Newbie 1455: How We Met The Mafia (Game Over!)

[TwilightsCall]

It seems things have become interesting. In a not good way.

Not sure I outright believe Taco's claim, but judging from what he's said so far, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he was telling the truth either. Either way, I feel like we'd be better off moving to new territory for the time being.

VOTE: techking45

Talk to me.

First things first, I have a question to all of you. What's your experience with mafia? Myself, this is pretty much my first real game.

I've spectated a few, but this is the first game I'm playing myself.

[Pieisgoo]

UNVOTE: Acidic_TACO

With that claim and just about everything else so far I'm starting to think that Taco is less scum and more somebody who hasn't really had experience with mafia at all. Him being inexperienced town would also make his posts make somewhat more sense.

[Bitmap]

UNVOTE:

Well... fuck.

[Bitmap]

wait a minute are you claiming tracker

Get the votes off of him now

Ya I am...considering I'm dead anyway because the mafia is gonna kill me now, doesn't make a difference...
Just wanted to throw out you killed the tracker on the first day.

No, not really. Normal people don't go batshit insane and claim at L-2.

[Dessew]

That question is, of course, hypothetical. Please don't think I'm recommending it lol

Yet you were seriously considering risking a quick lynch of a possible Townie in pretty much the same manner?!

Lynching a townie is really not a big deal, especially on D1. Nice discredit, though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Acidic_TACO

I like this wagon.

It was not town, see below.
UNVOTE: shotty
VOTE: Bitmap

VOTE: TwilightsCall
For being so quick to kill people off already

Hurm....

Are people voting at random?

ANd you weren't?

If the drmyshotgun speaks I can happily condemn him to death, but til then I can't do it, not in my nature.
I'll ask a question, whos in the mob?

So...regardless of what I write in the future, you will "happily condemn" me to death and sheep others?
And the second line rubs me in the wrong way.

I'm gonna keep my vote for now, it can't hurt anyone and I don't feel like lynching a guy that hasn't even posted yet.

No-one really said anything about lynching.

Okay, your case is very bad here. Taco's clearly unfamiliar to the concept of RVS. He didn't join the wagon but he had shown commitment with his TC-vote because that was not random, as he implied. You're also misrepping his post about your not having posted. You haven't played for a while and there are newbies, but Bitmap is an SE with recent experience, he should have noticed it if he was town.

If I was a scum or whatever the term is, you really think I would post so much? If you want answers to anything I've said just ask me in a PM, you can post it or whatever. I just feel better if it feels like its personal when people ask questions so do it in a PM.

First: activity is not alignment indicative.
Second: if you have a question, ask it in the thread or if doing so harmed your wincon, PM the mod, DrPepper, not me. I haven't opened your PM (you can check), please delete it or whatever.

Hello everybody.

First things first, I have a question to all of you. What's your experience with mafia? Myself, this is pretty much my first real game.

VOTE: Acidic_TACO

Also I'm fine with this wagon. Pretty much everything he posted has been suspicious at best. I'm also pretty sure he hasn't actually read the rules seeing as how he wants us to talk to him through PMs.

It's my sixth game here and have played irl a lot.
Pease specify what were so suspicious.

Mmm, I'm going to lump DMS and Pie in the town pile for now.

Reasons?

It seems things have become interesting. In a not good way.

Not sure I outright believe Taco's claim, but judging from what he's said so far, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he was telling the truth either. Either way, I feel like we'd be better off moving to new territory for the time being.

VOTE: techking45

Talk to me.

First things first, I have a question to all of you. What's your experience with mafia? Myself, this is pretty much my first real game.

I've spectated a few, but this is the first game I'm playing myself.

What? Why wouldn't you believe it at least for now? Also, voting inactive people is useless, he might not even going to post at all and get replaced, it isn't as rare in newbies as it should be.

UNVOTE: Acidic_TACO

With that claim and just about everything else so far I'm starting to think that Taco is less scum and more somebody who hasn't really had experience with mafia at all. Him being inexperienced town would also make his posts make somewhat more sense.

The same as to TC.

I don't like pie's and teddy's tonality.

