NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Ythan]

It doesn't even matter what you say.

/in

[Untrod Tripod]

YOUR BUDDYING OFFER HAS BEEN:

ACCEPTED

[Zekrom25]

town has to win

[Zekrom25]

@Mollie what do you enjoy ?

[Gooner]

I'm getting more and more sure that Zekrom's town the more votes hit him. That last vote from Ythan was poor.

[pisskop]

nope, i.kinda skew the other way here. but for faith. . .

[Porochaz]

Every time he fails to either answer me or mollies questions I am sure he is scum. Their is a difference between a newbie not knowing what he is doing and what zekrom is doing. A newbie not knowing what he is doing will A. ask more questions, B. Clam up and eventually replace or C. give a few non commital reads and then panic when people question them further.

What zekrom is doing is failing to engage with anyone, I mean the questions that have been asked of him are me asking for his thoughts. An oh so generic and easy question to answer in almost any way he chooses and a question by mollie asking if he had finished double checking the thing he said he was, all she wanted there was engagement. There is a complete lack of getting involved here, so much so that he is actively avoiding it. The most he has done is ask me what my point was when I quoted a post of his early on in the game, I replied and I wasn't expecting some sort of poetic response but was expecting some sort of acknowledgement.

There is also the questions he is asking, again if you are asking Player X, what are your thoughts? Then it is the start of a dialogue (or monologue!) between players. This has not happened, not even a "why didn't you answer my question?". It either suggests a total lack of interest or scum not knowing what he should be doing. Im going with the latter, as the former scenario would have either replaced out by now or would not be posting at all.

---

And whilst I am here, to answer the question I set myself the other day...

My reads and my thought process behind them...

The pereV and RC argument really doesn't interest me and it's mostly down to RC's playstyle. I'm not particularly happy with RC and the meta read I got from him, but at the same time, there are other issues here, but all this is mired in playstyle, and a vote on him would only be me partially voting someone I think is scum and partially me voting someone who could just be a VI.

Gooner is an arsenal fan so is always going to be inherently smug about everything until they lose against Liverpool and Man City overtake them. That said, despite our difference of opinion with game mechanics, I have a slight townread on him, and I can see him doing this but I would like a more firm stance on Zekrom.

Heh, so pirate mollie, I've explained to death, why I don't scumread you so much, but I am trying to differentiate your IRL play to your forum play. Because the problem is that I am seeing some similarities to your scum play here. Like your single mindedness, my aim over the past few days is to try and push you into engaging with people that hasn't anything to do with Elyse. Which is kinda what you were doing with Zekrom, almost. (but thats more his fault than yours) I mean I am not saying change your opinions, (I am, a bit) I just am not convinced you are actually properly scumhunting right now, if I was to commit to you being town then I wouldn't care where your vote is, I'd just see you with more varied conversation.

I can't legitimately vote someone who said I have the best hair... even though it was clearly a drunken lie. malakittens - I'm not happy with her defence on Zekrom, it felt way to easy just to dismiss it with "he's new". But again, more posts needed. mala how are you feeling about the things happening in this game?

ABR has pissed me off, I have seen him complete many a large game, but I've seen him replace out of far more.

EP is posting uncharacteristically little as well, also the whole vote thing is funny. Not to say he is scum, but again I need him to now make more firmer stances in his next post.

Deathnote, Elyse and GC have commited my all together unreliable town tell. UT hasn't but I have been enjoying his posts. Especially because I imagine he finishes a bottle of straight bourbon before he posts. The others I am null on or havent posted enough in the 19 pages so far. Marquis is a player that is overdue a look at, but I have been actively avoiding it, because of fear Im going to break my own nose baching my face against the keyboard...

[Porochaz]

nope, i.kinda skew the other way here. but for faith. . .

You need to place your pieces on the chessboard mate. You're playing a game, not commenting on it from the sidelines.

[pisskop]

Sigh. Soo much wtf in this game.

this isnt chess, this is more like chinese checkers, with everyone jumping over (read on) each other. It seems many here know each other, and the banter is both inside and personal; thus off limits to me. plus you know I dont think i have the scumhunting knacks the higher tier players do. not yet anyway.

zekrom is scummy. ima hammer him.if things dont imorove.
mollie is so bad i think shes good.. im actually getting the idea shes always this neurotic.
Unipod is a libertarian. i mean, hes pushing zek hard enough to make me watch him, but for now hes town.
poro, you i like for town
mala is null. a flip if scum on zek would hurt her chances in life.
elyse, ahh, actually gutreads as town. wtf guyz, how do you expect to read personal tells on a stranger?

