NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[emeraldemon]

"Looks like it's either A and B getting lynched today, I think either of them might be scum, so I'll hop on one of them."

This is scummy because

1) This effectively shakes off any accountability you have in the case of a townflip since your wording deliberately implies you think that they are the only lynch candidates for today.
2) Lining up for future lynches in the case of a townflip
3) Not attempting to refine your reads on the person you are voting, complacent to just see a lynch go through, whether or not the lynch will benefit town

1) I did think they were the only lynch candidates for today. It was before the replace out and deadline extension; we had about 2 days (which we have now again think).
2) Not really sure what you mean.
3) I feel like my questions have been productive for me at least

So let me ask you, who do you think are the possible lynch candidates for today?

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.18

Slandaar (7) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias
Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
emeraldemon (4) - inHimshallibe, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz
emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom
Matias (1) - Nobody Special

Not voting (0) -

With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One has been extended due to the replacements and is now Wednesday, 5th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-05 20:00:00)).

[yessiree]

"Looks like it's either A and B getting lynched today, I think either of them might be scum, so I'll hop on one of them."

This is scummy because

1) This effectively shakes off any accountability you have in the case of a townflip since your wording deliberately implies you think that they are the only lynch candidates for today.
2) Lining up for future lynches in the case of a townflip
3) Not attempting to refine your reads on the person you are voting, complacent to just see a lynch go through, whether or not the lynch will benefit town

1) I did think they were the only lynch candidates for today. It was before the replace out and deadline extension; we had about 2 days (which we have now again think).

which "effectively shakes off any accountability you have in the case of a townflip since your wording deliberately implies you think that they are the only lynch candidates for today."

It doesn't matter if there was any replacement or not, your vote still looked shameless because you did not provide enough reasoning.

In other words, you voted not because you're convinced the person you voted is the most scummy, but because you're complacent to see a lynch go through, and you're trying to deny responsibility by choosing 1 out of 2.

2) Not really sure what you mean.

"either both of them might be scum, not sure."

In other words, in case of one flipping town, you have the excuse to vote his counterpart.

3) I feel like my questions have been productive for me at least

Give me quotes where you interacted with Brain Skies. I don't give a shit if your questions have worked for you on OTHER players. Brain is the one you're voting now and he is the one you need to ask questions to.

So let me ask you, who do you think are the possible lynch candidates for today?

You are the most scummy in my book.
Slandaar is the runner-up.
Acidic_TACO was scummy but his replacement, Matias, is a good town player.
Chevre is being a lazy derp and he will be my compromise lynch today

[Aegor]

yessiree writes good posts.

[Zekrom25]

un-vote
Vote Slandaar

for reasons given

[The Fonz]

Why not? define: best lynch

Person most likely in my mind to be scum. This really is an infuriating line of questioning.

well, sorry for trying to figure out why

I'm sorry, but I've already told you I'm finding him hard to read. This necessarily means he appears less scummy to me than people I am managing to get a read on, for whom that read is 'scum.' Badgering me on this point is hugely unproductive and annoying.

I don't think choosing between the leading wagons is scummy, though.

[Zekrom25]

EBWOP: i posted fast in post # 904

un-vote
vote Chevre

i'll keep the vote where it was before post # 904

[Aegor]

Care to explain?

[emeraldemon]

Where is the Slandaar vote coming from?

He likes to throw fake towntells in the thread.

There's also some prejudice involved.

OK so I am anti-town for talking with you and Fonz instead of staying on Brian. Fair enough.

Hey Brian, I find your fake towntells unconvincing. Is Slandaar still scum?

[yessiree]

Where is the Slandaar vote coming from?

He likes to throw fake towntells in the thread.

There's also some prejudice involved.

OK so I am anti-town for talking with you and Fonz instead of staying on Brian. Fair enough.

Hey Brian, I find your fake towntells unconvincing. Is Slandaar still scum?

If you had reasons (i.e. found his fake towntells unconvincing), why didn't you specify that in the same post where you voted him?