[Dessew]

Oh, and I forgot to add, shotty: taco's approach that he doesn't want to vote somebody without wanting to lynch him is actually the good attitude, not in RVS, though. Nevertheless, it's a newbie, and newbies tend to underestimate the differences between lynches, votes and random votes. Think about players who threaten others with voting them, although they explicitely state that they have no intention to lynch.

[DoctorPepper]

Vote Count 1.01

Not voting(4)

- techking45, RachMarie, Pieisgoo, Bitmap

techking45(1)

- TwilightsCall

drmyshotgun(1)

- Acidic_TACO

RachMarie(1)

- TeedyKay

Acidic_TACO(1)

- drmyshotgun

Bitmap(1)

- Dessew

Vote History:

Pieisgoo - Acidic_TACO, UNVOTE
Acidic_TACO - TwilightsCall, drmyshotgun
techking45
TeedyKay - RachMarie
TwilightsCall - drmyshotgun, UNVOTE, techking45
drmyshotgun - Acidic_TACO
Dessew - drmyshotgun, Bitmap
Bitmap - drmyshotgun, Acidic_TACO, UNVOTE
RachMarie

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, December 10, which is in (expired on 2013-12-07 11:00:00)

Mod notes:

techking45 has 8 hours to confirm before I look for a replacement

[Bitmap]

Hi Dessew,

I hopped on the bandwagon cause it looked like DMS had a good case going on. Also,
Look down to the right. You see the page number? What does it say? Three?

We needed a wagon to stir up discussion. It was very unlikely that Acidic_TACO would just get lynched straight up and his wagon would have probably been analyzed for reactions.

[Dessew]

Ahoi Bitmap!
My point is that shotty's case was bad and it wasn't that hard to see. Also: a wagon's purpose (unless random) is to lynch, analyzing after not lynching is just getting something outta the ruins.

[Acidic_TACO]

Now that it doesn't look like I'm getting lynched...I'm pretty sure the scum will just be on me like nothing else...
I'll keep my vote on shotty unless something comes up, what that something is I dunno.

[TwilightsCall]

Right now I have two primary concerns.

One is with DMS, who's case on Taco seems really...out there. Even as a first time player, I could tell that his posts were a product of not knowing what was going on more than anything bad. Bitmap's backing on the case is kind of suspect too, though I'm still more worried with DMS using such a weak case to start a wagon.

Secondly, there's the situation with Taco himself. It looks like a very obvious case of someone not really knowing what they were getting in to, but that doesn't really speak to his alignment, and it sounds like something that

could

come from over-eager scum in the same boat. Definitely not suspicious enough to lynch him off of it, especially after that claim, but I'm not comfortable writing him off as town just yet. I realize this opinion could be seen as contradictory to my first point, but if this is what DMS and Bitmap were thinking, then they should have said that. The evidence they used was pretty lackluster imo.

Other than those two points, I have some minor things I'm thinking of.

Teedy's post strikes me as an odd thing to say, but his punctuation leads me to not take it too seriously. No real opinion here until we hear some more from him.

Taco, why did you switch your vote to DMS right after his post?

Bitmap, why did you lump Pie and DMS into Town? Okay, you said you liked DMS' case, but even if we ignore how bad it was, I don't see a reason to include Pie.

What? Why wouldn't you believe it at least for now? Also, voting inactive people is useless, he might not even going to post at all and get replaced, it isn't as rare in newbies as it should be.

I figured not dropping a vote on him counted as believing him for now? Since I would definitely push a lynch if I definitively thought he was lying. As far as voting inactives, I was hoping against hope, but as expected I have been let down.

Also @Dessew,

...newbies tend to underestimate the differences between lynches, votes and random votes. Think about players who threaten others with voting them, although they explicitely state that they have no intention to lynch.

Also: a wagon's purpose (unless random) is to lynch, analyzing after not lynching is just getting something outta the ruins.

I feel like these statements are mildly contradictory. It seems to me like you say in the first post that there is a significant difference between voting someone up and trying to lynch them, and even give an example of how players will use it to get information. But then you seem to imply that doing so is a bad idea? Seems like an odd thing to say, especially in posts that were so close to each other, so it makes me feel like I'm misunderstanding your point. Please explain.