[Porochaz]

You'll get there, your new. Your in an unfortunate position where some of the players and the mod were at a meet together, so there will be some inside jokes. That said most of us are now in the serious mode.

In regards to your question, I think you've played elsewhere? Basically the question you should be asking is would someone say that as town? I mean meta plays a part which you won't have, and to be honest, I haven't played with very many people on the forum here in this game. You can go onto the persons profile and search through previous games they have played, and see if there are any differences between there scum play and town play. There are technical things like someone being caught in a lie etc. but a large amount of it is gut, which kind of circles back to "would they say that as town?"

In regards to your post, why would you rather hammer than vote?

[Porochaz]

Mod, can we get a prod on EPM

Noted, thanks!

[pisskop]

@pisskop why are you suggesting a mis-lynch

I was voting, but I unvoted to consider the full breadth of zekrom's situation. Im still content with the idea of lynching him.

[bazinga]

Every time he fails to either answer me or mollies questions I am sure he is scum. Their is a difference between a newbie not knowing what he is doing and what zekrom is doing. A newbie not knowing what he is doing will A. ask more questions, B. Clam up and eventually replace or C. give a few non commital reads and then panic when people question them further.

What zekrom is doing is failing to engage with anyone, I mean the questions that have been asked of him are me asking for his thoughts. An oh so generic and easy question to answer in almost any way he chooses and a question by mollie asking if he had finished double checking the thing he said he was, all she wanted there was engagement. There is a complete lack of getting involved here, so much so that he is actively avoiding it. The most he has done is ask me what my point was when I quoted a post of his early on in the game, I replied and I wasn't expecting some sort of poetic response but was expecting some sort of acknowledgement.

There is also the questions he is asking, again if you are asking Player X, what are your thoughts? Then it is the start of a dialogue (or monologue!) between players. This has not happened, not even a "why didn't you answer my question?". It either suggests a total lack of interest or scum not knowing what he should be doing. Im going with the latter, as the former scenario would have either replaced out by now or would not be posting at all.

---

And whilst I am here, to answer the question I set myself the other day...

My reads and my thought process behind them...

The pereV and RC argument really doesn't interest me and it's mostly down to RC's playstyle. I'm not particularly happy with RC and the meta read I got from him, but at the same time, there are other issues here, but all this is mired in playstyle, and a vote on him would only be me partially voting someone I think is scum and partially me voting someone who could just be a VI.

Gooner is an arsenal fan so is always going to be inherently smug about everything until they lose against Liverpool and Man City overtake them. That said, despite our difference of opinion with game mechanics, I have a slight townread on him, and I can see him doing this but I would like a more firm stance on Zekrom.

Heh, so pirate mollie, I've explained to death, why I don't scumread you so much, but I am trying to differentiate your IRL play to your forum play. Because the problem is that I am seeing some similarities to your scum play here. Like your single mindedness, my aim over the past few days is to try and push you into engaging with people that hasn't anything to do with Elyse. Which is kinda what you were doing with Zekrom, almost. (but thats more his fault than yours) I mean I am not saying change your opinions, (I am, a bit) I just am not convinced you are actually properly scumhunting right now, if I was to commit to you being town then I wouldn't care where your vote is, I'd just see you with more varied conversation.

I can't legitimately vote someone who said I have the best hair... even though it was clearly a drunken lie. malakittens - I'm not happy with her defence on Zekrom, it felt way to easy just to dismiss it with "he's new". But again, more posts needed. mala how are you feeling about the things happening in this game?

ABR has pissed me off, I have seen him complete many a large game, but I've seen him replace out of far more.

EP is posting uncharacteristically little as well, also the whole vote thing is funny. Not to say he is scum, but again I need him to now make more firmer stances in his next post.

