Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[Grimgroove]

I find pushing townreads less important than pushing scumreads, which is what I've been doing with tier/who.So wait; if I kept with the hermy-hammer thought process, I'd be scummy, and because I backed off it, I'm scummy? Thanks for the vote of confidence there.Also you claim that I was pushing Hermy, but I didn't vote Hermy did I? So what does that mean to you?

I'm not talking about pushing townreads. I'm talking about you questioning why people townread you. Tiershift gave you a blanket townread, Turkish Van gave you a townread over bullshit, and BROseidon simply called it "Obvious". You didn't question any of those.
You are scummy for bringing up this Hermy-hammer thing, and you're scummy for dropping the idea I'd be somehow involved with that even though you had it on your mind initially. Your language in 213 showed that in the way you referred to me in relation to Hermy. When I asked you about it you completely dropped it.
The fact you didn't vote Hermy doesn't mean you didn't push her, it just means you were low-profile about it.

[Grimgroove]

I have him as weak town.

Why?

Because I read confusion as being more of a town trait than a scum trait from how I play. Who seems more lost than anything else.

Why doesn't this apply to Tiershift?

[BROseidon]

He's expressed confidence, and then whenever things haven't gone his way been super apologetic but still vaguely confident.

[Trine]

Should read: I agree that

some of

the players uninterested in the Who wagon are scummy in their own rights, and particularly like your Turkish Van read.

~ Zoya

Who is 'some of'?

Primarily TV. To a lesser extent Hermy/Eek, though we don't really have anything Eek-specific upon which to consider yet.

And if Who is hammered before Eek has a chance to post some reads, I will be most displeased with the hammerer.

~ Zoya.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count 1.17

Who (4) - Trine, Turkish Van, Grimgroove, XScorpion

TierShift (2) - Desperado, BROseidon
My Milked Eek (2) - Who, TierShift

Not Voting (1) - My Milked Eek

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 14th, 12 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-14 12:00:00)

[TierShift]

Stating intent to hammer

I'm going with the logic d1 lynch>d1 no lynch and nullread lynch>town lynch.


Who, I will hammer at

2 hours before deadline

. Until then, you have to claim and defend yourself.

@mod: XScorpion isn't voting me anymore.

Fixed.

[Who]

L-1 and intent to hammer, time to claim:

Roleclaim: Tim from Braid, the Time Traveller

Once, I can rewind time by a night and a day. Anyone who died then will be revived. I can rewind time immediately after dying, but only immediately after, so if I am lynched today I'll rewind to the beginning of day one and be conftown (I flip town then revive), but we'll only have me, if I rewinded after a towny was lynched and a towny died we would have 2 conftownies+Me being probtown from role. And flips do reveal alignment, this role seemed rather awesome so I checked pre-game.

Also:
VOTE: TierShift
1. His logic is actually sound despite it's scum-seemingness, and it says I should vote him.
2. That last post gut-pinged me.
3. The previous post of his which I called "superficially scummy" was, BRO's analysis of it though seems sound and makes it much more scummy.

@Zoya
It's Who's, and if you ever say it "Whose" when I will refer to your stuff as "Zoyase".

[Desperado]

@ TV: Trine said I wasn't "Putting as much into this game as I could" which is accurate, but is not the same as being disengaged. I've been in the middle of pretty much every major event in the game, which is why your comment rubbed me the wrong way.

[Desperado]

Yeah, we're lynching Tier.

[BROseidon]

Protective PR on Who over me. His role is more valuable than mine and he can just revive me.

[Turkish Van]

@ TV: Trine said I wasn't "Putting as much into this game as I could" which is accurate, but is not the same as being disengaged. I've been in the middle of pretty much every major event in the game, which is why your comment rubbed me the wrong way.

Got it. That makes more sense.

UNVOTE: Who

I'm not totally convinced that this isn't scum trying to eke out another day to get some advantage, but if he keeps acting shady we can revisit the lynch another day and not waste the obvious benefits if he's town.

I'd like to hear from MME before moving our vote elsewhere.

--PA

[TierShift]

UNVOTE: Who

That is one SICK role. I suppose you can also use it when NK'd?
I just can't believe that we're basically playing the game with 2 conftowns...
I'd be totally fine with getting lynched now.

If you refuse to rewind time tomorrow after lynching a townie+a townie getting nightkilled you should be lynched whatever happens.

I realize that if I don't get cleared by rewinding time I will probably be lynched the next day. Still, I'm gonna push for an Eek lynch, lynching possible scum is still better than lynching town.
VOTE: Eek

The previous player in your spot didn't do anything

not

scummy and you have just been lurking. Wanna share your thoughts about the game?

[Trine]

2 conftowns

Excuse me?

[TierShift]

townie gets lynched, Who gets NK'd-->Who reverts time and 2 conftowns
scum gets lynched, who gets nk'd-->no 2 conftowns but even better scenario

[TierShift]

It would be even more dangerous for scum to keep him alive as later in the game there is too little time to kill the conftowns.
Or he is lying but then he gets lynched day 2.

[Trine]

Who is not town!

