Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[Desperado]

This isn't what Eek did the last time he was L-1 but it still feels town

Not claiming is anti-town and even that part is net-townie for me

Not rereading because "no one is going to reread me after I flip" is town

Vote Count 1.09b

My Milked Eek (3) - BROseidon, Turkish Van, XScorpion
Trine (2) - Grimgroove, TierShift
TierShift (1) - Desperado
XScorpion (1) - My Milked Eek
Turkish Van (1) - Trine

Not Voting (1) - Who

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 28th, 7 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-28 19:00:00)

[Desperado]

What do you want from me? You towntold and I want Tier dead more than I want you dead.

[TierShift]

@Desp: Great.
Why is it necessarily me or Eek?

[Desperado]

I'm not voting Scorp and I want Trine to stick around.

[Trine]

You were at L-2.

Also, Happy Scumday!

[Desperado]

No, it was L-1. Bro-TV-Scorp-Des.

[Trine]

Ah, you're right.

Why do you think Tier is scum?

[Desperado]

I wanted to lynch him before Who claimed and pretty much everything he's done since then has been off-center.

[My Milked Eek]

@Desp
The situation is entirely different. In that other L-1 instance I hadn't provided any content yet and I felt I could swing it around. It doesn't matter here. I provided insights and comments. Defended myself. I've done what I could. It's no use going at it for another few RL days when I'm almost certain I can't change people's minds. Even if I make it to D2, I'm a liability.

Claiming has no use. In fact, I would get extra lynched by claiming. My character is so ridiculous that I assume whoever picked this game wanted to be scum. And if I assume what the mod isn't willing to tell me, then my role isn't as helpful as I thought it was. Might lose us the game even.


What I want from you... I gave up on this game with that post. Or at least on defending myself or on the players. But this close to a lynch and considering everyone's perception of me at this point, I lost my motivation. I spent quite a few pages defending a mistake. I tried convincing everyone else of scorpscum, I'm the only one on him. What I've done is useless, what I could do to prevent a lynch is useless. Ironically, being useless and admitting it is what put you off my wagon. Even my role might be counterproductive, it might even lose us the game as it would lead to a series of mislynches, amongst which: mine. Claiming it makes no sense.

The only reason I don't want to get lynched is because the case against me is so fucking weak. "you voted who" and then scorp made an addendum "you voted me". There is nothing to be gained from my lynch. No information. No distancing between scum buddies. No town tells. Nothing. Even in death I'd be useless. I flip town and then what? "yeeeeaaaaaahhh, but he did vote who like an ass". Everyone on my wagon has the perfect excuse for not playing this game. Everyone on Trine has an excuse for not playing this game. Because that's what everyone is doing right now: not playing this game. That's the only thing that's bothering me about my lynch.

I just hope my flip will prevent anyone from pushing this weak "you lynched who" case on Trine on D2. Why not Tier as well? Because Trine and myself are aligning pretty well on this Who lynch. And I know that isn't indicative of alignment, but he's saying what I'm saying and thinking, while Tier feels like a puppy at this point. Following desp around. Following me and trine around.

And yes, I know I called him a newbtown earlier.
Do note that I haven't read the past few pages in detail.

[TierShift]

Hey, if you don't want to play anymore, replace out. Stop doing this 'I'm useless'-thing

I think you are town and that scorp is scum, fwiw.

[My Milked Eek]

I'm not replacing out. I'm not putting someone else in this position.
And I'm still interested in this game, I'm just not interested in defending myself anymore.

[My Milked Eek]

Why are you voting Trine then?

[Desperado]

XS, I have voiced my doubts over desp and bro being town. I'm having a null read on hermy, trine and who, so they could be scum in my book. The rest I see as town.

P-edit: yeah ofc, but reading=/=interacting

Well I don't have a certain scumread atm, so that's why I'm not voting. I'd like to lynch desp, but I haven't been able to point out exactly why. I'm also on the fence about Who, whose explanations baffle me. Not as in I think they're super scummy, but as in I have no idea what he's saying.

Who, what do you mean with forced activity? And how was the unvote a reaction test for hermy?

Someone asked for a reason why Who shouldn't be lynched. I was making it clear that I had no such reasons (and, thus, wouldn't object to lynching him).

What in any of that is sheeping?