Deathnote, Elyse and GC have commited my all together unreliable town tell. UT hasn't but I have been enjoying his posts. Especially because I imagine he finishes a bottle of straight bourbon before he posts. The others I am null on or havent posted enough in the 19 pages so far. Marquis is a player that is overdue a look at, but I have been actively avoiding it, because of fear Im going to break my own nose baching my face against the keyboard...

THIS POST IS SUPER HAWT AND I WANT TO LICK PROZACK"S BRAIN

[pirate mollie]

Every time he fails to either answer me or mollies questions I am sure he is scum. Their is a difference between a newbie not knowing what he is doing and what zekrom is doing. A newbie not knowing what he is doing will A. ask more questions, B. Clam up and eventually replace or C. give a few non commital reads and then panic when people question them further.

What zekrom is doing is failing to engage with anyone, I mean the questions that have been asked of him are me asking for his thoughts. An oh so generic and easy question to answer in almost any way he chooses and a question by mollie asking if he had finished double checking the thing he said he was, all she wanted there was engagement. There is a complete lack of getting involved here, so much so that he is actively avoiding it. The most he has done is ask me what my point was when I quoted a post of his early on in the game, I replied and I wasn't expecting some sort of poetic response but was expecting some sort of acknowledgement.

There is also the questions he is asking, again if you are asking Player X, what are your thoughts? Then it is the start of a dialogue (or monologue!) between players. This has not happened, not even a "why didn't you answer my question?". It either suggests a total lack of interest or scum not knowing what he should be doing. Im going with the latter, as the former scenario would have either replaced out by now or would not be posting at all.

---

And whilst I am here, to answer the question I set myself the other day...

My reads and my thought process behind them...

The pereV and RC argument really doesn't interest me and it's mostly down to RC's playstyle. I'm not particularly happy with RC and the meta read I got from him, but at the same time, there are other issues here, but all this is mired in playstyle, and a vote on him would only be me partially voting someone I think is scum and partially me voting someone who could just be a VI.

Gooner is an arsenal fan so is always going to be inherently smug about everything until they lose against Liverpool and Man City overtake them. That said, despite our difference of opinion with game mechanics, I have a slight townread on him, and I can see him doing this but I would like a more firm stance on Zekrom.

Heh, so pirate mollie, I've explained to death, why I don't scumread you so much, but I am trying to differentiate your IRL play to your forum play. Because the problem is that I am seeing some similarities to your scum play here. Like your single mindedness, my aim over the past few days is to try and push you into engaging with people that hasn't anything to do with Elyse. Which is kinda what you were doing with Zekrom, almost. (but thats more his fault than yours) I mean I am not saying change your opinions, (I am, a bit) I just am not convinced you are actually properly scumhunting right now, if I was to commit to you being town then I wouldn't care where your vote is, I'd just see you with more varied conversation.

I can't legitimately vote someone who said I have the best hair... even though it was clearly a drunken lie. malakittens - I'm not happy with her defence on Zekrom, it felt way to easy just to dismiss it with "he's new". But again, more posts needed. mala how are you feeling about the things happening in this game?

ABR has pissed me off, I have seen him complete many a large game, but I've seen him replace out of far more.

EP is posting uncharacteristically little as well, also the whole vote thing is funny. Not to say he is scum, but again I need him to now make more firmer stances in his next post.

Deathnote, Elyse and GC have commited my all together unreliable town tell. UT hasn't but I have been enjoying his posts. Especially because I imagine he finishes a bottle of straight bourbon before he posts. The others I am null on or havent posted enough in the 19 pages so far. Marquis is a player that is overdue a look at, but I have been actively avoiding it, because of fear Im going to break my own nose baching my face against the keyboard...

THIS POST IS SUPER HAWT AND I WANT TO LICK PROZACK"S BRAIN

whoops and I had been doing so well lately...

[Green Crayons]

Hey look, I did a reread. Eyes did start glazing by page 15, so I was skimming at that point. If/when I do another reread, I'll probably review pages 15+.

@If I Wasn't Voting Tripod, I Would Vote DeathNote:

·

DeathNote's Post 60, which was his first "real" post of the game, strikes me as incoherent. He quotes three posts from Marquis, none of which have any real connection other than the fact that Marquis authored them. His characterization of Marquis's play is "weird," which when stated in the vacuum that is DeathNote's Post 60, makes no goddamn sense.