So TL;DR I suppose

-Slightly suspicious of DMS and Bitmap
-Keeping an eye on Taco, but I'm okay to let him slide for now
-Not much of a read on anyone else. Looking forward to hear more from Rach, Teedy, and Pie.

No reason to keep my vote where it is, so I'll
UNVOTE: techking45
for now, but I'm not really happy with any of my other options, so I think I'll hang on to my vote for now.

[Acidic_TACO]

Twilight, I did it cause he quoted all my posts as evidence I was scum and voted me to die...plus I said I would vote for him once he posted and cause his reasons are kinda pulled from nowhere with his logic I just think hes scum.

[Dessew]

TC: I also said that it's no big deal if a townie gets lynched. If you put these together, the point is that as it's said, you have to put confidence into your cases. So you should with an intent to lynch but it not something you should shake about. There are some players who take these things way too seriously and refuse to vote or if they vote they state immediately that they don't want to lynch, so their vote causes... slight insomnia? You should vote, too, it's not like we're at LyLo or MyLo.
As for shotty and Bitmap: I think coming up with a bad case is less bad than agreeing with one, and shotty hasn't played for a while as he implied earlier.

Taco: making a post with almost only the ISO of an other player is not elegant but he went into details not much later. If there is a case on you, just try to defend yourself (wihout claiming if possible.) Voting somebody because or mainly because they are voting you is called OMGUS and it's considered to be bad play after RVS.

[Acidic_TACO]

UNVOTE: drmyshotgun
Ah, ok. I'll just vote later when theres more information/close to the deadline.

[Dessew]

No, no, no, that's not what I meant, your vote was just fine if you genuinely think that shotty is scum. Your vote's initial reason sonded like 'how could you think I'm scum, you're scum!', that's why I mentioned OMGUS. But you (and everybody) really should take a stance (by voting.)

[Acidic_TACO]

No, no, no, that's not what I meant, your vote was just fine if you genuinely think that shotty is scum. Your vote's initial reason sonded like 'how could you think I'm scum, you're scum!', that's why I mentioned OMGUS. But you (and everybody) really should take a stance (by voting.)

VOTE: drmyshotgun
He seems like scum...
Not confused anymore just a little rushed.

[drmyshotgun]

Here's where you first voted me Taco.

Gotcha,
VOTE: drmyshotgun

Now did you actually get an instant scumread on me as I posted just like you said you would in this post:

If the drmyshotgun speaks I can happily condemn him to death, but til then I can't do it, not in my nature.
I'll ask a question, whos in the mob?

Hmmm?? The content of my post did not matter but the action of posting itself did?
Or is your vote purely an Oh-My-God-You-Suck?

Cut by Taco, and ok thats enough.

UNVOTE: drmyshotgun

Lets not get too hasty here

Too hasty for what?

If I was a scum or whatever the term is, you really think I would post so much?

Posts like these can be defined as: Wine in front of me. WIFOM for short.
It originates from the movie Princess Bride where there's a scene where this villain has two cups of wine one filled with actual wine and the other filled with poison.
It could be either of the cups. It doesn't help if the villain recommends the cup on the left, actually it makes the problem worse.
I do not know what you would do if you are scum. Although I do think posting a lot is a sign of Town-ness, but once again, its the content of the post that matters and the action of posting itself is secondary.

Hello everybody.

First things first, I have a question to all of you. What's your experience with mafia? Myself, this is pretty much my first real game.

Hi there. This is actually my first game in about a year.
Lots of things may have changed, but maybe its just plain old mafia still.

Well crap...seeing as I'm dead anyway, might as well...is it possible I could post a picture as proof of my innocence?

Umm, page 2 is not an ideal page count to lynch someone.

UNVOTE: Acidic_Taco
No reason to be voting a claimed PR on Day 1.
But in all seriousness, your reliance on your Role and not making a valid case to get yourself out of heat is a worrying play.