My wording is bad. Trying to say: you are agreeing with a who lynch without being tracable. It's not much of a tell, but I don't really understand the purpose of the post, I don't think Trine wanted everyone to answer 'no, I don't object', without putting in further reasoning.

@Who thanks for telling me that hermy thing, hadn't realized that before, omg that is scummy like how did I even not see that. XS, now I have someone to vote for, a replacement being pressured from the get-go is something I like.
VOTE: hermy

@Who thanks for telling me that hermy thing, hadn't realized that before,

omg that is scummy like how did I even not see that.

XS, now I have someone to vote for, a replacement being pressured from the get-go is something I like.
VOTE: hermy

Thanks TierShift for pointing this out.

This is what was making me not like TierShift. The bolded is overemphasis; Tiershift really wants us to know that he didn't see what Who pointed out and that he's sorry for it.

VOTE: TierShift

Yes, I do really want you to know I feel sorry. I shouldn't be discovering things that happened the first pages, while having already been in the game for 10 pages and outing my opinions and suspicions, should I?

I don't like TierShift's recent posts but I'm very afraid that they're noobtown.

My sentiments exactly. I'd be willing to make a fair wager that Tier is just scum though.
Tier, what do you think of Who?
Who, what do you think of Tier?

I think who's start was pretty weak (with the desp thingy) but from there the logic on the hermy scumread was pretty sound. I like his 382, even though he is setting himself up for an easy me vote tomorrow, he sounds genuine and as a slightly paranoid town.

This was Tier's pre-Who claim trajectory. Starts null, leans scummy as Who avoids some questions aimed at him, and then swings back to leaning town after his responses.

Stating intent to hammer

I'm going with the logic d1 lynch>d1 no lynch and nullread lynch>town lynch.


Who, I will hammer at

2 hours before deadline

. Until then, you have to claim and defend yourself.

@mod: XScorpion isn't voting me anymore.

Fixed.

Wait, what? Tier sheeps Who on Hermy, leans him town for paranoia, and then pushes him back to null to justify his intent to hammer.

UNVOTE: Who

That is one SICK role. I suppose you can also use it when NK'd?
I just can't believe that we're basically playing the game with 2 conftowns...
I'd be totally fine with getting lynched now.

If you refuse to rewind time tomorrow after lynching a townie+a townie getting nightkilled you should be lynched whatever happens.

I realize that if I don't get cleared by rewinding time I will probably be lynched the next day.

Still, I'm gonna push for an Eek lynch, lynching possible scum is still better than lynching town.
VOTE: Eek

The previous player in your spot didn't do anything

not

scummy and you have just been lurking. Wanna share your thoughts about the game?

Keep this in mind for later. And the bold is just

It would be even more dangerous for scum to keep him alive as later in the game there is too little time to kill the conftowns.
Or he is lying but then he gets lynched day 2.

Exactly. Tier understood that lynching Who D1 is good for scum because lynching Who D2 is guaranteed to be worse.

Apart from the game-breaking-ness, your post is wrong.

Current Status: Alignments have randomly been determined. Roles are now being created and should be done sometime on the 27th.

Who would definitely claim at this point, if he were lynched there'd be 1 conftown if another townie is lynched there'd be 2 tomorrow.

What is the concensus of the others about the possibility of this role passing balance tests?
Maybe there is a mafia roleblocker?

Only now does the notion of balance show up in Tier's throught process, after Trine suggests that Who's role is not balanced. Where is Tier's opinion on this? Nowhere to be found. He's testing the waters to see if he can lynch Who after all.

Trine as Who stated his roleclaim he can revert time at any time of his choice; that means even when not killed he can revert time.

Inb4 who is a jester.

P-edit: broseidon that's what I said. There simply is no excuse for not turning back time tonight.

P-edit 2: TV I think a killed scum+a killed townie>2 conftown and no kills. Don't you agree?

dat jester tell

tier
- his entry is hilarious (page 8). He's caught up and we should notify him of anything he has missed. Yet he only comments on a post broseidon made on page 2. He puts him at L-1 not even reading the thread. I don't care, if you don't see the votecount 7-10 posts above yours and if you can't add the vote in the post above yours, you're not reading the thread. I'm getting mixed signals from his newbie replacement claim onwards. @Tier: would you have any objections to be being lynched today considering you believe Who's claim?

I was saying that I didn't mind dying for the good cause, since we would have a confscum d2.

But I changed my mind.