- Also in Post 60, DeathNote is incredulous that Tripod thinks Marquis is town (questioning Tripod's Marquis-is-town declaration with "HOW?!?!?!?!"), but somehow thinks Marquis is the scummier player coming out of Pages 1-2. This suggests some linkage between DeathNote and Tripod if either flips scum.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 61 -- which I admit caught my eye because Elyse's criticism of Post 61 was in the back of my mind upon reread -- is equally incoherent as Post 60, but for different reasons. Basically, instead of calling another player's string of unrelated posts as weird, he feigns ignorance about an exchange between Mollie/Elyse while asking about the exchange between Mollie/Elyse. It makes no sense.

- DeathNote's Post 109 and Post 257 conveying his inability to understand this point of criticism is unconvincing and strikes me as an evasive tactic to hope the issue just dies.
- DeathNote's Post 281 is unsatisfactory in answering Elyse's points Elyse initially raised in Post 98 and restated in Post 266. In particular, I take issue with: (1) DeathNote handwaves his lack of following up to any real degree as being sidelined by his preoccupation with Marquis, but this suggests that a player can only focus on one thing at a time. (False.) (2) DeathNote fails to explain his nonsensical "I didn't notice this thing that I'm now talking about" segue he utilizes to ask Mollie about her opinion.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 102 is bad because it justifies the incoherent Post 60 on the basis that Marquis's quoted posts don't include "the intent to scumhunt."

- On its face, this is a bad argument because Marquis's Post 34 (which was the third target of DeathNote's "weird" commentary) is actually Marquis shifting away from the purely RVS reasoning of her other two quoted posts. (Incidentally, I disagree with Marquis's Post 34 reasoning/vote, but that doesn't mean it lacks "the intent to scumhunt.") So Marquis's posts don't actually validate DeathNote's supposed reasoning.
- Getting past the fact that the argument doesn't hold up on its own terms, there's the fact that DeathNote thinks a lack of "intent to scumhunt" is a valid characterization of posts that clearly reflect the incredibly stupid but inevitable RVS -- seeing as how all of Marquis's "weird" posts were made within the first 35 posts of the game. Most RVS posts don't measure up to such a standard. It's a bad standard to employ, but DeathNote champions it without hesitation.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 103 is more bad justification of the bad Post 60. Here's the money quote: "All three of those posts that I quoted- 15, 20, and 34 had one common factor and that was him pushing mislynches, even if it was in a joking, "weird" way." NOPE.

- (1) Marquis's Post 15 is her making a nonsensical comment about Nikanor. Unclear how this is pushing a lynch of any sort.
- (2) Marquis's Post 20 is what appears to be a RVS vote in light of the reasoning (that Elyse might "power up"). Unclear how this is "pushing mislynches."
- (3) Marquis's Post 34 is actually moving away from the RVS vote mentality for reasons stated above. Super x2 unclear how this is "pushing mislynches."
- In effect, DeathNote's Post 103 conflates the phrase "pushing mislynches" with "voting another player."


-----

·

DeathNote's Post 113 perpetuates the bad justification of Post 60 by further mischaracterizing Marquis's posts. Here, it's: "No one else who has voted did it with the sarcastic tone of mislynching." Marquis never justified her Post 15, 20, or 34 as being sarcastic mislynches, even though that's exactly what DeathNote is implying here. (She did question why tman had "chosen today's mislynch" in Post 34, but that's not what DeathNote is saying in Post 113.)

- Post 113 can be summed up as "Marquis's RVS behavior is scummy because it is RVS behavior."
- DeathNote ignores the RVS stage component when he further justifies his Post 60 in Post 257.
- And then in Post 328 apparently DeathNote's reasoning is that "Not all RVS behavior is scummy, but Marquis's RVS behavior is scummy because it is excessive RVS behavior." Unclear how Marquis's three posts constitutes "excessive" RVS behavior in both the sense that how can three posts of anything be considered "excessive," and the fact that Marquis's three posts are not the unadulterated RVS behavior that DeathNote claims it to be (as discussed above).

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 411 marks where DeathNote finally "lost interest" in Marquis, though it is truly inexplicable why because he has been so adamant about his bad Post 60 logic for so long, and has not repudiated it.