By the way guys, since when did they put Trackers in Newbie game?
I thought Cops, Doctors were the simple, clean and good roles for Newbies to play with.
And Jailkeepers itself was kinda pushing boundaries and now Trackers????

wait a minute are you claiming tracker

Get the votes off of him now

This post rubs me in the wrong way.
Bad Rach is bad. And I think I was rarely wrong with my reads on RachMarie a year ago. Let's see what happens in this one.

BTW

IC note here:

Especialy on D1 it is important NOT to claim whether as a VT or as a PR unless you are at L-1 with intent to hammer on you, or it is very close to deadline to give people a chance to switch over to another wagon if you are a PR.

You are just giving the scum info they do not need to have, scum already has more info than town.

Again, this

looks

useful seeing that this is a newbie game, but then again when I try to grasp its content relevance to the game itself, its hallow and disappears in thin air.
Contains fact alright, but its meaning? None.

[drmyshotgun]

Let's see what's going on in page 3 shall we?

It seems things have become interesting. In a not good way.

Not sure I outright believe Taco's claim, but judging from what he's said so far, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he was telling the truth either. Either way, I feel like we'd be better off moving to new territory for the time being.

VOTE: techking45

Talk to me.

First line: fluff.
Second line: Fencesitting. Fence-sitting is when you are putting yourself in a rather convenient position inbetween the two possible outcomes of an event.
Like this: "Hmm he could be right...but then again he could be wrong!"
Fence-sitting in my book is scummy.

Third line: votes someone who has yet to even confirm and expects him to "Talk to me."
Why not to all of us?

UNVOTE:

Well... fuck.

I smell some manufactured reaction in this post. Add that to buddying in post 41, it does smell like a manufactured cookie just for me, but I shall be cautious with interacting with you, Bitmap.

Now here's my game:

VOTE: TwilightsCall
For being so quick to kill people off already

Hurm....

Are people voting at random?

ANd you weren't?

If the drmyshotgun speaks I can happily condemn him to death, but til then I can't do it, not in my nature.
I'll ask a question, whos in the mob?

So...regardless of what I write in the future, you will "happily condemn" me to death and sheep others?
And the second line rubs me in the wrong way.

I'm gonna keep my vote for now, it can't hurt anyone and I don't feel like lynching a guy that hasn't even posted yet.

No-one really said anything about lynching.

Okay, your case is very bad here. Taco's clearly unfamiliar to the concept of RVS. He didn't join the wagon but he had shown commitment with his TC-vote because that was not random, as he implied. You're also misrepping his post about your not having posted. You haven't played for a while and there are newbies, but Bitmap is an SE with recent experience, he should have noticed it if he was town.

There was only a page or so of posts, so the case can not be perfect. But given the resources and the content available, I dare say that it was solid and relevant.
Perhaps yeah, I may have overestimated the newbies' ability.
But I do not understand that part where I misrepped TACO.

Oh, and I forgot to add, shotty: taco's approach that he doesn't want to vote somebody without wanting to lynch him is actually the good attitude, not in RVS, though. Nevertheless, it's a newbie, and newbies tend to underestimate the differences between lynches, votes and random votes. Think about players who threaten others with voting them, although they explicitely state that they have no intention to lynch.

I see. Well well well. Dessew seems like the most insightful, down to earth player at the moment (perhaps its his experience in the game but still).

I'll keep my vote on shotty unless something comes up, what that something is I dunno.

Sure hope this "something" you are talking about is what you will go and find yourself, not others find it and you claim it.

No, no, no, that's not what I meant, your vote was just fine if you genuinely think that shotty is scum. Your vote's initial reason sonded like 'how could you think I'm scum, you're scum!', that's why I mentioned OMGUS. But you (and everybody) really should take a stance (by voting.)

VOTE: drmyshotgun
He seems like scum...
Not confused anymore just a little rushed.

Er, I haven't seen any case from you saying why I "seem like Scum" except for that "Gotcha" right after I voted you, so please enlighten me on your thoughts so that I can prove you wrong.

[Bitmap]

Bitmap, why did you lump Pie and DMS into Town? Okay, you said you liked DMS' case, but even if we ignore how bad it was, I don't see a reason to include Pie.