If scum don't kill we could get a conftown someone else and probtown me, or I could save my role for when they do kill, also we get a conftown from BRO. Also, the wording of my role PM implies the possibility for more than one death per night.

About TS, I would say that his willingness to be lynched looks Towny but a bit too quick to trust (From his perspective I might be scum postponing my lynch by a day) and could be a traitor. The possibility of one traitor+2scum is present given my role, and the traitor, if they exist, would want to sacrfice themselves to prevent two conftowns.

I don't think at all that my willingness to be lynched looks townie. The way you are trying to paint me black thereafter is horrific.

There is a very important detail that you forgot to mention about your role. You would need to be told at the end of the night who is killed by pm, otherwise all your posts don't make sense. I see no way how you could forget to include that.

Does anyone have ANY idea how this role could possibly be balanced out in a 9p game?

INTENT TO HAMMER

Eek support's Trine's "Who's role isn't balanced!" and Tier is just eating it up.

@Eek: in my mind, voting for a player and wanting to hammer said player feel similar.

Has anyone read any of Alduskkel's previous games? Here are the roles from a

marathon

I replaced into (I replaced Majiffy):
Alduskkel's Arboreal UPick - Game Over!

Spoiler: Roles

1. Majiffy - Root - Mafia Traitor & Roleblocker
2. zabriel - Ironwood - BP
3. GuyInFreezer - Saigyou Ayakasi - 1-Shot PGO
4. Kid A - Bonsai - Tree Cop
5. Lucky2u - Dryad - Tree Protector
6. Severe Dirt Trip - Ash - Informed Tree
7. killerjester - Tree of Heaven - Ascetic Tree
8. Cephrir - Kalpavriksha - Wish Giver
9. Marquis - Demeter, Goddess of the Harvest - Vote Giver
10. Nero - Sad Molesting Tree - Vanilla Townie

Majiffy, you are a root. You're also a Mafia Traitor/Roleblocker! Cephrir and killerjester are in the Mafia, but they don't know that you're on their side.
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability:
If you are ever killed (treestumped), you will gain the ability to roleblock another player each night.

Zabriel, you are Ironwood.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
You can't be killed at Night.

GuyInFreezer, you are Saigyou Ayakasi, a deadly tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Once in the game, at Night, you can choose to blossom and kill anyone who targets you.

Kid A, you are a Bonsai.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability: Each Night, you can target someone and learn if they are a tree or part of a tree. This isn't necessarily indicative of alignment.

Lucky2u, you are a Dryad.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Each Night, you can target someone, and if they are a fully grown tree then you will protect them.

killerjester, you are a Tree of Heaven and a member of the Arboreal Mafia with Cephrir. Talk to him here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/sseWPbHWDtSuv
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability: You're a stinky tree, so people don't like to target you. You're immune to all non-killing actions.

Cephrir, you are Kalpavriksha. You are also a member of the Mafia with killerjester. Talk to him here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/sseWPbHWDtSuv
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability:
Each Night, you can offer a player a 1-shot daykill in exchange for their vote. They have the option to accept or not accept. You keep the vote permanently.

Marquis, you are Demeter.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Each Night you can grant a player an extra vote the next day. They keep the vote permanently. You can't target yourself.

Severe Dirt Trip, you are an Ash Tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
You know that there are two explicitly not-tree entities in this game. That is, they are not a tree or even part of a tree.

Nero, you are a Sad Molesting Tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Everyone hates you, including me. You're the only Vanilla Townie in the game. But at least you know you're the only one. That's something, right? Hahahaha, don't molest me.

He is not afraid of including strange and

seemingly really-powerful roles

in his games, and that game had 3 scum out of 10 people, this one easily could.

Ok so that was a marathon game (hint: they are often fucked up) without any OP roles as in the whole game centers around the role.

You're making up excuses.

Tier probably didn't even read the information Who provided, which completely negated everything he and Trine and Eek had been pushing up to that point--Alduskkel's games are known for their role madness, and he specifically namedropped the marathon games as potential baselines for the roles in this one.

Lol trine I keep forgetting that, it's just so ridiculous how a role can even do that.

VOTE: who

TURN YOUR RESURRECTING HOURGLASS NOW, PLEASE

The coup de grace.

BRO you must be right. There absolutely need to be 2 scum on that wagon.

Does this make bro scum, or am I missing something?

This post gives me the chills, it's creepy as fuck. There is no way that scum would have wanted to not lynch who, there just is no way.

