience replaces Montosh.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:01 pm

Post by notscience »

hi
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:24 am

Post by Malakittens »

2.08With 8 alive it's 5 votes to lynch

Voting for:


*Kytoxid -
*Notscience -
*Cxinlee -
*Zipperflesh - Thor665, Cxinlee, Bulbazak [3] [L-2]
*burn_209 -
*1baldeagle1 - Kytoxid [1]
*Bulbazak -
*Thor665 - Zipperflesh, burn_209, 1baldeagle1 [3] [L-2]

Not voting: Notscience [1]



Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-11-22 16:12:00)

I added a day to the deadline due to the outage.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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