[emeraldemon]

If you had reasons (i.e. found his fake towntells unconvincing), why didn't you specify that in the same post where you voted him?

I did!

Well time is short and it looks like it's either gonna be slandaar or brian skies. I could see either as scum honestly but I think I will

VOTE: Brian Skies

I'm pretty sure 101 was sarcasm, and the "important investigations" was probably just BSing, not trying to fake a breadcrum. So... that doesn't leave much.

101 was sarcasm = fake towntell #1. "important investigations" = fake towntell #2. Maybe it wasn't clear?

[Chevre]

I think I'd rather have Brian Skies' catch up posts all in one post, that way it is all consolidated on one page to sift through in that context, rather than sporadically throughout the thread.

Slandaar's reactions to Brian on page 31 up my scum read. To my gut, it feels like the wagon on him makes him think he's been caught and now he's being all sultry. Plus in 777 he switches his vote to Brian, just after responding to Brian's comment about leaving his vote on low-hanging fruit (in this case, The Goodfather, replaced by inHimshallibe).

emogirl, 821: the stuff on Maestro is still relevant even if he's no longer playing. Care to share?

The Fonz: I still do think that several comments she made, as said in my wall, were off about emogirl, so that explains my suspicions and my vote. Ultimately, I have decided she is incredibly difficult to read and I can't say with any amount of great confidence that she is forming sentences that way because she is scum or because she is town.

Also, Slandaar's jab at The Fonz that me and him are "low-hanging fruit" is disingenuine. Like I said with emeraldemon, the momentum has gone away from me, so I somewhat paradoxically say that anyone pursuing my lynch is scum. Slandaar, however, is oblivious to his own distinct switch in attitude since he started to aggregate suspicion. I think there is a difference of definition here because you've said you're low-hanging fruit due to your amount of votes; I think just the contrary, "low-hanging fruit" is someone who probably doesn't have a lot of suspicion but it would be incredibly easy to make a case on.

[yessiree]

@emeraldemon,

yeah it wasn't meant to be clear to any other reader other than yourself

but I guess the vote is fair


VOTE: Slandaar

[Bulbazak]

I'm some pages behind being fully read up but just skimming is enough to see that Yessiree dies tomorrow if Slandaar flips scum, and Slandaar is going to flip scum.

Explain.

Lurkers and newer players are low hanging fruit

This is Brians definition.

Therefore his ONLY scumread from his POV;
#1 is low hanging fruit
#2 he holds a grudge against

Obviously he is scum. You can't make the argument he did with his reads.

Definitions tend to be separate from actual reads. Sometimes it seems hypocritical, but it's not scummy. Is that all you've got, or do you have some more misreps to spout?

I like Aegor's #887.

Emerald is a harder lynch.

Actually, given the way the votes piled on him, I'd say he's the easier lynch. Besides, the kind of conclusion you're trying to lead the town to is generally false. How quickly, or how easy, it is to build a wagon has nothing to do with the wagoned player's alignment.

[Slandaar]

I think there is a difference of definition here because you've said you're low-hanging fruit due to your amount of votes; I think just the contrary, "low-hanging fruit" is someone who probably doesn't have a lot of suspicion but it would be incredibly easy to make a case on.

No, that isn't what I said.

What happens when you make the case and they get votes/suspicion? they are not low hanging fruit anymore?



You are scum aren't you.

Is that all you've got, or do you have some more misreps to spout?

Yes actually check a few pages ago.

I didn't misrep him he said low hanging fruit are lurkers; I was lurking ergo I am low hanging fruit and he is being mosntrously hypocritical.

Perhaps you can point the misrep out?



Too many scum. Luckily I killed myself so don't need to figure it out, I knew voting Emerald would do that, but did it anyways because... you guessed it.

[Bulbazak]

Is that all you've got, or do you have some more misreps to spout?

Yes actually check a few pages ago.

I didn't misrep him he said low hanging fruit are lurkers; I was lurking ergo I am low hanging fruit and he is being mosntrously hypocritical.