VOTE: Trine

This completely clears BRO and to a lesser extent desp and TV.

None of this makes any sense. Tier was piggybacking Trine's setup spec after he had already outlined how lynching Who D1 was good for scum.

I just can't get around that there has to be scum involved with voting who after the claim.

I just made a reference list for town. In their book, I could very well be scum.

Something is off with your post. I hope I'll be around to find out what and address it later.

The distancing language in this post is crazy blatant. Tier isn't a part of the town and he is unconsciously showing it.

@Trine: I was not happy at all with your post. That made me vote you because I wanted answers.
Now that it looks like I will be quicklynched I want town to know who I think is scum when I flip.

Here's my role:
Eavesdropper, I get a random QT message pasted by the mod at the end of each night with the names blanked out.
Character name is John Rook and I believe that my game was called 'don't take it personally, babe, it just aint your story'.

Once again, this role is totally made up. None of the games Alduskkel linked in the queue contained any roles that interacted with Quicktopics, and the power itself is so useless and easily fakable that it just isn't real.

As eek was to kindly point out, I didn't technically unvote.

As for the reasoning behind the voting:
First everyone was buying the claim and I wasn't too sure on it. I found it to be a very OP role, but if it were true, a who lynch would be very undesirable.
I was looking solely at numbers and I was like:
1. If I get lynched today and who didn't lie, we will have 2 conftown tomorrow.
2. If I get lynched and who did lie, we have a who lynch d2.

Both situations are desirable (as in better than average). So I thought: let's get my ass lynched.

Then, as I read Trine's and Eek's arguments, I went back and revisited my old feelings that the claim could be untrue.

I realized that hammering scum d1 would definitely be better than being mislynched. It would also clear a lot of the suspicion on me. But I had to be sure that who was scum.

I reread. From who's posts I could tell he hadn't thought too much about his role, he said he was going to create 2 conftown+himself probtown. No way scum would kill another player than who after that claim, they're not gonna create extra probtowns when they can get away with only 2 conftowns.
His play didn't add up either nor his claim, he should have played in a way that would get him NK'D. if you really had such a role you could make up a claim that would get you through the day unlynched but baiting the NK or something that gets policy lynched D2.

All in all, it just seemed like who didn't put too much time in overthinking the role and certainly didn't play from the start with the role in mind.

Next to that, I found the role itself absolutely absurd. It's OP, incredibly swingy and hardly balancable.

This is all bullshit. Tier's immediate reaction to Who's claim didn't show any signs of doubt. He only "found the role itself absolutely absurd" after he had been spoonfed the arguments for why by Trine and Eek. And his saying this confirms that he didn't read any of Alduskkel's roles from other games.

tl;dr - Tier had Who leaning town until he needed a justification for hammering him, so he went back to null for a deadline compromise.

His reaction to Who's claim and his later recollections don't match and make himself look better. He understood that lynching Who today was objectively worse for the town than lynching him tomorrow and he went and did it anyway, on the shoulders of others. And his posts are littered with bits of self-awareness that feel put on and distancing language that implicitly suggest he is apart from the town.

[TierShift]

@Eek:

It's funny.
I don't say Bro's plan was wrong (it obviously is the best here) but I wanted to prevent a mislynch.
Eek said he made a mistake
Trine has just been rambling all sorts of mumbo-jumbo in his last posts that is obviously incorrect.

Trine, town is stupid, yes, but we're not morons and we can deduce stuff after a who NK+rewind. You are trying to clear yourself by saying scum wouldn't push for a such wagon while they obviously should if they don't want up to 3 conftown. (Hint: they don't)
I originally thought that 440 came from town that didn't think long enough, but now I think it might be full of deliberate lies by scum.
I'm amazed at how you can say stuff that is untrue while there's 3 of you.
I'd like to know if zoya and pontius all think the same as amadeus.

A scorp lynch isn't happening today, so:
UNVOTE: scorp
VOTE: trine

@Desp: i'm just gonna respond to your tl;dr because tl;dr. If there is something you really want me to go in-depth with, tell me.

I never townread who, I said his L382 sounded like paranoid town. If you look at the first part of the post in which I said that, you see that I also pointed out scummy things about him.

Then, I explained how the role worked to Trine, without thinking too much about if the claim was fake. I just hadn't thought too much about it, then Trine and Eek came in and say the role is game-breaking. Then I thought about it and formed an opinion (that who was scum). I don't agree that the other games had roles even remotely close to the gamebreakingness of who's role, as I said earlier.