Let me spell it out for you guys: That ability is way too powerful and game breaking for a game of this size, especially since

roles were determined before alignment

and this role is predicated on the user being town. Let's not forget that there are better ways to create a role centered around Who's character. For instance, and this one is just off the top of my head, resetting the day phase, deadline and all. No alignments are revealed, it's not game breaking, and it's perfect as either alignment. Furthermore, and I can't stress this enough,

there is no way town would claim this role at this point, especially with the way he claims the time travel mechanic works

. Who as town would be better off letting himself get lynched, having his role and alignment revealed, claiming after the reset happens, and then basking in the conf. town glory. And if you think that scum would kill him if he had that role, think again. Would scum really kill someone who could create 2 conf. town upon death? No freaking way! It's too convenient. It's too overpowered. And most of all,

there is absolutely no reason to claim, especially to escape a lynch

. This is a survival tactic, plain and simple. And there's only one alignment that wants to survive that much.

-Amadeus

[TierShift]

Apart from the game-breaking-ness, your post is wrong.

Current Status: Alignments have randomly been determined. Roles are now being created and should be done sometime on the 27th.

Who would definitely claim at this point, if he were lynched there'd be 1 conftown if another townie is lynched there'd be 2 tomorrow.

What is the concensus of the others about the possibility of this role passing balance tests?
Maybe there is a mafia roleblocker?

[Trine]

How could his role get roleblocked? It sounds like it'd be unstoppable to me. Again, I don't think such a role exists in this game, and even if it did, it's not a deterrent to lynching him. And there's definitely not going to be 2 conf. town, since no scum in their right mind would allow that to happen. It's a convenient claim. That's all it is.

-Amadeus

[Who]

1. 2 conftowns+1 probtown>1 conftown. Me being lynched=1 conftown. Me rewinding at the start of tomorrow when we lynch town today and town dies overnight=2 conftowns. Me not claiming=lynch, given how I was at L-1 with intent to hammer.
2. Being conftown is really boring, and in most of the games where I am conftown I end up lurking so much I get replaced.
3. In regards to scum killing me, I create two conftowns tomorrow if we lynch town today and someone dies, it doesn't matter if it's me.
Why would I not claim in this situation?

Also, where does it say roles were created before alignments? Because I agree, this does seem way too powerful to leave up to chance as to which side gets it. Usually alignments come before roles in a UPick, do they not?

Thanks TS.

Trine, what is the mafia going to do, not kill unless we lynch scum?

[BROseidon]

We just PL who tomorrow.

Problem solved

[Turkish Van]

Trine/Amadeus has a point about scum not killing Who if it resulted in back-to-back dead townies. Which means that getting a conf-town Who today is likely a better deal than what we'd get down the line, even if he would find it boring to play.

The role also implies no way for more than one death per night, as that could bring back three players and would totally strain . And with BRO's more believable weak visitor claim, it's less feasible.

I want to get Mala's thoughts before proceeding.

Also, TierShift being fine with being lynched after Who's claim looks bad too. Again, most likely not both scum, but scum-TS could be trying to minimize the damage of his faction killing Who if he believes the claim. Less feasible given the likely size of a scum faction in a Micro, but Who's role, if town, could imply a > 2p Mafia group as well.

--PA

[TierShift]

Trine as Who stated his roleclaim he can revert time at any time of his choice; that means even when not killed he can revert time.

Inb4 who is a jester.

P-edit: broseidon that's what I said. There simply is no excuse for not turning back time tonight.

P-edit 2: TV I think a killed scum+a killed townie>2 conftown and no kills. Don't you agree?

[Who]

Trine/Amadeus has a point about scum not killing Who if it resulted in back-to-back dead townies. Which means that getting a conf-town Who today is likely a better deal than what we'd get down the line, even if he would find it boring to play.

The role also implies no way for more than one death per night, as that could bring back three players and would totally strain . And with BRO's more believable weak visitor claim, it's less feasible.

I want to get Mala's thoughts before proceeding.

Also, TierShift being fine with being lynched after Who's claim looks bad too. Again, most likely not both scum, but scum-TS could be trying to minimize the damage of his faction killing Who if he believes the claim. Less feasible given the likely size of a scum faction in a Micro, but Who's role, if town, could imply a > 2p Mafia group as well.

--PA

If scum don't kill we could get a conftown someone else and probtown me, or I could save my role for when they do kill, also we get a conftown from BRO. Also, the wording of my role PM implies the possibility for more than one death per night.

About TS, I would say that his willingness to be lynched looks Towny but a bit too quick to trust (From his perspective I might be scum postponing my lynch by a day) and could be a traitor. The possibility of one traitor+2scum is present given my role, and the traitor, if they exist, would want to sacrfice themselves to prevent two conftowns.

[My Milked Eek]

Yo guys, while I'm typing up my post, I got some funny scenarios for everyone:

9 players.
1 claims to be a time manipulator role.
1 claims a weak visitor (which dies when he targets scum?)

======

D1 we lynch town.
N1 town is killed.
N1 visitor visits town.
D2 reset happens.

=> 9 players, 2 confirmed townies. 3 probtowns (time master, visitor, visited).

Would you really, really consider any game that could have 5 conf/probtowns out of 9 players on, basically, D1 balanced?


Imagine even a better scenario:
D1 town lynch
N1 town nk
N1 visitor visits scum and dies
D2 reset

=> 9 players. 3 conftown (lynchee, nk, visitor). 1 probtown (time master). 1 confscum (visited).

So we're back to D1 with a confirmed scum? One nightkill later and we're at 7 players, of which 3 are conf/probtown.


Tell me again why you believe one claim but not the other. Especially why you believe Who's claim. It makes no sense at all. One of [Who | Bro] is scum. No doubt about that.

[My Milked Eek]

"Tell me again why you believe one claim but not the other"

Should have been

"Tell me again why you believe both claims?"