Perhaps you can point the misrep out?

I even said in that quote that you clipped out that personal understanding of definitions and personal game theory does not always equate with personal play. Brian explained his definition, but it was obvious from his posts that he didn't put that level of thought into his vote for you. He wasn't thinking "I'm voting Slandaar for lurking, ergo I'm going after low-hanging fruit.". He was thinking "Slandaar is doing something I find scummy for whatever reason, so I'm going to vote him.". The definition he gave from a theory perspective and his actual gameplay, which may not be as logically thought out, are two very different things, which you sought to unreasonably consolidate in order to push his lynch. They were never meant to coexist at the level you are presenting them.

That

is the misrep.

[Slandaar]

Yes, yes nice waffle.

He thinks X is scummy as theory, he does X either hes scum or just really bad town.

You work it out.

[Bulbazak]

He thinks X is done in theory. He doesn't realize he's doing X.

Conclusion: Town.

Player takes advantage of attacker doing X. Player misreps attacker at every turn during their back and forth. Player keeps on getting bested in arguments, so he cuts it off as an attempt to appear town.

Conclusion: Scum.

[Chevre]

If you make a case on low-hanging fruit, town is going to point out what you're doing and either not vote and/or suspect you.

If suspicion and votes are gained after you make your case, that's not low-hanging fruit. That's a true suspect.

[Slandaar]

He thinks X is done in theory. He doesn't realize he's doing X.

Conclusion: Town.

So, they DO coexist on the same level then.

Where is the misrep?

Why if he is scum did he have to know what he is doing? You can't catch scum using something they didn't know about?

If you make a case on low-hanging fruit, town is going to point out what you're doing and either not vote and/or suspect you.

If suspicion and votes are gained after you make your case, that's not low-hanging fruit. That's a true suspect.

lol

So, low hanging fruit can't be scum? You can't make cases on them without being suspected? then they are not easy to make cases on are they?

Hilarious.

[Brian Skies]

I'm right here Slandaar, going to watch you and your scum team burn.

And here I thought I was the only person with prejudice here.

I was genuinely pissed at Brain Skies, yes I admit it was forced, faked, etc. That's because I had to force myself not to use too many "fuck" and "shit"

Pissed off about what?

I find it funny how this emer wagon is building momentum between abr and slaandars crossfire.

I'm actually rather annoyed there's three wagons to begin with.

No, and especially not with the sweet sweet emeraldemon wagon growing.

Why do people want to lynch that guy?

but emeraldemon is

infinitely better than Brian

and still preferable to Slandaar.

Because...?

Unvote

I was wrong.

Vote: Slandaar

This fight with ABR followed by them both voting the same person is a pretty wicked relational tell, so probably they are both flipping scum.

I just...hmmm...

1)Right, here's the thing, my views aren't fixed. When new evidence comes along, I re-evaluate things. The Emogirl and Chevre wagons, to me, seemed utterly opposed to one another - the Chevre wagon was largely put together of people who hated the emogirl wagon but weren't, until that point, able to coalesce on one wagon. Supporting both wagons when they seem based on opposite readings of the gamestate felt dissonant and therefore scummy. When someone jumps on a wagon, even one you like, at a point and with and explanation (or lack thereof) that seems like scum piling on a mislynch, you reconsider the wagon. I pressed Albert for a bit, got a response I felt was town, and this then made me comfortable rejoining the wagon.

2)On Brian Skies, his scumhunting is better than he's getting credit for. His case against Slandaar, when made clearly, is not just that Slandaar has been voting for easy targets, but that he's voting for all the easy targets. Normally, a town player will read some of the poor players as scum, more so than the good players, but will have one or two where they feel the case is overblown and the player is trying, but bad. If you suspect all the 'low hanging fruit' then it seems, as Brian said, that you're not trying to sort through the pile. Brian's 'ten page lurk' was Thursday-Monday which seems more likely to be a 'real life intervened' break than a deliberate lurk.