I don't see distancing language.

And about the role being fake...how can I help the role that the mod send me being unverifiable? :/

[Desperado]

I never townread who, I said his L382 sounded like paranoid town. If you look at the first part of the post in which I said that, you see that I also pointed out scummy things about him.

Then, I explained how the role worked to Trine, without thinking too much about if the claim was fake. I just hadn't thought too much about it, then Trine and Eek came in and say the role is game-breaking. Then I thought about it and formed an opinion (that who was scum). I don't agree that the other games had roles even remotely close to the gamebreakingness of who's role, as I said earlier.

I don't see distancing language.

And about the role being fake...how can I help the role that the mod send me being unverifiable? :/

You never said "Who is town" but you sheeped his scumread and then pointed out something that was town. Where are the scummy things in this post?

@Who thanks for telling me that hermy thing, hadn't realized that before,

omg that is scummy like how did I even not see that.

XS, now I have someone to vote for, a replacement being pressured from the get-go is something I like.
VOTE: hermy

Thanks TierShift for pointing this out.

This is what was making me not like TierShift. The bolded is overemphasis; Tiershift really wants us to know that he didn't see what Who pointed out and that he's sorry for it.

VOTE: TierShift

Yes, I do really want you to know I feel sorry. I shouldn't be discovering things that happened the first pages, while having already been in the game for 10 pages and outing my opinions and suspicions, should I?

I don't like TierShift's recent posts but I'm very afraid that they're noobtown.

My sentiments exactly. I'd be willing to make a fair wager that Tier is just scum though.
Tier, what do you think of Who?
Who, what do you think of Tier?

I think who's start was pretty weak (with the desp thingy) but from there the logic on the hermy scumread was pretty sound. I like his 382, even though he is setting himself up for an easy me vote tomorrow, he sounds genuine and as a slightly paranoid town.

I bolded the distancing language.

And the role isn't fake because it's unverifiable. It's fake because none of the games Alduskkel linked contained a role that interacted with a quicktopic AND the ability itself has no utility.

[TierShift]

I said that the first posts by him were weak and that I didn't like the voting/unvoting you. I believe I have also said somewhere that I didn't like his lurking, not sure on that.

Not seeing how that is distancing still.

You say alduskkel never included a QT-esque role before, tell me where alduskkel included a time-reversing role.
Here I quote who:
"He is not afraid of including strange and seemingly really-powerful roles in his games"
This something that you found true enough to quote, so I don't see how that doesn't work for me too.

[Desperado]

Because your role is fucking useless.

And "interacting with QTs" is a much broader subcategory than "time reversal."

[TierShift]

Okay lemme widen the category of time reversal to sickly OP roles.

[Trine]

Tier why do you think random quotes from QTs are OP?

[TierShift]

I didn't say that. Who's role is in that category.

[Who]

VOTE: TierShift

I think he's the most likely to be scum.

[Turkish Van]

With Grimgroove's slot absent and BRO on V/LA and Trine quite determined that their logic is the only possible town logic, I guess hammer intent falls to us.

Desperado's case is good, and bottom line is I can't buy scum wouldn't have wanted to eliminate the chance of Who's power being legit ASAP.

MME flat-out refusing to claim is awful, but at least it locks him in somewhat.

I want to get Mala's take, but consider this this head's intent to hammer within 12 hours.

--PA

[TierShift]

Hammer dat L-2.

[Trine]

With Grimgroove's slot absent and BRO on V/LA

and Trine quite determined that their logic is the only possible town logic

, I guess hammer intent falls to us.

Desperado's case is good, and bottom line is I can't buy scum wouldn't have wanted to eliminate the chance of Who's power being legit ASAP.

MME flat-out refusing to claim is awful, but at least it locks him in somewhat.

I want to get Mala's take, but consider this this head's intent to hammer within 12 hours.

--PA

This post is quite terrible. We have not intimated that our logic is the only possible town logic, else we would be scumreading Desperado and Grimgroove. We are not.

I'm considering Desp's case on Tier, but will want to discuss with my compatriots.

I would strongly prefer that you not put a 12 hour timer on your hammer-vote.

I note with interest though, that you're apparently townreading us per the bolded.

[Trine]

The above is ~ Zoya