[Green Crayons]

@Gooner:

VOTE: Green Crayons

I felt his vote on UT was just as bad as Zekrom's but Zekrom's the one getting all the heat for it. Best I have at the moment.

I actually checked this out since I was rereading the thread. As of the time of your Post 83, Zekrom and I were both voting Tripod, but for clearly different reasons. What made my reason "just as bad" as Zekrom's? While we're at it, you can also explain why Zekrom's justification for his Tripod vote was bad, because I now think his reason for voting Tripod was valid.

(Hint: you should also explain why you decided not to pursue another player -- not Zekrom -- who voted for Tripod for the same reason I did.)

(Double Hint: that player should be upset that you narrowed your focus to only one player, instead of asking every single person to whom the question applied. Or, at least, they should be if they want to be consistent with their early game criticisms.)

Oh I got another town read. All votes on Zekrom are bad and you should feel bad.

Slightly creepily that line has become a bit of a catchphrase on the other site where I play Mafia.

But yes the sentiment is one I definitely agree with. It's why my vote is on GC at the moment.

While we're at it, perhaps you can explain why you think "all votes on <player> are bad and you should feel bad" is a sentiment you agree with, but apparently as applied to Tripod. What makes Tripod so incredibly town in your view?

-----

@Porochaz:

Every time he fails to either answer me or mollies questions I am sure he is scum. Their is a difference between a newbie not knowing what he is doing and what zekrom is doing. A newbie not knowing what he is doing will A. ask more questions, B. Clam up and eventually replace or C. give a few non commital reads and then panic when people question them further.

What zekrom is doing is failing to engage with anyone, I mean the questions that have been asked of him are me asking for his thoughts. An oh so generic and easy question to answer in almost any way he chooses and a question by mollie asking if he had finished double checking the thing he said he was, all she wanted there was engagement. There is a complete lack of getting involved here, so much so that he is actively avoiding it. The most he has done is ask me what my point was when I quoted a post of his early on in the game, I replied and I wasn't expecting some sort of poetic response but was expecting some sort of acknowledgement.

There is also the questions he is asking, again if you are asking Player X, what are your thoughts? Then it is the start of a dialogue (or monologue!) between players. This has not happened, not even a "why didn't you answer my question?". It either suggests a total lack of interest or scum not knowing what he should be doing. Im going with the latter, as the former scenario would have either replaced out by now or would not be posting at all.

This explanation is more convincing than the general "Zekrom posts are bad" vibe I got from the other votes, but I'm still not comfortable with what amounts to a policy lynch on Day 1.

-----

@List of Comfortable Town Reads:

In no real particular order, but players who struck me as probable town:

•

Elyse

: because of her Mollie interactions, general observations, and the fact that my suspicions upon reread happened to dovetail with her own (e.g., her Post 98 criticizing DeathNote's Post 60).

•

Marquis

: because I think she and Tripod are not the same alignment (and I think Tripod is the scum), because I think overall her posts have contributed to the town, and the fact that my criticisms upon reread happened to dovetail with her own (e.g., her Post 110 criticizing DeathNote's Post 103).

•

Mollie

: because her Elyse interactions struck me as town, and her posts just have a town "feel" -- but I'm also a sucker for being duped by free-form posting as a sign of town, so that's problematic. More concerned about my town read after Porochaz's Post 456 highlighting the fact that Mollie tunnels when she's scum.

•

Porochaz

: because his characterizations of other players' play are generally spot-on in that I agree with a lot of what he says (though I try not to give too much credit to particularly obvious observations that would be difficult to disagree with), and I think his method of questioning-others-then-following-up-after-letting-it-simmer reflects a town sentiment of wanting to pursue worthwhile leads.

[Green Crayons]

And I do plan on further justifying my Tripod vote, but I want to hear back from Gooner first.