I thought Pie was leaning town at that point because putting a vote on the wagon helps generate content as you can now tell.

[Bitmap]

@DMS: Talk to me. You are saying Rach rubs you in wrong ways. Elaborate. I've played with Rach a couple of times both when she was town and when she was scum. In both times, she's usually really lurky or kind of useless.

@Acidic_TACO: Is DMS your only read as scum at this point? Considering you are "conf-town", what do you think about the other players?

Ahoi Bitmap!
My point is that shotty's case was bad and it wasn't that hard to see. Also: a wagon's purpose (unless random) is to lynch, analyzing after not lynching is just getting something outta the ruins.

Wrong. I believe a wagon this early in the game is to transition out of RVS and on to real content. That wagon fufilled its purpose.

[drmyshotgun]

@DMS: Talk to me. You are saying Rach rubs you in wrong ways. Elaborate. I've played with Rach a couple of times both when she was town and when she was scum. In both times, she's usually really lurky or kind of useless.

@Acidic_TACO: Is DMS your only read as scum at this point? Considering you are "conf-town", what do you think about the other players?

Yes the RachMarie I remember pretty much matches your description of her play.
As for things to elaborate, I don't see much thing to elaborate from what she's posted so far.

But to try my best:
She seems to be giving semi-important facts of the game of Mafia, but not specific to this game itself.
I don't really see the relevance in her posts. No reads, no reactions, no interactions.

wait a minute are you claiming tracker

Get the votes off of him now

In this post, she just confirms what's so obvious from TACO's post that he claimed "Tracker".
She doesn't see why the votes were on him in the first place and doesn't look at anyone or anything else BUT the claim itself and takes charge in this "get the votes off!!!" express train.

And this post:

BTW

IC note here:

Especialy on D1 it is important NOT to claim whether as a VT or as a PR unless you are at L-1 with intent to hammer on you, or it is very close to deadline to give people a chance to switch over to another wagon if you are a PR.

You are just giving the scum info they do not need to have, scum already has more info than town.

I've already mentioned in my post #66, that she only "appears useful" but not useful for the game.
It is a post containing "How to Play Mafia" instruction, but it bears no meaning for this game Newbie 1455.

[drmyshotgun]

Also @ Btimap:

@Acidic_TACO: Is DMS your only read as scum at this point? Considering you are "conf-town", what do you think about the other players?

While I do agree that the claimed Tracker is not to be touched on Day 1, are you sure you want to use the term "Conf-Town" to describe TACO at this point? Sure he seems genuine but do you perhaps more information than use as to say he is Conf-Town?

[drmyshotgun]

EBWOP:

Also @ Btimap:

@Acidic_TACO: Is DMS your only read as scum at this point? Considering you are "conf-town", what do you think about the other players?

While I do agree that the claimed Tracker is not to be touched on Day 1, but are you sure you want to use the term "Conf-Town" to describe TACO at this point?
Sure, he seems genuine but do you perhaps have more information than us as to say he is Conf-Town?

[Acidic_TACO]

It might just be his attitude, I dunno. I might be misidentifying a personality I wouldn't get along with for scum, other games I played had much more RP stuff in it so people would adjust their posts to match the character given in their roles.
As for me being conf-town, I appreciate your trust but it might be a bit too quick to give to me, I haven't shown any proof other then saying I'm the tracker to get myself out of a lynch and into being killed at night by the scum.
If they don't block my power I'd be happy to share paraphrased results as validity of my claim.
UNVOTE: drmyshotgun
You overanalyzing everything is your hobby apparently, I thought it was aggressive at first and thats how I used to tell scum from town in games.

[Bitmap]

Also @ Btimap:

@Acidic_TACO: Is DMS your only read as scum at this point? Considering you are "conf-town", what do you think about the other players?

While I do agree that the claimed Tracker is not to be touched on Day 1, are you sure you want to use the term "Conf-Town" to describe TACO at this point? Sure he seems genuine but do you perhaps more information than use as to say he is Conf-Town?

Hence the quotation marks around "conf-town" considering no one hinted at his claim being bogus.

Also, why not put your vote at Rach?