3)Slandaar is trying to make the 'I'm a townie who's not that into it' case, which is a scum thing to say more often than random, but not a slamdunk. I really, really don't like his reaction to coming under fire, which feels like 'strawman your accuser as much as possible.' Slandaar is a clearly better lynch than Brian.

4)How-fuckin-ever, Chevre's not done any scumhunting since the wagon on him died. His 623 feels very reactive (and his response to why he did something he admits he doesn't think is pro-town is poor) while #715 just feels like posting for the sake of posting. I'd like people to reconsider this wagon.

5)Emerald is... unhhhh. Tough to read. Not today's lynch, I don't think.

1. Maybe. I kind of skipped that portion of the game and haven't had time to read through it thoroughly.
2. Interesting that my scum-hunting is getting complimented right now because Garmr clearly disagrees (as do I to some degree). But hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. My scum-read on Slandaar wasn't actually that strong to begin with until he kept taking jabs from the sideline calling me obvscum (it was mostly me joining a deadline wagon on somebody that caught my interest). As for my lurk, I don't really understand whether you mean Monday through Thurs or Thurs through Monday. If it's Monday through Thurs, it can be explained by the start of a new semester for me which has bogged me down cross site. If it's the other way around, it's probably me being bogged down by my game load and abusing the deadline.
3. I'm a little bit uncomfortable about Slandaar. On one hand, he makes strong points in rebuttal (especially about me being a hypocrite). But he's clearly set on OMGUSing (well, not really, as it's a mutual scum-read of each other) me and cutting off discussion when it gets to certain points.
4. I do agree that Chevre hasn't really done much since that wagon disappeared. I remember him spewing a ton of information into the thread earlier, but I haven't actually gone through it.
5. Maybe, maybe not. Still don't know why he's getting wagoned.

(2) Brian's argument seemed based pretty heavily around two fake towntells, neither of which looked like faking a towntell to me.

It was. I was more serious about the first one than the second one. The second one is just 'meh.' But there's more to it than that.

Lurkers and newer players are low hanging fruit

This is Brians definition.

Therefore his ONLY scumread from his POV;

#1 is low hanging fruit

#2 he holds a grudge against

Obviously he is scum. You can't make the argument he did with his reads.

I never attacked you for being low hanging fruit. I attacked you for attacking low hanging fruit. There

is

a difference. And there was more to it than that.

Wow. Anyone who was still voting Brian after his exchange with Slandaar a few pages back is now in my potential scumpile.

Why? If you have a sudden townread on me, why?

*There comes a time in a man's life where he questions whether or not he just created a monster.

Maybe Brian is making up stuff because he wants to grudge vote me that badly

Yes, no, and not really in both part and in combination. If it was just a grudge vote, I would never have bothered.

So let me ask you, who do you think are the possible lynch candidates for today?

Slandaar (7) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias
Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
emeraldemon (4) - inHimshallibe, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz

These ones.

Hey Brian, I find your fake towntells unconvincing. Is Slandaar still scum?

Still scummy, but extremely unsure.

[Slandaar]

It is just a grudge vote you want me to be scum everything is made up on that basis.

We could employ the 'who has replaced out of a higher % of games' strategy to lynch people, but mine is like 5% so probably going to be lynching you over me.

[Slandaar]

They were never meant to coexist at the level you are presenting them.

That

is the misrep.

He thinks X is done in theory. He doesn't realize he's doing X.

Conclusion: Town.

So, they DO coexist on the same level then.

Sometimes I feel I need to put things simpler these is one of those times;

He thinks X is done in theory. He doesn't realize he's doing X.

Conclusion:

Scum

.

So, as we can see, Bulba for some reason is suggesting I misrepped. Probably needs to explain where the misrep is quite sharpish at best he is debating my conclusion but that isn't a misrep.

Or is it? Bulbazak?

[Nobody Special]

unvote

...until I'm caught up.

[The Fonz]

NS, read fast, because I have every intention to hammer.