[pirate mollie]

1. Formerfish - ff is hard for me to read but there was a glimpse of vulnerability that I saw that makes me lean town. like he very clearly wasn't in fake mode it read as pretty genuine so I am leaning town.
2. PeregrineV - oddly enough his 1 post where he was like "mollie are you scum" gives him town points but then I don't understand how he could possibly think this is my scum game. my scum game is so much more sophisticated. unsure mebbe town but I need to see more.
3. Gooner - he isn't registering for me at all and I know he has posted
4. DeathNote - wth. no srsly WTH. but he did shit in f2f too so unsure
5. pisskop - dunno anybody who says I am bad and then makes retarded posts just kind of triggers the ignore button for me. and he didn't do much before that either.
6. Matias - is he still playing where did he go
7. pirate mollie - all that is awsum that is town you peeps should love me
8. OhGodMyLife - he posted something and then I forgot about it. I don't even remember what is was about. the lurking seems mebbe scummy
9. Untrod Tripot - unsure mebbe town? I don't like the wanting to lynch whoever is lynchable and he is acting like this game has been going on forever when it hasn't and typing this out talks me out of my townread on him. unsure. I liked the 1 post cos I felt the same way about zekrom but body of work he is not holding up.
10. Malakittens - leaning town mebbe?
11. Elyse - SCUM! I hate it when I have to sit on a scum read and wait for every1 else to catch up. anybody who thinks this is elyse's town game needs to have their head examined she is pretty good.
12. Marquis - leaning town for clownfuckery which is kind of town for marquis
13. Nikanor - SCUM! his defense of elyse and then his disappearance along with his "prozack is scum!" is pretty funny. he is a smooth talker so it will probably take forever for you people to lynch him but I think he is scum with elyse.
14. Ythan - wow didn't he do this at the meet. ythan if you are town will you plz send a strong flare and lets go to your car and figure some shit out okay? and then lets be in thread masons. this offer also has an expiration date.
15. Porochaz - TOOOWNNNNN!!! don't touch him don't even look at him funny or I will eat you
16. sthar8 - it makes me sad that once again it seems like star drew scum.
17. evilpacman18 - is he playing?
18. RadiantCowbells - no clue. I get this feeling like I have played with them before but they did not leave that strong of an impression. oddly with their timing mebbe town.
19. zekrom25 - jesus christ what do I need to do, send a handwritten invitation? newb, lynch fodder, who the fuck knows when he isn't posting or responding. he goes into the scum pile.
20. tman2nd- I have no words. NO WORDS
21. Green Canyons - oddly, leaning town? he actually reminds of home, like home as in not tr but ratskep. ratskep was the very first site I played mafia on.

so in order of things I think prozack is a good person to rally around, elyse, nika, zekrom, deathy, tman, star feel the scummiest the rest I would like to get closer to. mala if you are town I need your help plz don't be stubborn.

eta: oh hai awsum xposting with crayon person!

[pirate mollie]

vote mollie

She is possibly scum.

vote elyse who is probably scum.

Yoo hoo! Mollie! Please respond to post 45!

Also how has no one else commented on DeathNote's terrible entrance into the game???

59 is RVS. Fine. 60 is him calling Marquis weird and subsequently voting him. He also expresses disbelief at someone calling Marquis town. Weird and scum are not synonymous or else mollie would be scum every game.

Then in 61 he asks mollie if I'm scum, saying he "got caught up with the weirdness and didn't notice my exchange with her". First, you DID notice my exchange with mollie if you are asking her about. Second, the game is three pages long. Reread it and decide if I am scum for yourself.

mollie might also be scum if she's serious about me being scum but it's too soon to tell.

@RC
Please tell me you've moved on from "why me fry me" and have another reason to explain why I'm scum. If you are still holding on to that reason I want you to explain how that's scummy rather than regurgitate a common myth that you implanted into your brain.

Also Marquis is town.

crayon thing this post looks good on its own but body of work? she isn't measuring up. her vote is on me but she isn't doing anything to firm up the read or doing a lot to push her nonexistent case.

[Untrod Tripod]

mollie if you were doing a reread you would know I said the game went on too many pages, not that it was taking too long. but if you're trying to justify a shitty vote with some blatant misrep then you're right on target

[bazinga]

erm, I am not voting you atm? should I be?

[pirate mollie]

erm, I am not voting you atm? should I be?

[Untrod Tripod]

I've been watching you try to talk yourself into scumreading me and it's bad and dumb

[Elyse]

Mollie I'm asking you questions but you're ignoring me again

[pirate mollie]

I've been watching you try to talk yourself into scumreading me and it's bad and dumb

there are like 6 people ahead of you mebbe more why are you getting your panties in a twist?

Mollie I'm asking you questions but you're ignoring me again

wat questions